BlackBerry users's iPhone-hating obsession = inferiority complex?

[diamond.g]

Thanks for the work correction. I should have realized it.

Best,

Alex

Not a problem.

In the end I think Apple will do well. But (and this is in regards to the other post you made) the iPhone won't gain more traction until they offer a version without a camera. There are plenty of people in the various three letter agencies that would love to use the iPhone but the strict camera phone policy is killing those plans. Plus Apple will need to make a CDMA version as Verizon is pretty popular in the government (I have no clue why that is).

And offer it with more carriers. That whole sole source stuff is messy (how do you get three quotes for a product where only one vendor carries it?).

 

[BongoBanger]

RIM has a P/E of 63 intraday today. You might not be into stocks the way I am, so let me explain a few fundamentals. P/E means Price to Earnings Ratio. Right now, RIM is trading at a value 63 times greater than its earnings support.

If you wanted to buy a business, they'd not sell it for what the company makes in a year or even two years. Perhaps not even 5 years. So imagine you want to buy the corner store that sells sodas and candy to kids. The sale price of the store is likely 5 to 10 times its earnings potential. You as a buyer are investing. It's long term. So the store would perhaps sell at a P/E of 10 to 1. Some 5:1 some even less. It depends on the market.

Given Apple's P/E is 37 everything you say about RIMM applies to them as well.

 

[Ori]

Oh the irony.

Apple users are of course so well known for being open minded to competing products

Well you see I don't quite agree with you there. Yes Apple users tend to bash windows a hell of a lot, but so do windows users. Also Mac users use windows where as most windows users have never ever used a Mac.
I personally switched to a Mac 1 year ago. I was a windows fanatic all my life (I'm 32 so pretty ingrained) and hated the thought of "learning" how to use a new OS. I thought I would give the hype a go and replaced my VIAO with a 2nd hand Powerbook G4. I have never looked back. I find myself windows bashing as I can't believe anyone would want to use Windows! I hate the fact I have to use it at work. It drives me nuts with how flakey it is and so forth. Don't get me wrong, there is software on a PC that I would like on my Mac, but isn't there. It was also a major reason for me switching to the Iphone as I couldn't stand the lack of BB support. I had BB for over 4 years and it was a major move for me and I do miss certain aspects of the BB (including the fantastic facebook application). I do however love the faster OS on the Iphone, and I have even grown to love the touch typing. The Iphone isn't perfect, but due to the nature of software updates is evolving at a much faster pace than the BB. I will not go back to BB as I can't leave my touch screen, photo album (which I can view quickly...on the BB it was so slow I gave up keeping photos on there), and ease of use. If however BB came out with a superior product then I would consider it.

In conclusion, I am new to Apple and I can honestly say it was a smart move for me. Price is still a problem for me on laptops, but since my one is an old processor and is still working quicker than most of the entry level PC's I can buy and am in no hurry to change it.

 

[Sasha-1]

Not a problem.

In the end I think Apple will do well. But (and this is in regards to the other post you made) the iPhone won't gain more traction until they offer a version without a camera. There are plenty of people in the various three letter agencies that would love to use the iPhone but the strict camera phone policy is killing those plans. Plus Apple will need to make a CDMA version as Verizon is pretty popular in the government (I have no clue why that is).

And offer it with more carriers. That whole sole source stuff is messy (how do you get three quotes for a product where only one vendor carries it?).

Considering Apple has made specific hardware for the education market, I would expect they make a specific version for any large agency.

Though I am an AT&T customer, I don't discount Verizon's CDMA technology. TDMA based technologies essentially create specific sized pipes for bandwidth. They assume a one size fits all approach to bandwidth allocation. They are not dynamic and it's too bad, because CDMA is my humble opinion is a superior technology. Yeah, you can say TDMA was AT&T and Cingular is is really GSM, but GSM is really a hyped up TDMA. CDMA can handle more with less infrastructure. If iPhone was available on Verizon, I would consider switching to it. What holds me back from Verizon is their lack of respect for their clients. Locking features is unacceptable. But my friends swear by them. The thing is, I live and travel to San Francisco, New York, Las Vegas, L.A., and if I go over seas, I am supported. In every location I am in, I am supported. So I don't have a real problem with AT&T. I never have, so I never saw a reason to use Verizon.

Alex

 

[Sasha-1]

Given Apple's P/E is 37 everything you say about RIMM applies to them as well.

So you think a P/E of 37 is comparable to a P/E of 67? Interesting point of view I am sure no one else shares. But good luck with that.

