Best Buy Seeing HP TouchPad Sell-Through Rate of Under 10%

[Zepaw]

My main concern with Android devices, just as with Windows Mobile and Symbian, etc. since the past, has been with the manufacturer abandoning their older devices, or not providing enough updates and upgrades.
And Nokia, HTC, Sony-Ericsson have proven to me that their commitment to their current models will not really last much.

Agreed completely. 2-year contract is the US standard and you are lucky if the manufacturer will be supporting your Android a year out.

 

[StyxMaker]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)

but it doesn't have flash!

"But he doesn't know the territory."

 

[krburrell]

Drop it to $99 and I think it may take off.

 

[Mr Fusion]

Hmm, this seems almost like the exact reverse from my experience and I have worked with technical support for both Apple and HP (the same company provides the phone support for them in my country)

Support eligibility:
HP: No official limit on how long support is provided for a product.
Apple: 30 days or three years with the expensive AppleCare. A very expensive per-case fee is also available.

Warranty and service options:
HP: Free pick-up, service and return of in-warranty products
Apple: No Apple Stores in my country, you have to bring the product to an AASP yourself. How you get it to the AASP is your problem (and there are remote locations in my country that are 70+ km from the nearest AASP). The only exception is for desktop products with AppleCare, they get pick-up and return.

My country also has three years consumer law, which means that a product that had defects from the start that manifests themselves within three years has to be repaired or replaced for free.
At HP we basically granted this no questions asked instead of arguing with the customer (side note: I once called Acer on behalf of my mother and they even recommended me to claim this for an out-of-warranty failed HARD DRIVE without me even mentioning it first) while Apple demands that the product is inspected by one of their own AASP's and their word is the final word on the matter.

And those AASP, bah, way to often are they unaware of Apple's policies, give customers incorrect information, blabb to customers about internal, confidential procedures, set expectations way to high, don't even know how to repair the products etc. And they're supposed to be authorized by Apple...

Cool! Had you handled my case, HP wouldn't have lost me as a customer.

 

[nylonsteel]

re original article

i'll take an hp tablet - if its free

 

[VitaminD]

Microsoft and its OEM partners.



Microsoft and its OEM partners.



Microsoft and its OEM partners.

Proof ? There you go :

Though, I'm thinking that iPad sales to non-Mac owners have increased interest in Apple's other product lines. Perhaps that is part of the impetus for making OS X Lion more iOS like.

While Windows PC has obviously "won" the PC wars, I believe a second round is on the horizon as people reevaluate their computing needs. Much of those needs can be addressed by less cumbersome devices and devices that can aptly handle the majority of multimedia and social networking needs. Apple is currently poised to take the lead in that arena. Windows though, will put up an strong fight with Windows 8. But their strength or weakness relies in their hardware partners ability to manufacturer hardware which addresses consumer need and desire.

As for myself, I took an interest in Apple products starting with the iPod and then when looking for a powerful All-in-One computer, there was nothing that came close to fitting the bill like the 27" iMac. But had I not been impressed with the iPod's quality and functionality (and because of BootCamp), I doubt I would have looked at Mac considering that I need Windows because of the business software I use has no Mac OS equivalent - not by a long shot.

But I happily run OS X, Windows 7 and Linux Mint on my iMacs not having an unnecessarily irrational need to be loyal to any OS. But rather using the right tool for the job mentality.

 

[LagunaSol]

As soon as these things hit $50, I'm going to buy a bunch of them to hang on my walls as digital photo frames.

 

[StyxMaker]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)

This is bad news, not good news. Apple needs competition for them to give two-craps about improving their products.

They're not going to get any worthy competition from HP. If you've owned an HP product and had issues with it like me, you'd understand.

Their customer service is a joke, even at the highest levels. After the VERY rigid 14-day return window, you can't walk into an HP Store and have someone take care of you and ship it away for repair... No, your first point of contact is a person at a call center in Bangalore reading from a card. Once they're done wasting your time on hold, you get to ship the product in ON YOUR OWN DIME. They at least send you a box.. Golly how nice of them!

My "warranty repair" was embarrassing: It came back in a dirty bag with scratches all over the surface and stripped screws on the inside. Three rungs up the customer service ladder had me in San Jose with a man who was literally yelling at ME (and thus me yelling right back) before I had heard enough, said "go **** yourself" and hung up the phone.

Just one more complaint for the BBB, and one less customer for HP products.

I give Apple a lot of crap, but those jokers at HP don't stand a chance at "competing" with them. Their only hope is to sucker in a handful of customers who are new to them to make a quick buck off a new product.

...And judging by sales numbers... Mission Accomplished!

Compared to my sister walking into an Apple store with her (barely) out of warranty iPad that had suddenly stopped working in the 3G mode, and walking out with a new one.

