Bloomberg: Apple's First Arm Mac to Launch by 2021 With 12-Core Processor

[GubbyMan]

Difference to the old 12" MacBook would be, a 12-core A-something chip would blow out any current Intel or AMD chip out of the water. Like so badly. A14 single-core is almost on-par with whatever Intel currently has. And that is comparing a passively cooled phone with heavily, actively cooled workstations that draw 10x-20x the power.

At this point I'm convinced they are going to transparently emulate x86-64 and it will still be decent performance. It's insane.

Yes! Keep the same size, bump the screen to >12.5" with smaller bezels, add a second USB-C on the other side, change to new keyboard and add TouchID. Apples 12-core chip built on 5nm TSMC process will have the performance of a 16" MacBook Pro but in a fanless form factor and a 10 hour battery even under load. GPU is probably worse than dedicated AMD but better than any Intel integrated one.

Also while we're at it, put a 120Hz promotion display.

 

[724699]

I don't see anything wrong with this. If they can match or outperform Intel, for heavy workstation & computational tasks then go for it. As long as if something like the Mac Pro maintains upgradeability, then why the heck not.

It would allow Apple the ability to increase the rate of system development and not be stuck waiting for a company like Intel to release CPU's and new features like Thunderbolt controllers on time. Since Intel has now made USB4/Thunderbolt 4 open for use and development, that removes a major hurdle for advancement in system development for laptops, iMacs and Mac Pros.

This could be good ... if the transition goes smoothly. I doubt I will be a 1st adopter that's for sure, but down the line this could end up being very beneficial long-term.

 

[name99]

They JUST released this amazing laptop that fixed all the problems and they just couldn't resist toying with it again and (probably) ****ing it up. It's so frustrating as a consumer to constantly go into forums and read "Yeah, everyone agrees year X is the best but the company refuses to rebuild it."

And worst of all, they will FORCE you to buy it?
No? They won't? You can keep using the laptop you are happy with, for five years or more, until the new ones have all their issues sorted out?

So what exactly are you complaining about?
Apple is offering YOU and people like you a great device now. And they are offering ME and people like me waiting for the ARM mac a great device next year.
Sounds like a pretty good deal all round...

 

[anshuvorty]

I am pretty sure these 1st-gen ARM-based laptops are going to be pricey, right?

 

[ph001bi]

I'm a musician and producer. Audio apps were another area where lots of money had to be spent going forward.
Some apps never got reproduced on the x86 Mac side. I just would rather not do that again if I don't have to.

If these are apps you really need to continue using, why don't you start lobbying the developer right now?
"Have you moved to Xcode yet?" "When are you moving to Xcode?", "why aren't you on Xcode yet?". Eventually they'll get bored and use the right tools. If they struggled to move to X86 from PowerPC, something which happened 15 years ago and was a 2 years transitions, maybe this is not the right App for you, and there aren't the right type of developers?

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

It is going to be interesting. However one of the many reasons I prefer Macs is that they can run anything. I can use VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox or even Bootcamp to run and develop for Linux and Windows at nearly native speeds. Moving to ARM would most likely eliminate that option. I don't know how big of group that is, but I do know that Macs have become many developers primary systems because of that ability.

Exactly. One machine, develop for literally any platform. Only Intel Macs can do this.

 

[maflynn]

It cracks me up that so many people are assuming this will be a full migration away from Intel. Why all the histrionics?

I'm glad my post cracks you up, yet I didn't say anything about a full migration. I'm of the opinion that if Apple starts rolling out laptops or desktops that are ARM based, people with a need to run windows will be concerned about spending 3,000+ dollars on a product that they may not feel apple is fully behind.

Just look at Apple's support of Bootcamp, its tepid at best with driver issues aplenty.

 

[fuchsdh]

A new passively cooled 12 or 11" could make sense to serve as a testbed for performance of MacOS on ARM.

I don't really think this is true. We already see how thin-and-light, passively-cooled chips work on ARM—they smoke Intel.

