I like playing the guessing game of how a few posters on MR feel the tens of millions Apple customers who have a phone with a notch feel. I think the 1% grossly overestimate how the 99% feel, while the 98% really don't give a hoot.
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Bloomberg: 5G iPhones to Feature Flat Edges and Slimmer Notch, Smaller HomePod and AirTags Also Coming This Year
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You are not wrong, but many people are saddened to have to abandon the Apple universe especially that they really like some aspects of it like iOS over Android and MacOS over Windows, but things like prices, configurations, build quality, upgradability makes them move away unwillingly. I guess they are sad to see their favorite company fade.
I want the stupid notch gone, or the ability to customize the top toolbar. Not being able to see if my alarm is set or my battery percentage is absolutely absurd. Also, if I force zoom a movie to full screen, everything in the notch area is cut off. Why are we taking steps backward to accommodate an ugly design choice? Just put a 1/4 inch bezel all the way across and be done with it!
All companies should fade like Apple. In fact, most companies would give anything to fade like Apple did.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I think that by this point people TOLERATE the notch.
The iPhone sells because iMessage rocks, people are invested in or like iOS, it integrates with their other Apple devices better than anything else, and in most other areas (speed, cameras) it is either excellent or at the very least, competitive.
The notch is easily ignored and accustomed to when you value the above, and even more so if you like FaceID.
And hey, I'm a Note user, so I agree the notch is hideous. But it's the sum of the parts, when combined with user-preferences, that determines the individual's choice here. And given the iPhone is the single best-selling phone since forever, well...
Apple has the strongest portfolio of Mac, iPad and iPhone they’ve ever had. The lineups include a wide range of excellent products at various prices.
Be that as it may, if OP thinks the iPad isn’t a good product, or one that isn’t worth the money, he should absolutely feel free find a tablet that better suits him. But for obvious reasons I find the premise difficult to buy into.
Some are simply so entitled and self centered that if Apple doesn’t make the exact product they want, at a price they want to pay, they think that’s somehow Apple’s problem. It’s not. Apple’s job isn’t to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
If someone wants to drone on interminably day after day about how they want a no-notch phone in a specific size at an unrealistic price, and keep pointing at Apple and complaining and complaining, pointing their finger saying Apple needs to do this and needs to do that—no. No they don’t.
Just because someone wants something, that doesn’t mean Apple needs to make it for them. And just because Apple won’t make them what they want doesn’t mean Apple has lost its way or Apple is fading.
Sometimes the problem is located right there in the mirror, and that person needs to look at who they’re actually pointing their finger at.
I want to focus on the word tolerate, because that is what we do as consumers when we buy consumer products. We figure out what is important and what is important do we like "it" or dislike "it" and make our buying decisions from there.
Very few android phones have face id equivalent to the iphone and those that do (even those that don't), have off-center holes, pop-up flashes, big chins, big foreheads, bigger bezels etc. Consumers make a buying decision and tolerate these design items in the same way as iphone users. In fact consumers "tolerate" more things then design, such as: warranty period, support period, frequency of software updates.
For me, I tolerate the notch because my first priority is operating system. But it does give the iphone a distinctive look and interesting how it's been copied.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
True, but sometimes the problem is Apple:
2013 Mac Pro
1-port MacBook
Soldered storage and RAM
HIGH upgrade prices
Device slowdown
hockey puck mouse
magic mouse
iOS stagnation/limitations
small screen sizes (or now too big)
dongle hell
keyboards
Etc.
It's not unreasonable for customers that rely on certain tools to become indignant when Apple suddenly doesn't fill the needs they did previously. It's hard for people to unfreeze and let go, and in some situations it'll cost money to do so.
I agree, though, Apple's lineup TODAY is the best it's been in almost 10 years, because they've either addressed the above, or the industry/technology has caught up (Apple loves to jump the gun).
For me, it was easy to leave iOS in the dust after iOS 7 came out and Apple would not let me revert back to my device's original OS (iPhone 4s). Samsung has been taking my money ever since, although NOW I'm looking to come back. Maybe. I still find iOS harder/less intuitive to use.
