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The market changes.

Mr. X will have to create a business model that offers something that Mr. Z cannot. Mr. X will also have to keep innovating, or choose to advance ideas from Mr. Z. Perhaps Mrs. G will create a business based off the product as well, with further advances on the original design. Mr. X could choose to pool resources with Mr. Z (capitalism) and buy ways to make the product more efficiently.

There is no one solution to the above proposed answer. The only thing to note, is that in this scenario, the competition and innovation required to make a successful business, along with the pooling of resources BENEFIT THE CONSUMER.

As far as I know, there is not yet a patent on pizzas. So how does a pizza shop compete against the thousands of other pizza companies without filing new patents? In the end, what matters is that there are more choices for the consumer, which fuels further innovations in pizza making and delivery. Every consumer, from low-income, to the health-conscience, have options.

Imagine how lousy the market for pizzas would be, if Pizza Hut owned the patents on making pizza.

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Give me an example of someone that you know, expressing this change in opinion.

I share my ideas, and creative content freely on the internet. Out of respect, I ask that my work is credited if it is used for profit. Outside of that, as someone who regularly makes and creates new things, I am not worried that I will run out of ideas. I work with a large group of people who follow ideas like Creative Commons and Copyleft. I think when we share many of our ideas in open forums, that the partnerships it creates, are more rewarding, then working alone.

Refreshing to see someone who is awake on these forums. Patents try unsuccessfully to remove risk from free markets but that's what markets are all about. Risk vs. reward. Lots of freedom haters on Macrumors.
 
I find it ironic that the same people defending Blackberry suing over a simple keyboard would never concede that the original Windows operating system violated every Apple patent on the graphical operating system of the Macintosh.

Sure we all know Xerox invented it, but Apple used it with their permission and patented it at new levels Xerox never dreamed of. Yet most Windows users and Blackberry users (since I don't know any Mac/Blackberry user) just take that for granted.

By this line of thinking, Apple should practically own Microsoft now in litigation, but instead, they settled. In that case, Apple had no choice but to settle with cash rich Microsoft because winning would have taken the company bankrupt long before any win could happen and the computer world as we know it might not exist or the iPhone and maybe even the Blackberry as we know it.

Ponderous.
Why wouldn't they concede that, especially since it's a fairly known reality?
 
I find it ironic that the same people defending Blackberry suing over a simple keyboard would never concede that the original Windows operating system violated every Apple patent on the graphical operating system of the Macintosh.

Well according to the courts it didn't. Apple sued remember? And failed. Microsoft had even licensed certain GUI parts from Apple and yet Apple went right ahead and sued anyway all due to overlapping Windows in Windows 2.0. If you knew your stuff you'd also know that Xerox tried to sue Apple... and failed.

Sorry, but your post is nonsensical.
 
Refreshing to see someone who is awake on these forums. Patents try unsuccessfully to remove risk from free markets but that's what markets are all about. Risk vs. reward. Lots of freedom haters on Macrumors.

I wouldn't go as far as calling them freedom haters. It's difficult to understand economics and a free-market in the current system that we live in. Heck, even I struggle with how it would work, given the years of conditioning most companies have gone through just to legally operate.

People forget that Apple is still the wealthiest company in the world, even though Google completely mirrored their work on iOS and the iPhone. We all benefitted tremendously from all the "copycats".

I wonder where Apple would have been, had they not focussed so much time, money, and effort on trying to ruin Google over an idea that science fiction writers originally produced. ;)
 
Spoken like a true lawyer!

Yeah... Think you have some CHANCE of winning your case, no matter how ridiculous? Go for it then! Your attorney's gotta making a living too!

Seriously people, this is about a freakin' keyboard! Maybe Underwriter or Smith Corona or someone should sue all of the personal computer makers for adopting their QWERTY layout keyboards too?!



They should still go for it as it's their intellectual property. Just because there's the chance they might lose in court doesn't mean they shouldn't defend what's rightfully theirs. Unlike some other companies, BlackBerry is still actually using its patents in current products ever since the original "BlueBerry" models.
 
Yeah... Think you have some CHANCE of winning your case, no matter how ridiculous? Go for it then! Your attorney's gotta making a living too!