Alex

 

[Archie-]

So you think a P/E of 37 is comparable to a P/E of 67? Interesting point of view I am sure no one else shares. But good luck with that.

Alex

Didn't Apple have a 40%+ "correction" and recovered? I thought once you have a correction "its near impossible to rise up again".

 

[Sasha-1]

Didn't Apple have a 40%+ "correction" and recovered? I thought once you have a correction "its near impossible to rise up again".

Hence the word, "nearly". The difference is, Apple had a runaway successful product, i.e. the iPod, which really brought them back in a big way. Before the iPod, Apple's Macintosh sales had dropped below 2% of the worldwide market. The unit count was essentially under 880k per quarter. After the iPod, the unit count rose to over 2 million per quarter. Hence the halo affect you hear about.

Apple had a rare success that really helped them out. They have essentially several businesses now. Music, Computers, and now perhaps handsets.

So I put the question back to you. If RIM proves to become a failure in the handset market, which other business do they have to rescue them?

Alex

 

[friekunater]

sfoalex, I was reading your posts and I think what you have been saying is very interesting...

about RIM's correction, why wasn't the correction the drop in February? I see the prices were going up steeply and it dropped suddenly... could there be more than one "correction"?

 

[friekunater]

also, Porsche Dutch (POR3.de I think) had a stock price of over $1130 for about a week or so but in a few days it sunk to ~$150... what was that about?

 

[Sasha-1]

sfoalex, I was reading your posts and I think what you have been saying is very interesting...

about RIM's correction, why wasn't the correction the drop in February? I see the prices were going up steeply and it dropped suddenly... could there be more than one "correction"?

It all depends on your point of view. Let me explain what a correction is in greater detail. If you look at RIM today, you see that about the time the iPhone came out interest grew tremendously. When I owned my last BlackBerry they had some record quarter of 3.4 million new signups in one quarter. That's a very high number. Consider that Apple has only sold 6 million units thus far, and RIM had 3.4 million new members in just a single quarter. It's a dramatic uptake to be sure. The following quarter, RIM did it again. They had another 3 plus million new signups.

So in the last 6 months RIM has matched Apple's entire year for unit sales. If you look at nothing but the smart phone market, they are currently out-pacing Apple by a wide margin. So those that say I am baseless do indeed have a foundation on which to stand on, though none of them have even decided to use this particular information against my comments. Shows how little they know.

But what of the correction? How is I can sit and say RIM is about to lose something when they are out pacing Apple so easily?

Well, that's exactly what I think will throw off just about any analyst, and for sure any BB fans, supporters, whatever.

Here is the nuts and bolts of the situation as I see it.

When you show record growth, wall street rewards you so long as your forecast shows you expect the same or more of it. That single statement is a fact. It is what props up a stock in a nutshell. Why do companies report record profits and their stocks fall? Two reasons. 1. profit taking. 2. they forecast that the next quarter is not going to be as great as this current quarter. Translated into wall street speak, they are saying the value of the company is going to go down slightly in over the next quarter. Remember a fundamental. The stock performance "is" the value of a company at that time. It's a snap shot. A lot of people here likely don't realize that fact. Apple's stock price today, RIMs, Microsoft, any one of them. What ever the trade is today, is what the companies "now" estimated value is considering everything. That means, current rate of growth, existing customers, good will, etc etc.

A correction is pretty simple. It's when we see a shift. For example, let's say that today, this morning in fact, we believe RIM is staying the course. Then a P/E of 67 is okay. But if tomorrow Apple said, gosh we shipped 10 million units. And RIM said we shipped 2 million down from 3.4 last quarter. If that were to happen, the estimates would all change immediately. And that is a correction. It's when you look at any stock and say, oh, the facts have changed. Here is what we believe it to be now.

So if you believe as I do that RIM has reached their peak, then they have no where to go but down. I believe this. This is my opinion in a nut shell. I believe with iPhone and Android, and Microsoft, I believe RIM will either level, or drop. Actually, I believe they will drop.

Does that make sense?

Best,

Alex

 

[friekunater]

yeah that makes perfect sense... why did RIM's stock prices actually go up after the announcement and through the release of the iPhone? surely no one expected RIM to benefit from a new competitor being introduced?

 

[Sasha-1]

yeah that makes perfect sense... why did RIM's stock prices actually go up after the announcement and through the release of the iPhone? surely no one expected RIM to benefit from a new competitor being introduced?

