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So if there are drivers, my assumption becomes very valid. Belkin will say what versions of OS X it will work with and if there is an exception, they will note that. However, right now Belkin doesn't give an exception for USB 3.0 support.

been using caldigit's usb 3.0 cards for years with great success and support from their team is great too. if they can make the driver and support for pcie card, i see no problem to do the same trick on thunderbolt dock. the docking system can provide even better speed according to the comments from the show
http://www.thunderbolt4mac.com/caldigit/thunderbolt-station/index.asp?C=1
 
So if there are drivers, my assumption becomes very valid. Belkin will say what versions of OS X it will work with and if there is an exception, they will note that. However, right now Belkin doesn't give an exception for USB 3.0 support.

Your assumption was "you just need to be running the recommend version of OS X"; it is invalid because you do not need to be running the recommended OS;
even more invalid when you consider your use of the word "just" which misleadingly assumes that that is the only requirement "possible", not just "needed".

I'm replying simply for clarity & better articulation of facts available to us at the moment, please do share if you have more info.
 
I'm looking at the still shot of the YouTube video in the article and... is it just me or is one of the Thunderbolt ports connected to itself through some sort of loop?
There are 2 TB ports on the backside of the dock. There is also a tunnel that runs from the back to the front. In this tunnel you put the TB cable hooked up to 1 of the two TB ports on the back of the dock and the cable from your power adapter. It's meant for cable management of the two cables you put in the Mac.

The video said you could connect a router... what router uses thunderbolt?
Any that is hooked up to the network port on the dock ;)
 
This is a cool device for those which don't already have USB 3. But for the rest of us it's going to be torn to shreds by cheap USB 3.0 docking stations. Hell if you don't need video, grab a USB3 hub with ethernet and a USB sound card and you've got most of the functionality for ~$90 (barring firewire & displayport).

It looks the goods though.
 
A cheap IPS monitor and this thing velcro'd to the back add up to about the same $.

But that cheap IPS will have multiple inputs. Glue this Belkin to its back and it also has USB 3.0 ports albeith at half speed while $999 Apple Thunderbolt Display gets you three slow USB ports.

Or if I want something with more dignity. Dell Ultrasharp U2713 is 1440p, has USB 3.0 hub built in. Along with DisplayPort, DVI and HDMI so I can plug in multiple PC/Mac at once. All for $700 with 3 years warranty included.
 
6 USB 3 ports = 30 Gbps and you have 7.5 Gbps left
You're assuming that everyone would be using all the ports on the Thunderbolt hub, and not just using them but fully utilising them at once, which I don't think is a sound assumption to make.

If someone wants to plug six full-speed USB 3 devices then yes, they're going to overload the Thunderbolt bandwidth, but that's their own fault. If I'm just plugging in a mouse, keyboard, maybe a backup drive, scanner, printer etc. then I need the quantity of ports, but I'm unlikely to eat through 10gbps of bandwidth.

Because everyone wants two or three hubs...
Sure, one hub is neater, but one good UBS 3 hub and a good Firewire 800 hub will set you back around a third of the price of this particular all-in-one hub. I understand that Thunderbolt is a small market right now and has complexities, but even accounting that high premium what you get is very limited in how you can realistically use it; if you have more than two Firewire 800 devices then it's no good, if you have more than 3 USB (1, 2 or 3) devices then it's no good, etc., what you get for each interface is pretty restrictive.

For $300 I would have expected a bit more freedom in how I could use it, and more of a polished layout of the ports at the very least.
 
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How this seems to have been engineered...

One cable output provides instant access to 8 ports
1 Gigabit Ethernet port
1 FireWire 800 port
1 Thunderbolt port
1 3.5mm Headphone Output Jack
1 3.5mm Audio Input Jack
3 USB 3.0 ports*
Daisy-chaining ability of up to 5 additional Thunderbolt devices
Includes Cable-management channel.
* USB 3.0 ports data transfer at 2.5Gbps max

1 Gb Ethernet port at full speed
.8 Gb Firewire port at full speed
3 x 2.5 Gb 3 USB 3 ports, half speed each
9.3 Gb plus 700 Mb for audio use
Total is 10 Gb.

Even if the USB 3 ports could go full speed, two in use would saturate the link. Not stating this is an excuse for a $300 price tag. At least half of the cost of the device seems to be tied up in paying for the connectors.

