BlackBerry users's iPhone-hating obsession = inferiority complex?

[Stratus Fear]

I think we are going to see wave after wave of '2MP camera' spotlighting as it's the single ONLY de-tractable piece of tech left in the iPhone...Shame Apple didn't upgrade it just to kill this crap...

Even then, talking bad about 2MP in the iPhone is something born out of ignorance. Unless you get a better sensor in the camera, 3.2MP or 5MP isn't going to mean squat. All it's going to do is make it easier to see noise in the picture because you're getting more pixels through a small sensor and a plastic lens. Most of these camera phones don't actually need 3.2MP or 5MP sensors -- upgrading to bigger sensors with glass lenses @ 2MP would make a far bigger difference, but then you have the problem that these phones are really a bit too small for some bigger sensors. This is why I just shake my head at N95 users and the like sometimes -- yes, the pictures look better, but it's not because of the 5MP camera. It's because the sensor in their camera is better and they probably have a better lens. Cell phones need 5MP sensors as much as small point and shoot cameras need 8MP sensors -- the fact is that they don't. The sensor needs a bigger input resolution before you bump up the output resolution, and that requires physical space.

I had a K800i before my iPhone, and that phone had a 3.2MP camera. The pictures looked really good for a phone, but they probably would have looked just as good @ 2MP. All I could tell with the extra output pixel resolution was that the pictures didn't look as good as a friend's 3.2MP point and shoot camera.

Users of other manufacturers' cell phones can talk trash about the iPhone all they want. It doesn't mean that they actually know what they're talking about

 

[Santa Rosa]

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products

Instant win.

Sorry but you are both wrong there, I'm well and truly an Apple user but have never ever liked the iPod and also refuse to use one as my main MP3 player. I know that I'm only one person but there must be others and it proves your logic wrong.

On a brighter and funnier note, I too decided to have a quick scoot round the Blackberry Forums. I have nothing against Blackberries but do prefer my iPhone and thats the way it just is. No arguments. But for the die hard Blackberry users, on their forums this must be difficult to swallow :

 

[ClassicBean]

I've got a Blackberry 8830. It's a great device, but I really only use it for email. I've never surfed on the device, except occasionally clicking a link in an email.

Pending a decent data plan from Rogers here in Canada, I'll be leaving my Telus contract and swapping the Blackberry for an iPhone.

I think the Blackberry is an amazing device but I truly believe the iPhone is better - at least for my needs.

Blackberry fans constantly cite the lack of a tactile keyboard as reason why the iPhone is garbage. I own an iPod touch and I can honestly say that typing is a lot easier on the iPhone than on the Blackberry (I make far fewer mistakes and I can type much faster).

I actually take my iPod touch with me wherever I go and use it for emergency writing via the notepad when I don't have my laptop with me. As soon as the iPhone gets a real document editor, it'll be that much better.

 

[peterdevries]

Many even go on about touting that the iphone 3g doesn't even have exchange support and doesn't even sync calendars. LOL
"You can't even search contacts!" hahaha

Can't wait to see or not see their posts after they've been educated on some of iphone 3gs new features.


I was gonna start trolling but couldn't stop myself from laughing.

Somehow I can understand them touting. The iPhone is great: great user interface, great apps, but some apps are/were just missing functionality: such as searching contacts, copy paste, MMS. All functions that most entry level smartphones had. Just because it has an apple logo, doesn't mean we should close our eyes on obvious deficiencies.

 

[ClassicBean]

The iPhone is great: great user interface, great apps, but some apps are/were just missing functionality: such as searching contacts, copy paste, MMS.

Does anybody know if they solved the copy/paste deficiency?

 

[surferfromuk]

I've got a Blackberry 8830. It's a great device, but I really only use it for email. I've never surfed on the device, except occasionally clicking a link in an email.

Pending a decent data plan from Rogers here in Canada, I'll be leaving my Telus contract and swapping the Blackberry for an iPhone.

I think the Blackberry is an amazing device but I truly believe the iPhone is better - at least for my needs.

Blackberry fans constantly cite the lack of a tactile keyboard as reason why the iPhone is garbage. I own an iPod touch and I can honestly say that typing is a lot easier on the iPhone than on the Blackberry (I make far fewer mistakes and I can type much faster).

