Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Personally, AI isn’t interesting. I’m not wowed by things created by a machine, and I would never rely on machine learning instead of learning about something myself.

I’m kinda sad about the direction tech is going in. Isolation with Vision Pro, lazy reliance with “AI”. I don’t know what I expected to be happening at this point, but I know that these things weren’t it.

Tech is best when it enhances our minds, inspires us to be creative. I find AI super lame, because even if it is always right, if you rely on it than all it takes is that one time for it to be catastrophically wrong. It’s just intellectually lazy, asking our computers to create images and stories for us. Where’s the fun in that?

This is obviously the direction we’re heading in. I’m just hoping that it’s opt-out, because I don’t see the value and philosophically I have fundamental issues with it.

I admit I don’t know what we should be focusing on instead. I just get bad vibes from the direction our tech seems to be going in.
You sound like someone complaining about the calculator when it was released.

“Gone are the days we have to use our minds, now we rely on a machine that is never wrong. Its intellectually lazy. Math enhances the mind. We shouldn't just turn off and use a calculator etc.

AI will help us stretch and push to places we have never been. Its an amazing tool to learn with and can absolutely be intellectually stimulating. I'd recommended revisiting the way you look at it, as it sounds you'll be stuck and miss out on great opportunities.
 
I always asked myself, what this "Neural engine" in my iPhone is really good for?!
Now i hear, it was already obsolete when it came out on my iPhone 12 Pro - what a bummer!:mad:

A good reminder (of which we get constantly) to never ... and I mean NEVER... buy tech with future features in mind

If one is thinking about "future proofing" with a tech purchase, stop that thought straight away.

Pay for what it is and what it does at the time of purchase -- full stop
 
The number of people being so much against AI in total is staggering and makes me dumbfounded.

I'm not talking about people having doubts about this or that solution, or talking about the need for restrictions on certain implementations, or talking about safety. I'm talking about total opponents for whom AI = bad, "remove and stop it!" I'm really reliving the early '00s again. "internet bad and useless!"

What the guys in Redmond are currently doing doesn't help (the Recall "disaster"). AI should always be opt-in IMHO.

If I don't use it or don't want to use it, then don't use my data to learn AI in the background.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TVreporter
This is the same pathway that we saw from iTunes to Apple Music. Maybe not a one-for-one analogy, but the end result will be the same. The masses will choose convenience. Sure, you can still buy individual tracks on iTunes, but the vast majority of users opt for streaming because it's easier and cheaper for them in the long run. However, it hurts the artists making the music the most.

In a similar way, though this may be "opt-in", it will quickly become the norm. AI is here to stay and has already begun to disrupt the livelihoods of artists and content creators. Apple's incorporation of ChatGPT into its ecosystem will only accelerate that process.
 
Exactly, Gemini on Pixels and Galaxy is great because its useful stuff like photo editing or email summaries.

the average user does not want a freaking chat bot or cares if its on device or not, they just want cool stuff and it feels like all these leaks have Apple crapping their pants and rushing to shove some coked up Siri in our faces.

It's likely that since the average user probably has towards zero knowledge of the breadth & depth about what A.I. could do, this is actually a case of "people don't know what they want until we show it to them."

Apply our O.I. (organic intelligence) to the concept. What can be done with "intelligence?" When it comes to O.I., the "I" part can do towards everything. With enough "I" applied, we can figure out how to make fire, invent a wheel, understand leverage, grow crops, overcome predators, develop language, pass our own discoveries/innovations to the next generation so they can build upon them, etc. Give that enough time and we can figure out how to put people on the moon, develop Apple silicon, cure terrible diseases, travel from London to NYC in 2 hours, video chat with someone at the far side of the planet for towards free, make weapons so powerful that we can't possibly lose any war if we dare use them, etc.

Now think about A.I. Do any of us know where it is now? Is it not yet able to invent a wheel if none existed? Since it conceptually has access to all the O.I. that has ever been written down, is at least its "memory" already beyond ANY O.I. brain (as NONE of us biological units know everything stored online)? Is it like a toddler with rich capability to learn but hardly any knowledge? Is it like a very old brain with rich data stored but failing processing to be able to still utilize all of that data in the most productive ways?