The constant refrain about why Apple shouldn't use ARM is 1) Windows/Boot camp support, and 2) that ARM is unproven and/or can't scale to the high-end performance under heavy loads of Xeons or the like. It's there that Apple has to demonstrate the critics are wrong.

 

[ph001bi]

I am pretty sure these 1st-gen ARM-based laptops are going to be pricey, right?

As opposed to the 15th gens dirt-cheap Intel laptops we've got now?

 

[jMc]

Let’s hope they don’t wait till then for the iMac redesign, but I suspect they will. Don’t see them introducing a new design if the internals will drastically change less than a year later. However I still hope for that iMac redesign every day.

They did it for the G5 shortly before the Intel transition.

jMc

 

[Orionfox]

That may be your bench mark. But the iOS community of gamers dwarfs the PC gamer eco-system and other 'tired' 'high quality' bobbing gun shooter games. (See Doom Eternal. Is that any better than Doom 3?)

I find most PC games quite tedious. I prefer the old school 'concept' games of iOS tickle my fancy more.

I personally think many iOS games are far more original in concept and style of graphics.


Azrael.

One of things people miss is that different platforms attract different people. IOS games don't play the same as Console games. Console game have been different than computer games since C64 v Atari 2600. Computers attract hard core RPG gamers that you cant really play on console, or IOS.

Games like EQ, WoW and SWToR are still going strong and putting out expansions or relaunching the original versions.

The shooter games can be found on every platform and work well. Full fledged MMORPGs cant. Junior RGs or kiddies games sure. But not the real games.

 

[anshuvorty]

As opposed to the 15th gens laptop we've got now?

What I mean is, is Apple going to be charging a premium for these laptops, as compared to their Intel-based counterparts? In other words, will I have to pay around $2000 for the 11-inch/13-inch variants, as opposed to the 13-inch Intel-based MacBook Pro, which starts at $1299?

 

[ssgbryan]

I can answer for some: applications - some developers are still butthurt over the whole opengl to metal conversion and simply dropped the Mac altogether and stayed with Windows on x86. This is a way I can run both sides without having
to purchase an additional machine just to run windows x86 software that by necessity I must use. If I was a hobbyist
without professional needs I suppose I could get away with it but why not use an iPad since that's basically an apple
touch computer that doesn't use x86 processors?

It isn't being "butthurt". It is looking at the size of the market, and realizing that the cost to move from openGL to metal isn't worth the cost.

There will be more of this in the future.

 

[cmaier]

Via are an x86 licensee so most likely it was a Via x86 CPU. Transmeta did have a CPU that sort of worked like that. Was not very fast though

What they lacked in technical expertise and execution they made up for in unsupportable arrogance.

Most likely no since those are based on CISC.

Citrix is just a remote screen viewer. It already runs on ipad. It will run on an Arm-Mac.

This has FAIL written all over it. ARM isn’t good enough yet to surrender x86 and its billions of software for crappy mobile apps on a laptop form factor. Lololz

Yes it is.

And there is more Arm software than x86 software, by at least a couple orders of magnitude.

 

[iZac]

Macs being able to natively run iOS apps will be massive, it will also encourage developers to really pour effort into the iPad. It only took Adobe 10 years for a half baked Photoshop, this might actually give them the shove the need.

Apple have also just released the ‘perfect’ legacy machine as well, so everyone who needs x86 will be good for a while.

 

[ericwn]

And this is exactly why Apple should just fire everyone except a team to release the same Mac with new colors every year.

And socks - Mac socks - always just one - are urgently needed!

 

[mnsportsgeek]

It's cute how you proceed to completely trivialize someone else simply because they disagree with your viewpoint.

yes, because it was a lazy, shock value hot take. “The death of Mac.“ Give me a break.

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

If you remember, Steve said that Mac OS X was built by design to be processor independent. From Mac OS X 10.0, it was compiled for both Intel + PPC. Of course we didn't learn this until June 2005 at what I feel is the best WWDC ever, I still remember it back in 8th grade. The link brings you back to Steve announcing the PPC to Intel transition.