 

[VitaminD]

As soon as these things hit $50, I'm going to buy a bunch of them to hang on my walls as digital photo frames.

Actually, not a bad idea.

 

[mijail]

Hmm, this seems almost like the exact reverse from my experience and I have worked with technical support for both Apple and HP (...)

Cool story, but... My experience in my country (Spain): the only HP laptop we ever bought "lost" its wifi capabilities about 1 year after buying it (the caps lock LED had stopped working long ago and some keys in the keyboard had lost their letters already, but we didn't care too much about that). The technical support people did their job (legally they had to), but I had to push a number of times along the way because they kept losing the computer or forgetting what the problem was. It took about 3 weeks, if I remember correctly, and some serious cursing.

Meanwhile, the Apple technical support... I only had to call them once after 4 different macs (15 years). The battery of a white macbook was seriously swelling after about 310 cycles. They simply refused to do anything with batteries with more than 300 cycles. Nasty, but I don't know if I can really complain; the computer had more than 3 years by then and hadn't had a quiet life by any measure. That computer also had by then the problem of the self-destructing "palmrest", and support changed all the interior surfaces (not only the broken one) free of charge (but yes, I had to take it there and leave it for a couple of days).

So... yes, Apple support could have done more (change the battery). But even like it is, I can't see how I could prefer HP.

The best support is the one you don't need, I guess. And maybe that also has some influence on how difficult it is to get support: possibly HP support was more used to see/fix failures than Apple's, if only by judging by my experience. Although of course surely there were also more HP's than Macs...

 

[Alchemist42]

Google doesn't charge for Android. if they did the handsets would all be more expensive and people wouldn't be buying them.

Thats a big part of it. Android is being used because its the best FREE choice. Thats why there are so many chinese knock off tablets and phones out there too. Google has money, they want mindshare and that was pretty much the only way they would get where they are.

Unfortunately it also fragments things as each vendor can customize their OS to be different but the end result is your never quite sure what the experience will be like with android.

 

[linux2mac]

As soon as these things hit $50, I'm going to buy a bunch of them to hang on my walls as digital photo frames.

Awesome!

BTW - What happened to your sig? "Friends don't let friends wallow in windows misery!" That was great!!

 

[silentnite]

Sad to say but all these other tablets are headed to the same place as Microsoft's Zune. I think the first thing these competitors need to do is price these tablets correctly. They are all at least $100 over what they should be.

 

[Young Spade]

I think the non iPad tablet manufacturers have been too greedy with pricing from the start. People expect an Apple device to be priced at the upper end of a market. But when people see the likes of Acer, Motorola, RIM, HP and Asus charging pretty much the same as apple, model for model, then all that happens is they make the iPad look good value. And that's down to Apple's aggressive pricing of iPads IMO, they knew the others would struggle to make a profitable tablet for the same retail price, especially with their tiny revenue from content purchase. Hell they could sell iPads at half the price and still make a huge wedge from the app store.

That's what happens when Apple has their own stores. They don't have to pay to have their products take up floor space and, on top of that, they don't have to worry about other stores displaying their products in the back of the stoor or where they won't have enough foot traffic.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by those that still claim the tablet is a fad. Apple has sold tens of millions of these things worldwide, soon to be hundreds of millions. That's not a fad or something cool, that's an evolution.

Want vs need? Ok, I'll buy that but I can't believe how much the iPad has suited, even changed my lifestyle. I rarely watch television anymore, I'm reading more than I ever have now from scads of different books to my fill of world news. I can keep in constant touch with the night shift I manage, all on the same device.

I still prefer to do spreadsheets, etc on my iMac but the iPad can do pretty much everything else and I'm sure it will continue to grow in usability.

No, this is not a fad or just a cool thing, this is progress.

It is pretty crazy isn't it? Sometimes I think back and wonder why I sold my iPad... but hey, I have a laptop now so I don't really need it. It would be more convenient to just use the iPad around the house or whatever but, as a college student, I don't really have the money to just go nd buy random electronic devices.

But I can completely see what some people mean when they say the iPad is a fad. Yea it's a great device that can do a lot of things, however, how much "work" can you really do on it? You can type documents and blog posts but you can't really compose a research paper on it.

You can't open zip files, manage files on it, nor can you run programs; they have a lot of apps but they are just that, apps.

Of course, this is from people who dont' think they'll benefit from one and can't see how others can.

Thats a big part of it. Android is being used because its the best FREE choice. Thats why there are so many chinese knock off tablets and phones out there too. Google has money, they want mindshare and that was pretty much the only way they would get where they are.

Unfortunately it also fragments things as each vendor can customize their OS to be different but the end result is your never quite sure what the experience will be like with android.