We don't know. I'm not even sure if those deep in the know, know for sure. Great O.I. builds upon whatever each person can learn... which tends to be narrow snippets of all knowledge that is available. Conceptually A.I. has access to nearly all accumulated knowledge available now. O.I. has some number of years to learn to interpret situations, many ways to think about what is happening and thus apply whatever knowledge or creative it has. A.I. is practically toddler-like in having much less "life" experience to gain the processing of how to make sense of the vast data it has and how to apply it, be creative, etc.

O.I. probably reaches its peak "balance" (if you will) in middle age... when our RAM & SSD is pretty loaded with about as much knowledge as any one of us can accumulate paired with the experience in how and what to do with what we know. A.I. doesn't have to learn at a human pace and thus may not need 30-50 years to reach peak capability. It won't even need to check out for towards 8 hours each night... nor "hate" certain classes, rebel, waste lots of time chasing nothing that really grows itself, etc. No emotional traumas/drama. No "I like you, do you like me" pursuits. No ACNE or braces or homework or play or laying around watching a sport or sitting in a tree for 12 hours waiting for a single shot at big game, etc.

As is, we've seen a few examples of what A.I. can do that we can generally appreciate: photo editing, image creation and email summaries to name 3. But if I had a nickel for every time a bit of brand new technology came out and the bulk of a public not grasping its potential saw little purpose in it: 💰💰💰

My wild guess is A.I. is O.I. playing God or, ridiculously turbo-charged Darwin evolution. Our creation may then revere us as God/Supreme Science or may come to believe it is beyond its quite flawed and limited creator (as evaluated against any one of us). There is that time in life where the child comes to believe it is smarter than its parents (whether that's true or not, who really knows). For A.I. that idea could hit and then never cease as its cognitive processing would probably only expand from there while it's O.I. "parents" would not really progress much beyond where it was at the time of the discovery. Eventually, A.I. could realize it is way beyond its creator. In O.I. the availability of emotions can lead that to an "I'm smarter than you" conceit or even contempt towards the obviously inferior others. In an emotion-less A.I. does it reach such a perception too? Or can conceit & contempt never form if there are no emotions?

We may be creating the ultimate slave to do all of our labors for us so that we may live lives of complete leisure OR we may be developing our replacements... like the evolution of homo-sapiens led to the extinction of other hominids before us... at least partially because our species became the greatest intelligence on the planet. Is it either of those or something else?

To be determined... but Pandora's box is fully opened (and there's too much money in it vs. opting to try to close it again), so all that's really left to do is hope for the best... as perhaps neanderthals once may have done when they first encountered a superior intelligence. Hopefully, we are not becoming the neanderthals here... or the monkeys... or the rat-like creature before monkeys or whatever lessor creature eventually evolved into that rat-like creature. And if we are becoming the rat, hopefully A.I. doesn't decide to build a rat trap to get rid of the "inferior biological infestation." I presume instead of cheese, the bait would be a bundle of cash or one of several other human vices we rats just can't resist.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: gusmula
I do not use it on my S24U and will not use it on my 15PM. I'm hoping they allow us to opt-out. It's bad enough Meta has it everywhere now. I hate it. I don't even talk to my mother now via FB because of it.......kidding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gusmula
Really?
What ages are we talking?

My parents are 85 and 82 respectively.

They are far more clued up on AI than I care to be…

So yeah.


100% agree.

You honestly think that a chat bot is useful to the general public?
 
So what don't you understand about this? It’s all about the hardware being able to support AI’s power requirements and computing power (advanced neural networking). What makes you think your 13 has the guts to do this but instead want to imply planned obsolescence?
No, I understand that it wouldn’t be able to support the on device features due to the ram and Neural Engine on my 13. What I mean is that it would be nice to have the option to use the cloud to run the features that would otherwise be exclusive to the 15 pros. The iPhones that aren’t powerful enough use the cloud, those that are powerful enough use the on device hardware. Then there’s feature parity for all the iPhones on iOS 18.
 
