Belkin Officially Begins Shipping Thunderbolt Express Dock

[fortysomegeek]

eSATA - I can only find hubs at around $180 LaCie

EDIT: I priced the LaCie hub because I specifically was looking at TB to eSATA
For a total of $316.

They (Belkin) took the eSATA out of this final model.
So subtract your $180.

Also, why get a Thunderbolt-eSATA when USB 3.0-eSATA performs just as well.
You are not gonna top 250 MB/sec with eSATA unless it is one of those weird eSATA cards with SATA III controllers and your RAID box has one of those exotic SATA III inputs. 90% of the eSATA enclosures/RAIDs still do SATA I/II ar 3.0 Gbp/s. I benched a lot of eSATA enclosures and good luck getting over 200 MB/sec which USB 3.0 supports.

Also, I don't think the LaCie does port multiplication so I dont see the advantage in that eSATA hub whatsoever. A

USB 3.0 eSATA dongle is $20.

 

[rocknblogger]

They (Belkin) took the eSATA out of this final model.
So subtract your $180.

Also, why get a Thunderbolt-eSATA when USB 3.0-eSATA performs just as well.
You are not gonna top 250 MB/sec with eSATA unless it is one of those weird eSATA cards with SATA III controllers and your RAID box has one of those exotic SATA III inputs. 90% of the eSATA enclosures/RAIDs still do SATA I/II ar 3.0 Gbp/s. I benched a lot of eSATA enclosures and good luck getting over 200 MB/sec which USB 3.0 supports.

Also, I don't think the LaCie does port multiplication so I dont see the advantage in that eSATA hub whatsoever. A

USB 3.0 eSATA dongle is $20.

I believe the LaCie is SATA III and you can daisy chain both, eSATA and Thunderbolt so it still adds versatility.

I didn't however realize that Belkin removed the eSATA port. With that in mind then maybe this is a bit overpriced. But you still have to take design and convenience into account. I don't like clutter on my desk and I really dislike a bunch of cables running all over the place.

I guess it comes down to how much value one places on the all in one convenience. I'm pretty sure that I will more than likely buy one of these. I may look at the Sonnet but that one is even more expensive and I'm not crazy about the design.

The eSATA thing is a bummer

 

[fortysomegeek]

I guess it comes down to how much value one places on the all in one convenience. I'm pretty sure that I will more than likely buy one of these. I may look at the Sonnet but that one is even more expensive and I'm not crazy about the design.

The eSATA thing is a bummer

I agree with you on the clutter. That is why I am getting a CalDigit model. It has the right mix of ports I need and $100 cheaper.

 

[rmwebs]

Henge looks good, but what do you do when the next MBP you buy has a slightly different form factor?

Sell the dock and get a new one. If you're buying a new MBP every year, you can afford to take a hit on the dock if you really need it.

 

[theluggage]

Oh, I didn't realize the Mac Pro had Thunderbolt (or USB 3.0, 'though I have that with a CalDigit PCIe). However Thunderbolt can't be added with a PCIe card. Every Apple Mac product, from MacBook Pro's to the Mac Mini has Thunderbolt, but not the - dated - $2499+ Mac Pro. That is ironic.

Why do you want Thunderbolt on a Mac Pro?

The point of TB on a laptop/small-form-factor/all-in-one is that it gives you some of the expandability of a full-size PC.

The Mac Pro already has the expandability of a full-size PC.

As you say - want USB3? - drop in a relatively cheap USB3 PCIe card. Want xtra storage? There are 3 HD bays & you can easily add an eSATA card.

 

[Red Fuji]

NO SD CARD READER; what a waste of desk space and a power jack ! and $$$

 

[carestudio]

I pretty much settled on Caldigit's Thunderbolt station and put myself in the waiting list. But nice to see Belkin finally ships the products though cheaper could be better

 

[CaptHenryMorgan]

Ordered

 

[MLMcMillion]

Henge looks good, but what do you do when the next MBP you buy has a slightly different form factor?

You wait almost a year and hope they get an update out in time. Those guys aren't exactly speedy about getting products out.

 

[InuNacho]

I think you're correct. A "Thunderbolt Splitter" just isn't really possible.

