Best Buy Guesses at a March MacBook Pro Release Date as Supplies Constrain

[ikkejick]

Entertain me - who, and why?

Musicians? That's, like, 3 customers.

Then I am one of them. Exciting !

 

[blue22]

none of this is relevant. it doesn't matter what apple paid for the commodity components. they are going to sell them to you at a substantial mark-up. ssd's are commodity products that apple buys in bulk, just like memory, cpu's, gpu's, and hard drives. look at the bto options - does apple give you a "discounted" price because they good a good price buying a bulk? no! of course not! they charge you even more than the retail price from newegg or wherever. this is not anything new, you just don't understand how it works.

Agreed. Apple's pricing history supports this argument.

I agree.

Apple is famous for dropping "fading out" peripherals like the floppy drive, which many people here used as an example to show that Apple will drop optical drive in the next MBPs. However, Apple is also famous for adding components only when they are ready for prime time and fits in their margins without significantly changing the price.

That's why they are offering SSD as a BTO option which does not increase their base price.

Within the next 4-6 weeks we'll know for sure how soon Apple is going to push the ODD off the cliff.

The case for ditching the ODD in the upcoming refresh can be argued by the MacAppStore's debut a few weeks back, recent reports of eliminating software CD/DVD in Apple retail stores, and the introduction of flash storage in the MBA's back in October.

The case for keeping the ODD in the upcoming refresh is mainly to not price out the average consumer via making an SSD a baseline standard, and due to their pricing history it's unlikely that Apple would offer to lower their margins on memory and storage components.

My guess (and pure speculation) is Apple won't drop the ODD in the next revised MacBook Pro's until they're ready to unveil a new form factor to revamp their notebook line-up later in the year with Quad-core processors (Ivy Bridge) and prices of SSD's and flash memory has dropped a bit more from where they are today.

...osx does not even have trim support to properly use an ssd today...

You are ill informed on TRIM - it's not needed. It's what wannabe geeks talk about IMO. Sounds great. But it's a dead end technologically. Managing flash storage must be the duty of the controller, not the OS. OT here but SSD controllers already do, using a variety of approaches.

Orthorim is on the money about how data block management on SSD's will most likely be handled as a standard moving forward, but Dime21 is also correct that TRIM is not supported by OSX, and in general the issue of wear leveling is a valid concern to have while using an SSD on a Mac presently. Mercury Extreme SSD's addresses this issue, but it's just not standard yet so you'd have to install it yourself after you order your MBP.

If anyone thinks that Apple will be delayed by the Intel Sandy Bridge debacle take a look at the specifics of what was wrong with the faulty chipset. The two highspeed 6Gbps SATA were not effected (channel 0 and 1) only the slower 3Gbps SATA portion was affected. Since Apple only uses 2 SATA connections (the HDD and superdrive) they dont need the others to work, thus no reason to delay the product as the consumer will never know the difference.

So, technically speaking, there's a silver lining around the corner after all

Still, who wants to knowingly pay premium prices for a faulty chipset, even if it doesn't directly impact your performance experience with the system? Personally, I'd rather wait until they fix the problem, and besides, "Apple doesn't ship junk", remember?

 

[sagnier]

Let me guess: No quad-core? Again?
Shame on Apple for neglecting its professional user base. Give me a bulky and ugly-looking laptop (with OS X) instead of a thin, shiny, and fashionable-looking laptop anyday. When the hell did computing start being about fashion and status symbols instead of using the most powerful components available?

quite a while ago. didnt you notice?

 

[MrNomNoms]

1) According to the online US Apple Store and my local one the shipping time is 24 hours so I wonder to what degree it has to do with Apple mucking around with the supply chain in favour of maximising its own sales versus them keeping a large inventory when compared to the big name retail stores out there.

2) Regarding hard disk space, I need moar space! moar space I say! I have 200GB of music, another half gig of applications, then throw on top of that files for work and you're already hitting 300GB.