Seriously people, this is about a freakin' keyboard! Maybe Underwriter or Smith Corona or someone should sue all of the personal computer makers for adopting their QWERTY layout keyboards too?!
Not like there's more to it than just a general idea of a keyboard, right?
 
Wow, random opinionated jerks in forums are evidence now? They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Did they show evidence those comments weren't posted by Blackberry execs?
 
Maybe Apple should have patented their keyboards. Because every laptop in Best Buy seems to have the same keyboard as a MacBook now.

Totally agree with you here. It's kinda ridiculous too. Same shape. Almost same font. Almost same key spacing.
 
Is Typo a front for Samsung? I mean this is how Samsung does business: infringe, litigate, bring out a new model with tiny changes, infringe, litigate. repeat ad infinitum.

Unlikely. They don't know how to do Samsung's specialty: Drag out court case and payment for so long that you make 10 times the money that the infringement costs.
 
Wow, a keyboard that looks like..... a keyboard?

How can you patent a keyboard?

How can you patent a clock face?

----------

It's kind of clunky, but basically you just multi-quote some folks then move the first end-tag to be right up against the second one. So...

(QUOTE=Billy)Intelligent comment(/QUOTE)
(QUOTE=Bob)Intelligent response(/QUOTE)

Becomes...

(QUOTE=Billy)Intelligent comment
(QUOTE=Bob)Intelligent response(/QUOTE)(/QUOTE)

That will show the whole discussion you are responding to in the nested order it flowed.

Ahh thanks. Will use this.
 
Well according to the courts it didn't. Apple sued remember? And failed. Microsoft had even licensed certain GUI parts from Apple and yet Apple went right ahead and sued anyway all due to overlapping Windows in Windows 2.0. If you knew your stuff you'd also know that Xerox tried to sue Apple... and failed.

Sorry, but your post is nonsensical.

Here's the story...
http://lowendmac.com/2006/the-apple-vs-microsoft-gui-lawsuit/

The Supreme Court ultimately declined to hear that case, but there were multiple lawsuits one being settled by Microsoft paying Apple bribe money to stop suing because to Bill Gates at the time, that was FU money. He didn't see Apple as ever being a threat. You can dream, but a settlement where you pay $100 million dollars may not technically be a loss on paper, but in reality, it was a loss because by licensing parts of the Mac interface, MS was admitting they copied it. Don't you think? At the time, Apple needed the money more than the moral victory in court. You can spin in any way you want, but that's the truth.

Anyone with half a brain and maybe even a Blackberry knows Windows was a direct copy of Macintosh in almost every way because Microsoft was the most involved developer in the Macintosh and had access to everything.

It was ultimately those licenses to technology that bit Apple in the ass just like Bill Gates pulled the same stunt on IBM.

At this point it's all water under the bridge, but if you believe Bill Gates created Windows, you're completely nuts.

And if you believe Blackberry can patent all kinds of keyboard designs, you are similarly nuts.

I have really bad old phones with keyboards similar to the Blackberry. Their patent claim is really shallow compared to Apple's against Microsoft in hindsight.
 
Hey Man! R & D isn't free. The courts recognize that. Hence the Patent and Copyright provisions.

I'm so glad Blackberry invented the keyboard. Boy, and I'm even more glad they licensed it to Apple, otherwise I wouldn't be able to type on my Macbook.

Yes, that was sarcasm. But if the keyboard were invented today, that's how it would work.
 
I'm so glad Blackberry invented the keyboard. Boy, and I'm even more glad they licensed it to Apple, otherwise I wouldn't be able to type on my Macbook.

Yes, that was sarcasm. But if the keyboard were invented today, that's how it would work.
Because, using that example, if BlackBerry spent time inventing a good keyboard then surely everyone should just benefit from their work just because. They are free to invent their own keyboard but that doesn't mean they get to take someone else's work and brand recognition and just benefit from it just because.
 