The way to attach more than one device to a Thunderbolt port is to daisy chain them. As the chips get cheaper we will seek ore and more devices that support daisy chaining.

I had asked almost a year and a half ago for a "Thunderbolt Splitter" to run a Blackmagic Intensity and a MDP monitor at the same time. In the end I gave up and just bought an 09 Pro.

 

[dyn]

I know what you are trying to say but my point was that it was only 1 part of the story just like what the complainers were aiming at. A product needs to be priced in such a way it actually sells without costing the manufacturer/seller money. They need to make some profit (too much profit can lead to problems as well since you have to pay taxes; in some situations the amount of tax puts you into debt).

The other very important thing I wanted to point out: people have little to no understanding of the product itself. They don't know the technology in it. In some cases that's what the manufacturer wants. Apple is a good example of that: they just want you to use their products and not worry about the technical aspect. This also leads to little understanding of pricing. Thunderbolt devices are 10 Gbit devices. If you know how much other 10Gbit technology costs you'd know Thunderbolt is actually cheap. In this case they compare it to other docks that have been there for years now. Those docks costs less. Instead of whining about these people complaining about the much higher costs it's better to start explaining them why the costs are higher. Make them understand.

The foolish part comes from people who know the economics but do not understand how customers think and what their knowledge is. Pricing is explainable but manufacturers, economics, etc. hardly explain it. You can't expect people to know everything about the product (which is reflected in many laws of many countries). People who have knowledge also have the responsibility of sharing that knowledge!

To the people complaining about the amount of usb ports...let's not forget that by using Thunderbolt you can still use the usb ports on the Mac itself. You don't get 3 usb ports, you get three additional usb ports. The only port on the Mac that is taken up is the Thunderbolt port that connects the dock.

 

[Stetrain]

I had asked almost a year and a half ago for a "Thunderbolt Splitter" to run a Blackmagic Intensity and a MDP monitor at the same time. In the end I gave up and just bought an 09 Pro.

What would be possible is a device which has two Thunderbolt ports for daisy chaining in addition to a Mini-Displayport (non-Thunderbolt) video output.

I don't know though if there's enough of a market for such a device, especially now that the retina MBPs and the iMacs come with two Thunderbolt ports.

 

[tmanto02]

All I want is a simple Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 adapter similar to Apples gigabit Ethernet and fw800 adapters so I can have at least 1 USB 3.0 port on my 2011 Mac Mini!

 

[tmanto02]

According to the Belkin website it's USB 3.0 ports only run at half the regular speed of USB 3.0!!!! WTF!

One cable output provides instant access to 8 ports
1 Gigabit Ethernet port
1 FireWire 800 port
1 Thunderbolt port
1 3.5mm Headphone Output Jack
1 3.5mm Audio Input Jack
3 USB 3.0 ports*
Daisy-chaining ability of up to 5 additional Thunderbolt devices
Includes Cable-management channel.
* USB 3.0 ports data transfer at 2.5Gbps max

 

[fortysomegeek]

All I want is a simple Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 adapter similar to Apples gigabit Ethernet and fw800 adapters so I can have at least 1 USB 3.0 port on my 2011 Mac Mini!

You can probably do that with a $130 Thunderbolt > Expresscard > expresscard to USB 3.0 card

Expresscard-Thunderbolt Adapter:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=860811&Q=&is=REG&A=details

Expresscard to USB 3:
http://www.amazon.com/GMYLE®-ExpressCard-34mm-Adapter-Dual/dp/B0045BLP1S

 

[Santabean2000]

You realize that displays comparable to Apple's are over $600 easily, if not even more expensive than Apple's. So, that plus $300 for a TB dock is basically the same as just buying an ACD, pricewise.

But that's the point - I don't need a 27" display. I've priced up a Dell 16:10 IPS at about $280 + dock should come in at $500 or there abouts.

 

[rocknblogger]

I agree with you on the clutter. That is why I am getting a CalDigit model. It has the right mix of ports I need and $100 cheaper.

The one problem with the CalDigit is that it has neither a FireWire nor eSATA.

----------

According to the Belkin website it's USB 3.0 ports only run at half the regular speed of USB 3.0!!!! WTF!

