Best PCI Upgrades for a PowerMac G4

[MicroTecture]

Hello all,

I decided to make this post here because I was interested in knowing what some of you have used in terms of PCI upgrades for a PowerMac G4 AGP. I have a PowerMac G4 Digital Audio with an upgraded GPU with no populated PCI cards at the moment. I'm wondering what would be some good PCI card upgrades I could add to this PowerMac.

I am interested in knowing what some of you people have populating your PCI slots in your PowerMac machines.
I hope that this post could be of help as well for other people who are wondering the same as well.

Thanks!

 

[Spock]

Can't go wrong with a SCISI card

 

[TheShortTimer]

A USB 2.0 card is a must (make sure that the card has an NEC chipset) and a FireWire 800 card also comes in handy.

 

[AlumaMac]

I‘d go with a hardware RAID card to run a RAID 5 array. I believe Highpoint (maybe also Sonnet?) had one for PCI bus back then.

 

[eyoungren]

Two additional GPUs (on top of the AGP video card), PCI-SATA card (4 connections), Firewire 400/800 card, USB 2.0 card.

 

[MacFoxG4]

I have a USB 2.0 card and a Gigabit Ethernet card in my AGP graphics PM G4. I highly recommend getting a USB 2.0 card. The one I have is a Staples branded card I got off eBay. I have a FireWire 800 card in there too, though it doesn’t currently work.

 

[eyoungren]

…and a Gigabit Ethernet card in my AGP graphics PM G4.

Oh, I should have brought that up so thanks for mentioning it!

With another NIC card you can run dual ethernet connections. I have a G4 set up this way. Both connections have static IP addresses and I have my other Macs/PCs connect to it using the address for the Gigabit card.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I am interested in knowing what some of you people have populating your PCI slots in your PowerMac machines.
I hope that this post could be of help as well for other people who are wondering the same as well.

Thanks!

Sonnet Tango USB2/FW400
Generic USB2 card -> BT dongle on internal usb port
Adaptec USB2 -> BT dongle on internal usb port
Flashed Sil3512 Sata controller -> Software raid0 OSX 10.5.8
Acard Sata Controller -> OS9
ATI Radeon 7000 -> Powermac g3 B&W
Dynex Wireless G wifi

 

[MicroTecture]

Two additional GPUs (on top of the AGP video card), PCI-SATA card (4 connections), Firewire 400/800 card, USB 2.0 card.

This seems pretty interesting, two additional GPUs along with an AGP GPU?
What GPUs are those and what are you using them for that make them worth using two PCI slots?
I saw ActionRetro made a video on a PCI SATA card and apparently it's slower than IDE? How do speeds work out on your PowerMac compared to IDE compared with a PCI SATA card?

 

[eyoungren]

This seems pretty interesting, two additional GPUs along with an AGP GPU?
What GPUs are those and what are you using them for that make them worth using two PCI slots?
I saw ActionRetro made a video on a PCI SATA card and apparently it's slower than IDE? How do speeds work out on your PowerMac compared to IDE compared with a PCI SATA card?

I had a Quicksilver G4 and was using a Radeon 9200 and a 7000. I had an NVIDIA AGP card, but the model escapes me at the moment.

Quite honestly the reason I was using them was to have 'better' than the Mac I used at work. The Mac (a 2010 MacPro) at work had one video card with three displays. So, I naturally had to have six displays at home. With the G4 that meant three video cards.

That's been passed on to a 2.3 DC G5 and a Quad G5 and now to a MacPro. Only my MacPro uses just two cards for that now.

Over time I've worked out what displays I use for what. It's nice because I can have one display for Finder windows, one for browser windows, one for music apps, another for my email app and the others for anything else. I can spread InDesign or QuarkXPress documents across two 30" monitors and using split view (InDesign) have two views of the same document on two displays, but within one window. QuarkXPress will split out the document into one window on each monitor. This allows me to be working on different parts of the document depending on which display I'm working on. Other stuff like that with Photoshop and Illustrator, and Word. Word is particularly useful to put on it's own display. You can reference it will working on something else in a different app.