On the other hand, going Windows for me was NOT happening, however I had to wait for Apple to fix the issues I mentioned (I'm still on 2011/2012 hardware).
So I could see how others said "the hell with waiting". But yes, it's me who says yay or nay to what Apple puts out. Apple in no way, shape, or form, is REQUIRED to cater to my needs or tastes.
The Tim Cook era taught me to NOT EXPECT what I want from Apple. I guess I was more in tune with Steve's tastes.
EDIT: I guess not, some of the things on the list were under Steve
It was actually a good thing, because now I can appreciate the devices for what they are/can do without (so much) passion.
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When you think of profits to the stockholders , yes. Using this logic don't be surprised to see Disney turn into pornography productions if it will make them more money, or Rolex start churning out Casio like watches. Disney stands for child&family entertainment, and Rolex stands for high quality luxury watches and thats why people like them. People liked Apple because because its the easy to use, plug and play, pleasant to use personal computer/gadget. Here are Apple's own ads personifying their Mac as a cool casual guy not David Beckham.
Not in Disney's core ethos as iphones and ecosystem are part of Apple core philosophy and offerings.
Why would Rolex do this?
What you said above goes against what you said earlier. Apple is doing what Apple should be doing, imo. Producing products that everyone can use.
My comments on the items in your list are above in blue. Apple makes their share of mistakes, no doubt about it. I think a bigger issue is bugs and relatively poor QA (yeah, it’s hard to do right) but hopefully they can get their act together.True, but sometimes the problem is Apple:
2013 Mac Pro—overall a misread of the market and the customer base. Poor product management, took too long to recognize the problem, and took too long to fix. But they got it right imo.
1-port MacBook—not a problem for the target market, road warriors who need a machine that’ll fit on an airplane tray table, and typically plug in nothing. With a USB-C hub at home and/or office, not a particular problem.
Soldered storage and RAM—done for good reasons, like LPDDR3 isn’t available in a socketed package; it must be soldered. RAM is socketed on desktops.
re:storage, again done for reasons. It’s much lower profile for laptops (customers, not Jony, wanted thinner, lighter) and security via onboard T2 encrypting controller. Desktops can use inexpensive USB or even TB3 external drives very easily.
HIGH upgrade prices—better than the alternative: high base model prices, but cheaper upgrades.
Device slowdown—if you mean the so-called battery gate, Apple should have been more transparent and said exactly how it worked when it was added, but it’s the right strategy (slowing down instead of shutting down with deteriorated batteries
hockey puck mouse—very unergonomic and just horrible overall. (Jobs loved it—what was he thinking? Form over function I guess.) But I worked for Logitech at the time and it worked out well for us lol
Magic Mouse—not sure of the issue. If that’s the one with the charging connector on the bottom, it’s not a great implementation but it doesn’t seem to be a dealbreaker for most.
iOS stagnation/limitations—it is what it is, not a whole lot to say. It’s a difference in UX philosophy mostly.
small screen sizes (or now too big)—maybe Apple took too long to offer bigger displays, but 2013 was a long time ago. 3.5” is dead, 4” is dead, and 4.7” will be dead in 3-4 years, when the SE 3 will probably be a derivative of the 6.1” 11, available in 2023/2024. Most people want larger displays 🤷♂️ It’s a pocket computer, not a phone. For quite a few, their only computer
dongle hell—overblown for the most part, many simply bought new cables and/or an adapter or two. Some went USB-C or TB3 dock at home and/or work, which is probably the best approach imo
keyboards—yeah the butterfly didn’t work out and they took too long to fix it. They thought they could iterate it—and by most accounts the 2019 version is not especially problematic—but the damage was done. They’ve probably been working and testing the scissor since 2017.
Etc.
It's not unreasonable for customers that rely on certain tools to become indignant when Apple suddenly doesn't fill the needs they did previously. It's hard for people to unfreeze and let go, and in some situations it'll cost money to do so.
I agree, though, Apple's lineup TODAY is the best it's been in almost 10 years, because they've either addressed the above, or the industry/technology has caught up (Apple loves to jump the gun).