3) I don't see it happening very fast given that 20 February is when Intel will start shipping boards that aren't borken which means at the earliest we'll see a refresh around April/May - if so then I'll take advantage of the refresh and upgrade my iMac and MacBook Pro By then I would have been in my job for 5 months, nice and stable, income coming in etc.

 

[pepitko]

Good to see some potential dates, rather than pure speculation. Also good to see some "mac" related rumors for once.

 

[orthorim]

First of all, going from 64GB to 128GB is $200, and second of all that isn't the price Apple pays its the price Apple chooses for you to pay. Just like their RAM upgrades that are 4x what you can get from some other seller.

Basic Math: 64GB for $200 is even more expensive than 128GB for $300.

I understand what you are saying - I just think you are overly optimistic about the market price for Flash memory. And yes, I know they're buying in bulk, and they're sure as hell going to bank on getting it cheaper than anyone else. They're already playing this game to great effect on the iPod and iPad. Others have trouble matching Apple's prices - largely due to Flash market prices.

Since nobody can really give a definitive answer - Apple's bulk rate it's most likely a trade secret - we'll have to put this argument to rest and see what they come up with.

 

[Hwaet]

I am checking MacRumors every second day now - the wait is killing me. A five year old Macbook just don't cut it no more.

I'd be very surprised if they dropped the DVD drive. Macbook Pros are not marketed at programmers or techies - they enjoy their heaviest use in entertainment, business, graphic design, and a plethora of other fields far from ready to make the switch. That's not to say it can't happen, but I strongly doubt it. The selling point of the Macbook Pro is that it has everything you could need. If they're about to drop the DVD drive anywhere, it would be on the Macbook.

 

[sagnier]

Whether it's an ultra-portable or a notebook is irrelevant. I provided an example as to why it would be possible and you have done nothing to prove otherwise. Apple wants flash storage in all of their machines. The MacBook Air also used to have a HDD so your argument is as flat as can be. Also they have different needs? Last I checked anyone who owns a MBP most definitely wants an SSD over an HDD.

No, they aren't. As can be easily seen when you upgrade a lower end machine to to be closer to that of a higher end machine using Apple's BTO options.


This is the biggest hunk of garbage I've read in this entire thread. For notebook computers flash memory is PERFECT. Apple isn't about low cost, buddy. The storage amount in an SSD is more than enough for a notebook computer.

No, they stated that it was the next generation of MacBooks. I just love how you are stating all of these things as is they are fact. "They are not going to eliminate the optical drive", "flash storage is a pipe dream" without providing any real evidence other than your opinion.

I've provided two examples to back up what I've been saying. One was that of the MacBook Air already has flash storage as default when you are claiming that having flash storage on any machine as baseline is a pipe dream. Then the second being the latest rumor that Apple is removing all physical media from their stores only to add to the move to completely digital via the Mac App Store. You are just wasting my time with your frivolous arguments.

oh dear. getting a bit hot under the collar there.

some third-party rebuttals:

1) i don't want a ssd in my mbp. not at the price Apple currently charges. £1148 vs £82 for the 512gb hdd! gimme a break
2) how do you know (in detail) anything about the margins?
3) i wouldn't say flash memory is PERFECT, and neither would Apple. i mean, its quite expensive and low-capacity, relative to HDD, and so when you consider that fact in respect of the breadth of the consumer market you can see that possibly Apple are being wise in keeping HDDs in a portion of their laptops. The evidence for why they might employ this strategy is already apparent: flash storage has been available for several years, but Apple has resisted the apparently irresistible temptation to install it as standard from the moment it came to market.

4) Apple isn't about low cost? Well, no they're not cheap, as things go. But they're not £££$$$ for the sheer hell of it. If they were they'd be charging $1000000 for a laptop. They have to strike a balance between what people will pay, what components cost, what shareholders want, how the market is moving, what consumers and need and want, the 'jobsian' vision of the future, etc. And in striking that balance, Apple happen to end up with a range of products that are priced at the top end of the market that they are in, generally speaking. But its not as simple as saying 'Apple isnt about low cost'.