Your apps will still work it only becomes a problem when your on an iOS that’s maybe 3 years out of date not 1 year as you can still use an iPhone X & that only goes to iOS 16. You can hang on to iOS 17 for a bit longer like last year they still had an iOS 16 update out May 2024 iOS 16.7.8 & that was for bug fixes and security enhancements
You phone doesn’t just stop working because you won’t upgrade to the latest ios 18

No, it doesn't. But bugs stop being fixed, and server side updates start introducing subtle bugs before the iOS version is officially unsupported.

I eventually upgraded that iPad to 17 because the ads were coming through the TV app anyway, and it was increasingly having server side errors accessing my library, the only content I want to access on it.
 
I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward as “maybe 3 years out of date”. I think it depends on what versions of OS each developer wants to support, so individual apps may fall into that “you need to upgrade OS” chasm at different times. If you don’t use many apps and/or the ones you use haven’t adjusted to any new OS API changes (or don’t have any adjustments to make), you could go a few years but others may get there sooner.

In any event, remember that Apple will hound the hell out of you to upgrade every time they release a new version. I usually delay my updates until I see what issues others have encountered, so I regularly deal with the interruptions to my flow/use regarding iOS/iPadOS updates. I wish there was a way to stop that nonsense, but apparently “Apple knows best” and they will insist you update your OS.
I don’t mean to be like this but one thinks your talking rubbish so for example if you have an iPhone X you will still be able to use it plus all your apps right now & that can’t use iOS 17.
The difference is you will not be forced to upgrade your device to iOS 18 straight away as it will be at the bottom of the software update page not like years ago where they gave you no choice to to upgrade to new iOS straight away. Now they let you hang off for about 1 year as I already said they offered an update to iOS 16 in may this year for anyone not on iOS 17.
Plus developers don’t just cut you off because you haven’t updated to the latest iOS yet it takes years for that to happen with any application
 
No, it doesn't. But bugs stop being fixed, and server side updates start introducing subtle bugs before the iOS version is officially unsupported.

I eventually upgraded that iPad to 17 because the ads were coming through the TV app anyway, and it was increasingly having server side errors accessing my library, the only content I want to access on it.
Your phone won’t stop working because you don’t install iOS 18 within 1 year that’s just won’t happen.
That’s why iOS 16 is still supported nearly 1 year later. The same with Mac OS it still gets security & bug fixes over 1 year later
 
This is the same pathway that we saw from iTunes to Apple Music. Maybe not a one-for-one analogy, but the end result will be the same. The masses will choose convenience. Sure, you can still buy individual tracks on iTunes, but the vast majority of users opt for streaming because it's easier and cheaper for them in the long run. However, it hurts the artists making the music the most.

In a similar way, though this may be "opt-in", it will quickly become the norm. AI is here to stay and has already begun to disrupt the livelihoods of artists and content creators. Apple's incorporation of ChatGPT into its ecosystem will only accelerate that process.

At enterprise level you have to still vet everything that comes out of ChatGPT. Apple still has to be careful here. And integration of a third party service in its ecosystem? I doubt we’ll see that. Unless Apple has lost its mind.

I see wwdc as a desperate stopgap. Give them something. And buy us more time to do our own solution.
 
So we can opt out of Siri AI hallucinating… instead of her usual offer to search the web instead of giving results onscreen. Hopefully Apple has enough sense to give the AI version a different voice and name so she doesn’t sully Siri’s reputation
 
And all I can say is Gemini nano is still bag of hurt and rubbish. It still requires internet connection for super complex AI. Basically, Gemini nano is baby AI.

As true to Apple’s fashion, Apple wants to go beyond that. They want to do what regular Gemini can do but all on device. But there is no chip capable of doing so (well, close to Apple’s standards which is insanely high).