I actually take my iPod touch with me wherever I go and use it for emergency writing via the notepad when I don't have my laptop with me. As soon as the iPhone gets a real document editor, it'll be that much better.

Interesting to see you point of view. Your obviously quite rational!!

I expect there to be some interesting writing apps very quickly - I mean even that blog s/w in the keynote was pretty impressive in it's own way...

Funny thing is Rim have already started work on a touch screen BB and I would wager that in 5 years they'll not have a single hard keyboard device left in their range. Problem they have is that they are simply not going to be able to compete with OS X - no matter how hard they try.
I suppose the only thing they can do as a company without that kind of soft keyboard technology is to deride it..

Of course, I don't think any of us can truly imagine how incredible iPhone is going to be in 5 years time - especially when they get their own custom chipsets embedded from Semi PA next year. I really do wonder what that military grade tech is going to do for them.

It's going to be a very interesting few years in the mobile arena.

 

[BongoBanger]

I think RIM are safe for a few years yet because they're just so firmly entrenched and the iPhone will need to prove itself in the corporate market in terms of security and usability. I know, for example, that our IT department sees being dependent on iTunes to load it as a major problem. Let's also not forget that WinMo and Symbian devices are improving year on year too.

The other point is that speed of reaction in this industry is fast. Apple have stolen a march with an excellent UI but the major manufacturers - with their huge R&D budgets - are going to catch up quickly. A year ago Steve said the iPhone was 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of UI - I think it's more like two, maybe three.

I think Apple will grab a chunk of the market but I'm not sure they'll become dominant, especially outside the US.

 

[jreed]

Who Cares?!!!!!!!!

Some people like buttons....Some people like all touch....Some people like front facing cameras....Some people dont....Some people are simple....Some people are not....Some people like Apple....Some people like Blackberry....Some people need 16gb....Some people need 1gb....Some people need GPS....Some people dont....Some people need instant messaging....Some people have unlimited text....Some People think they need front facing camera....Some people say FOR WHAT, "ITS A PHONE!"....Some people want LIVE TV....Some people say FOR WHAT, "ITS A PHONE!"....Some people want MMS....Some people hate when people send them a MMS....SOme people want a metal back....Some people just want a iPhone....Some people want more bluetooth features....Some people dont even know what the hell bluetooth is!!!!!!

Dont you understand that you people are Apple, Microsoft, Google, Blackberry,Rim, etc. biggest form of free advertisement. This is exactly what they want you to do. Device bashing doesnt do anything but make a product look good, if you can understand that.

 

[Sasha-1]

It kind of reminds me of the old thinking of Main Frames vs. PCs. You had the big iron manufactures with all the big business clients whom were not paying any attention to the smaller, less visible personal computer. Who would have thought that a smaller computer, with less power, no business software, etc would some day rule the computer world?

I don't mean to say BlackBerry is the big iron, and the iPhone has no software. I'm actually comparing it to the reality that Apple is still considered "personal" and BlackBerry is synonymous with "enterprise".

I have worked for a great many large companies as a consultant many years ago. For 9 years I worked for Franklin Templeton, Bayer Pharmaceutical, McKesson Drug, Sumitomo Bank, Bank of America, Intel, the Bay Area Rapid Transit extension to the SFO airport, and on and on. Large banks still have Main Frames in operation in their basements, but contrast that to the thousands of PCs on their desktops. Who is making the real money here? The Main Frame guys or the PC manufactures? The company that maintains the Main Frame, or the company that sells all those PCs, and the software, services, and future sales of upgrades? I think we all know the answer. And I think it really defines that sometimes personal products that are easier to use often become what business users choose to use over products that were designed specifically for large enterprise.

Let's put this more into my own terms. I certified in Novell NetWare in 1995. This Network Operating System had a console that was basically useless. You could load and configure various aspects of NetWare on the server itself, but to manage the users, rights, and so on, you had to use an admin app that ran on a PC and connected to the server. So a NetWare admin was used to the concept of the Sevrer NOS, and an Admin Console. At least two machines were needed. And this un-friendly method meant no common person outside of professional training was ever going to dabble in NetWare.