5) No macbook air is an example of a 'baseline' product. Well, i suppose the cheaper one is, but only by dint of it being the cheaper example of that subset of laptop products. Observing that the 'baseline' mba has flash storage is somewhat specious: There's no value in simply looking at the way things are right now and ignoring everything else. For example, the mba came to market three years ago and had HDD as standard, and flash as a BTO (and hugely expensive) option. People wanted an ultrathin (and they got it) but they moaned about the crappy battery life and the overall cost of the machine. Eventually, Apple had the means to produce a cheaper machine in that form factor, with the nerdy cachet, speed improvements and lower power consumption offered by flash. But its not as simple as saying its a 'baseline' product - it exists within both the range of apple's laptops, and a constantly changing marketplace.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

A march release would be great, but its still speculation.

I think SSDs are still too expensive for a standard option. Maybe a BTO, but not standard. I also do not want to give up the storage of a 500GB drive for a 128 to 256 SSD. There have also been some new 750GB drives released for laptops. I wouldn't mind one of those. And no I wouldn't want an SSD and an external larger drive as some have suggested, that for me defeats the whole "portability" aspect of laptops.

As far as getting rid of the optical drive, well I don't want that to happen. I still use my optical drive plenty thank you very much. Maybe in another 2-3 years it will be a different story for me, but not now.

Well guess what. Nobody said you had yo buy the new MacBook pros if they don't fit your needs. Not every product can be perfect for everyone. Get that through your guys' heads. If you want a mbp with an optical drive and an hdd you can buy one yesterday. Imagine that...?

Apple doesn't care if you get a 1tb hdd in your mbp, they don't care about the dying optical drive, just like they didn't care about floppy, like how they pushed the industry to use USB. Apple does what they want, and it doesn't look like their sales numbers are hurting.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Honestly at this point I'd just call you a troll who has no idea what he's talking about but I guess I'll respond anyway. Whether it's an ultra-portable or a notebook is irrelevant. I provided an example as to why it would be possible and you have done nothing to prove otherwise.

Of course it's possible, it doesn't make business sense. Why don't you try and address the question rather than deflecting with personal attacks?

Apple wants flash storage in all of their machines. The MacBook Air also used to have a HDD so your argument is as flat as can be. Also they have different needs? Last I checked anyone who owns a MBP most definitely wants an SSD over an HDD.

Of course they do, because SSD is Apple's vision of the future for notebooks. Most consumers want them too because they're faster, use less power and are resistant to drops.

But everyone still has to live in the real world. SSDs don't have enough storage space for a lot of consumers, and many consumers don't want to pay the huge $/GB premium that comes with them. Apple has to deal with this fact by base-lining their MBPs with a traditional HDD. This also makes them cost competitive. (which we'll get to later).

No, they aren't. As can be easily seen when you upgrade a lower end machine to to be closer to that of a higher end machine using Apple's BTO options.

Those models usually have fundamental differences such as different amounts of VRAM or an entirely different enclosure which doesn't make it a fair comparison. Basically, Apple designs a notebook to hit a certain margin and then prices BTO options to hit other margins. Whether or not these BTO upgrades reflect actual real world prices is seemingly arbitrary. If you disagree, provide a specific example.

This is the biggest hunk of garbage I've read in this entire thread. For notebook computers flash memory is PERFECT. Apple isn't about low cost, buddy. The storage amount in an SSD is more than enough for a notebook computer.

Is more than enough? OK, provide me some numbers from a random study with a sample size of at least 1000 showing that the vast majority would be fine being limited to 256 GB of hard drive space. Otherwise, you're spouting baseless opinion. My argument is also helped by the fact that no one else in this thread agrees with you.

