Entertain me - who, and why?
Musicians? That's, like, 3 customers.
Then I am one of them. Exciting
Entertain me - who, and why?
Musicians? That's, like, 3 customers.
none of this is relevant. it doesn't matter what apple paid for the commodity components. they are going to sell them to you at a substantial mark-up. ssd's are commodity products that apple buys in bulk, just like memory, cpu's, gpu's, and hard drives. look at the bto options - does apple give you a "discounted" price because they good a good price buying a bulk? no! of course not! they charge you even more than the retail price from newegg or wherever. this is not anything new, you just don't understand how it works.
I agree.
Apple is famous for dropping "fading out" peripherals like the floppy drive, which many people here used as an example to show that Apple will drop optical drive in the next MBPs. However, Apple is also famous for adding components only when they are ready for prime time and fits in their margins without significantly changing the price.
That's why they are offering SSD as a BTO option which does not increase their base price.
...osx does not even have trim support to properly use an ssd today...
You are ill informed on TRIM - it's not needed. It's what wannabe geeks talk about IMO. Sounds great. But it's a dead end technologically. Managing flash storage must be the duty of the controller, not the OS. OT here but SSD controllers already do, using a variety of approaches.
If anyone thinks that Apple will be delayed by the Intel Sandy Bridge debacle take a look at the specifics of what was wrong with the faulty chipset. The two highspeed 6Gbps SATA were not effected (channel 0 and 1) only the slower 3Gbps SATA portion was affected. Since Apple only uses 2 SATA connections (the HDD and superdrive) they dont need the others to work, thus no reason to delay the product as the consumer will never know the difference.
Let me guess: No quad-core? Again?
Shame on Apple for neglecting its professional user base. Give me a bulky and ugly-looking laptop (with OS X) instead of a thin, shiny, and fashionable-looking laptop anyday. When the hell did computing start being about fashion and status symbols instead of using the most powerful components available?
First of all, going from 64GB to 128GB is $200, and second of all that isn't the price Apple pays its the price Apple chooses for you to pay. Just like their RAM upgrades that are 4x what you can get from some other seller.
Whether it's an ultra-portable or a notebook is irrelevant. I provided an example as to why it would be possible and you have done nothing to prove otherwise. Apple wants flash storage in all of their machines. The MacBook Air also used to have a HDD so your argument is as flat as can be. Also they have different needs? Last I checked anyone who owns a MBP most definitely wants an SSD over an HDD.
No, they aren't. As can be easily seen when you upgrade a lower end machine to to be closer to that of a higher end machine using Apple's BTO options.
This is the biggest hunk of garbage I've read in this entire thread. For notebook computers flash memory is PERFECT. Apple isn't about low cost, buddy. The storage amount in an SSD is more than enough for a notebook computer.
No, they stated that it was the next generation of MacBooks. I just love how you are stating all of these things as is they are fact. "They are not going to eliminate the optical drive", "flash storage is a pipe dream" without providing any real evidence other than your opinion.
I've provided two examples to back up what I've been saying. One was that of the MacBook Air already has flash storage as default when you are claiming that having flash storage on any machine as baseline is a pipe dream. Then the second being the latest rumor that Apple is removing all physical media from their stores only to add to the move to completely digital via the Mac App Store. You are just wasting my time with your frivolous arguments.
fblack said:A march release would be great, but its still speculation.
I think SSDs are still too expensive for a standard option. Maybe a BTO, but not standard. I also do not want to give up the storage of a 500GB drive for a 128 to 256 SSD. There have also been some new 750GB drives released for laptops. I wouldn't mind one of those. And no I wouldn't want an SSD and an external larger drive as some have suggested, that for me defeats the whole "portability" aspect of laptops.
As far as getting rid of the optical drive, well I don't want that to happen. I still use my optical drive plenty thank you very much. Maybe in another 2-3 years it will be a different story for me, but not now.
chrmjenkins said:Honestly at this point I'd just call you a troll who has no idea what he's talking about but I guess I'll respond anyway. Whether it's an ultra-portable or a notebook is irrelevant. I provided an example as to why it would be possible and you have done nothing to prove otherwise.
Of course it's possible, it doesn't make business sense. Why don't you try and address the question rather than deflecting with personal attacks?
Apple wants flash storage in all of their machines. The MacBook Air also used to have a HDD so your argument is as flat as can be. Also they have different needs? Last I checked anyone who owns a MBP most definitely wants an SSD over an HDD.
Of course they do, because SSD is Apple's vision of the future for notebooks. Most consumers want them too because they're faster, use less power and are resistant to drops.