Now, in 1995 Microsoft was trying like crazy to unseat Novell, which had 78% of the server market. When Windows NT was being taught at the education center I was learning, and actually teaching at, I thought long and hard about Windows NT. I worked at Vanstar, the largest Value Added Reseller at the time. I watched 400 new engineers get trained on NT in 3 months. That's about half the time it took to train a Novell Engineer. And the those trained in NT remembered how to use it. It was simple. In fact, any young kid who knew Windows pretty well would easily grasp Windows NT. It simply made more sense.

Novell quickly lost it's 78% marketshare to Microsoft. Whether you hate Windows or not, the reality of the situation was that it was easier to grasp than Novell. More people were interested in using it because they were already familiar with it. Microsoft had a small business server edition. It was easy to setup. Any small company could manage it. The days of $70,000 a year talent sitting in the back room were over.

RIM is a lot like this in my opinion. You have to setup the BlackBerry Enterprise Server to make sure of PUSH. While I have not myself installed one of these, I am told it is indeed a difficult to configure process. Not impossible, but the person managing this needs training. That means there is expense. I suppose one could argue that you need training to manage Exchange, Lotus Notes, or GroupWise anyway. And this is certainly true. I was a Lotus Notes / Domino admin and developer, and you really needed training for that system. Same is true for GroupWise. Exchange, well, I'd say it is the easiest one to pick up on, and in my opinion, this explains it's rapid adoption.

I hope the message I am conveying is that ease of use, and familiarity have a lot to do with the success of any product. If users can use it well, then they benefit well. If they genuinely enjoy the experience with the device then they benefit from it. I try to hammer one point into the heads of BlackBerry advocates. When so many users actually want the device, they request it of the company they work for. Some demand it. And IT workers often have a tendency to over estimate their value in the company. They are not really there to pick and choose how the user base works. They are there to simply make it happen. Put simply, that means that the company, its users, and its management ultimately tell IT what they want, and IT implements that desire. Not to throw big words around, but in my day we actually had terms for this. It was called a "current state analysis", the "desired state analysis", and the most important, the "gap analysis". As you have likely guessed, the "gap analysis" is the road map a consultant lives by. The very creation of this document is a job well paid for. And the act of implementation of this analysis is how all consultants make their money. What this means is simply this; the fact that 35% of the fortune 500 companies are interested in the iPhone means that there are a lot of guys like my former self that are planning ways to implement the product into the enterprise. There is buzz now. There is desire. Users are flooding their companies with requests. And this forces the company to ask if it is feasible. Do you think consultants want to sell? Yes, of course they do. Do they want you to stick with what they sold you yesterday, or would they rather sell you something you actually want today? Doesn't it make sense that they want to sell what wants to be bought?

You have a win-win situation here. Employees want it. Employees know how to use it. The software is easier to use by far. More powerful, more flexible, and even enjoyable. The management is easier. No NOC, no BES add on server. Just Exchange and you have what you need already ready to go.

Sum it up in my mind. You have a product that is easier to use. It's more powerful. It's easier to configure. The vast majority of your clients want it. Software developers are very excited about it. If the past is any indication of the future, isn't it obvious where the iPhone is going? I think it is.

Alex

 

[megfilmworks]

The other point is that speed of reaction in this industry is fast. Apple have stolen a march with an excellent UI but the major manufacturers - with their huge R&D budgets - are going to catch up quickly. A year ago Steve said the iPhone was 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of UI - I think it's more like two, maybe three.

Apple IS the big player. That's why RIM is in trouble. Apple has larger cash reserves, better R&D, better staff. RIM may control the IT market, but Apple is a much larger player and has wads of cash to throw at anything. The others will chase Apple, copy Apple, but it will be very hard for them to keep pace or pass Apple's R+D.
Market cap: 150 billion vs 74 billion.
Cash reserves: 15 billion vs 1 billion.

 

[BongoBanger]

Apple IS the big player. That's why RIM is in trouble. Apple has larger cash reserves, better R&D, better staff. RIM may control the IT market, but Apple is a much larger player and has wads of cash to throw at anything. The others will chase Apple, copy Apple, but it will be very hard for them to keep pace or pass Apple's R+D.
Market cap: 150 billion vs 74 billion.
Cash reserves: 15 billion vs 1 billion.

Apple's market cap is way, way overvalued - just look at their PE ratio. In addition their cash reserves will help but that's not the same as being entrenched.

