Bloomberg: iPad Mini Coming in October [Updated]

[AustinIllini]

I think your logic is very confused here. We're talking about a theoretical new 7" product here. Your numbers should be comparing that 7" product against the current 10" and 3" products to find out which one it's closer to. So...
10-7=3
7-3=4
Therefore, it would be closer to being a small iPad than a large iPod Touch.
Your numbers compared the current iPad to the iPod Touch, which is really irrelevant. Actually, this entire line of thinking is irrelevant, because size alone isn't the determining factor. The usability of the product is. If it's 7" but functions and has the capabilities of the iPad, then it's an iPad mini.

You're measuring by length. You should be measuring by area. Maintaining a relatively constant aspect ratio.

iPad 10 in x 7 in = 70 sq in
Mini iPad 7 in x 5 in = 35 sq in
4" i phone 4 in x 3 in = 12 sq in

Areas get larger by a larger ratio as they grow. The iPad mini would be closer to a larger iPod Touch.

 

[mantan]

Apple very willingly killed off iPod Mini and replaced it with Nano when Mini was the best selling iPod. They also had no problem releasing the new iPod Touch to disrupt iPod Nano when Nano was probably the best selling MP3 player in the world.

A 7.85" tablet in the $200-300 range will be a perfect device to pick up the slacks in the declining sales of iPod. It might canibalize the existing iPad sales to an extent, but the amount of new customers gained will be enormous. Plus I expect a lot of current iPad users will buy both iPads. In a way, this is Apple's response to large display phones as well, especially if it comes with a 3G/LTE option.

I agree. People are looking at the wrong end of the spectrum.

The product that increasingly seems out of place is the iPod Touch. Before the iPad and cheap iPhone (free with contract 3GS and $99 8 gig 4), it was often used as a way to break kids/teens into the Apple ecosystem. But now it seems a bit of an odd duck. It's only advantage is storage. But without the functionality of a phone or bigger screen size - it suddenly seems underwhelming.

A 7 inch iPad isn't going to cannibalize iPad sales as much as boost sales at the sub $400 end of the spectrum.

Two different devices, two different needs. A lot of families who share an iPad would be a lot more willing to buy a $249-$349 device for a second/third unit then wait a year or two for hand me downs.

Remember, the people on this board are hard core Apple enthusiasts who happily drop $700-$1000 for the latest version. Most users would welcome a more cost effective alternative.

 

[Dbrown]

Why would Apple voluntarily undercut their 9.5" iPad by selling a 7" iPad?? That makes absolutely no sense to me and I don't see any overwhelming demand for a smaller tablet.

The only way I can see this happening is as a remote control for the new Apple TV

I'm willing to bet you real money that if a 7" ipad does come out, it will outsell the bigger version by a comfortable margin.

 

[sweetbrat]

You're measuring by length. You should be measuring by area. Maintaining a relatively constant aspect ratio.

iPad 10 in x 7 in = 70 sq in
Mini iPad 7 in x 5 in = 35 sq in
4" i phone 4 in x 3 in = 12 sq in

Areas get larger by a larger ratio as they grow. The iPad mini would be closer to a larger iPod Touch.

I understand area. That wasn't what the post I replied to was talking about, though. There was no mention of area.

 

[apolloa]

Simple concept: You sell a product that people want to buy, and you capture the majority of the sales for that product. Given the choice of a 7" Android device, or a 7" iOS device, at roughly the same ballpark price, I'm confident people will select the iOS device. Hence, Apple will "dominate" the 7" tablet market....

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

THAT is ALL I have to say to someone who is utterly deluded enough to believe Apple would sell a 7" iPad for the same price as the Kindle Fire and the Nexus 7!

In the UK the 7" iPad would replace the iPad 2 and I would bet it costs the same too which is twice the price of a Nexus 7! Ballpark price my ass...

 

[Ryth]

The one thing I don't buy is the screen not being retina.

Considering this 7" iTouch would be used as a reader outside, on the bus, Metro, etc...why would Apple put out a device that didn't have Retina??? It makes NO SENSE.

Razor-sharp text. Richer colors. The Retina display transforms the entire iPad experience. So everything looks and feels incredibly lifelike and perfectly detailed.


And for the MacBookPro Retina, it also reduces glare.

So two key selling points of retina, crisper text and images and reduced glare, would not be on the new 7" iTouch...a device that Apple knows would be used by the type of user that uses a Kindle Fire, Nook, etc...

