Benchmarks Suggest New iPad Pro's A12Z Chip is Nearly Identical to A12X in 2018 iPad Pro

[soyazul]

Is seems to me that the focus is on the display, its a great display! And they will use the base of the next A14 chip from the 2020 iPhones, and put an A14X on the first ARM Mac...

 

[Abazigal]

If only 1/2 of 1% of the users has experienced this (a made-up number by me for sure, but it's a "small percentage", and it very well could be higher), what do you say to those 57,000 customers who bought a $1200 piece of equipment that they perceive as faulty? They don't matter?

That there are avenues such as AppleCare for this sort of issue.

The same can be said for every other product in the world. There will definitely be defective goods no matter who you shop with. Apple is no exception. I am not saying that it's acceptable, but it's unrealistic to expect that every single one of their products shipped arrive with absolutely zero defects and will never break down within the first couple of years ever.

My iPhone 6s+ suffered from a dead motherboard, which got replaced by Apple. Just a few weeks ago, I also went to my apple store (thankfully before it closed) to have a dead AirPod replaced. Along my Apple-device-owning journey, I have also had an iMac screen replaced, an Apple Watch replaced for scuffing problems, and my iMac keyboard replaced due to sticky keys.

As you can see, I have also had my share of bad luck with Apple products, and AppleCare has come through for me every time. That's why I remain a satisfied and loyal apple customer. Their products do work well for me, and Apple has a rather reliable process in place to address the problems that I do encounter. So my experience with Apple has been largely seamless.

Lastly, this issue has largely become silent since the huge uproar in end-December 2018 (which was really a case of TheVerge opting to misrepresent an Apple statement, and every other blog reposting the same few stock images, making the issue seem way larger than it really was).

 

[atomic.flip]

Fair enough. But this is just the 2018 CPU with some minor tweaks (one more GPU core, and that's about it).



I wouldn't put too much thought into that single benchmark. It could be a bug on the benchmark's end, it could be something Apple will fix in 13.4.1, etc. I can't think of a reason why memory speed would have changed significantly one way or another.



I think it's a valid question. Upgrading a $1k+ computer after a year and a half without having a specific reason is an unusual choice. Apple didn't say this came with a significant performance boost, and from the CPU branding, the clear suggestion is that it doesn't.

Either way, this one isn't for you. The major changes to the hardware involve the camera, and the added LiDAR, not the CPU. Wait this generation out.

I totally agree with you on all points. Except that I was really eager to get a boost in export speed. Otherwise the iPad Pro I have now is excellent.

Anyway the new machine arrives next Monday so I’ll open it up and run a side by side on export and see if there is any difference. If it’s not notably faster and definitely if it is slower I’ll send it back.

PS: Sorry about the comment calling you out at the end of my post. I edited the remark to make it less personal.
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I totally agree with you on all points. Except that I was really eager to get a boost in export speed. Otherwise the iPad Pro I have now is excellent.

(in the if it ain’t broke don’t fix it subject I’ve been rocking a 2014 MacBook Pro and my primary desktop machine is the first 5K iMac from 2012. I am upgrading to a maxed out 16” MacBook Pro cause the 64gb of ram, 8 tb and upgraded GPU will seriously affect my workflow. Right now my 2014 MacBook Pro just hits a brick wall due to that nvidia card, not to mention. I’m constantly running with just around 100 gb free. I’d just been waiting for 32gb ram. Then couldn’t afford the 15” at the time. Now I can and the new 16” actually (almost makes me feel justified with the expense. Not really but almost. 6-7K for a laptop. Sigh. I’m hoping that thing can just be my primary machine in general.)

Anyway the new machine arrives next Monday so I’ll open it up and run a side by side on export and see if there is any difference. If it’s not notably faster and definitely if it is slower I’ll send it back.

PS: Sorry about the comment calling you out at the end of my post. I edited the remark to make it less personal.

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That there are avenues such as AppleCare for this sort of issue.

The same can be said for every other product in the world. There will definitely be defective goods no matter who you shop with. Apple is no exception. I am not saying that it's acceptable, but it's unrealistic to expect that every single one of their products shipped arrive with absolutely zero defects and will never break down within the first couple of years ever.

My iPhone 6s+ suffered from a dead motherboard, which got replaced by Apple. Just a few weeks ago, I also went to my apple store (thankfully before it closed) to have a dead AirPod replaced. Along my Apple-device-owning journey, I have also had an iMac screen replaced, an Apple Watch replaced for scuffing problems, and my iMac keyboard replaced due to sticky keys.