You'd think so. I would have thought the same. However, RIM announced the would beat estimates and they saw no slow down. They even said they felt Apple's announcement would raise interest. And RIM made good on this 2 quarters in a row.

I simply feel that the climate will change. RIM developing a touch screen and announcing a fund tells me RIM is at least a little bit worried.

Alex

 

[friekunater]

lol yeah I find it funny how BB fans are saying how much the iPhone sucks yet RIM's starting to copy whatever Apple does and all the BB fans are all excited about Thunder

 

[surferfromuk]

The ultimate analogy...

If Apple was in a martial arts fight with RIM then last year they turned up out of nowhere and chopped RIM in the face.

Winmo sat in the corner quivering as the two heavyweights came to blows. Winmo briefly considered using his gun to shoot them both in the back - unfortunately for Winmo lots of people are watching and there is no way Winmo would get away with it so all he can do is stay quiet.

RIM fell back a little but then came back for more. Apple are now currently flying through mid air in a prone Bruce Lee like attack position ( think Enter the Dragon).

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

Windows mobile of course will now try to pull out his gun and shoot Apple in the back whilst everyone is watching RIM being stretchered off. Fortunately, Apple has been in a battle with Windows before and knows just what a low down sneaky rat he is and so will simply let rip a throwing star when Winmo shows his gun. The throwing star will whizz silently across the room and slot neatly between Winmo's eyes. The crowd will roar with approval when Winmo hits the ground in a puff of dust...

Damm - did I just write that ?

 

[Sasha-1]

lol yeah I find it funny how BB fans are saying how much the iPhone sucks yet RIM's starting to copy whatever Apple does and all the BB fans are all excited about Thunder

It's understandable. I have over a hundred posts on the BlackBerryForum supporting the BB. I've said very nice things about that product. Had Apple not released an iPhone, I'd likely still be saying nice things about it, though the Treo does have a few features that I wish the BB had. The BB is a good product, but it's also a very simple product.

My favorite app for it is ToDoMatrix. I have since switched to OmniFocus which I have to admit I like much much more. And the OmniGroup is releasing a synced version for the iPhone. In a nutshell, I don't think RIM has any software that will hold up against the iPhone. About six months ago I wanted a database app for the BB. I finally found this database app that had customized screens, an IDE for developing their own look and feel the way you can with FileMakerPro or Access. After spending $79 for it, I found that the manual was written for Palm and Windows Mobile. The developers had merely ported the database guts over to the BB and nothing else. No interface, no nothing. All that was available was the native cell view. There are essentially two big places that sell BB software. I purchased from one of those places, and after I got the actually developer to admit the manual was completely wrong, and the product description of what we were buying was grossly wrong, I was refunded my money. I later found Ascendo Data Vault, which is essentially an electronic wallet. I convinced the developers that it would be a good idea if I could send records via email. The app has 10 fields that can be customized. So I made templates for basic things I needed a database for, and used DataVault to email the records as needed. So for example, I had FTP accounts for all my clients. If they needed to know how to log into the FTP server, I merely looked up their record, and emailed it to them. It worked out fairly well, but wasn't exactly what I had wanted.

JiveTalk is a very good BB IM app. And they have spell checkers, etc. But as a writer, I love to carry a large dictionary around. On the Treo, I had a 320,000 word oxford dictionary. It could be installed in the expanded memory card. On the BlackBerry, installing such a large dictionary took so much memory that when I tried to add an office app of just 1 MB, it acted very strangely, crashed my BB, and actually messed up the display characteristics of the interface. Removing the dictionary removed the problems.

The BB makes for a poor Enterprise device. That's conflicts with everything everyone has ever said, but when I see a truth, I don't much care of the 6 billion people on Earth agree with me. The fact is, it has so limited a memory set, it's strength is really in just it's limited text email. Everything else is beyond what RIM had designed it for.

iPhone and the new way of thinking.

The iPhone on the other hand is designed from the ground up to be a platform. That salesforce.com demo knocked my socks off. It showed just what was possible in terms of new Enterprise software for a mobile platform. RIM in its current state couldn't offer anything like that. They simply don't have the foundation for it. My feeling is that there is plenty more great software coming to the iPhone. And that this software will become a differentiator. Enterprise will begin to understand the opportunity that has fundamentally changed in mobile computing. When they reach this epiphany their interest in the BlackBerry will begin to wane. The buzz, the opportunity, the development, and the clout of Apple will rise until it reaches the inflection in which the tern Enterprise Mobile becomes redefined, and BlackBerry is no longer part of it.