Apple is about lowering costs because over the past few years, the cost of the MBP has gone down to appeal to a wider market.

No, they stated that it was the next generation of MacBooks. I just love how you are stating all of these things as is they are fact. "They are not going to eliminate the optical drive", "flash storage is a pipe dream" without providing any real evidence other than your opinion.

If you're specifically splicing words out of my statement, it doesn't look good for your argument. I clearly stated that flash storage as a baseline for MBPs is a pipe dream in the near future. The same for optical drives. I gave logical reasons for each of these citing consumer needs and cost. If you can't digest that logic, I can't help you.

I've provided two examples to back up what I've been saying. One was that of the MacBook Air already has flash storage as default when you are claiming that having flash storage on any machine as baseline is a pipe dream.

Nope, made no such claim.

Then the second being the latest rumor that Apple is removing all physical media from their stores only to add to the move to completely digital via the Mac App Store. You are just wasting my time with your frivolous arguments.

To make room for more profitable merchandise. No comment was made on how they'd accommodate the software that has yet to be released in the Mac App Store, with no guarantee of this happening. If apple removed the optical drive from all of their notebooks, hordes of fanatics would be breathing hellfire about how they have to pay for an external drive that is inconvenient and bulky. Apple could do a fork off to a MBP with no optical drive, but there is going to be a MBP with an optical drive for a good while.

Although TDP is 10W higher on quad cores, the figure represents worst case scenario. In most of the real world scenarios, battery life and heat dissipation will be less than current generation MBP.

While that is absolutely true, I don't know whether Apple is wanting to maintain a large TDP margin, hold on to every last ounce of precious battery life, or just avoid MBPs having quad cores whereas some of their desktops don't. In any event, come Haswell they won't have a choice.

You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.

 

[KPOM]

Apple buys in bulk, the price the receive an SSD at is much lower than what a consumer can buy for individually.

Yes, and they sell them to us at list price. Apple has a great thing going. They make almost as much on flash memory as the manufacturers themselves. Naturally, over time this will come down, but Apple is not going to start a price war over SSD.

 

[AndrewClarke]

Entertain me - who, and why?

Musicians? That's, like, 3 customers.

Film professionals? They have the cash to upgrade to 512GB Flash. Or even 1TB. Look at what they pay for a camera! Compared to the cost of these professionals' other gear, 1TB of Flash storage would be nothing.

The average Joe makes up most of Apple's customers - the average consumer, if you will. They watch YouTube, stream Netflix maybe, do email and Facebook, listen to music, and that's about it. The average consumer doesn't even know what bittorrent is, and will buy 3 movies on iTunes before realizing that it's crazy expensive.

If there are "lots of people" needing more than 300GB - I don't see them. As a programmer, I certainly don't need more. IDEs and dev tools are getting fatter, but they still only make up a few GB.

I'll start with the easiest and most annoying answer: all those people you can't think of. A LOT of musicians buy Macbook Pros. I'll guess you don't know a lot of musicians. There are a lot of them out there.

The next general answer is, anybody who finds it annoying to carry around an external drive. In many cases, it's just not practical to have an external drive attached. It makes the computer less portable and it burns up batteries. When I'm at a client's office and have to go from one room to another for some reason, the last thing I want to do is have to shut down everything on my external drive and remove it, or risk damaging my computer by carrying it around with a drive attached.

I'm a programmer/consultant type too, and I currently have a 512GB HD. I do a lot of travelling with my family and working while I'm away. I "like" to have my 150GB iPhoto (now Aperture) library on my computer as it makes my life a lot more convenient than having it on an external drive. I also preferably would have probably 1-4 VMs on my computer at any time, between Windows XP, 7, and 2008, and Linux. Those suckers take up at least 40GB each. I've completely removed my 130GB iTunes library from my portable to save space, which wasn't the end of the world but I'd prefer to not have to do it.