As you can see, I have also had my share of bad luck with Apple products, and AppleCare has come through for me every time. That's why I remain a satisfied and loyal apple customer. Their products do work well for me, and Apple has a rather reliable process in place to address the problems that I do encounter. So my experience with Apple has been largely seamless.

Lastly, this issue has largely become silent since the huge uproar in end-December 2018 (which was really a case of TheVerge opting to misrepresent an Apple statement, and every other blog reposting the same few stock images, making the issue seem way larger than it really was).

My launch day 2018 iPad Pro had a bend to it. I brought it in and they swapped it out. The new one was perfect. Never bothered to look into it further but I suspect one of the factories were managing the build process differently. That curve looked like a warping effect from rapid cool down of hot metal.

 

[Digital Dude]

i owned both a 12.9" and 11" iPad Pro for over a year. i throw it in my backpack with no issue.

you just abuse your devices. a small percentage of owners experience a bend due to that which is hardly a widespread issue. go search on Twitter, most tweets from the past year link back to jerryrigeverything's ipad bend test. i see a couple of tweets over the past several months complaining about the issue. i see 100x more tweets relating to butterfly switch keyboards failing (even still, I don't think the butterfly switches are a widespread issue, just a higher percentage than bending iPads)

also a bend isn't a sign of quality. a thin laptop can easily bend. it's just a physics issue when you go from a curved edge to a flat edge (for charging the pencil 2) for such a thin device. unless of course you switch over to a different material, but then you're just adding weight which Apple decided to strike a balance between durability and weight. if you look at the surface pro, the magnesium body adds a ton of weight which makes it not so friendly to hold in the hands all day.
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you do know that Apple could have easily nerfed and downclocked the A12X to make A12Z look better and no one would complain, right?

I agree with your post as it covers everything accurately. Frankly, I like the Surface Pro X and the OS in some ways better than the iPad. Heck, if Microsoft wasn't so lazy, they could jump ahead at this point. Apple's more conservative design approach and greed, has narrowed the gap.

Okay, I can't believe I just typed this, so I'll have to join the 'Witness Protection Program' following this reply. Notwithstanding, I ordered the new iPad Pro, despite my cold feet. I haven't owned an iPad in several years, and I needed it for a variety of reasons and couldn't wait any longer.

 

[MauiPa]

2 year old chip performance. Meanwhile forum members berate Intel for modest gains.

and I'm sure the ability to get a new chip into production was not impacted in any way, by world events

 

[jonnysods]

I have the 2018 iPad 12.9". I understand the desire for future proofing so you want the best spec every time, but who is pushing their CPU so hard in their iPad that if they had a 2018 iPad, would want the new one? What punching and rendering are people doing on their iPads?

 

[chucker23n1]

I totally agree with you on all points. Except that I was really eager to get a boost in export speed. Otherwise the iPad Pro I have now is excellent.

No, I understand that, and I'm surprised they didn't make an A13X for this (which likely would've been another ~18% boost, given A12 vs. A13).

But the A12X is already a really good CPU, even if you've found a way to max it out.

If they go back to the usual cycle, there will probably be a new iPad Pro in fall 2021, with an A15X.

Anyway the new machine arrives next Monday so I’ll open it up and run a side by side on export and see if there is any difference. If it’s not notably faster and definitely if it is slower I’ll send it back.

Yup, makes sense to me.

PS: Sorry about the comment calling you out at the end of my post. I edited the remark to make it less personal.

I think it was someone else you called out. Or I missed it.

Either way, I can understand how "you shouldn't have bought that" is rude. But tone aside, I stand by the gist of that comment: Apple didn't claim there would be a significant performance boost (and there probably isn't, aside from graphics), and upgrading after just a year and a half strikes me as rapid. But I can understand it in your scenario where every second saved counts.

 

[MauiPa]

I agree with your post as it covers everything accurately. Frankly, I like the Surface Pro and the OS in some ways better than the iPad. Heck, if Microsoft wasn't so lazy, they could jump ahead at this point. Apple's more conservative design approach and greed, has narrowed the gap.

Okay, I can't believe I just typed this, so I'll have to join the 'Witness Protection Program' following this reply. Notwithstanding, I ordered the new iPad Pro, despite my feel cold. I haven't owned an iPad in several years, and I needed it for a variety of reasons and couldn't wait any longer.

Greed? you checked your beloved surface pro lately?

 

[Digital Dude]

Greed? you checked your beloved surface pro lately?

Yeah, about 120-seconds before I posted. The iPad Pro 12.9/1TB w/Pen2, AC and upcoming Magic Keyboard is $2,500-ish'.

