you’re right I forgot it’s TSMC, I meant Foxxcon for assembly.
how are you 100% sure that TSMC cannot adjust a chip in fabrication to make a seemingly slight adjustment within a few months? This is not a major lithography change going. On here.
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Benchmarks Suggest New iPad Pro's A12Z Chip is Nearly Identical to A12X in 2018 iPad Pro
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you’re right I forgot it’s TSMC, I meant Foxxcon for assembly.
how are you 100% sure that TSMC cannot adjust a chip in fabrication to make a seemingly slight adjustment within a few months? This is not a major lithography change going. On here.
Nobody should actually be buying this model. Get a used or refurbished 2018 model or wait for the true 2018 iPad Pro successor, because this ain't it.
It's absolutely a major lithography change, that changes every mask level. I was a CPU designer for a decade. I did many "minor revisions" like this. Even if there was no change to the floorpan (unlikely), it takes a month just to do logic verification on the changes. Even if the change is simple enough to be an "ECO" (meaning that every other wire and transistor on the chip stays exactly the same, other than the new ones, which is again unlikely), you then have to run various forms of physical verification on the new design to make sure that wires being *near* each other didn't cause problems, the power grid can handle the new load, etc. That's another couple of months. And only once all that is done do you even tape out to the fab, which then, even for rocket lots, takes a month to get you silicon back to test. There's just no way.
Agreed...
To be honest- I was likely about as rough on my previous iPads as they could handle & just blissfully unaware of that fact until a model came out where the physics of it being so large and slim made it unable to hold up to what I considered “normal” usage.
I’m obviously not purposefully abusive of my expensive electronics; to the contrary, I cherish them!
However, last gen (in the 12.9”) was the 1st time I’ve had to train myself to be more gentle.
I already pre-ordered another zugucase & purchased Apple Care, so I’m taking it seriously.
Holding out hope that iFixit soon reveals a structural improvement a lá iPhone 6S, though!
wow what a disgrace.
I'm keeping my 2018 iPad Pro
APPLE raises build to order prices on Macs by 10 percent
New iPad Pro performance same as previous model.
I'm keeping my 2018 iPad Pro
APPLE raises build to order prices on Macs by 10 percent
New iPad Pro performance same as previous model.
Bro....
Why does this one issue bring out the snide meanness in so many people???
I get it.
You are SUPER gentle with your iPads.
Yours NEVER get bent.
Anyone who ever had theirs bend is an idiot, a liar, or did something “wrong”.
You win, ok?
Can we please get back to chip performance convo (which I appreciate your opinions & expertise!) & get off the looking down the nose and scoffing at/blaming anyone who is frustrated that their kit got bent?
The 3 was replaced so soon because it was really underpowered, the A12X is still around nearly unchanged as A12Z because it was at most overpowered and even today is still more than enough. Even if an A14X comes in 6 months, the A12X/Z will still be great for a long time.
here’s the point. I’m not gentle at all.
but everyone who says they have a bent iPad claims they didn’t do anything wrong. Just normal use. They have no idea how it happened.
it’s facially ridiculous. Nobody believes these stories.
Well then....
You’re flat out calling me a liar.
For no reason.
You don’t know me.
This is not even the topic... we’re TRYING to talk about the new processor.
For whatever bizarre reason, you can’t accept your good luck!
You instead are choosing to be churlish. It’s not a good look for you.
I really don’t know what to tell you.
Ummm.... I’m sorry yours didn’t bend as well, under the same standard use mine did?
Don't know exactly what you want here- every single person that has had their iPad bend to line up in a row to kiss your arse, & admit they’re evil liars that broke their electronics on purpose, just so they could get your attention?
Talk about “facially ridiculous”. You really are taking the cake, man.
That's a valid point. Also, one has to realize that as the 'A' chips grow in complexity, their development cycle will inevitably slow down. Most likely, it's already the case and this is the reason we are not getting a radically new design. What's clear is that the perceived delay in the release of a new design has nothing to do with TSMC. Intel and AMD reported last week that they were operating at close to full capacity. While Intel has their own FABs, AMD actually uses TSMC. The FABs/foundries themselves have no problem with "social isolation" because these are clean environments where all workers wear special protective gear which helps protect against viruses too. Interestingly, I just read that Intel provided 1 million protective suits to health care providers from their inventory.
Do you have some citations for this or is this a wet finger in the air?
There is no possible way anybody would/could know this.