One cable output provides instant access to 8 ports
1 Gigabit Ethernet port
1 FireWire 800 port
1 Thunderbolt port
1 3.5mm Headphone Output Jack
1 3.5mm Audio Input Jack
3 USB 3.0 ports*
Daisy-chaining ability of up to 5 additional Thunderbolt devices
Includes Cable-management channel.
* USB 3.0 ports data transfer at 2.5Gbps max

If that's the case, then it's a no go and it is overpriced and fundamentally flawed.

 

[kd5jos]

10 Gbps limit

How this seems to have been engineered...

One cable output provides instant access to 8 ports
1 Gigabit Ethernet port
1 FireWire 800 port
1 Thunderbolt port
1 3.5mm Headphone Output Jack
1 3.5mm Audio Input Jack
3 USB 3.0 ports*
Daisy-chaining ability of up to 5 additional Thunderbolt devices
Includes Cable-management channel.
* USB 3.0 ports data transfer at 2.5Gbps max

1 Gb Ethernet port at full speed
.8 Gb Firewire port at full speed
3 x 2.5 Gb 3 USB 3 ports, half speed each
9.3 Gb plus 700 Mb for audio use
Total is 10 Gb.

Even if the USB 3 ports could go full speed, two in use would saturate the link. Not stating this is an excuse for a $300 price tag. At least half of the cost of the device seems to be tied up in paying for the connectors.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I'm looking at the still shot of the YouTube video in the article and... is it just me or is one of the Thunderbolt ports connected to itself through some sort of loop?

 

[3282868]

Why do you want Thunderbolt on a Mac Pro?

The point of TB on a laptop/small-form-factor/all-in-one is that it gives you some of the expandability of a full-size PC.

The Mac Pro already has the expandability of a full-size PC.

As you say - want USB3? - drop in a relatively cheap USB3 PCIe card. Want xtra storage? There are 3 HD bays & you can easily add an eSATA card.

It's the fastest throughput, would allow for running one bi-directional cable to a workstation for displays, HID's, etc. thus allowing the system to be stored in a ventilated closet/etc. Why not is the important question? You're the first individual I've encountered among many that has raised such points. The Mac Pro lacks current tech hardware. USB 2, SATA II, FireWire 800. "Light Peak" aka "Thunderbolt" was developed ON a Mac Pro. The point is not expandability, put to [eventually] replace FireWire, USB 3.0, etc as the primary connection. Thunderbolt, eventually, will allow for the fastest connections between external devices. Once the market grows, a Mac Pro system would need a few Thunderbolt ports to connect externals as blazing fast speeds. In server conditions, in situations with film editors such as myself, the speed combined with the processor power provided by Mac Pro Xeon systems would blow anything Apple currently has out of the water.

It would also cut down on form factor by replacing FireWire 400/800 and other hardware that Thunderbolt speeds kill.

Imagine:

A form factor the size of the ill fated cube, 2-3 internal SATA III bays, 2-3 PCIe slots, USB 3.0, Xeon or Core i7 processors, RAM, and either an external graphics box or PCIe card. Smaller form, Thunderbolt speeds, bidirectional cable to displays, HID's, and the ability to add external HDD's much easier than FireWire or USB via daisy chaining and faster speeds.

So yes, there are many reasons why Thunderbolt would be beneficial to the Mac Pro. A lot of excellent reasons. Ironic as it was developed with Sony, Intel and Apple on tower systems for professionals due to speed and hardware enhancements. The next Mac Pro will certainly have it and benefit greatly from it.

 

[kd5jos]

Definitely agreed on it being too expensive; the panel with the ports has a lot of under-utilised space that just seems wasted, I can't believe they couldn't squeeze in at least double the number of USB ports.

Let's do some math...
10Gb-
1Gb for ethernet
____
9Gb-
.8 Gb for Firewire
____
8.2-
.7 Gb for audio
____
7.5 Gb left

6 USB 3 ports = 30 Gbps and you have 7.5 Gbps left

How much are 1.25 Gbps USB 3 ports worth to you? That's what, triple USB 2 speed?

Now, I KNOW you're going to say, "but what if all I use is USB 3.0?"

