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NAB video

Here is a full breakdown I found on Vimeo.

I am SO getting this.
My 5diii will be for business, this one will be for my own projects.
 
Here is a full breakdown I found on Vimeo.

I am SO getting this.
My 5diii will be for business, this one will be for my own projects.

Do you mean this one?


Anyway, the specs list 90 minutes battery life, which is integrated, thus one can't change it, and two hour battery charging times while not in use.
While 90 minutes is plenty of time, one probably will need an external battery pack.

Another idea, which came to me while watching the video, it would be nice, if the silver housing would be made of aluminium or some metal, that is durable and protects its innards. Like those Unibody caravans.
 
Do you mean this one?


Anyway, the specs list 90 minutes battery life, which is integrated, thus one can't change it, and two hour battery charging times while not in use.
While 90 minutes is plenty of time, one probably will need an external battery pack.

Another idea, which came to me while watching the video, it would be nice, if the silver housing would be made of aluminium or some metal, that is durable and protects its innards. Like those Unibody caravans.

#FAIL. Yeah, that was the one. LOL.
 
It looks like BMD really nailed the design on this one and put together an incredible package ! Of course it won't be for everyone as it does seem to have a very distinctive softish style to it's images, but personally I find it very pleasing to the eye.

Just need a report on rolling shutter, which I can't imagine being worse than a 5D or D7000, and then I may have to sell my Mac Pro for financing :p

Also, what's the crop factor when using Canon EF lenses on this micro 4:3 sensor ?
 
It looks like BMD really nailed the design on this one and put together an incredible package ! Of course it won't be for everyone as it does seem to have a very distinctive softish style to it's images, but personally I find it very pleasing to the eye.

Just need a report on rolling shutter, which I can't imagine being worse than a 5D or D7000, and then I may have to sell my Mac Pro for financing :p

Also, what's the crop factor when using Canon EF lenses on this micro 4:3 sensor ?

Crop is. 2.3X
 
What's most surprising, IMO, is the camera also comes with their DaVinci Resolve color grading software (normally $999) and their Ultra Scope software (don't know price off hand).

Two years ago DaVinici systems started at like $250k and now the software is bundle in w/a $3k camera purchase.

Unreal.


Lethal

WOW! I hadn't noticed that. This is indeed unreal.

----------

Also, it looks like Apple was really on to something with this whole "metadata" thing.
 
I just heard from a buddy of mine who is at NAB right now. I was surprised to hear that he's pretty disappointed with this camera. He's saying that it feels really cheap, lacks manual controls, and is really geared for the prosumer market. He's saving his money for an 5Dmiii instead.

I'm still going to look into this camera further, but I just thought I'd share.
 
My son is a professional video editor. I asked him what he thought about the Black Magic camera, and he wrote:

"I'm sure the Blackmagic camera shoots beautiful stuff, and I'm sure we'll see a job from it soon. They always make it enticing for directors and prodcos to demo them. But I guess if you sense any annoyance from me it's that they shoot, ignore our specs, and then drop these drives off to us and we have to figure out workflows.

With 5D, Alexa, and Red it's all pretty straight forward at this point, albeit time consuming. With Phantom, and some of the newer cameras, it totally sucks and adds time to our ingest. I'm sure the Blackmagic will be no different, and at the end of the day, it won't matter what we want at all!

From what I've heard the Alexa has really got a choke hold because it accepts all of the ARRI lenses, and that's a really big deal for people. I'd say 60% of our digital jobs are Alexa now."

Just FWIW, from somebody dealing with these things every day.
 
I just heard from a buddy of mine who is at NAB right now. I was surprised to hear that he's pretty disappointed with this camera. He's saying that it feels really cheap, lacks manual controls, and is really geared for the prosumer market. He's saving his money for an 5Dmiii instead.
I haven't heard either of those complaints yet though I do agree that it's prosumer level gear in terms of overall features and price point. 2.5k 12-bit RAW and the DR is totally unheard of, but there's no genlock, TC I/O, XLRs, etc., or other features that you would typically find on professional level piece of gear.