But everyone still has to live in the real world. SSDs don't have enough storage space for a lot of consumers, and many consumers don't want to pay the huge $/GB premium that comes with them. Apple has to deal with this fact by base-lining their MBPs with a traditional HDD. This also makes them cost competitive. (which we'll get to later).
No, they aren't. As can be easily seen when you upgrade a lower end machine to to be closer to that of a higher end machine using Apple's BTO options.
Those models usually have fundamental differences such as different amounts of VRAM or an entirely different enclosure which doesn't make it a fair comparison. Basically, Apple designs a notebook to hit a certain margin and then prices BTO options to hit other margins. Whether or not these BTO upgrades reflect actual real world prices is seemingly arbitrary. If you disagree, provide a specific example.
This is the biggest hunk of garbage I've read in this entire thread. For notebook computers flash memory is PERFECT. Apple isn't about low cost, buddy. The storage amount in an SSD is more than enough for a notebook computer.
Is more than enough? OK, provide me some numbers from a random study with a sample size of at least 1000 showing that the vast majority would be fine being limited to 256 GB of hard drive space. Otherwise, you're spouting baseless opinion. My argument is also helped by the fact that no one else in this thread agrees with you.
Apple is about lowering costs because over the past few years, the cost of the MBP has gone down to appeal to a wider market.
No, they stated that it was the next generation of MacBooks. I just love how you are stating all of these things as is they are fact. "They are not going to eliminate the optical drive", "flash storage is a pipe dream" without providing any real evidence other than your opinion.
If you're specifically splicing words out of my statement, it doesn't look good for your argument. I clearly stated that flash storage as a baseline for MBPs is a pipe dream in the near future. The same for optical drives. I gave logical reasons for each of these citing consumer needs and cost. If you can't digest that logic, I can't help you.
I've provided two examples to back up what I've been saying. One was that of the MacBook Air already has flash storage as default when you are claiming that having flash storage on any machine as baseline is a pipe dream.
Nope, made no such claim.
Then the second being the latest rumor that Apple is removing all physical media from their stores only to add to the move to completely digital via the Mac App Store. You are just wasting my time with your frivolous arguments.
To make room for more profitable merchandise. No comment was made on how they'd accommodate the software that has yet to be released in the Mac App Store, with no guarantee of this happening. If apple removed the optical drive from all of their notebooks, hordes of fanatics would be breathing hellfire about how they have to pay for an external drive that is inconvenient and bulky. Apple could do a fork off to a MBP with no optical drive, but there is going to be a MBP with an optical drive for a good while.
Although TDP is 10W higher on quad cores, the figure represents worst case scenario. In most of the real world scenarios, battery life and heat dissipation will be less than current generation MBP.
While that is absolutely true, I don't know whether Apple is wanting to maintain a large TDP margin, hold on to every last ounce of precious battery life, or just avoid MBPs having quad cores whereas some of their desktops don't. In any event, come Haswell they won't have a choice.
Apple buys in bulk, the price the receive an SSD at is much lower than what a consumer can buy for individually.
Entertain me - who, and why?
Musicians? That's, like, 3 customers.
Film professionals? They have the cash to upgrade to 512GB Flash. Or even 1TB. Look at what they pay for a camera! Compared to the cost of these professionals' other gear, 1TB of Flash storage would be nothing.
The average Joe makes up most of Apple's customers - the average consumer, if you will. They watch YouTube, stream Netflix maybe, do email and Facebook, listen to music, and that's about it. The average consumer doesn't even know what bittorrent is, and will buy 3 movies on iTunes before realizing that it's crazy expensive.
If there are "lots of people" needing more than 300GB - I don't see them. As a programmer, I certainly don't need more. IDEs and dev tools are getting fatter, but they still only make up a few GB.
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You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.
lmao, no way. next mbp will be traditional platter hard drive. end of story. osx does not even have trim support to properly use an ssd today. plus they would not be foolish enough to put flash memory system drive in the mbp. i don't want a 15" or 17" macbook air - which is what you are proposing - and neither does anyone else.
sagnier said:Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)
You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.
come on, not really though eh? matching screen size and storage (the only examples of similar hardware, and which can only be done when you compare the top end mba with the baseline mbp!), you're paying 25% more for the mba, as well as losing 0.5mhz in cpu speed, firewire, optical.
a 'decently specd' flash-only mbp already exists - its called the macbook air. what other differences do you imagine there will be, come the revision?