This may sound far fetched. But good software is what makes a platform truly great. I don't see RIm being able to make software the rivals what will be offered on the iPhone. I just don't see it. And email along won't be enough. Customers will begin to expect more.

Alex

If Apple was in a martial arts fight with RIM then last year they turned up out of nowhere and chopped RIM in the face.

Winmo sat in the corner quivering as the two heavyweights came to blows. Winmo briefly considered using his gun to shoot them both in the back - unfortunately for Winmo lots of people are watching and there is no way Winmo would get away with it so all he can do is stay quiet.

RIM fell back a little but then came back for more. Apple are now currently flying through mid air in a prone Bruce Lee like attack position ( think Enter the Dragon).

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

Windows mobile of course will now try to pull out his gun and shoot Apple in the back whilst everyone is watching RIM being stretchered off. Fortunately, Apple has been in a battle with Windows before and knows just what a low down sneaky rat he is and so will simply let rip a throwing star when Winmo shows his gun. The throwing star will whizz silently across the room and slot neatly between Winmo's eyes. The crowd will roar with approval when Winmo hits the ground in a puff of dust...

Damm - did I just write that ?

Well, Microsoft sold Apple a crowbar in which to whack RIM with. Hang on, there is a tiny inscription engraved on the base of the bar. Oh okay, it says, ActiveSync. But more seriously, I think of the customer base as a moving car. It moves forward creating a lot of momentum. Even if a dramatic course change is made, there is so much momentum that going forward is inevitable for at least a while longer.

Technically the course change I have predicted is still just a prediction. But I believe it to take place soon. And I believe that RIM will go forward a while longer as a result of pure momentum. But I do feel a course corrections is inevitable. And I am of the opinion that RIM will suffer at the hands of Apple, Google, and Microsoft.

Alex

 

[megfilmworks]

Definition of a good read:

Any post by sfoalex.

 

[friekunater]

thought so too lol...

so sfoalex... what do you think about the current state of the US economy?

 

[DP-Paris]

both

I have an iPhone, which I rate as an internet enabled gadget, but do not really like as a phone (I often scream at it). In my opinion it is not great for sending emails (though good for reading them), texts etc. The lack of copy and paste is just sooo bad (though I hear that will be in version 3.0 of the OS). I love using it to read ebooks, listening to music and playing galcon Battery dies quickly when using it though, which is not great.

Touch screen just does not do it for me when typing. I type in French and English, sometimes mixing the 2 languages in the same text/email. The predictive text on the iPhone makes it almost impossible to use. I do not need predictive text on the BB as it is easier type without error.

I do like the visual voice mail though, a nice feature.

I have a blackberry for work, which I love for emails and making calls. I consider to be the best 'phone with email functionality' I have ever had. I do not use it for anything else though. The battery lasts for a very long time, which is very important if you are out for the day meeting clients etc etc. I would not trust my iphone battery to last for half a day if I had to use it as much as the Blackberry for email.

 

[FFR]

Touch screen just does not do it for me when typing. I type in French and English, sometimes mixing the 2 languages in the same text/email. The predictive text on the iPhone makes it almost impossible to use. I do not need predictive text on the BB as it is easier type without error.

I type in french and english too. The iphone is the only device i have used that lets me switch keyboards and predictive text with the click of a button.

 

[DP-Paris]

I type in french and english too. The iphone is the only device i have used that lets me switch keyboards and predictive text with the click of a button.

If you remember to hit the button. I usually type the word, realise I forgot, delete it, hit the button, continue to to type in English, forget the button again, delete, hit the button and on and on. Not great really.

I do not need to switch keyboards when I use my blackberry....

 

[Evev12]

Absolutely not, actually quite the opposite I think - I think a vast majority of the iphone community have a complex of thinking that what they have is the best. Why would it be an inferiority complex when they can just go out and buy the same phone...it's the same price! Is the iphone better for my needs, yes. Is that to say it's better for everyone's needs? I know a bunch of people that HAD iphones, got rid of them and LOVE their BB's. You really can't say that it's an inferiority complex though. That's what gives us iphone users bad names and makes everyone think that it's simply phone for kids. At the very most maybe they're jealous of some of the applications that we have, just as I wish we had some of the apps the Android has, but that doesn't mean I think one phone is better than the next. It's all subjective.