Of course I think it's kinda funny that your friend apparently snubs his nose at the prosumer gear and then sets his sights on a stills camera that happens to have good-enough-to-be-usable video for the around the same price. IMO, only on its best day does the 5DMIII qualify as prosumer level video gear. Heck, I've seen many people say that DMCC is what they hoped the MarkIII would've been (albeit it w/a FF sensor).

With 5D, Alexa, and Red it's all pretty straight forward at this point, albeit time consuming. With Phantom, and some of the newer cameras, it totally sucks and adds time to our ingest. I'm sure the Blackmagic will be no different, and at the end of the day, it won't matter what we want at all!

W/all due respect to your son I don't think he's looked very closely at the BMCC's specs. It has the option to record ProRes and DNxHD files which means you can immediately start editing with these files as they are codecs native to Apple and Avid. No transcoding crappy H.264s (5D) or waiting forever and a day to process R3D files (RED) unless you have a RED Rocket card. The Alexa can record both ProRes and ARRI RAW. The BMCC looks to be the most edit-friendly, file-based camera I've seen in a long time.


Lethal
 
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W/all due respect to your son I don't think he's looked very closely at the BMCC's specs. It has the option to record ProRes and DNxHD files which means you can immediately start editing with these files as they are codecs native to Apple and Avid. No transcoding crappy H.264s (5D) or waiting forever and a day to process R3D files (RED) unless you have a RED Rocket card. The Alexa can record both ProRes and ARRI RAW. The BMCC looks to be the most edit-friendly, file-based camera I've seen in a long time.

Lethal

Well, here's what I wrote him yesterday:

" . . . if this thing delivers as advertised, you won't have to transcode. If I'm reading the material correctly, you as the user can choose what codec it should record in, such as ProRes, DXnHD and so on, and then you pop out the SSD and pop it into your workstation, done. Ready to edit. If that's true, wouldn't that be an amazing workflow boost?"

to which he replied,

"It [would be], but most offline editors will need a compressed intermediary codec that takes up way less bandwidth. We wouldn't be editing with uncompressed quality 4:4:4 material, but for our compositing and online work we'd need it. Try getting a director to try out the camera, but shoot compressed footage. Not gonna happen.

That being said, I could see it working in some situations."

So that's all. I didn't mean to get him in this discussion by proxy. He certainly isn't against the BM camera -- he's just saying that getting DNxHD directly out isn't a big help in his jobs.

And remember, he was just setting the old man straight. I expect he'd be talking about it differently if he were talking with you, Lethal, or another pro.
 
I haven't heard either of those complaints yet though I do agree that it's prosumer level gear in terms of overall features and price point. 2.5k 12-bit RAW and the DR is totally unheard of, but there's no genlock, TC I/O, XLRs, etc., or other features that you would typically find on professional level piece of gear.

Of course I think it's kinda funny that your friend apparently snubs his nose at the prosumer gear and then sets his sights on a stills camera that happens to have good-enough-to-be-usable video for the around the same price. IMO, only on its best day does the 5DMIII qualify as prosumer level video gear. Heck, I've seen many people say that DMCC is what they hoped the MarkIII would've been (albeit it w/a FF sensor).

Lethal

And when I get to hold the camera I may disagree with him. I'll have to wait and see. Like I said, I'm still keeping a very interested eye on this camera. But just looking at it, I can imagine it feeling cheap. I also don't like that it doesn't have a decent grip, like a DSLR. For that price, and with DaVinci* thrown in, I'm hoping I love it.

But as far as the 5DMIII, I see nothing prosumer about it. I've seen the 5DMII take video that blows most professional video cameras out of the water. "good-enough-to-be-usable"? Hardly. Tell that to George Lucas, or the producers of House or SNL. These cameras have done great things. "Prosumer" is way lower on the totem pole, like the 60D or the Rebel T2i. Anything 7D or above is generally considered professional throughout the industry. Cameras like the Red One and the Alexa represent the peak of professional video cameras, but they make up a small portion of the entire spectrum.

*However, throwing in DaVinci really does hint that they're aiming for the pro market. I can't imagine many prosumers taking the time to learn it.
 