YOu say that like you can't just go and order a pure Google phone. It isn't all bad, just some phones that are, mainly, on the lower end. If you buy a top tier Android phone it will either come with stock Gingerbread or a skin that isn't that obtrusive.

 

[imageWIS]

Sad to say but all these other tablets are headed to the same place as Microsoft's Zune. I think the first thing these competitors need to do is price these tablets correctly. They are all at least $100 over what they should be.

I bet the though process at HP was: if we price our tablet lower than the iPad, then people will think its not as good. Guess what? It isn't.

 

[RobertMartens]

I'd be too scared to buy an HP TouchPad because who knows if it'll be around in a year or two.

Consumers know there will be support and new apps for their iPads and Android tablets years down the road.

These products are only supposed to be used for a year or two
I don't see that as being a big issue

I see iPhones pushing people to iPads
And iPads pushing people to iPhones
And both pushing people to MacBook Pros
And everyone buying apps and songs
What a happy happy world

 

[divinox]

Sorry to just pick up your post - so tell me now: How do you feel about the news, that Apple's EU-wide injunction is NOT VALID. Yeah - it's not posted here, as it may dry out the RDF:

Check here

Oh - and look at this shameless UI copy called Honeycomb. Face it - iPad is a fashion victim stuff. As are tablets in general. There is no post PC era.

Face it - iPhone5 has to be a blast, or Apple will be loosing customers big style. In my household there will be a iPhone5 for my not so tech savy wife. I'll go with whatever Nokia presents on WP7 or the Optimus 3D within the next months.

I'm no tablet guy - but if I'd ever get a tablet you can rest assured that it will not be an iPad - as Honeycomb runs circles around it. And that's why Apple has to pull all these dirty legal tricks - to keep your RDF up.

Go educate yourself and play with a GalaxyTab, Acer Iconia or LG OptimusPad. And then start again how the iPad will be the be-all-end-all of tablets. It won't. Get over it!

On topic: I just believe that this extremely shows how little market there is for tablets. Most people don't need it - and those who do rather get that fashionable, magical iPad.

This. Pads may be great things to have, but at current prices - well - people are understandably hesitant. When tech catches up, and we can have solid devices at affordable prices then the market is sure to go boom. Until then, total market will be what it is - small.

edit: Ok, i know that you Americans are spoiled with cheap-cheap tech, but the rest of us arent - and even at "cheap-cheap" levels, its not that cheap in the end.

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I've said it before,any tablet without the APP Store= FAIL, NO ONE will ever come close.
ITunes was the foreshadower of the App Store, soon, IOS and OSX, as well as iTunes and the App Store will be one,no one will have anything close. Apple is poised to take over the Computer market,leaving everyone in the dust, including Microsoft. Their stock is poised for 500, and beyond.

No one will have anything close? Other than the fact that W8 is just around the corner? That WP Apollo is likely to mean full convergence?

 

[diamond.g]

I signed up as an HP WebOS developer and HP expects developers to pony up too many dollars up front. Many of us are small one or two developer businesses and I personally don't have the money to throw at something just to try it. If I am going to spend the time to learn the API, they could offer a better deal on hardware. HP expects you to already have multiple apps developed before they give any significant break on hardware price.

Of course, Apple offers no hardware discount and charges to be a developer. That's the difference between a successful device in the marketplace with customers vs. something that has little marketshare and few customers (e.g. WebOS devices). Hello... HP?

How much does HP want for developer program? AFAIK Apple has always charged 99USD to be a iOS developer.

 

[haruhiko]

Everyone needs a phone. But not everyone needs a tablet. That's why Google and its partners cannot quickly replicate the Android "success" in tablets.

 

[divinox]

I fear Google will find themselves in a very difficult position with this one. By open-sourcing Android, effectively they no longer control 2.x. They can not stop it from being available and they can not stop it from being used. Furthermore, as it is open source, anybody can develop it in their own direction (i.e. fork it).

Consider the following examples from PC history:

In the early '80s there were dozens of incompatible PCs out there. None was made by IBM, which was a major player in the mainframe market, and wanted a slice of the PC market. They brought out a PC at a low price point after a short development time and achieved a dominant market share. They achieved this by using overwhelmingly off the shelf hardware and 3rd party software (MS DOS in particular). This dominant position and weakly controlled architecture allowed any number of clones into the market. Companies like Compaq reverse engineered the small number of non-standard components, bought everything else off the shelf, including the OS, and marketed a 100% IBM compatible computer, at a lower price. Realising they were losing market share, IBM decided to switch to a new OS, namely OS/2, effectively shutting out the cheap clones and regaining market share. Instead what happened was the large installed user base of old IBM machines and clones remained dominant, and OS/2 failed to gain any market share. IBM is now no longer even in the PC business (sold to Lenovo).