 

[MauiPa]

The chip's "Performance Controller" (i.e., CPU scheduler) will need to be Perf Tested / Evaluated.

As a reminder, the A10 (in the 7/7+) had a simplified design, which worked extremely well (i.e., Extreme High Perf).

Apple incorporated fancier & fancier designs in the A11 & A12, which UN-fortunately, they did NOT fully test BEFORE committing to Silicon !

The A13's Perf Controller is almost as good as the A10's !

The Perf Controller in the A12Z would obviously be their latest design, & may be just as Good as the A10's !

Note that this is NOT something the Avg iPhone OR iPad User would ever discover, OR know about.

ONLY those who use Extreme Perf CPU-oriented apps, of which there are very few.

Those who remember Phil's statements about the Perf Controller a few A-series chips back, should have more insight than others into this part of the chip.

But ALSO, ask yourself, why does Apple NEVER mention it anymore ???

You now know the reason !!!

This would definitely come across as anything but a snark filled rant, if you could help point us to anything to back up your premise. Not doubting you in the least of course, just with all of the made up haterboi stuff, it is hard to find the real issues. so please help us out!
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Yeah, about 120-seconds before I posted. The iPad Pro 12.9/1TB w/Pen2, AC and upcoming Magic Keyboard is $2,500-ish

the surface pro?

 

[chucker23n1]

I agree with your post as it covers everything accurately. Frankly, I like the Surface Pro X and the OS in some ways better than the iPad. Heck, if Microsoft wasn't so lazy, they could jump ahead at this point. Apple's more conservative design approach and greed, has narrowed the gap.

As far as greed is concerned, iPads can't compete on price with Chromebooks, but… Surface? Absolutely. If anything, a Surface is more expensive.

I have the 2018 iPad 12.9". I understand the desire for future proofing so you want the best spec every time, but who is pushing their CPU so hard in their iPad that if they had a 2018 iPad, would want the new one? What punching and rendering are people doing on their iPads?

Well, it seems @atomic.flip, for one, is using it heavily for audio production.

And here's Jason Snell using it for podcast editing.
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Yeah, about 120-seconds before I posted. The iPad Pro 12.9/1TB w/Pen2, AC and upcoming Magic Keyboard is $2,500-ish'.

And a Surface Pro X can't even be had with 1TB.

With 512GB, a similar config is $2,068.99.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

When someone yelled "get bent!" at you, this is not what they were talking about.

Hey, don’t get me wrong... I ordered one (expected arrival April 1-2); I just wanted to make it clear- there’s no myth: the 3rd gen iPad Pro was definitely “delicate” compared to every other iPad I’ve owned.

 

[MauiPa]

Yeah, about 120-seconds before I posted. The iPad Pro 12.9/1TB w/Pen2, AC and upcoming Magic Keyboard is $2,500-ish'.

hmm I just looked at surface pro $2559 with 1TB, surface pen and type cover (not in the same league as the Magic Keyboard). so kind of greedy? oh, and you misnamed the wifi on the iPad it is wifi 6 (ax), not AC
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If there are just modest gains to be had with this new "Z" chip, then why not just refer to it as the A12X and not even mention the update to the CPU?

It seems that this new naming scheme is all marketing and no performance benefits to backup the Z nomenclature.

did you read the article? it is close to the A12x, but with an added gpu core, and wifi 6, so that is just marketing?

 

[Falhófnir]

2 year old chip performance. Meanwhile forum members berate Intel for modest gains.

The A12Z still outperforms the chips in the MBA anyway though. Especially running without the benefit of a fan!

 

[chucker23n1]

Hey, don’t get me wrong... I ordered one (expected arrival April 1-2); I just wanted to make it clear- there’s no myth: the 3rd gen iPad Pro was definitely “delicate” compared to every other iPad I’ve owned.

Yeah, it does seem like a real issue. I can't comment on how widespread it is, though. It doesn't seem anywhere near as widespread as the butterfly keyboard reliability problems.

 

[macduke]

I was already planing to skip this generation anyway and this makes me glad that I did. Now bring on the mLED model or whatever is coming out later this year! Hopefully by then all economies are recovering and most people are on the mend.

 

[cmaier]

mom not stating anything about designing another chip. Quite in agreement with you.