For me, it was easy to leave iOS in the dust after iOS 7 came out and Apple would not let me revert back to my device's original OS (iPhone 4s). Samsung has been taking my money ever since, although NOW I'm looking to come back. Maybe. I still find iOS harder/less intuitive to use.
On the other hand, going Windows for me was NOT happening, however I had to wait for Apple to fix the issues I mentioned (I'm still on 2011/2012 hardware).
So I could see how others said "the hell with waiting". But yes, it's me who says yay or nay to what Apple puts out. Apple in no way, shape, or form, is REQUIRED to cater to my needs or tastes.
The Tim Cook era taught me to NOT EXPECT what I want from Apple. I guess I was more in tune with Steve's tastes.
EDIT: I guess not, some of the things on the list were under Steve
It was actually a good thing, because now I can appreciate the devices for what they are/can do without (so much) passion.
I watch movies on my iPhone all the time. I have a holder that holds it about 8 inches from my face. With AirPods, it’s a prime movie experience.
Agreed, it's an illogical and bad compromise with notch screen design and Apple needs to refrain from implementing it for the sake of making it right.
The above, except for device slowdown(similar to windows slowdown?), which I have no idea what that means, but the remainder are all user expectation problems; especially iOS stagnation...android really hasn’t moved the needle either over the last few years...just some new fresh paint.
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Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
You can call them user expectation problems, I call them gaps in features competitors do offer, which can drive users to competing platforms (the point of the post). The fact that Android hasn't moved the needle is irrelevant when it has had features for a while that Apple still doesn't provide on iPhone.
However, I did point out that Apple addressed most of these, and that yes, user preference is a factor in weighing pros vs cons on each device.
BTW, device slowdown refers to the incident where Apple got caught and was fined for slowing down older devices.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I agree with most of your comments. Most of the issues I have with their actions are timing-based (too soon to go USB-C only and headphone jack-less, or took too long to fix those keyboards and add PC-like features to the iPad, etc).
Perhaps there's been some turmoil within Apple (with several high-profile individuals like Ive leaving) that has impacted this. To me it seems like they had too many balls in the air to juggle.
But I think they're getting back on track. I like what I see on the iPad side, and hopefully this year they'll get back on the Mac ball. The Mac Pro was a good (if slightly out of touch) start, as was the Air and 16" MBP. Now they need to fix their software!
For the first time in a while, I'm curious to see what's next. I came THIS CLOSE to jumping ship myself (been using Win 10 for work and it's both fast and rock-solid). But there is just no substitute for Mac OS for me.
Just pointing out that "gaps" goes both ways. (But I think you were alluding to that gaps are a two way street)
You're right, but as I just said, things go both ways.
I couldn't agree more.
The slowdown is still with IOS users although talk of it has declined to be almost imperceptible.
it never made sense to have any notch and it's unbelievable how Apple can be so stupid.
oh yes because those 99% cares so much about the notch that made the iphone 11 the best selling fone.
You are right, I think it's way more than that and overpriced equipment from Tim Cook.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I have been giving great thought to the notch, and while I'm a proponent of not having it, I think I understand why it's there.
I believe Apple meant it to be extra screen "horns" in a space that would be unusable by having a bezel. I mean, look at all the wasted space on the SE. I wish Apple would have moved that sensor to the back Apple logo instead, but that's another story.
Perhaps the team was going to have a long bezel on top but said hey, we can put the cellular info and battery there instead.
When I look at it that way it makes sense, even if I don't like it from an aesthetic standpoint.
No, mate. It won't give you the exact same viewing experience. It'll mean the picture is smaller. By a fair chunk as well. Such is the compromise.
I never mentioned rounded corners. Don't care about that.
Enjoy the smaller notch in this year's model if you grab it. It's not a deal breaker, but If I'm going to spend that much I'm going to wait for No Notch next year. And if there is a Notch next year I'll get an Android. Haha... no I won't. that's just being silly and petulant!
The notch will be gone on iPhone 12 and the customers who wish to make facetime call can buy a lightning to camera module from Apple.