 

[Sasha-1]

Apple's market cap is way, way overvalued - just look at their PE ratio. In addition their cash reserves will help but that's not the same as being entrenched.

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

 

[BongoBanger]

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

Good grief! I had no idea RIM were that overinflated. That PE is crazy!

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

It has but it's still a bit overinflated and dependent on high growth levels which may or may not be sustainable.

 

[costabunny]

I have a Blackberry (and this is the second different one) and I will say this

Blackberrys SUCK

I hate it soooo much I could cry, (and sometimes have when it refuses to do simple tasks easily)....

I cant wait to get back to work and show our Telecoms guy the keynote - I hope to god he gets the message that this has all the features we have been looking for in an enterprise level mobile support platform. The Blackberry just doesnt cut the mustard!

(not a useful post, but one that I feel better for making )

 

[Mackan]

I don't understand why they are obsessed with the iPhone, but the constant whining about and trashing it makes me think they are jealous, have an inferiority complex, or they are simply sore losers.

I feel the situation is the same when you bring up Windows with a Mac user...

 

[littlewaywelt]

Yeah, kind of weird. You'd think they would be happy that a real competitor showed up (Windows Mobile...Palm...lol) to keep RIM innovative.

Windows Mobile has ten times the capability of an iPhone, sorry. lol
That said, I'm switching to an iPhone after years of WM use, primarily for mobileme service capabilities

 

[Stampyhead]

Windows Mobile has ten times the capability of an iPhone...

Care to explain what you mean by this?

 

[test54]

Apple's P/E is 35. RIM's is is very close to 59!! And Apple has 20 billion is cash and short term. RIM has less that 3 billion.

A very good P/E is 18 - 25. Apple's is a little high, but considering the conversation is Apple vs. RIM, it's not bad at all. And keep in mind that Apple's stock has been a very solid performer since the company started. Apple has a lot of good will.

Alex

And they have other products that will offset the cell phone market.

 

[Consultant]

Lots of people bash the iPod too. Now iPod is the most popular music player in most of the world.

Did you people even read what the OP said?. Not that Apple users don't do the same thing to Windows users although most Mac users have actually used Windows so they speak from experience unlike the Blackberry users who bash the iPhone while never trying it. He said that they are obsessed with the iPhone and every topic is about the iPhone and bashing it. I don't see every topic on MacRumors centered around bashing Windows.

You hit the nail straight on!

lmao I love looking at the stupid bb users on crackberry.com

for their top 10 reasons why "iPhone is still no BlackBerry"

#7-no expandable memory

has anyone really ever used up all 16gbs of their iPhone???? who wants a microSD anyway???

I have a 16gb touch and I really want to fill it... but I can't! I have 200 songs (out of which I listen to about 15), 3 movies (seen 'em all), and 3gbs in podcasts that I'm never guna watch... I still have 7gbs left! that's almost half! and I don't even use the iPod feature that much anyway!

no expandable memory my ass...

Yup, people with "expandable memory" phones typically buy 1 or 2gb modules to supplement their 100mb of built in ram, and don't use the sd card for anything.

It kind of reminds me of ....

Great post.

 

[littlewaywelt]

Care to explain what you mean by this?

seriously? you want me to start listing features? here goes...

nearly everything can be done one handed on many devices, a few require two.
cut and paste
voice dialing
voice launch of features
can watch all you tube (not just mobile) and a large variety of flash based video
can stream sirius sat radio
remote locking & wipe of device
can sync without losing entourage (lost this in 08 version) or outlook categories - a must for many of us.
can easily alter the registry for customization
speed dial pictures on home page where just holding a key lets you chose from tm, email, call, etc.
can take sd cards - I can pop my camera's card in and instantly email pictures or I can take a card out and put it into an sd card drive, when connector cables or bt connections aren't easily made. It also means I can have a large plethora of big documents available that would clog email or be rejected.
can browse file structure via app or cpu and use the device as a mobile storage unit.
can watch video, music etc in any format
can alter office docs in a native format
can run a powerpoint from phone
can have live radar images on home page along with weather (again don't have to click a separate app)
can have live traffic images and reporting, live stock & sports tickers
shows you which email accounts have mail
search the web from the home page
windows live and google maps - windows live mobile is more powerful than google's, imo. Windows live has voice control and it works really really well. "find cigars near 15217" etc. blows google maps out of the water.
keyboards - imho, a treo or other qwerty kboard is faster, but I suppose I just have to get used to apple's
bluetooth & a2dp- I understand that apple's doesn't work so well and that it's buggy or doesn't play well with others, but I don't use bt.
there are tens of thousands of reliable 3rd party apps

I could go on and on. In general WM allows greater functionality in fewer clicks. I've only played with an iPhone on a handful of occasions, but I think I got a pretty good feel for it.