That's not quite how it works though.

If you ignore the DisplayPort aspect, a Thunderbolt controller acts like a hypothetical Ethernet router with 4 downstream ports operating at 4 Gbit/s and one 10 Gbit/s upstream port. Devices connected to the downstream ports can operate at the full 4 Gbit/s, but may not be able to do so 100% of the time if the uplink is maxed out. In general, you can oversubscribe the hell out of that single uplink, and, with efficient switching, the end user will rarely ever notice.

To explain the analogy in more detail, the Thunderbolt controller in question here has connections for 4 PCIe 2.0 lanes on the back side and 4 Thunderbolt channels (2 per port) on the front side. Internally, the PCIe lanes are connected to a PCIe switch, hooked to a Thunderbolt protocol adapter, connected to a Thunderbolt switch. PCIe 2.0 nominally operates at 5 Gbit/s, however it uses 8b/10b encoding (10 bits are sent for every byte of actual data), which means 4 Gbit/s in reality, whereas Thunderbolt channels actually do provide 10 Gbit/s to the upper layers. Although Thunderbolt ports and cables are dual channel, one of them, at least in Apple's implementations, appears to be reserved for DisplayPort traffic.

I'd wager the Belkin dock uses 3 or 4 single-lane PCIe devices connected to the Thunderbolt controller to provide the bulk of its functionality: one 4-port USB 3.0 host controller (or two 2-port controllers), a single-port FireWire 800 host controller, and a single-port GbE controller. The audio is provided by a USB connected audio device which uses one of the 4 USB ports internally. The FireWire and GbE controllers are pretty straightforward, but the USB solution is worth discussing because of the note about it only operating at 2.5 Gbit/s.

This is a pretty blatant indication that the USB 3.0 controller is only able to connect to the Thunderbolt controller at PCIe Gen 1 speeds. Mind you, all of the discrete USB 3.0 host controllers that have made it into production thus far, regardless of whether they support 1, 2 or 4 ports, only have connections for a single PCIe lane on the back side. Since PCIe 2.0 and USB 3.0 are both 5 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding (i.e. 4 Gbit/s) interfaces, this works out quite well and individual ports are not limited. If you're aggressively using more than one port of a multi-port controller, well, YMMV. On some of the early silicon, however, that single PCIe lane was only Gen 1, or 2.5 Gbit/s.

Unless Belkin got one hell of a deal on some chips that have been lying around for a couple years, it would really surprise me if they didn't use a more modern 2 or 4-port solution. My money was on the xHCI 1.0 compliant Fresco Logic FL1100, which I believe is supported natively under Mac OS X 10.8.2 and later, and made an appearance on an ODM Thunderbolt docking solution from Pegatron at Computex last June.

We'll have to wait for a teardown, but either the USB 3.0 host controller is at fault here, or there's an issue with a PCIe switch not being able to negotiate a Gen 2 link on the port it's connected to. Both the GbE and FireWire controllers are likely Gen 1 devices, since that's more than enough bandwidth for them. I wonder if the Thunderbolt controller's integrated PCIe switch can't handle different rates on each of its ports.
 
Your assumption was "you just need to be running the recommend version of OS X"; it is invalid because you do not need to be running the recommended OS;
even more invalid when you consider your use of the word "just" which misleadingly assumes that that is the only requirement "possible", not just "needed".

I'm replying simply for clarity & better articulation of facts available to us at the moment, please do share if you have more info.

I have been considering either the CalDigit or Sonnet dock, and noticed both of them (and the Matrox) specify OS X 10.8.x. And yes, it was CalDigit who put out drivers for USB 3.0 for their ExpressCard, for 10.6.x and 10.7.x. I have one of those cards.

I emailed both Sonnet and CalDigit with a query on this (but not Belkin, so this may not be true for the Belkin). I mentioned I was running 10.7.5. Both replies said the same thing. Here is CalDigit's.

"Dear customer,

The Thunderbolt stations is using the OS built-in drivers, which the OSX
10.8 holds some of the required drivers for the Thunderbolt station.

If these drivers become available on the 10.7.6, then the thunderbolt
station will be available for the OSX 10.7 as well.

Best regards,

CalDigit - Support"
 
A USB 3.0 eSATA dongle is $20.
If you'd care about the health of your storage, can you monitor S.M.A.R.T. with that dongle?