Notably, that keynote said that Mac OS X had set them up for the next 20 years (from its conception), which was 2000 and now we are in 2020. I don't think macOS will be sidelined, but I can't help but wonder if there has been transitions behind the scenes without us knowing all along... they've done it before. I wonder if the transitions to only 64-bit applications has ARM as part of the decision making.


Side note: I'm nostalgic. The ad released at this WWDC was amazing. It gave me goose bumps back then, and it still does today. Crazy to watch it first on an iMac G5 1.9 GHz and now on an 8-core Intel i9 16" MacBook Pro 15 years later:

 

[ct2k7]

Maybe it won't have Thunderbolt, like the 2015-2017 rMB

That sounds sad

 

[tgwaste]

Ill take a 12" version. I still hold the 12" macbook was the best laptop ever made. I wish it would had gotten more updates.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Politics sometimes tend to change when they no longer seem fruitful. What politics is holding them back from working with them?

Machine Learning.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

And worst of all, they will FORCE you to buy it?
No? They won't? You can keep using the laptop you are happy with, for five years or more, until the new ones have all their issues sorted out?

So what exactly are you complaining about?
Apple is offering YOU and people like you a great device now. And they are offering ME and people like me waiting for the ARM mac a great device next year.
Sounds like a pretty good deal all round...

I will just print this and wait for you next year complaining about this and then I will slap this over your face. HA!

 

[ph001bi]

What I mean is, is Apple going to be charging a premium for these laptops, as compared to their Intel-based counterparts? In other words, will I have to pay around $2000 for the 11-inch/13-inch variants, as opposed to the 13-inch Intel-based MacBook Pro, which starts at $1299?

ARM processors are significantly cheaper than Intel's. Obviously, Apple would have to offer a lot more cores than Intel and this will have a cost but I don't expect to see any difference up or down by moving to ARM.
There was no difference when they moved from 68000 to PowerPC or when they moved from PowerPC to X86, and then from X86 to X64. The A13 is apparently worth 15 bucks. That's the same as Qualcomm 865. Processor costs won't influence the value of the Hardware. They're such a small part of BOM.

 

[NickName99]

I'm glad my post cracks you up, yet I didn't say anything about a full migration. I'm of the opinion that if Apple starts rolling out laptops or desktops that are ARM based, people with a need to run windows will be concerned about spending 3,000+ dollars on a product that they may not feel apple is fully behind.

Just look at Apple's support of Bootcamp, its tepid at best with driver issues aplenty.

No you totally make good points, I’m not trying to mock you, don’t get me wrong. I agree that Bootcamp support has been tepid at best, I would probably choose those same words. I actually use drivers from bootcampdrivers for my eGPU to play nice with Bootcamp on my 15” 2018 MacBook Pro.

I think if people really need 100% solid Windows support, they’re not going to go with Apple. Apple has never really wanted you running Windows, they want you running Mac OS X. I don’t think this changes that calculus appreciably. Maybe a tiny bit. Meh.

The demographic in these forums is pretty geeky, we like to show off that we remember all the big transitions. Many people in here are jumping to conclusions about this being a full migration away from Intel, but that would be needlessly reckless for Apple to do. At this point they’ve got all the money and all the talent they need to try whatever they want. These aren’t the same circumstances as when they switched from 68k to PPC, or from PPC to Intel. Apple made those transitions while fighting for their very existence. Apple is now thriving, they’re the biggest market cap company on the stock market. No need to put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[topdrawer]

ARM processors are significantly cheaper than Intel's. Obviously Apple would have to offer a lot more cores than Intel and this will have a cost but I don't expect to see any difference up or down by moving to ARM.
There was no difference when they moved from 68000 to PowerPC or when they moved from PowerPC to X86, and then from X86 to X64. The A13 is apparently worth 15 bucks. That's the same as Qualcomm 865. Processor costs won't influence the value of the Hardware. They're such a small part of BOM.

ram will still be like 400 dollars for 16gbs