I'm not an iPhone basher, and again, I'm moving to it in July, but imho, the virtues of iPhone are vastly over-rated. The reason blackberry and others "bash" iPhone is they think it's all marketing and a fancy user interface that's actually less efficient that what's already out there.

 

[surferfromuk]

seriously? you want me to start listing features? here goes...

nearly everything can be done one handed on many devices, a few require two.


cut and paste agreed
voice dialing agreed
voice launch of features crap
can watch all you tube (not just mobile) and a large variety of flash based video crap - handy for porn only
can stream sirius sat radio coming with apps
remote locking & wipe of device V2.0
can sync without losing entourage (lost this in 08 version) or outlook categories - a must for many of us. V2.0 Exchange integration
can easily alter the registry for customization Your kidding right?
speed dial pictures on home page where just holding a key lets you chose from tm, email, call, etc. crap
can take sd cards - I can pop my camera's card in and instantly email pictures or I can take a card out and put it into an sd card drive, when connector cables or bt connections aren't easily made. It also means I can have a large plethora of big documents available that would clog email or be rejected.
crap

can browse file structure via app or cpu and use the device as a mobile storage unit. 1st part crap - what for? 2nd part ok, agreed - might be handy
can watch video, music etc in any format pointless - itunes takes care of that - just pre-convert
can alter office docs in a native format mmh..aps will sort this
can run a powerpoint from phone V2.0
can have live radar images on home page along with weather (again don't have to click a separate app)
Flash I suppose ? Widgets and apps will sort this
can have live traffic images and reporting, live stock & sports tickers widgets and apps will sort this
shows you which email accounts have mail iPhone shows you have mail - why clutter your brain until you actually go into the accounts screen
search the web from the home page pointeless
windows live and google maps - windows live mobile is more powerful than google's, imo. Windows live has voice control and it works really really well. "find cigars near 15217" etc. blows google maps out of the water. subjective point of view - also highly questionable
keyboards - imho, a treo or other qwerty kboard is faster, but I suppose I just have to get used to apple's
bluetooth & a2dp- I understand that apple's doesn't work so well and that it's buggy or doesn't play well with others, but I don't use bt. subjective point of view - personally I hate plastic keys
there are tens of thousands of reliable 3rd party apps very much doubt that - 9000 crappy buggy nasty shareware apps - 500 half decent shareware apps - 500 decent apps BUT try to find 'em without an APP STORE. Buy them without knowing if they are safe without an APP STORE - pay for them knowing your money is safe without an APP STORE

I could go on and on. In general WM allows greater functionality in fewer clicks. I've only played with an iPhone on a handful of occasions, but I think I got a pretty good feel for it.

I'm not an iPhone basher, and again, I'm moving to it in July, but imho, the virtues of iPhone are vastly over-rated. The reason blackberry and others "bash" iPhone is they think it's all marketing and a fancy user interface that's actually less efficient that what's already out there.

You forgot to mention it has a 'task manager' in your list of 'must have iPhone beating features
. Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with. Apple have made great strides in perfecting the user experience and giving these features without actually managing to bugger up the delightful experience. I would say let's see exactly how much Microsoft copies of Apple for the next Winmo release...I bet a heck of a lot...but whatever they do it'll never be running on OSX - that alone makes the future of iPhone incredibly bright..

 

[littlewaywelt]

You forgot to mention it has a 'task manager' in your list of 'must have iPhone beating features
. Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with. Apple have made great strides in perfecting the user experience and giving these features without actually managing to bugger up the delightful experience. I would say let's see exactly how much Microsoft copies of Apple for the next Winmo release...I bet a heck of a lot...but whatever they do it'll never be running on OSX - that alone makes the future of iPhone incredibly bright..

the task manager is nice. I can easily switch from program to program to program. Why would you assume the shortcomings will be quickly dealt with? The fact that this gen doesn't have cut and paste is a perfect example.