What is a perceived delay vs a real delay? And what "perceived" delay are you referring to? Timing vs the rumor mill?
What about the locker room where everybody changes?
Amazingly powerful for useless synthetic benchmarks but for real world usage like media consumption it's still hobbled by lack of VP9 codec for YouTube so limited to 1080p on a 2732-by-2048 display and lack of real business software for telecommute work.
As for why it still ships with the old SoC, if A12X was based on ARM A77 then there's nothing newer to upgrade it to.
As for why it still ships with the old SoC, if A12X was based on ARM A77 then there's nothing newer to upgrade it to.
You are just asking pointless questions. You are queestioning the fact that A processors grow in complexity. Are you for real? Why do you think their performance is improving? If you want links, go to Anandtech and read their reviews of the architecture of Apple processors from different years. I am not going to bother proving obvious facts. And here is a link proving the fact that may not be obvious: Intel, AMD Say They're Operating Near Capacity Despite Coronavirus Disruptions
What nonsense. You're just spitballing opinions as facts with respect to the A series processors. Intel and AMD production is a diversion to TSMC production capacity, which is not known. And the article isn't really clear on how "normal" production capacity is for Intel and AMD.
More nonsense from you. I sense AAPL shareholder there. You are implying that TSMC is producing for AMD but not Apple. That's stupid. Besides, learn how to use Google. Here is a news from March 19th:
TAIPEI: The world's top contract chipmaker - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd - said on Wednesday an employee at its office in Taiwan had tested positive for coronavirus.
The company, whose clients include tech giants such as Apple and Huawei, said it had tightened disease controls and the incident would not affect company operations.
Or another news:
Apple A-series chip supplier TSMC has said that production in its Chinese facilities remains on track despite the coronavirus outbreak impacting output at a number of factories in the country…
Besides, based on the relase date, A12Z should have been designed and production started way before the pandemic started.
I can prove most of my " spitballing opinions" (though some are just that - opinions). You, however, can't prove anything. You just keep asking ridiculous questions everyone who's opinion or statement you do not like. You do not really need to be an Apple volunteer in this forum (unless you are paid to be), Apple is doing just fine and does not need your help.
What nonsense. The number of shares of AAPL are irrelevant to anything. Most of your original post is just spitballing with some red-herring comments thrown in.
You don't need to be a volunteer Apple critic either. Apple already knows what it needs to do, and unless you are being paid), doesn't need outside help.
Apple's A chips haven't been based on any ARM Cortex since the A6. So, no, A12X wasn't based on A77, nor was any other Apple product. (Apple A5 was based on Cortex-A9, and A4 on Cortex-A8, the 3GS's was a Samsung Cortex-A8 implementation, and the 2G and 3G's was ARM11, before Cortex.)
Well, I provided several links but you just keep spitballing. You must be the only one on this forum who does not believe that the complexity of A processors is growing. That's OK, I am not going to waste my time convincing you. In general, you seem to be short on facts/links. You are big on questioning others to provide them though. Typical distraction technique.
While Apple Ax has indeed grown in complexity, you seem to be implying that complexity is the only way to improve performance, which… wha?
I am not. Process (TSMC) is a factor too. However latest process iterations actually don't help much with performance, they help more with lower power consumption. There is a reason why Apple added another GPU unit
You have two levers. Improve IPC, and increase f. Increase f and you get a linear increase in performance (more or less). We know that benchmarks are improving faster than f, so there must be IPC improvement.
Increasing f is easier if you don’t increase complexity. But increasing IPC almost always requires increasing complexity. That’s the fun of processor design.
Certainly the design has gotten more complex on some level, but we can’t really tell how much.
That's a valid point. Also, one has to realize that as the 'A' chips grow in complexity, their development cycle will inevitably slow down.
The above is spitballing.
Most likely, it's already the case and this is the reason we are not getting a radically new design.
More of the same.
What's clear is that the perceived delay in the release of a new design has nothing to do with TSMC.
What perceived delay? This is more of the same.
None of the above can be proved. They are all opinions, which is fine. This isn't a debate about the complexity of the cpu design, it's about the baseless conclusions drawn from a general statement.
While Intel has their own FABs, AMD actually uses TSMC. The FABs/foundries themselves have no problem with "social isolation" because these are clean environments where all workers wear special protective gear which helps protect against viruses too. Interestingly, I just read that Intel provided 1 million protective suits to health care providers from their inventory.
The relevance to the topic of the A12Z is what?