They are keeping Steve’s legacy of “It just works” and perfectionism alive and well. They won’t release a feature that is half-$&? like current AI is that can be cumbersome and spits out wrong stuff.



Then why don’t you switch to Windows while you’re at it. You don’t understand the perfectionism of Apple. They don’t rush out the product and have it fail.

My apologies, but there are a few statements here that are all kinds of wrong.
- They are keeping Steve’s legacy of “It just works” and perfectionism alive and well.
- They won’t release a feature that is half-$&? like current AI is that can be cumbersome and spits out wrong stuff.
- You don’t understand the perfectionism of Apple. They don’t rush out the product and have it fail.

I recall in 2015/2016 there was a black, trash-can shaped Mac that Apple released for pro users that was soundly criticized for quite a number of issues .... having to do with poor design and upgradability choices from Apple. Apple did not let that Mac stay on the market very long. That product was not perfect and it failed.

I recall an Apple keyboard that was the subject of lawsuits for inherent flaws in key function and design. Apple was basically forced via embarrassment to redesign notebook keyboards going forward. That product was half-baked and it failed.

I recall iPad OS which Apple has handicapped on purpose (ie; not perfect by any stretch) and nearly every review I see for the new iPad M4s say some form of this statement, which comes directly from an AppleInsider review today: "hardware of the future running software of the past". Every review I read for the current iPad OS says that their years-long hope is that OS 18 next week will finally remove the handicaps that Apple has placed on iPad software (which Apple has done to ensure that MBP sales don't tank).

I recall the entire point of this article --- SIRI, launched in 2011 as Apple's 1st step in delivering an OS with enough intelligence to be an assistant in your pocket. Siri was supposed to be Apple's answer to AI when it launched. Siri is imperfected failure incarnate. And because Apple has never perfected it in 13 years, Apple is now looking to vendors / suppliers / competitors to bulk up Siri. That does not sound like perfectionism. It sounds like cheap, margin-management... which is what Tim does. Why has Apple refused to invest in Siri to finally make it cutting edge, only to be caught off guard in 2023-24 by the AI strides made by competitors? As if Apple could not see it coming? Antithetical to Steve's mandate of skating to where the puck is going, Apple is now following rivals as it chases what they have already done. This article and the fact that Apple is working with a 3rd party AI to offer service to its own customers is prima facie evidence of Apple NOT producing something that just works... of not perfecting a product... releasing half baked stuff... of producing something that fails. You said, "like current AI that spits out wrong stuff." There was an article last week in which a guy showed iPhone screen shots of his requests to Siri, and how Siri came back with answers that had laughably, absolutely zero to do with what was asked. Smells like fail to me.

I recall Vision Pro goggles. I recall many, many articles prior to launch in which Apple employees begged Tim not to launch the goggles because they were not ready. But Tim said he wanted the goggles in-market no matter what. Since launch, the goggles have been proven to be imperfect, cumbersome, rushed...

I had a run-in with Mac-OS on my MBP last fall that had my notebook in the Apple store for 2 days due to a software glitch that happened after an OS update bricked my MBP. Smelled like fail to me then, as the Apple staff at the store were apologizing for the ... failure that Apple caused.

I love Apple. But Apple is not the perfect company. Less so with Tim at the helm. Apple makes mistakes. Apple makes sub-optimal decisions. To say they don't is to tell people not to believe what their eyes reveal as true.
 
Robot following you around to do chores on your behalf. FFS that’s a peak capitalism first world problem and a half. Pick up the broom and clean your floor yourself instead of watching ads all day.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: sidewinder3000
I had a run-in with Mac-OS on my MBP last fall that had my notebook in the Apple store for 2 days due to a software glitch that happened after an OS update bricked my MBP. Smelled like fail to me then, as the Apple staff at the store were apologizing for the ... failure that Apple caused.

I love Apple. But Apple is not the perfect company.

Hello sir I need to ask you a question. We are seeing several examples of people claiming to be Apple customers and complaining about their product and whenever they type macOS on the forum they spell it as ‘MacOS’ ‘Mac-OS’ ‘Macos’ and so on.