What Wm has figured out that apple hasn't is that quick access to features is often key. With a WM phone you can one hand your way to a number of things with minimum key clicks. You can't do that with iPhone. You can look at the weather, radar and live traffic images right from the home page...how many clicks would that take with iPhone. I'm amazed how many fanboys apple has that think WM must be as bad as the desktop version. It's really phenomenal. A dpad is a great and fast way to move around a device.

-speed dials. I can make a call in two touches, one to turn on the phone, another to hit the key. How many does gestures and touches does it take on an iPhone? ...that's what I thought.
-voice command isn't crap- it works very well. the only thing it's missing is bt integration.
-porn may be a plus, but it works with all of you tube, not youtube mobile like -what apple is limited to. I also get some limited flash on web pages as well
-with resco explorer it takes seconds to alter the registry and do all kinds of custom things, there are even programs and cabs that automate it for you.
-mmh may sort it, but WM has had it for years.
- you won't have live apps on the homepage, you'l have to click on an icon, which goes to the heart of the issue. WM does everything faster and with fewer clicks than iPhone does.
-your lack of acknowledgement about sd cards or other is stunning. It's a fact of life for many professionals that have to deal with large files which can't be emailed.
-mail clutter your brain? you have to be kidding. Because if it's an email from LLBean I don't care. If it's from my boss or wife, I do. I can look at the home page and I don't have to waste time clicking to find out if it's important.
-wmlive is better than google maps. subjective? yes, in the same way an iphone is better than a clamshell phone. wmlive and the voice search are amazing. more options and more tied into the contacts and os.
- the number of wm programs blows away what will be on iStore. and for the probably hundred plus programs I played with or bought I can only think of a couple which were buggy.
Here's another key one. With two clicks I can sms a message back to a caller that I'm otherwise unavailble or pick from any of 12 messages I've set. iPhone have that? Thought not. It really goes on and on.


...clearly you've never spent any measurable amount of time with WM phone of any caliber and your post smacks of fanboy-ism.

 

[BongoBanger]

Don't get me wrong I agree that App support has been dearly lacking but we have to assume that 90% of the shortcomings will be quickly and smoothly dealt with.

I'd like to think so, but since it's over a year with still no sight of copy and paste I'm a bit sceptical.

 

[Shackler]

lmao I love looking at the stupid bb users on crackberry.com

for their top 10 reasons why "iPhone is still no BlackBerry"

#7-no expandable memory

has anyone really ever used up all 16gbs of their iPhone???? who wants a microSD anyway???

I have a 16gb touch and I really want to fill it... but I can't! I have 200 songs (out of which I listen to about 15), 3 movies (seen 'em all), and 3gbs in podcasts that I'm never guna watch... I still have 7gbs left! that's almost half! and I don't even use the iPod feature that much anyway!

no expandable memory my ass...

Because you dont use it doesn't mean no one does. apple does make 160GB iPods after all, someone is buying them. there is clearly a demand for 32GB iPhones. LOTS of people want microSD that why its on the VAST majority of phones.

by the way you having only 200 songs is probably in the minority amount of people.

And i see you couldn't touch any of the other 9 items on the list.

Blackberry users are definitely not having an inferiority complex.

 

[surferfromuk]

the task manager is nice. I can easily switch from program to program to program. Why would you assume the shortcomings will be quickly dealt with? The fact that this gen doesn't have cut and paste is a perfect example.

What Wm has figured out that apple hasn't is that quick access to features is often key. With a WM phone you can one hand your way to a number of things with minimum key clicks. You can't do that with iPhone. You can look at the weather, radar and live traffic images right from the home page...how many clicks would that take with iPhone. I'm amazed how many fanboys apple has that think WM must be as bad as the desktop version. It's really phenomenal. A dpad is a great and fast way to move around a device.