 

[FFR]

If you remember to hit the button. I usually type the word, realise I forgot, delete it, hit the button, continue to to type in English, forget the button again, delete, hit the button and on and on. Not great really.

I do not need to switch keyboards when I use my blackberry....

The button is next to the space bar.

 

[Kardashian]

I don't understand why they are obsessed with the iPhone, but the constant whining about and trashing it makes me think they are jealous, have an inferiority complex, or they are simply sore losers.

No.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

And again, no love.

I am a very big Apple fan. For the past 7/8 years, since I was about 13, I won't use anything other than an Apple computer. I change my computer the day a new model comes out. I have purchased every model of iPod from the iPod 3rd, to the Mini, the Colour, the Video, the Nano, the classic, and back to the new Nano.

I purchased a 1st gen iPhone and loved it. It had its problems, but it served me well for what I needed (a phone, and an iPod, this was before the time of the App Store etc).

Then I purchased a 3G iPhone because, well, it was new.Sure, it had exciting features that were new and noteworthy. But, in all of my life, I have never experienced such a problematic item. I had the yellow screen tint, headphone jacks hanging off, warped casings, chrome bezels not working, cracking and scratches, then there was the freezing up, the 'amazing' Push service, and the forever-crashing Facebook.

I decided to switch over to the BlackBerry because I was bored, bored of the problems, and bored of waiting for things that were promised or expected, but never came.

So, what am I saying?

I'm saying that not all BlackBerry users bash the iPhone. Yes, I had monumental problems with all 6 of my 3G iPhones, but the first iPhone was a marvel, and made a true impact on all forms of technology, earning hundreds of millions of pounds.

It comes down to choice. I now choose BlackBerry. Why? For me, it works better. I cannot fault its e-mail functionality, networking, or reliability. Plus, the social side of things. A lot of my friends are part of the Crackberry lifestyle, and we all use each others PINs to communicate on BBM. I couldn't live without having a keyboard. I can look at someone whilst having a conversation with them, and fire off messages without needing to look at what I'm pressing - something I can't do with the iPhone.

I hate how RIM has tried to become more 'trendy' - butting into the touchscreen market (which BTW, that Storm is horrendous), and the flip phone market. I like my BlackBerry Bold for being candybar, large screen, and full QWERTY. BlackBerry is all about this - not bells and whistles.

But at the same time, I hate how people are trying to say the iPhone is going to take over RIM in the business market. No, no, no. It just won't happen!

I might go back to the iPhone one day, and I might not.

Stop taking it so personally!

It's a phone. It's not gonna die out because a few people on a BlackBerry forum bash it - in the same way you have started a thread, not even bashing BlackBerry devices, but bashing its user' (obsession-ridden, suffering an inferiority complex? Please Dr. Phil, get over yourself).

Fact is, when it comes to e-mail and the business market, BlackBerry was greatest, when Apple tried to penetrate that market, of course it got BB users' backs up. It's competition. It's all good business.

Just get over it. People get passionate about their devices, and its this passion that causes companies like Apple and RIM to make better devices.

However, you really shouldn't include me as a BlackBerry user in the 'obsessive inferiority-complex box, thank you.

 

[Kardashian]

Considering Apple has made specific hardware for the education market, I would expect they make a specific version for any large agency.

Do they? When did they make an iPhone for a specific company?

They tailored eMac's and iMacs for edu, but they don't anymore (TMK)

 

[Kardashian]

On July 11th Apple's foot will connect with RIM's neck and there will be a small snapping sound. RIM will stumble about for a few months and then fall to the floor. If RIM is lucky medics may be able to holster the broken neck and RIM may live on, but RIM will never be back in the ring taking a flying drop kick with the big boys.

You're deluded. Do you realise how many organisations, businesses, companies and personal users RIM has? I'm not bashing the iPhone here at all, for all you major PMT-suffering iPhone lovers, I'm just saying, RIM has a MASSIVE user base. They're not just going to topple because of the release of ONE iPhone.

I can't stand using solely touchscreen. I would need a keyboard in addition to the touchscreen for texting/e-mailing - and many business/hardcore users are the same. Not just RIM users, but any user.

Remember, Apple were late in the mobile phone game. When it came to the iPod, which lets face it, brought them back to life, they were the spearhead of the whole MP3 market - they invented the game.

The iPhone has very good market share, but RIM won't disappear over night, nor do I want it too. (And nor do I want the iPhone too).

They both serve their purpose.

I love my BlackBerry Bold and my UMBP.

Damm - did I just write that ?

Unfortunately, you did.