So, yeah, it was worth two PCI slots for me - it's what I wanted. For other, people, probably not so much. I do enjoy the "OMG!" expressions I get when people see six displays connected to one computer though, so there's that too.

No idea about ActionRetro, I just do my own thing. You're never going to get full SATA speeds because the PCI bus isn't as fast as that. But I've never felt that my copy speeds were slower than IDE. And there are no 2TB, 3TB and 4TB IDE hard drives. My 500mhz G4, which has a PCI SATA card has a 250GB boot drive and two 3TB SATA drives. My G3, which is my server, has a 2TB RAID attached via eSATA. None of that is possible with IDE drives.

 

[MicroTecture]

I had a Quicksilver G4 and was using a Radeon 9200 and a 7000. I had an NVIDIA AGP card, but the model escapes me at the moment.

Quite honestly the reason I was using them was to have 'better' than the Mac I used at work. The Mac (a 2010 MacPro) at work had one video card with three displays. So, I naturally had to have six displays at home. With the G4 that meant three video cards.

That's been passed on to a 2.3 DC G5 and a Quad G5 and now to a MacPro. Only my MacPro uses just two cards for that now.

Over time I've worked out what displays I use for what. It's nice because I can have one display for Finder windows, one for browser windows, one for music apps, another for my email app and the others for anything else. I can spread InDesign or QuarkXPress documents across two 30" monitors and using split view (InDesign) have two views of the same document on two displays, but within one window. QuarkXPress will split out the document into one window on each monitor. This allows me to be working on different parts of the document depending on which display I'm working on. Other stuff like that with Photoshop and Illustrator, and Word. Word is particularly useful to put on it's own display. You can reference it will working on something else in a different app.

So, yeah, it was worth two PCI slots for me - it's what I wanted. For other, people, probably not so much. I do enjoy the "OMG!" expressions I get when people see six displays connected to one computer though, so there's that too.

No idea about ActionRetro, I just do my own thing. You're never going to get full SATA speeds because the PCI bus isn't as fast as that. But I've never felt that my copy speeds were slower than IDE. And there are no 2TB, 3TB and 4TB IDE hard drives. My 500mhz G4, which has a PCI SATA card has a 250GB boot drive and two 3TB SATA drives. My G3, which is my server, has a 2TB RAID attached via eSATA. None of that is possible with IDE drives.

Yeah, I saw several videos about PCI SATA on a PowerMac G4 and I saw ActionRetro's video and he got slower speeds through his PCI SATA card than on IDE (he did a benchmark test on it). He used an SSD with his tests (I wonder if his SSD has DRAM cache on it).

I might look into it some more and see. I bought some more RAM for my PowerMac G4 so I can get it maxed out. I wonder if anything as fast as the 7800 GS exists for PCI.

I saw a ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 PCI go around (some of the prices for this card I find strange). I'd wonder if this card would work on a PowerMac G4 under Linux (there's no way PowerPC macOS X Leopard or below is going to support a GT 610). Wonder if anyone has tried it.

I just also noticed a PCIE to PCI adapter to plug in PCIE devices into PCI. Assuming that works under Linux, theoretically you could use a slightly more modern AMD GPU like an HD 5450 for example and have GPU acceleration in Linux.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Im a fan of DDR 64mb Radeon 7000 pci cards. they're reasonably powered, supports core image, you can still find them for under $30 shipped and come in all sorts of neat & useful i/o configs and you can flash them with ATI flashing tool within OSX gui. I like PCI sata controllers not so much for the speed but for the large drive support on old boxes like a B&W for example. Per Eriks post, the PCI slot sort of neuters their full potential.

Best of luck to you.