-speed dials. I can make a call in two touches, one to turn on the phone, another to hit the key. How many does gestures and touches does it take on an iPhone? ...that's what I thought.
-voice command isn't crap- it works very well. the only thing it's missing is bt integration.
-porn may be a plus, but it works with all of you tube, not youtube mobile like -what apple is limited to. I also get some limited flash on web pages as well
-with resco explorer it takes seconds to alter the registry and do all kinds of custom things, there are even programs and cabs that automate it for you.
-mmh may sort it, but WM has had it for years.
- you won't have live apps on the homepage, you'l have to click on an icon, which goes to the heart of the issue. WM does everything faster and with fewer clicks than iPhone does.
-your lack of acknowledgement about sd cards or other is stunning. It's a fact of life for many professionals that have to deal with large files which can't be emailed.
-mail clutter your brain? you have to be kidding. Because if it's an email from LLBean I don't care. If it's from my boss or wife, I do. I can look at the home page and I don't have to waste time clicking to find out if it's important.
-wmlive is better than google maps. subjective? yes, in the same way an iphone is better than a clamshell phone. wmlive and the voice search are amazing. more options and more tied into the contacts and os.
- the number of wm programs blows away what will be on iStore. and for the probably hundred plus programs I played with or bought I can only think of a couple which were buggy.
Here's another key one. With two clicks I can sms a message back to a caller that I'm otherwise unavailble or pick from any of 12 messages I've set. iPhone have that? Thought not. It really goes on and on.


...clearly you've never spent any measurable amount of time with WM phone of any caliber and your post smacks of fanboy-ism.

I think what you like to refer to fanboy-sim is rather an apple-esque point of view. The things you consider advantages and positives I consider disadvantages and negatives. This is the fundamental crux of the differences between Microsoft s/w philosophy and Apple s/w philosophy. If your expecting the iPhone to become like a Windows mobile your buying the wrong phone. It will never be like WinMo ( which I have used). I'd seriously re-consider the reasons your buying this phone because I'm not sure it's for you..you seem to have missed the entire point of it...

1) Task Manager is the anti-thesis of what the iPhone is about. Apple have and are going to great lengths to make the iPhone a one app at a time environment. This is why they are implementing a push notification service so that ever notification orientated application on your phone doesn't have it's own little sniffer process running in the background. I assure you the vast majority of non-technical people do not want to and never will want to go into a task manager if intelligent design can render it irrelevant. I can't think of a single good reason to need to go into a task manager. The home button on the iPhone is even smart enough to be the quit. That's revolutionary design at work. The only reason you ever need to go into a task manager is to kill a hung process or hunt down and kill a hung process.
2) Accessing web pages is a one click deal - you simply add the home page to the main screen - you get an icon - it launches safari and goes to that place on the web page.
3) I don't understand your obsession with 'clicks' - as if they are some kind of measure of perfection. I can quite easily access any app on my iphone with a single click. And each of those apps is beautifully and intelligently designed for multi-touch experience that is staggeringly unmatched in any way on Winmo ( which I have used and found it to be a nasty replicant mutant version of windows transferred to a portable device). Speed dialing is three click if you include the slide to unlock the phone -hardly a UI crisis - the trade off being you haven't cluttered your open screen with endless crap - meaning you can easily see all your major apps after that first slide - I think it's a BETTER way.
4) Youtube experience on iPhone is not perfect by any means but the hi-res copies make up for a lot.
5) Again you suggest that having access to the registry is some kind of pre-requisite to running your phone. If you want to mod your iphone there are apps like summerboard and there will be plenty of others. Registry is nonsense and the bane of windows since it's not exactly secure is it!
6) I know all about SD cards - I just rarely feel the need to use them. I jack in and my images are automatically copied to iPhoto -which I consider one of the finest photo management apps I've ever used and certainly significantly better than all the crap that comes with any camera. As for any other file copy - I've never needed of felt the need to do it on my phone.
7) Voice search is a seriously subjective technology. It's useless in a noisy environment and it's wierd to be talking to your phone in a room with other people in it...not convinced about that - certainly I've had it on other phones and have never used it..It's a gimmick
8) Number of programs on the app store - well, it's a bit early to make such wide sweeping statements - I think the hardware power of the iPhone and it's 3D hardware graphics acceleration together with the accelerometer and the MT UI will herald some amazing apps and becuase the UI has been systemised by the SDK we will get a uniformity of experience and operational expectation without crappy file menu's...
9) Why would you text someone to tell them your unavailable - seems like a rude thing to do...can't you just ignore them or reply ?

I really don't understand why your getting an iPhone...