I’m stating Apple probably could not get Foxxcon to produce an A13X chip (my mistake earlier as I stated A13) for the iPad Pro. The iPhone 11 debuted last year with A13 but the iPad Por was released earlier than usual 11mths prior and thus had to wait for the A13X which wouldve been in line to ship around this time.

this easier to work with Foxxcon and ship A12Z an amendment of an existing A12 chip and start production of A14 & A14x (the later late summer for XMas 2020).

not just about production yet a concern for sales numbers of units during this crisis. As a CEO or engineering team would you want to spend the extra money and team effort or save the angst for much later.

I don’t think an adjustment like what we’re seeing takes years to plan on. Simply a month and a half for a slight incremental adjustment. Just my thoughts.

Foxconn doesn’t make chips for Apple.

And a month and a half is not nearly enough time to convert an a12x to an a12z. Even a change that simple takes a year or more.

 

[chucker23n1]

The A12Z still outperforms the chips in the MBA anyway though. Especially running without the benefit of a fan!

To be fair, the A12Z runs at more than twice the clock. (I wonder if Apple will ever do something like Turbo Boost, instead of or in addition to their Fusion setup?)

It'll be interesting to see what Ice Lake-SP looks like later this year. Or even just the 1068G7.
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Foxconn doesn’t make chips for Apple.

And a month and a half is not nearly enough time to convert an a12x to an a12z. Even a change that simple takes a year or more.

They probably had A12Z ready as a plan B, but considered (and eventually discarded, whatever the reason) an A13X as a plan A.

 

[BWhaler]

Confirms earlier comments the right call for existing owners is not to upgrade and to buy the new keyboard.

Honestly, what the iPad platform needs is more innovative software, a more robust iPadOS, and a ton less bugs.

Apple hardware in more than ample. The software is lacking. This is true across the Apple ecosystem.

 

[cmaier]

Why is everyone pushing for Micro-LED? Wouldn’t an OLED panel be more feasible( and probable) screen iteration of LCD on the iPad?

Feasible, yes. Probable, yes, at the moment (but not very probably). MicroLED would be brighter than OLED, have great dynamic range like OLED, but not suffer from burn-in.
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I have multiple bends in my 12.9---I will not buy another iPad Pro until they figure that out. It is absolutely unacceptable for those devices to bend while being used as intended.

It’s amazing how so many iPads apparently spontaneously bend, and it’s never the owner’s fault.

 

[Spectrum]

Why no A13 generation chip in here? Seems very odd...

 

[cmaier]

Why no A13 generation chip in here? Seems very odd...

They will skip straight to A14, so that the ipad has the same generation Arm chip as MacBook, later this year (When they also add 5G and miniLED)

 

[Falhófnir]

To be fair, the A12Z runs at more than twice the clock. (I wonder if Apple will ever do something like Turbo Boost, instead of or in addition to their Fusion setup?)

It'll be interesting to see what Ice Lake-SP looks like later this year. Or even just the 1068G7.
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They probably had A12Z ready as a plan B, but considered (and eventually discarded, whatever the reason) an A13X as a plan A.

To be fair the A12Z can run at more than twice the clock without cooking itself or throttling so badly that it loses most of its performance!

 

[farewelwilliams]

Perhaps.

Let's see. Apple shipped about 11.4 million iPads in the first quarter when the 2018 model was released. If only 1/2 of 1% of them had bending issues, that's 57,000 units right out of the chute.

Many people here on this very forum have posted about their bent iPad Pros, and the poster's here are rabid Apple fans and a very small subset of the overall market. It's not an imaginary issue. Word of this has also impeded many -- like me -- from upgrading from the Gen 2 model. That's a number that is unknown.

If only 1/2 of 1% of the users has experienced this (a made-up number by me for sure, but it's a "small percentage", and it very well could be higher), what do you say to those 57,000 customers who bought a $1200 piece of equipment that they perceive as faulty? They don't matter?

I'll wait. I'm looking to upgrade. The specs on the new unit are better than mine, but as a superuser who travels extensively and uses my iPad heavily, I'll look to what people are saying when the shipments start showing up on their doorsteps.

i’ve done that same math regarding bending iPad Pros before at a full 1% and still said the same thing (you can probably search on the forum for my post about this)

what i tell them is that the iPhones 5-7 had defect rates above 5% (6 and 6s being above 15%). considering iPhones sell far more than iPads, were talking millions of units potentially having some issue that isn’t being talked about as much as this bend issue. i stand by my point: the bend issue is overblown.

 

[chucker23n1]

To be fair the A12Z can run at more than twice the clock without cooking itself or throttling so badly that it loses most of its performance!

Sure.

Please don't destroy my bubble of hope that I can have a fast Mac laptop that runs Windows in a VM.