In my life, I can be gone overseas for a month or two at a time. I may have the family with me, and my computer needs to do duty as the fill-up station for the iPad for the kids, my workstation in a number of different operating systems, I need to have Eclipse, Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, Apple's developer tools, etc. installed which right there is about 3GB, etc. etc. I COULD do everything I needed on a 256GB or even a 128GB internal SSD, but it would be very annoying and difficult. I'd hate to be sitting on a train, airplane, client's office, airport, my couch, or wherever, and have to plug in an external drive to get any work done. I'd be a lot less productive. And sure, while theoretically I COULD spend $1300 more on a 512GB SSD option, I'm self employed and that money comes out of my retirement so I'm not going to do it.

Anyway, that's me. Everyone's needs are different, which was my original point. If you can get by with 256GB with no problem, that's cool. You also mention the "average Joe", which isn't really appropriate for this discussion. This is the Macbook PRO. The Macbook targets Joe Average.

 

[sagnier]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)



You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.

come on, not really though eh? matching screen size and storage (the only examples of similar hardware, and which can only be done when you compare the top end mba with the baseline mbp!), you're paying 25% more for the mba, as well as losing 0.5mhz in cpu speed, firewire, optical.

a 'decently specd' flash-only mbp already exists - its called the macbook air. what other differences do you imagine there will be, come the revision?

 

[AndrewClarke]

lmao, no way. next mbp will be traditional platter hard drive. end of story. osx does not even have trim support to properly use an ssd today. plus they would not be foolish enough to put flash memory system drive in the mbp. i don't want a 15" or 17" macbook air - which is what you are proposing - and neither does anyone else.

A 15" Macbook Pro with flash storage is not the same as a 15" Macbook Air. The Macbook Air's primary design constraint is size, which is not the case with the Macbook Pro.

A 15" Macbook Pro with a Core i7 processor with 512GB of flash storage would be ... wait, oh yeah that already exists. So how exactly is that BTO option equivalent to a 15" Macbook Air? Obviously people want it (in fact, a friend of mine has one), ergo your point is not valid.

 

[lifeguard90]

1GB gpu would be fantastic, the pro machine needs to be pro. also meaning 4gb ram can't be standard. make it 6 standard, 8gb bto

 

[SactoGuy18]

I think Apple may delay by about 2-4 weeks any release of their new MacBook and MacBook Pro laptops until they get supplies from Intel of the fixed Cougar Point chipsets.

I expect the new laptops to arrive mid to late April 2011.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)



You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.

come on, not really though eh? matching screen size and storage (the only examples of similar hardware, and which can only be done when you compare the top end mba with the baseline mbp!), you're paying 25% more for the mba, as well as losing 0.5mhz in cpu speed, firewire, optical.

a 'decently specd' flash-only mbp already exists - its called the macbook air. what other differences do you imagine there will be, come the revision?

They are similarly specd and perform about the same. You are paying for a lot of the engineering and design work that went into making the air so small.

A lot of people are asking for thinner mbp. Well unfortunately apple really can't go MUCH thinner because there are set thicknesses of optical drives and hard drives. By eliminating these two things apple can add other features like more battery/ potential ports. They can also thin down the laptop as many people want.

The difference between a mbp and MBA is obvious. Screen sizes for one, processors, graphics, etc all are much better in a pro. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will want a mbp with ssd and no optical drive and 10 hrs battery life with an i5 or i7. Really almost nobody needs an optical drive on the day to day basis. Larger storage of an hdd I can see being a problem for a fair amount of people but I think most will find a way to get by with externals or what have you.

As for what I think could happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if apple got rid of the 13 and started with a $1599 mbp 15" with maybe 256ssd standard. Maybe they will keep the 13 around and add the i3 or maybe a lower end 15 with the i3 for cheaper and get rid of the 13 which are kind of replaced by the air.