And remember, he was just setting the old man straight. I expect he'd be talking about it differently if he were talking with you, Lethal, or another pro.
And that's one of the problems with trying to talk in generalities about workflows. Everyone has their own needs and quirks. It's like walking into a shoe store and asking for the best shoe they have. Well, what you need the shoe for (dancing, basketball, football, etc.,) and what your individual quirks are (the shape of your feet) will determine the best shoe for you. And the best shoe for you might not even be the best shoe for the guy next to you even though you are both looking for a new pair of track shoes.


And when I get to hold the camera I may disagree with him. I'll have to wait and see. Like I said, I'm still keeping a very interested eye on this camera. But just looking at it, I can imagine it feeling cheap. I also don't like that it doesn't have a decent grip, like a DSLR. For that price, and with DaVinci* thrown in, I'm hoping I love it.

But as far as the 5DMIII, I see nothing prosumer about it. I've seen the 5DMII take video that blows most professional video cameras out of the water. "good-enough-to-be-usable"?
You are talking about two separate things, IMO. The spec of the gear and what the gear gets used for are two different things. I've used iDVD to make DVDs for clients but that doesn't make iDVD a pro-level DVD authoring app.

Consumer, prosumer and professional gear is typically separated by price, build quality, features, form factor, etc.,. but what tools you decided to use and how you use them is totally up to you.


Lethal
 
And that's one of the problems with trying to talk in generalities about workflows. Everyone has their own needs and quirks. It's like walking into a shoe store and asking for the best shoe they have. Well, what you need the shoe for (dancing, basketball, football, etc.,) and what your individual quirks are (the shape of your feet) will determine the best shoe for you. And the best shoe for you might not even be the best shoe for the guy next to you even though you are both looking for a new pair of track shoes.



You are talking about two separate things, IMO. The spec of the gear and what the gear gets used for are two different things. I've used iDVD to make DVDs for clients but that doesn't make iDVD a pro-level DVD authoring app.

Consumer, prosumer and professional gear is typically separated by price, build quality, features, form factor, etc.,. but what tools you decided to use and how you use them is totally up to you.


Lethal

Going purely by the specs of the 5DMIII, judging by price, build quality, and features, IMO I find it to be 100% professional. The industry overwhelmingly agrees with this opinion. There's nothing prosumer about it.

The 7D gets a little murkier, but only because it doesn't have a full frame sensor. that's really the only drawback. However, people who have used the camera will generally tell you that this is only a hinderance to non-professionals, since professionals can easily get professional results from it. If you know what you're doing, and how to compensate for the cropped sensor, you're golden. The 60D and the Rebels are considered prosumer, and mostly because of the build, not the results.

Canon, based on conversations with their reps, and their professional product catalogue, consider the 7D to be professional. Their website, however, description describes the 7D as "semi-professional". It seems even Canon can't decide on that one. But Hollywood can. The 7D was used for several shots in Black Swan, according to the 7D wikipedia page. It was used in Red Tails, Red State, House, and SNL. The 5D was recently used in The Avengers.

And that does matter. In the end, being professional has far more to do with results than specs. Final Cut was finally considered professional after Cold Mountain and LOTR, not the addition of some feature. The studios that make those titles, they aren't printing DVDs on iDVD, even though you might. Those productions are as professional as this industry gets.

Also, regarding, "there's no genlock, TC I/O, XLRs, etc," a lot of professionals don't need those. Those are minor worries.

P.S. I use iDVD sometimes too. :)
 
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Going purely by the specs of the 5DMIII, judging by price, build quality, and features, IMO I find it to be 100% professional. The industry overwhelmingly agrees with this opinion. There's nothing prosumer about it.
For a stills only camera I agree. For a broadcast or d-cinema camera I disagree. No Genlock, no TC I/O, no HD-SDI, no XLR, no built in ND, no phantom power, no clean video output, etc. Whether or not everyone uses all these features all the time doesn't change the fact that pro level cameras come with them (though d-ciname cameras and b-cast cameras typically have slightly different feature sets).