 

[ervus]

I have a FW800 card, a wifi card, and a USB2 card. A SATA card would be my next one but I don't have a way to flash one and the IDE-to-SATA adapters are working for me so far...

 

[MicroTecture]

I have a FW800 card, a wifi card, and a USB2 card. A SATA card would be my next one but I don't have a way to flash one and the IDE-to-SATA adapters are working for me so far...

I read around, did my own research and even saw a Reddit post of a guy with a Sawtooth with a PCI-X SATA card with an SIL3124 chip.

I'll have to recall which firmware he used that was compatible with a 3rd party PCI SATA card (made just for PowerPC Macs). That guy got good results though.

Now, I'm on the hunt for a PCI-X 64-bit PCI SATA card. PCI-X is backwards compatible but as far as I know the PCI lanes in the Power Mac G4's are 64-bit PCI which is a great benefit and paired with a PCI-X 64-bit card could bring huge performance gains, that is if you can find one with an SIL3124.

I could be completely wrong mind you.

Be careful, I think there are a few SIL3124's out there that are not PCI-X.

IDE to SATA adapters might be a good route for now.
I might get SIL3112 PCI card (not PCI-X) and check out the performance results. ActionRetro said it was worse than a SATA to IDE, but I would like to see how it plays out under my G4 PowerMac.

I could do tests like startup tests, file copy tests, benchmarks, you name it.
Maybe even Linux tests to see as well.

I wonder if DRAM cache (or possibly lack there of) on his SSD could play a difference between these adapters.
SATA has HUGE advantages over IDE.

 

[ITzTravelInTime]

I just ported the kx audio driver to os x leopard and tiger server, so you can consider upgrading the sound to a sound blaster live or audigy card (amoung the models that are supported by the kx audio driver) and it will give you 24 bit 192 khz (on an sb augy series card) or 16 bit 192 khz on a sb live card and also support for 5.1 or 7.1 on some cards. This is a very good upgrade over the on board audio and the sb live cards also have os 9 drivers.

For more info you can see the forum thread here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ries-driver-os-x-ppc-porting-project.2287424/

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I just ported the kx audio driver to os x leopard and tiger server, so you can consider upgrading the sound to a sound blaster live or audigy card (amoung the models that are supported by the kx audio driver) and it will give you 24 bit 192 khz (on an sb augy series card) or 16 bit 192 khz on a sb live card and also support for 5.1 or 7.1 on some cards. This is a very good upgrade over the on board audio and the sb live cards also have os 9 drivers.

For more info you can see the forum thread here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ries-driver-os-x-ppc-porting-project.2287424/

Have you considered uploading your drivers to the Macintosh Garden? It would also be really cool to see a post about your SB driver over on the PCI card forum over HERE. I bet there's quite a few folks over there that would really be into what you have created. I have a couple old PC SB cards so will have to give this a whirl in one of my powermac G4s.

 

[ITzTravelInTime]

I have a couple old PC SB cards so will have to give this a whirl in one of my powermac G4s.

Make sure they use the emu 10k1, 10k2 or compatible chips or the driver will not work for them, compatible cards are mainly from the sb live and audigy series +a few professional level cards.

Have you considered uploading your drivers to the Macintosh Garden? It would also be really cool to see a post about your SB driver over on the PCI card forum over HERE.

I was thinking about just using GitHub to coordinate source code releases and kext releases, but i see your suggestion about macintosh garden will bring people to the project and try the driver out, so i will do it. About the PCI forums i have posted about the project on there too, here is the link: https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads...-live-and-audigy-series-e-mu-edsp-driver.581/

 

[MicroTecture]

I just ported the kx audio driver to os x leopard and tiger server, so you can consider upgrading the sound to a sound blaster live or audigy card (amoung the models that are supported by the kx audio driver) and it will give you 24 bit 192 khz (on an sb augy series card) or 16 bit 192 khz on a sb live card and also support for 5.1 or 7.1 on some cards. This is a very good upgrade over the on board audio and the sb live cards also have os 9 drivers.