This is wrong on so many levels. They can offer the SSD as a standard on the 13" and 11" Air so they can offer them on on their other notebooks. We aren't talking about other computer manufacturers, everyone knows Apple doesn't follow the status quo for better or for worse. You keep saying they can't after I'm proving you an example of the MBA then you write it off as "HURR DURR ULTRA PORTABLE NOT PRO"
They've been offering flash storage while lowering the prices which means their margins were so high that they could do both. This isn't rocket science and the same will be able to happen to the MBP.
LOL, because you don't believe me? Heaven forbid you're actually wrong on something. But fine, you asked for a current example and I'll give you one. Go to the current 8-core Mac Pro > Select "Two 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores)" > Compare price with the default 12 core Mac Pro. If you want I can find you a video of the early 2009 iMac upgrade options for insult to injury.
Riddle me this: Why do people buy a 12 pack box of cereals instead of buying all 12 individually?
So you are claiming you know what consumers want. Where's the survey?
Sorry, this doesn't work. You simply claimed it was a dream and provided no evidence to back up your claim while I offered the MBA as the counter argument.
That's funny, especially considering the MacBook Air is already present. Optical media is dead to Apple and they're pushing flash storage on everything possible. This is only the beginning of the transition which is why you can't see the whole picture yet, but I assure you it's coming and it's coming sooner than you think.
You are basing your argument on the prices of ssd's. Apple doesn't use a traditional ssd in the MacBook air they custom made them and said they are much cheaper than a traditional ssd. Why would you think apple wouldn't do the same with the mbp so trying to argue with the other guy about prices of ssd making this impossible is pointless because apple is getting these parts for a lot cheaper than you think. Almost all products apple makes from ipads, iPhones, iPods, atv, etc use some sort of flash storage. No reason to think apple couldn't put together a decently specd mbp for the same price with an ssd. Look at the MBA. Similar hardware wise to the current mbp and around the same price points.
sagnier said:
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Well you can base those numbers off retail prices but to be honest you really have no idea how much it costs apple to make these ssd's so you can't really say how much it will cost. Apple has always had large margins on upgraded storage space since the iPod. $100 premium each time you want to double the iPad memory is much more than actual cost so obviously apple could lower it to a $25 difference if they wanted to. It's all about how apple wants to proceed on the market and I'm sure all of their analysts and strategists know a lot more than any of us.
Pc laptop sales are falling while mbp sales continue to rise. Apple is very influential and does things the way they want, not how others want them. If they never pushed to get rid of things people would never move on and tech would become much more stagnant. The market can only move as fast as the consumers allow it to.
Sure when apple got rid of the floppy some people were still using them but the rest weren't so for benefit of the industry as a whole they got rid of them and the slow adopters who bitched use externals until the floppy finally dies. Obviously apple is looking to digital distribution and will push for the death of optical media.
chrmjenkins said:Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)
Well you can base those numbers off retail prices but to be honest you really have no idea how much it costs apple to make these ssd's so you can't really say how much it will cost. Apple has always had large margins on upgraded storage space since the iPod. $100 premium each time you want to double the iPad memory is much more than actual cost so obviously apple could lower it to a $25 difference if they wanted to. It's all about how apple wants to proceed on the market and I'm sure all of their analysts and strategists know a lot more than any of us.
Yes, but apple has admitted that the MBA is a low margin product. So, to have the price increases I stated, that would be low margin. How much lower do you think they're going to go?
Pc laptop sales are falling while mbp sales continue to rise. Apple is very influential and does things the way they want, not how others want them. If they never pushed to get rid of things people would never move on and tech would become much more stagnant. The market can only move as fast as the consumers allow it to.
Because 1) apple marketshare is still increasing 2) laptop sales are not falling. Desktop sales are. Overall, PC sales still grew last year.
http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...ments-during-Q4-2010-but-Macs-more/1294882876
Sure when apple got rid of the floppy some people were still using them but the rest weren't so for benefit of the industry as a whole they got rid of them and the slow adopters who bitched use externals until the floppy finally dies. Obviously apple is looking to digital distribution and will push for the death of optical media.
This is fundamentally different though. We're not talking about changing from one readable media format to another. We're talking about eliminating a readable media format entirely. No more music, software, movies, games from a disc or a floppy or anything. That's a big paradigm change to commit to for your entire lineup.
chrmjenkins said:You have to understand that there are groups of people who'll want to keep that physical media around. They absolutely prefer to have their content on a physical disc as opposed to digitally. It gives the feeling of actually 'owning the product' rather than leasing the digital 0's and 1's (though that's how the content providers like to view it). I'm even that way myself sometimes. If there is DLC out for a game, I'd prefer to have a GOTY version that has it on disc. Similarly, most of my music collection is ripped CDs that I bought. I don't want to have to depend on Apple's or Microsoft's servers telling me what I do or do not have the right to own.