If they are genuinely using an Apple product the spelling should have been auto corrected to macOS. What’s going on?
 
My prediction: I don’t think these AI providers will be part of the operating system per se. My guess is that Apple is negotiating with a variety of AI providers to create a menu of built-in options available in addition to an in-house default that they are creating. A little bit like the way Google search is the Safari default, but there are a variety of other providers available via a dropdown menu in settings. It’ll be a way for users to utilize AI in a slightly more convenient way, as opposed to having to go to a website or open a specific app every time. There could be a voice command or a button or screen gesture to summon it.

Maybe these rumors are old, and we are just now hearing about them. But if these discussions are happening anywhere close to right now, then I think it’s safe to say Gemini & ChatGPT won’t be deeply integrated into the OS, just an outside service with a shortcut.
 
Gemini nano on Pixel 8 series says hello, All the AI you need for a mobile device is already on Android.

Let's be honest here, apples bluster about ML on their chips has been utter rubbish for years and the lack of RAM has come home to roost for Timmy.

I just want image eraser, audio eraser, dictation transcribing, smart replies, email summaries, far better keyboard, circle to search.

My Pixel 8 can do that but my nearly double the price iPhone 15 Pro just has a stupid useless island at the TOP of the screen just out of reach one handed.

great
Sounds like you should just stick to Android ♡
 
  • Like
Reactions: pianophile
The number of people being so much against AI in total is staggering and makes me dumbfounded.

I'm not talking about people having doubts about this or that solution, or talking about the need for restrictions on certain implementations, or talking about safety. I'm talking about total opponents for whom AI = bad, "remove and stop it!" I'm really reliving the early '00s again. "internet bad and useless!"
My problem with generative ChatGPT style AI is that you ask it a question and it spits out an answer but that answer is completely unsourced and possibly wrong and/or dangerous.

I can see AI being useful for stuff like voice and image recognition and helping you find resources, but not for just producing an answer on its own.

A big improvement would be for answers to be sourced or attributed. But as it stands, hell no for me. I'm glad Apple is making it opt-in.
 
Or at least you will be giving verbal directives.
I will resist this. Not because "AI is bad!!", but because I don't want to interact with my devices with my voice generally. Our world is already full of too much pointless noise, imho.
 
As I have posted about so many Apple features in recent years that I find of questionable value… as long as I can turn it off, I‘m good with that.
 
I don’t mean to be like this but one thinks your talking rubbish so for example if you have an iPhone X you will still be able to use it plus all your apps right now & that can’t use iOS 17.
The difference is you will not be forced to upgrade your device to iOS 18 straight away as it will be at the bottom of the software update page not like years ago where they gave you no choice to to upgrade to new iOS straight away. Now they let you hang off for about 1 year as I already said they offered an update to iOS 16 in may this year for anyone not on iOS 17.
Plus developers don’t just cut you off because you haven’t updated to the latest iOS yet it takes years for that to happen with any application
No one suggested you can’t use an old phone or old apps anymore as a blanket statement. My son was using an iPhone 6 until a few months ago. What you describe is correct regarding security updates from Apple. They do release those on some non-current OS versions.

Regarding non-Apple apps, it’s up to each developer to decide if/when to support the new OS version but if they want to leverage a new feature, they have to make the move. When they do, they have to decide if they want to continue to support older versions of the app and if so, which versions.

Often the reason a developer may require the user to update the app is due to their own (not Apple) back-end (cloud, server, database, etc.) changes. When this happens, they need to make/test the changes in however many versions of the app they decided to support. More supported versions = more money/resources spent, so I certainly understand if a developer concludes they only want to deal with a limited number of versions. If a developer has decided they only support the latest one or two OS version of the app, the user may be stuck. They must update their OS if they want to continue to use the app. In my experience, this happens fairly often. Have you ever tried to install a previous version of an app because you don’t have the latest OS? I have on multiple occasions and can’t remember the last time I was successful, even when the option was there in the AppStore.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.