First, I already own Firewire 800 devices. So that WILL be used.
Second, I'd get this to handle networking for me. The WILL be used.
Third, might as well hook up the speakers and a mike since it's permanently on the desk. That WILL be used.
Last, I have the USB ports. Do I want 6 1.25Gbps USB 3 ports or 3 2.5 Gbps ports? Hmm, I do like the speed, and 2.5 Gbps is faster than most drives I'd attach (1.6Gbps). I don't know, maybe a LITTLE slack is in order? Their math sure SEEMS to add up...

 

[Joseph Farrugia]

Yes, you just need to be running the recommend version of OS X

Not really no; that is an assumption on your part, proven by the fact that Belkin themselves (or was it CalDigit?) have already offered USB3 drivers for their USB3 expansion cards on 2011 (& previous) macs running 10.6.

 

[iSayuSay]

Why do you want Thunderbolt on a Mac Pro?

The point of TB on a laptop/small-form-factor/all-in-one is that it gives you some of the expandability of a full-size PC.

The Mac Pro already has the expandability of a full-size PC.

As you say - want USB3? - drop in a relatively cheap USB3 PCIe card. Want xtra storage? There are 3 HD bays & you can easily add an eSATA card.

What? MacPro is not an Apple product so it can't have the same feature?
What's with the hate here?

SO Apple MacPro is not eligible to use Apple Thunderbolt Display?

 

[theluggage]

Why not is the important question?

Well, for one thing, major USP for the Pro is the ability to fit a range of specialist graphics cards, so they'd need a range of graphics cards that supported Thunderbolt (not sure how that works - I presume that either the thunderbolt controller would have to be on the card, or the card would need an internal DisplayPort output with a flying lead to the TB controller on the motherboard).

It would also cut down on form factor by replacing FireWire 400/800 and other hardware that Thunderbolt speeds kill.

A lot of Mac Pro users will also want those legacy ports - for example, some video shops use 500G external FireWire drives like floppy discs, there are FireWire audio devices.

Secondly, a lot of the form factor is to do with having internal PCIe slots and internal SATA hard drive bays. One thing Thunderbolt doesn't kill is 'proper' PCIe and SATA, and the convenience/neatness of having everything installed inside the PC.

A form factor the size of the ill fated cube, 2-3 internal SATA III bays, 2-3 PCIe slots, USB 3.0, Xeon or Core i7 processors,

No, that's not the form factor of a Mac Cube - that's the form factor of the TARDIS. I suggest that you get a couple of 2TB 3.5" HDs, a pair of full-length, high-end graphics cards and a ruler and c.f. the dimensions of a Mac Cube. (Don't forget the space for a pair of Xeons and the requisite cooling).

RAM, and either an external graphics box or PCIe card.

...which would have lower bandwidth than an internal 16-lane PCIe bus.

bidirectional cable to displays

...bidirectional cable to the 1 (one) Thunderbolt display currently available, which, while very nice, is really a 'pro-sumer' device c.f. the huge range of specialist graphics pro displays that can connect to a Mac Pro.

Sniping aside - I wouldn't be surprised if the "Mac Mini Pro" concept does emerge - the appeal of Thunderbolt is that it can give small-form-factor systems much (but not all) of the expandability of a full-size PC, and as the power of SFF devices increases, the number of people who actually need a "Mac Pro"-like machine is drastically reducing, so Apple would probably shift far more "Mini Pros" than they would Pros. However, I guarantee a great wailing and gnashing of teeth from current "Pro" customers if they do.

Its not that Thunderbolt wouldn't be useful at all on a Mac Pro - its just not a priority when the Pro already has cheaper/faster ways of achieving the same effect.

 

[Bear]

Yes, you just need to be running the recommend version of OS X

Not really no; that is an assumption on your part, proven by the fact that Belkin themselves (or was it CalDigit?) have already offered USB3 drivers for their USB3 expansion cards on 2011 (& previous) macs running 10.6.

So if there are drivers, my assumption becomes very valid. Belkin will say what versions of OS X it will work with and if there is an exception, they will note that. However, right now Belkin doesn't give an exception for USB 3.0 support.