If they handle usb4 specs well (like they didn't with usb3, which caused "the blu-ray effect"), it will be interesting when Apple ditches TB. After all Apple has been the company, who wants the most to reduce the amount of ports.
Surely they won't keep TB as long as FW, but will we see TB dongles connecting the 2015 MBP's usb4 port?

(Yep, usb4 won't be as hi-tec than TB, but when 99,9% users won't notice that and simple hub with 4-8 ports that covers all normal uses will be less than $50...)
 
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Got it set up last night. Ethernet, minidisplayport to tv via adapter, two external USB 3 drives connected to the dock via thunderbolt cable to mb air 11".

Surfed and streamed for several hours last night everyrhings great and all of sudden no Internet connection. I unplugged my thunderbolt cable from the air and voila, it works.

So tonight after work I plug in to the dock about 8 and everything's perfect until about ten after midnight when the Internet connection goes away again. I unplug and replug the Ethernet cable, no change. I unplug and replug the thunderbolt cable to the air and the Internet connection is back.

Everything else seems fine. I have access to the external drives and the the picture is getting to the tv fine. There just seems to be something weird going on with the Ethernet connection.

I really hope it's just a fluke but I'm a little worried.
 
If you'd care about the health of your storage, can you monitor S.M.A.R.T. with that dongle?

Unlikely, but who cares? A device based on a decent SATA 6Gb/s to USB 3.0 bridge chip that supports UASP trumps eSATA on pretty much every other metric.

If they handle usb4 specs well (like they didn't with usb3, which caused "the blu-ray effect"), it will be interesting when Apple ditches TB. After all Apple has been the company, who wants the most to reduce the amount of ports.
Surely they won't keep TB as long as FW, but will we see TB dongles connecting the 2015 MBP's usb4 port?

(Yep, usb4 won't be as hi-tec than TB, but when 99,9% users won't notice that and simple hub with 4-8 ports that covers all normal uses will be less than $50...)

USB 4.0 is not on any sort of near-term horizon. The USB 3.0 Promoter Group recently announced a specification update to add a 10Gbps SuperSpeed USB capability to the USB 3.0 Specification. According to this document, the 1.0 draft of this update will be available in the Q3 2013 timeframe, which is actually well ahead of what was initially announced. The other good news is that in addition to the nominal bitrate doubling, a more efficient encoding scheme will be used. A lot may happen between now and 2015, but it would be a miracle if Intel releases an updated xHCI spec and a chipset that integrates 10 Gbit/s SuperSpeed USB by then. This makes it highly unlikely that we'll see a Mac with this capability by 2015.

For historical perspective:

USB 1.1 spec released Q3 1998, integrated by Intel Q2 1999
USB 2.0 spec released Q2 2000, integrated by Intel Q2 2002
USB 3.0 spec released Q4 2008, xHCI 1.0 released Q2 2010, integrated by Intel Q2 2012
USB 3.0 update released Q3 2013, integrated by Intel...

Granted, the xHCI was designed to be eXtensible, so this update may take less time to roll out, but all the stars would have to align for Apple to ship a product including it just two years from now. However, in the first half of 2014, Intel will be ramping production of Falcon Ridge Thunderbolt controllers, which will provide a full 20 Gbit/s, full-duplex link and DisplayPort 1.2 with HBR2 and MST capabilities. USB 3.0 crushes Thunderbolt on price/performance for most consumer applications, however, Thunderbolt can do things that USB simply cannot. As long as USB is not a true digital display interface, and DisplayPort is still relevant, Apple will most likely include a DP port, and it might as well also be a Thunderbolt port.

You should know by now, Apple strives to cater to the 1%.

Got it set up last night. Ethernet, minidisplayport to tv via adapter, two external USB 3 drives connected to the dock via thunderbolt cable to mb air 11".

Surfed and streamed for several hours last night everyrhings great and all of sudden no Internet connection. I unplugged my thunderbolt cable from the air and voila, it works.

So tonight after work I plug in to the dock about 8 and everything's perfect until about ten after midnight when the Internet connection goes away again. I unplug and replug the Ethernet cable, no change. I unplug and replug the thunderbolt cable to the air and the Internet connection is back.

Everything else seems fine. I have access to the external drives and the the picture is getting to the tv fine. There just seems to be something weird going on with the Ethernet connection.

I really hope it's just a fluke but I'm a little worried.