 

[chrmjenkins]

This is wrong on so many levels. They can offer the SSD as a standard on the 13" and 11" Air so they can offer them on on their other notebooks. We aren't talking about other computer manufacturers, everyone knows Apple doesn't follow the status quo for better or for worse. You keep saying they can't after I'm proving you an example of the MBA then you write it off as "HURR DURR ULTRA PORTABLE NOT PRO"

Do you not understand the product line distinction, or are you willingly ignoring it in hopes that it will help your point? In either case, it's not working. Apple has stated that they see the MBA as a vision of the future of notebooks, but not the entirety of their product lineup. It's pretty clear that it's not designed to be a primary computer, evidenced by the people who own other Macs besides the MBA.

Other manufacturers are still relevant because Apple is competing in the same market with these manufacturers. If they don't offer an option that people want and everyone else has, they lose business.

They've been offering flash storage while lowering the prices which means their margins were so high that they could do both. This isn't rocket science and the same will be able to happen to the MBP.

They've talked at length in financial calls about how they are tolerating lower margins on some products in hot markets. They made no commitment to this being an across the board strategy. If you have a transcript proving otherwise, please provide.

LOL, because you don't believe me? Heaven forbid you're actually wrong on something. But fine, you asked for a current example and I'll give you one. Go to the current 8-core Mac Pro > Select "Two 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores)" > Compare price with the default 12 core Mac Pro. If you want I can find you a video of the early 2009 iMac upgrade options for insult to injury.

Eh, this is really getting beyond the scope of my original point was that you can see how Apple builds extra margin into BTO options. The fact they coincide in the cofigurator is just common sense but not really productive for the overall argument.

Riddle me this: Why do people buy a 12 pack box of cereals instead of buying all 12 individually?

Solution: You don't have an actual answer to the question (ie numbers to back up your claims), so you try and deflect with a sophomoric nonsensical statement.

So you are claiming you know what consumers want. Where's the survey?

I have the fortunate position of not needing to. You are the one advocating change. I asked you to provide numbers to substantiate this change. You cannot, and furthermore, anecdotes from the thread are adding up against your case. Yet you continue.

Sorry, this doesn't work. You simply claimed it was a dream and provided no evidence to back up your claim while I offered the MBA as the counter argument.

Because it isn't relevant. No matter how many times you give the same example, it still won't be relevant. It's a different category of product.

That's funny, especially considering the MacBook Air is already present. Optical media is dead to Apple and they're pushing flash storage on everything possible. This is only the beginning of the transition which is why you can't see the whole picture yet, but I assure you it's coming and it's coming sooner than you think.

I know it's coming. I've acknowledged it's coming. I just understand the consumer landscape and pricing enough to know it's not as soon as you think.

You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.

I understand the intent of your point, but you have to look at what numbers we have available.

Assume that the 11" air and 13" air cost about the same to produce minus the SSD. (the difference in CPU, housing and LCD costs is likely within $100 for each model).

That means that the $999 and $1599 models' price difference is solely SSD cost. That means they are paying at least $600 for the 256 GB SSD. (I'd be willing to subtract the supposed $100 increase in build costs for the 13", but you have to factor in the base cost of the 64GB drive that we don't know, so I'm assuming it about equals out).

Now look at the 13" pro. Those start at $1199. The HDD is only about $50 in that machine. So, to get a 256GB SSD in that machine, you're looking at $1749. That's higher than the entry level 15". Similarly, the 15" shoots up to $2299 for a 256GB SSD. Those numbers are simply too high for their product line to remain competitively priced, and you'll find that many users would consider 256GB the minimum they need for storage (as many users do in fact rely on a MBP to be a primary machine).

It's coming in the future, the numbers just aren't there yet.