In the second half of the '90s, apart from a few Mac hold outs, pretty much every PC sold ran Windows. We all knew that Windows was a load of rubbish ('95, '98 and particularly ME), so when newer versions came out, everyone upgraded to the new version. When a well established, stable, usable version was finally achieved with XP, development slowed, and it became dominant. When MS tried to get everyone to move on to the next version, Vista, and now Windows 7, a very large number of people had no desire to move on, and because of the large installed user base of XP, it remains the dominant OS. If a software developer wants to sell their software, they have to make it work with XP.

So what does this have to do with Android? At present, Google is in a position like IBM was at the beginning of the 1990s. They do not control the hardware (the standard Android phone is not a concept controlled by Google), and they do not control the OS (because it's open source, anybody can do whatever they want with 2.x). OEMs like 2.x because they can control and customise the OS in ways that suit them. Even if a large number of new phones come out with 4.x on them, the user base will still be dominated by 2.x users (the Windows XP problem, exacerbated by the fact that a significant number of current handsets can not be upgraded without the users rooting them). Developers will therefore need to continue to support 2.x in their apps if they want to reach the bulk of the user base.

The problem is this: Google can not force an upgrade from 2.3, in the same way that IBM could not force an upgrade to OS/2. Because it is open source, OEMs can continue to install 2.3 (and modify it as much as they like, effectively forking Android), and there is nothing Google can do to prevent this. More importantly, the talk of adding restrictions to how OEMs and networks are allowed to implement 4.x provides a positive disincentive to the OEMs adopting it. Old users won't (in many cases can't) upgrade, so developers continue to support the old standard. OEMs lose commercial freedom by upgrading, and the need to support the existing user base severely limits the uptake of new functionality by developers (diluting the "pull" factors for users to upgrade).

The net result here is either further fragmentation (several forks of Android), stagnation (everyone sticks with 2.3 or 100% compatibles) or Google backs down on its attempts to enforce user experience (by open sourcing new versions). None of these is particularly good for the end user, IMO.

And people still get upset when i say that MSFT will dominate (the converged market) a few years from now. Clearly, Apple will not fill that role (unless they change route completely), and Android, well... like i said the other day, its Android.

(Great post! To be fair though Google has some power, their services (MSFT can fill that role though). Second, theyre all in the same boat. As such, if they stick with Android they will play ball in the premium segment at least)

----------

But what you miss is that, historically, that turned out to be the first "War" and we are currently in the 2nd "World War" if you will. Microsoft hung its hat on making software for everyone else's hardware, and offering no substantial hardware of their own. Now, people are making hardware that can run Linux, Google, or Apple products (and plenty more). Microsoft won round one a decade ago, but now it is wallowing in failed products like former Vista, the Zune and more. XBox has been their only real success (despite the embarrassing RROD), and that faces increasing pressure from Nintendo and Sony as well as the growing capabilities of hand-held gaming. Who sells more phones, Apple or MS, . . . . more laptops, more tablets, more desktops, more music players? Ask Steve that same question today, his answer may be different then the one you drag up from 15 years ago. That's like the dinosaur age in the world of electronics.

W7 is great. WP7 shows great potential. W8 is promising. Second, the epic fail argument is quite weak considering Apple history.

And... like you said, MSFT sells software. As for laptops and desktops theyre still number one, by far.

 

[Young Spade]

Everyone needs a phone. But not everyone needs a tablet. That's why Google and its partners cannot quickly replicate the Android "success" in tablets.

I think price is the main factor. Nobody want to spend that much on a tablet when you can get a better laptop for the same price.

 

[E.Lizardo]

Apple has not caught up with demand.

The international rollout of the iPad 2 is not yet complete nor is the iPad 2 offered in all markets that want it (same with the iPhone).

Only after the iPhone and iPad are sold in all of the markets that the iPods are sold in -- with no availability issues -- could one state that Apple has caught up with demand.

Thanks for sharing your own personal definition.

 

[VitaminD]

I think price is the main factor. Nobody want to spend that much on a tablet when you can get a better laptop for the same price.

I don't know about that considering how many millions of tablets have been sold.

While you can get a Windows notebook or netbook for the same price, you can't achieve the portability, ease of use and battery life of a tablet. So that's the trade off of a tablet versus a notebook/netbook.

 

[StyxMaker]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1)

Sad to say but all these other tablets are headed to the same place as Microsoft's Zune. I think the first thing these competitors need to do is price these tablets correctly. They are all at least $100 over what they should be.

The drawer where my old Zune is stored isn't big enough to hold all these other devices.

 

[Mr Fusion]

Compared to my sister walking into an Apple store with her (barely) out of warranty iPad that had suddenly stopped working in the 3G mode, and walking out with a new one.

Exactly. I have many similar stories of my own. It's what happens when customer service hasn't been horse collared by management, and a company cares about return business.