For more info you can see the forum thread here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ries-driver-os-x-ppc-porting-project.2287424/

Oh this is amazing, which would be the best sound blaster card to use on here that gives the best output/features?

 

[ITzTravelInTime]

Oh this is amazing, which would be the best sound blaster card to use on here that gives the best output/features?

Honestly just one that supports 7.1 and 24 bit, so something from the audigy 2/2 ZS/4/RX series, but if you want os 9 support go for a sound blaster live from the early series, before the release of the 5.1 ones.

Peronally i have most of the sound blaster live and audigy series cards that are compatible with the kx audio driver and i think those i mentioned are the cards i'd get to upgrade a powerpc mac dpending on the usage of the machine, btw always check out the compatibility list for the kx audio driver since there are some cards from the live and audigy series which are not supported.

 

[ITzTravelInTime]

just to keep you posted, i have updated my driver release for the sound blaster cards, it includes performance improvements and fixes for some playback issues.

You can find all the details (and the download) here: https://github.com/ITzTravelInTime/kx-audio-driver/releases/tag/PPC_1.1

 

[MysticCow]

I installed a USB 2.0 card on my G4. That's it. It still has the stock "Ye Olde" GeForce2...

 

[ITzTravelInTime]

I installed a USB 2.0 card on my G4. That's it. It still has the stock "Ye Olde" GeForce2...

I might recommend a sata card flashed to support booting and a sound card as quality of life upgrades, so you can use modern storage and enjoy some audio that doesn’t suck. Also try to max out your ram while you are at it, it will just help you doing anything you need to do with it.

 

[MysticCow]

I might recommend a sata card flashed to support booting and a sound card as quality of life upgrades, so you can use modern storage and enjoy some audio that doesn’t suck. Also try to max out your ram while you are at it, it will just help you doing anything you need to do with it.

The RAM was already maxed out.

Might do SATA down the road but the gains are minuscule under 9, which I use religiously now on that system.

 

[chikorita157]

Yeah, I saw several videos about PCI SATA on a PowerMac G4 and I saw ActionRetro's video and he got slower speeds through his PCI SATA card than on IDE (he did a benchmark test on it). He used an SSD with his tests (I wonder if his SSD has DRAM cache on it).

I might look into it some more and see. I bought some more RAM for my PowerMac G4 so I can get it maxed out. I wonder if anything as fast as the 7800 GS exists for PCI.

I saw a ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 PCI go around (some of the prices for this card I find strange). I'd wonder if this card would work on a PowerMac G4 under Linux (there's no way PowerPC macOS X Leopard or below is going to support a GT 610). Wonder if anyone has tried it.

I just also noticed a PCIE to PCI adapter to plug in PCIE devices into PCI. Assuming that works under Linux, theoretically you could use a slightly more modern AMD GPU like an HD 5450 for example and have GPU acceleration in Linux.

I actually have one of those PCI-X SATA cards, namely the Seri-TekV4, which I paid a pretty penny for new old stock. It goes up to 128 MB/sec. It runs really fast with these cards, the SATA adapter is connected to a Samsung 840 (Mac OS 9) 128 GB SSD and the Mac OS X partitions are on the Crucial SSD


I also have an ACard SATA adapter on my Power Mac G3 Blue and White, but that adapter I believe can only do about 100 MB/S. I wouldn't trust any SATA to PCI adapter that claims to boot into Mac OS 9 from eBay, it doesn't. I tried one and I ended up returning it for a full refund.

 

[reddrag0n]

in my mdd i have 2x tango 2.0 usb/firewire 400 cards, a firmtek 1v4 sata card and a geforce4 ti.
once i get my G3, i will have an ati 7000 64 flashed card, usb 2.0 card and a firewire 400 card. debating if i want to put the scsi card in it since i don't really have anything that's scsi based.