 

[sagnier]

g

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Well you can base those numbers off retail prices but to be honest you really have no idea how much it costs apple to make these ssd's so you can't really say how much it will cost. Apple has always had large margins on upgraded storage space since the iPod. $100 premium each time you want to double the iPad memory is much more than actual cost so obviously apple could lower it to a $25 difference if they wanted to. It's all about how apple wants to proceed on the market and I'm sure all of their analysts and strategists know a lot more than any of us.

Pc laptop sales are falling while mbp sales continue to rise. Apple is very influential and does things the way they want, not how others want them. If they never pushed to get rid of things people would never move on and tech would become much more stagnant. The market can only move as fast as the consumers allow it to.

Sure when apple got rid of the floppy some people were still using them but the rest weren't so for benefit of the industry as a whole they got rid of them and the slow adopters who bitched use externals until the floppy finally dies. Obviously apple is looking to digital distribution and will push for the death of optical media.

Apple are innovators and to be honest the laptop market is going to be at a standstill. Apple can't really go any thinner or change the design of the computer due to physical limitations of two things in the laptop the optical drive and the hard drive. If they were to remove those two items they could change the design of the computer, add battery life and ports and change the landscape of the laptop industry rather than just waiting for new hardware to come out each year to bump the clockspeed of the processor and add some storage to your hdd.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

g

I didn't say the money goes directly back to them. Ya the r and d to design it came out of the pot so they charge a premium for design that also goes back into the pot.

Ya I can accept that a MBA is probably not for you. You just said yourself you want a large hdd, FireWire, and occasionally an optical disc drive. Guess what, apple makes a computer just like that; the current 13" mbp.

Also real world performance is often different than numbers or bench scores. Sure a 2.4 is going to be faster, but at what point does the typical user max put the clockspeed of their processor? Certainly not when browsing the Internet, playing iTunes, editing their iPhoto libraries, etc.

Having a nice big processor like that is going to be beneficial sure, especially if you are compressing lots of data, dealing with hd movie edits, high quality rendering etc, however for most people having more ram would be much more noticeable than a faster processor. I would say at least 80% of computer users would still suffice on a c2d and wouldn't even notice if you gave them a nice brand new quad core processor unless you told them.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Well you can base those numbers off retail prices but to be honest you really have no idea how much it costs apple to make these ssd's so you can't really say how much it will cost. Apple has always had large margins on upgraded storage space since the iPod. $100 premium each time you want to double the iPad memory is much more than actual cost so obviously apple could lower it to a $25 difference if they wanted to. It's all about how apple wants to proceed on the market and I'm sure all of their analysts and strategists know a lot more than any of us.

Yes, but apple has admitted that the MBA is a low margin product. So, to have the price increases I stated, that would be low margin. How much lower do you think they're going to go?

Pc laptop sales are falling while mbp sales continue to rise. Apple is very influential and does things the way they want, not how others want them. If they never pushed to get rid of things people would never move on and tech would become much more stagnant. The market can only move as fast as the consumers allow it to.

Because 1) apple marketshare is still increasing 2) laptop sales are not falling. Desktop sales are. Overall, PC sales still grew last year.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...ments-during-Q4-2010-but-Macs-more/1294882876

Sure when apple got rid of the floppy some people were still using them but the rest weren't so for benefit of the industry as a whole they got rid of them and the slow adopters who bitched use externals until the floppy finally dies. Obviously apple is looking to digital distribution and will push for the death of optical media.

This is fundamentally different though. We're not talking about changing from one readable media format to another. We're talking about eliminating a readable media format entirely. No more music, software, movies, games from a disc or a floppy or anything. That's a big paradigm change to commit to for your entire lineup.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

Well you can base those numbers off retail prices but to be honest you really have no idea how much it costs apple to make these ssd's so you can't really say how much it will cost. Apple has always had large margins on upgraded storage space since the iPod. $100 premium each time you want to double the iPad memory is much more than actual cost so obviously apple could lower it to a $25 difference if they wanted to. It's all about how apple wants to proceed on the market and I'm sure all of their analysts and strategists know a lot more than any of us.