When I look on Canon's pages for their HD video cameras and Cinema series cameras I don't see the 60D, 7D nor 5D listed there. ;)

Canon, based on conversations with their reps, and their professional product catalogue, consider the 7D to be professional. Their website, however, description describes the 7D as "semi-professional". It seems even Canon can't decide on that one. But Hollywood can. The 7D was used for several shots in Black Swan, according to the 7D wikipedia page. It was used in Red Tails, Red State, House, and SNL. The 5D was recently used in The Avengers.
Spike Lee, Danny Boyle and Steven Soderbergh all made theatrically released feature films using DV cameras as the primary camera (not a 'B' cam, not a crash cam, not a we-can't-get-anything-else-to-physically-fit-in-this-space cam, but as the 'A' camera) but that doesn't mean the DVX100 and XL1 weren't prosumer cameras. Prosumer HD cameras like the Z1U and HVX200 have been used in various aspects of movie and TV production for years but that doesn't mean that they are anything more than prosumer cameras being used on some high level productions.

This is more of a general rant and not meant for any one person, but I'm always surprised at the Napoleon Complex that some people seem to have when it comes to their gear. Back when I was shooting w/a prosumer DV camera I never felt compelled to convince the guy w/the BetaSP camera next to me that my rig was as good as his and when I was the guy w/the BetaSP I never felt compelled to look down at the guy w/the DV rig. It is what it is and there's different markets of gear for a reason (just like any other product).

Not everyone can afford to spend $18k on just a camera body and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you think concessions aren't made in order to sell a $3k camera body yer just being delusional. There's no reason for people with high-end gear to look down at people with budget gear and there's no reason for people with budget gear to try and convince everyone w/in earshot that it's as good as the high-end gear. What matters is the end product as a whole and that's much more than the sum of the gear used to make it.


Lethal
 
For a stills only camera I agree. For a broadcast or d-cinema camera I disagree. No Genlock, no TC I/O, no HD-SDI, no XLR, no built in ND, no phantom power, no clean video output, etc. Whether or not everyone uses all these features all the time doesn't change the fact that pro level cameras come with them (though d-ciname cameras and b-cast cameras typically have slightly different feature sets).

When I look on Canon's pages for their HD video cameras and Cinema series cameras I don't see the 60D, 7D nor 5D listed there. ;)


Spike Lee, Danny Boyle and Steven Soderbergh all made theatrically released feature films using DV cameras as the primary camera (not a 'B' cam, not a crash cam, not a we-can't-get-anything-else-to-physically-fit-in-this-space cam, but as the 'A' camera) but that doesn't mean the DVX100 and XL1 weren't prosumer cameras. Prosumer HD cameras like the Z1U and HVX200 have been used in various aspects of movie and TV production for years but that doesn't mean that they are anything more than prosumer cameras being used on some high level productions.

This is more of a general rant and not meant for any one person, but I'm always surprised at the Napoleon Complex that some people seem to have when it comes to their gear. Back when I was shooting w/a prosumer DV camera I never felt compelled to convince the guy w/the BetaSP camera next to me that my rig was as good as his and when I was the guy w/the BetaSP I never felt compelled to look down at the guy w/the DV rig. It is what it is and there's different markets of gear for a reason (just like any other product).

Not everyone can afford to spend $18k on just a camera body and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you think concessions aren't made in order to sell a $3k camera body yer just being delusional. There's no reason for people with high-end gear to look down at people with budget gear and there's no reason for people with budget gear to try and convince everyone w/in earshot that it's as good as the high-end gear. What matters is the end product as a whole and that's much more than the sum of the gear used to make it.


Lethal


I think it doesn't matter anymore it's all about diminisng returns, can a viwer really tell the difference between a 60D and a RED Epic when they are watching it on Vimeo or on a appleTV? Would they care?

I just like to have a camera that shoots ProRes to make the editing process a little less of a hassle. I doubt most people that buy this thing will have no
idea what to do with the extra dynamic range. I must admit I won't because I could never figure out Apple Color and have not even tried Resolve yet.
 
I think it doesn't matter anymore it's all about diminisng returns, can a viwer really tell the difference between a 60D and a RED Epic when they are watching it on Vimeo or on a appleTV? Would they care?
W/that logic no TV shows should've ever been shot on film. If you can pull a cleaner key, rope back in some highlight detail, enlarge a shot for stabilization (or reframing) in post w/o it pixelating, use deep focus w/o fear of moire killing the shot or push & pull the image in post w/o it falling apart you can create a noticeably better image even on Vimeo or :apple:TV. Whether or not the viewer will care depends on the individual. That's really a non-issue to me though because it's my goal to do the best I can in the time I have with material I have.