The future of "intellectual property" (a fancy word for ideas) is open. We share ideas daily through the internet. The open innovation and open-source revolution is coming. Companies like SpaceX and Tesla are embracing it. Toyota is toying with it. Open the flood gates, and we can start leaping through technology.

http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...ndustrial_revolution_and_open_innovation.html

I respect what you are trying to say here. SpaceX and Tesla are both run by Elon Musk (CEO at one, chief designer at the other). What you are saying is that because Elon Musk had the resources to make his patents available to everyone, everyone should have the same resources.

The problem is, that is not realistic. When Apple opened the flood gates in the App store, what happened? A race to the bottom. What we got was a lot of crap for a while. Then we found a system that legitimizes crapware (freemium).

What would happen if we invalidated all patents? I would spend years designing something and a big company would steal the design reaping the benefit of my R&D while not having to pay for R&D. This makes R&D not worth anything because you can't get paid for it.

A company like Samsung with billions could snipe any idea they wanted, and there is nothing anyone could say about it. Why would I spend my time developing something so that someone else can get paid for it? What leads you to believe that time is not worth anything? What leads you to believe it's okay for people with larger pocket books to get something for nothing? Why is that okay?

Patents exist because it is NOT okay. I get wanting to help keep technology moving, but the answer has nothing to do with... throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We need reform, not destruction.
 
I respect what you are trying to say here. SpaceX and Tesla are both run by Elon Musk (CEO at one, chief designer at the other). What you are saying is that because Elon Musk had the resources to make his patents available to everyone, everyone should have the same resources.

The problem is, that is not realistic. When Apple opened the flood gates in the App store, what happened? A race to the bottom. What we got was a lot of crap for a while. Then we found a system that legitimizes crapware (freemium).

What would happen if we invalidated all patents? I would spend years designing something and a big company would steal the design reaping the benefit of my R&D while not having to pay for R&D. This makes R&D not worth anything because you can't get paid for it.

A company like Samsung with billions could snipe any idea they wanted, and there is nothing anyone could say about it. Why would I spend my time developing something so that someone else can get paid for it? What leads you to believe that time is not worth anything? What leads you to believe it's okay for people with larger pocket books to get something for nothing? Why is that okay?

Patents exist because it is NOT okay. I get wanting to help keep technology moving, but the answer has nothing to do with... throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We need reform, not destruction.

Hes a Libertarian, you can't reason with him. He thinks the world could be a perfect little utopia if the government just got out of the damn way.
 
I HATE patents. End them. End them ALL.

Just move to China or any 3rd world asian country and have fun shopping countless look-a-like phones and devices at their countless shops and kiosks in the streets and malls!
 
Indeed, in addition Tesla and SpaceX have both accumulated so much non-patented, but difficult to acquire knowledge that the open sourced technology is not very useful to anyone. Most companies, people or other entities would lack some pieces of the puzzle (capital, people, market position etc..) needed to bring the technology to market.

All except the biggest competitors in the same space.
 
Refreshing to see someone who is awake on these forums. Patents try unsuccessfully to remove risk from free markets but that's what markets are all about. Risk vs. reward. Lots of freedom haters on Macrumors.

Must you demonize those with whom you have an ideological disagreement? There are legitimate arguments being discussed for and against the propositions you state as facts here. It's a childish and demagogic mode of argument dressed up in arrogant intellectual pretense. Smart people disagree about intellectual property law in relation to free market economics, including many diversely opinionated conservatives and libertarians. Your absolutist pronouncements mask ignorance of the complexities in the intellectual world beyond a marginally regarded economist named Hayek and a weird and nihilistic novelist named Rand.

There is an exact analog of this sneering certainty about the stupidity of IP law on the left. It's represented in this thread, but then its champion decided to elaborate to the great benefit of the civil debate here. Why not undertake to represent your extremist libertarian position in the debate in earnest?

All human societies have systems of both law and custom for restricting the circulation of knowledge, across time and cultural boundaries. It's sheer sophomoric fantasy to imagine "freedom" is incompatible with the ability to own knowledge as property.
 
Blackberry is a sad sad company.

It's sad when Blackberry looks out for itself but when Apple sues Samsung, everything is alright? What an effing joke. We arent one to talk. Apple sued Samsung over pretty much the same reasoning; look and feel. How do you sue another company over rounded corners? ROUNDED effing corners.
 
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