Yes, but apple has admitted that the MBA is a low margin product. So, to have the price increases I stated, that would be low margin. How much lower do you think they're going to go?

Pc laptop sales are falling while mbp sales continue to rise. Apple is very influential and does things the way they want, not how others want them. If they never pushed to get rid of things people would never move on and tech would become much more stagnant. The market can only move as fast as the consumers allow it to.

Because 1) apple marketshare is still increasing 2) laptop sales are not falling. Desktop sales are. Overall, PC sales still grew last year.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...ments-during-Q4-2010-but-Macs-more/1294882876

Sure when apple got rid of the floppy some people were still using them but the rest weren't so for benefit of the industry as a whole they got rid of them and the slow adopters who bitched use externals until the floppy finally dies. Obviously apple is looking to digital distribution and will push for the death of optical media.

This is fundamentally different though. We're not talking about changing from one readable media format to another. We're talking about eliminating a readable media format entirely. No more music, software, movies, games from a disc or a floppy or anything. That's a big paradigm change to commit to for your entire lineup.

I was simply saying you nor I know the numbers so we can't really say if it's feasible or not for apple to do ssd standard. I certainly feel it's possible they add 128gb ssd across the board, maybe 256 in higher up models. Higher cap in bto, I'm not saying they are going to put a 512gb ssd in the 13" and keep the price the same, but it is certainly feasible they go ssd across the board.

I stand corrected, guess I remembered the article wrong!

I see what you are saying, but people realize that media formats must constantly change. It's all just 1s and 0s on a disc, but obviously higher capacity discs will always be needed over time. Would you have thought 10 years ago that the number one music retailer would be iTunes? Apple got rid of the need for a cd drive with the iTunes store, then added videos, now there is a Mac app store which will be installed on all macs and showed to new users. I'm sure most people will be more than comfortable using the simple interface apple has come up with. A universal way to pay and download, don't have to worry about checking for updates, etc. Apple has actually probably made it easier to download a song off iTunes or an app out of the store than it would be for people to put in a disc and rip the song or install a program. With the Mac app store apple got rid of the last need people had for optical disc drives, I would bevmore shocked if they are in the next revision than if they are not

 

[chrmjenkins]

You have to understand that there are groups of people who'll want to keep that physical media around. They absolutely prefer to have their content on a physical disc as opposed to digitally. It gives the feeling of actually 'owning the product' rather than leasing the digital 0's and 1's (though that's how the content providers like to view it). I'm even that way myself sometimes. If there is DLC out for a game, I'd prefer to have a GOTY version that has it on disc. Similarly, most of my music collection is ripped CDs that I bought. I don't want to have to depend on Apple's or Microsoft's servers telling me what I do or do not have the right to own.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

You have to understand that there are groups of people who'll want to keep that physical media around. They absolutely prefer to have their content on a physical disc as opposed to digitally. It gives the feeling of actually 'owning the product' rather than leasing the digital 0's and 1's (though that's how the content providers like to view it). I'm even that way myself sometimes. If there is DLC out for a game, I'd prefer to have a GOTY version that has it on disc. Similarly, most of my music collection is ripped CDs that I bought. I don't want to have to depend on Apple's or Microsoft's servers telling me what I do or do not have the right to own.

And that is why apple will push on without you. The industry as a whole is not going to be put on hold because of some people who still use optical discs. You can be afraid all you want but there is really nothing to fear. A digital copy is just the same as a physical one. And even if servers crash they aren't going to be down forever. Sure maybe once in your life while trying to redowbload something you might be delayed a few hours maybe a day but come on apples servers aren't going to crash and they forget all of the music you purchased and apps you had and everything else.

You fit into the category of people who still think they need an optical disc drive but really you don't. Someday you will be forced to change and will then see. Having your music collection on your Mac, iPod, and a time machine backup would seem a he'll of a lot better than a box full of CDs in your closet.