Hmmm... That's not good. Was it a wake from sleep issue, or did the Ethernet connection just crap out as you were using the MBA?
 
****. Happened again tonight.

Okay, I left the air plugged in today all day while I was at work. It was asleep for ~16 hours. Everything is working and connected properly at 7pm when I get home, woohoo.

So I surf off and on for a few hours with no problems, then go down stairs around 11:45pm to do some laundry and have a snack. When I return to the computer around 1am, it wakes up and I get picture on the tv but there's a disk not ejected properly message. I can't comunicate with either external disk (one doesn't show up at all, the other shows but I can't open it), and I have no internet connection. I unplugged the thunderbolt cable from the air, re-plugged and everything comes back.


Hmmm... That's not good. Was it a wake from sleep issue, or did the Ethernet connection just crap out as you were using the MBA?

Friday night it crapped out right in the middle of streaming a video right at midnight

Saturday night it crapped out while I was streaming the ppv fight right at midnight

Tonight it woke from sleep messed up. But whatever went wrong, went wrong between 11:45pm and 1am.


What the **** is that all about? At midnight three nights in a row the dock stops functioning properly? How the hell can that be?
 
And it just happened again. Just the internet going away. Unplugged and replugged the thunderbolt cable and it comes back. I guess this thing's going back to Belkin. Crap.

Just happened again. I lost internet and comunication with the external drives.

This time I left everything plugged in and re-started the mba. After reboot, everything works again.
 
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And it just happened again. Just the internet going away. Unplugged and replugged the thunderbolt cable and it comes back. I guess this thing's going back to Belkin. Crap.

Just happened again. I lost internet and comunication with the external drives.

This time I left everything plugged in and re-started the mba. After reboot, everything works again.


could it be overheating dock?
 
Interesting. What does the log in Console say? Maybe you'll find something interesting there.
 
Interesting. What does the log in Console say? Maybe you'll find something interesting there.

Opened it but I don't really know what I'm looking for/at. Around the time it went out last night 2amish theres:

2:03am mdworker: unable to talk to lsboxd

2:03am kernel: sandbox: sandboxd (588) deny mach-lookup com.apple.coresymbolicationd

2:03 sandboxd ([587]) mdworker (587) deny mach-lookup com.apple.ls.boxd

2:04am kernel: ethernet (applebcm5701ethernet):link down on en4 (offline)


Apparently It went down overnight as well I woke to still another disk ejection error and one of the disks not showing up.
 
The sandbox messages can be ignored for this issue, that's something else. I think the best is to focus on the network card. The last line you pasted is worth looking into. Try searching for "ethernet" and "thunderbolt".
 
And it just happened again. Just the internet going away. Unplugged and replugged the thunderbolt cable and it comes back. I guess this thing's going back to Belkin. Crap.

Just happened again. I lost internet and comunication with the external drives.

This time I left everything plugged in and re-started the mba. After reboot, everything works again.

That sucks. If I had to hazard a guess, the Ethernet problem may be related to a failure while renewing the DHCP lease for the controller in the dock. If setting a static IP for it eliminates the issue, that would be a good bet. Obviously it should just work though.

The drive issue seems like typical USB 3.0 controller/hub failure to enter/exit U3 power state gracefully. I assume you're running Mac OS X 10.8.3 with all relevant EFI/SMC/firmware updates installed?

More than 24 hours now with no additional problems:confused:

Glad to hear there are no additional problems, but the original ones sound annoying enough.
 
I'm on 10.8.3 and everything else is up to date.

I've sent an as yet unanswered email to belkin support to see what they make of it.

As of right now, its still working properly.
 
That sucks. If I had to hazard a guess, the Ethernet problem may be related to a failure while renewing the DHCP lease for the controller in the dock. If setting a static IP for it eliminates the issue, that would be a good bet. Obviously it should just work though.

The drive issue seems like typical USB 3.0 controller/hub failure to enter/exit U3 power state gracefully. I assume you're running Mac OS X 10.8.3 with all relevant EFI/SMC/firmware updates installed?



Glad to hear there are no additional problems, but the original ones sound annoying enough.

It should not be related to DHCP since he mentioned that after replugging Thunderbolt cable, everything worked fine. That means it must be something wrong with the dock itself, perhaps the ethernet controller or thunderbolt controller or his own computer?
 
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