There's certainly a point of diminishing returns, always has been, but I don't think the 60D and the Epic are neighbors on that scale. We are certainly in a time now where there are a plethora of tools which on one hand is fantastic because people can find exactly what works best for them, but on the other hand some people think about the tools too much and get sucked into perpetually waiting for the next big thing that's just around the corner.

I just like to have a camera that shoots ProRes to make the editing process a little less of a hassle. I doubt most people that buy this thing will have no
idea what to do with the extra dynamic range. I must admit I won't because I could never figure out Apple Color and have not even tried Resolve yet.
If someone is willing to drop $3k on a camera I hope they have at least some clue as to why they are doing it. ;)

As far as the dynamic range goes, it's there all the time. You don't need to use some special software after the fact to 'activate' it. For example, have you ever filmed indoors where there was a window and once you properly exposed the subject the window was just a white blob? If the camera you used had sufficient dynamic range then you could have both the subject and the window be properly exposed (or at the very least not have it look like a nuclear bomb just went off outside).


Lethal
 
For a stills only camera I agree. For a broadcast or d-cinema camera I disagree. No Genlock, no TC I/O, no HD-SDI, no XLR, no built in ND, no phantom power, no clean video output, etc. Whether or not everyone uses all these features all the time doesn't change the fact that pro level cameras come with them (though d-ciname cameras and b-cast cameras typically have slightly different feature sets).

When I look on Canon's pages for their HD video cameras and Cinema series cameras I don't see the 60D, 7D nor 5D listed there. ;)


Spike Lee, Danny Boyle and Steven Soderbergh all made theatrically released feature films using DV cameras as the primary camera (not a 'B' cam, not a crash cam, not a we-can't-get-anything-else-to-physically-fit-in-this-space cam, but as the 'A' camera) but that doesn't mean the DVX100 and XL1 weren't prosumer cameras. Prosumer HD cameras like the Z1U and HVX200 have been used in various aspects of movie and TV production for years but that doesn't mean that they are anything more than prosumer cameras being used on some high level productions.

This is more of a general rant and not meant for any one person, but I'm always surprised at the Napoleon Complex that some people seem to have when it comes to their gear. Back when I was shooting w/a prosumer DV camera I never felt compelled to convince the guy w/the BetaSP camera next to me that my rig was as good as his and when I was the guy w/the BetaSP I never felt compelled to look down at the guy w/the DV rig. It is what it is and there's different markets of gear for a reason (just like any other product).

Not everyone can afford to spend $18k on just a camera body and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you think concessions aren't made in order to sell a $3k camera body yer just being delusional. There's no reason for people with high-end gear to look down at people with budget gear and there's no reason for people with budget gear to try and convince everyone w/in earshot that it's as good as the high-end gear. What matters is the end product as a whole and that's much more than the sum of the gear used to make it.


Lethal

Ok buddy... if you say so.

I'll stick in reality, where I'm making tons of money producing professional content using this so-called "bargain" equipment. The film, tv, and event video industries consider it professional, but no XLR. Sure... I get it. ::chuckle::
 
I can't imagine there not being some sort of catch at this price/spec ratio, but the design alone is really, really impressive. I love how everything is logically located and there's not a lot of fluff that need not clutter things up. Hell, I'd love to buy this camera if it was 1080p. It's just a gorgeous design and I hope it works out well. Would seriously consider getting one down the line if it's a solid performer.
 
Crop is bad. This is not run and gun

Like I said earlier, I will use this for my personal projects that are very controlled. The ergonomics of this camera do not appear to favor a run and gun shooting style, or that require quick changes on the fly. It appears the mark3 will still be my preferred choice for faster stuff.

2.2 crop?!
that turns my 11-16 tokina into a 22mm at the widest? yucky.

But Lethal is right. The dyanmic range and the ability to manipulate alot of the imaging in post is still going to make youtube videos look amazing. Doesn't youtube take 2k files now?
 
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