NOT
BUYING
IT

 

[apolloa]

Let me iterate my pricing argument for those of you who just don't get it.
In the UK.

iPod STARTS at £10 MORE then the 8GB Nexus 7":

iPod starts from £169:
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_touch/select

Nexus 7" starts from £159:
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb

iPad 2 starts from £329:
http://store.apple.com/uk/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/ipad2

iPad 3 starts from £399:
http://store.apple.com/uk/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/new_ipad


So if you are deluded enough to think Apple would be able to price it well enough to compete with the Nexus 7" or the Kindle Fire 2 if it comes to the UK, then well I can't help you.. because you will have SERIOUSLY overdosed on the koolaide!!

I can see it costing from £300 and replacing the iPad 2, or at the very least start from £250, and even then if it has a lower screen resolution then a Nexus 7 that is a hard sell to new buyers I think.

 

[MacAgnostic]

You're measuring by length. You should be measuring by area. Maintaining a relatively constant aspect ratio.

iPad 10 in x 7 in = 70 sq in
Mini iPad 7 in x 5 in = 35 sq in
4" i phone 4 in x 3 in = 12 sq in

Areas get larger by a larger ratio as they grow. The iPad mini would be closer to a larger iPod Touch.

You also measured incorrectly (and/or fabricated imaginary dimensions); the screen sizes (4", 7.85" and 9.7") are diagonal measurements.

iPad 9.7" 7.7 x 5.8 = 45 sq in
iPad mini 7.85" 6.3 x 4.7 = 30 sq in
iPod Touch 4" 3.5 x 2.0 = 7 sq in
iPod Touch 3.5" 3.0 x 2.0 = 6 sq in

The iPad mini is 53% smaller (15 sq in) than the iPad and 333% larger (23 sq in) than the 4" iPod Touch.
The iPad mini would be closer to a smaller iPad.

 

[crs.one]

----------

Again, like the other poster, you miss the point of the argument. For many, many people, the view of a 10" tablet of any make or model, is just too close to watch comfortably in your lap. A 3" to 4" screen is too small. But a 7" screen should be just right.

No need to "do the math"...

And if Apple decides to make the 7" tablet, they will make it the best 7" tablet in the market, because that's just what they do. They will work out any issues with the target elements, and they won't let it result in a negative user experience...

The key will be price....price it too high, and people will just buy a Nexus 7.....

I didn't use the contentious phrase "do the math." but he was comparing it to being up close to a 55" tv, and the comparison was a gross exaggeration.

I don't believe there are a significant number of people who are truly uncomfortable with a 10" tablet at arms (or laps) length. But I concede that there will always be someone.

Surely it will be the best 7" tablet. But just being a "good 7in tablet" doesn't mean it will be a good product. It's like making the best moped.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to make it well. I'm saying there are significant doubts that people who say "choice is good! Choice is good!" are ignoring.

----------

You're simply wrong on this point, and you could realize that if you thought about it, or read through this site a bit -- it's been worked out. That is of course, you consider the iPhone to represent a frustrating user experience that is damaging Apple's reputation and profits...

No, because the iPhone is scaled differently.

----------

You're measuring by length. You should be measuring by area...

Areas get larger by a larger ratio as they grow.

Too...easy...

 

[tubular]

okay by me

I've been an Apple user since somewhere around 1987, and I really couldn't come up with a use case for the current iPad that would cover the cost in the past few years. But bring that puppy in at $250 for 32GB and wifi-only and 1024*768 and you've finally got me.

I see this as being more like what Apple was doing five or six years ago to nail down the low end of the MP3 market with their tiny-profit-margin iPod minis etc. They don't need to make much bucks there; it's more important to show that the tent extends all the way down the road, high end to low end.

 

[cdmoore74]

Apple pushes out 7" iPad. Competition gives up and goes home.

Only if Apple can be competitive with the cost. A $200 iPad 7 incher would kill the Nexus 7 even without gps and a faster processor. Problem is Apple would shot themselves in the foot in doing so. If Apple made let's say $10 billion in profits from selling 20 million 9.7 inch units but only made $3 billion by selling 60 million iPad 7 inchers Apple is down $7 billion in hardware profits from the year before. The only hope is for Apple to sale more Apps but that is not a guarantee especially when iPad's can still be jailbroken. Apple's past formula is to make money upfront. Google and Amazon's formula is to make money after the sale.
I love a good price war and I hope Apple releases a cheap premium 7 incher on the same playing field with the Nexus 7. But will Apple forfeit their upfront profits and diminish the need for a 9.7 inch tablet? This new model most cost $200 to $300 to steal Nexus 7 sales. But it must cost a lot more to make up in loss iPad profits.

 

[knucklehead]

No, because the iPhone is scaled differently.

Please make this statement make some sense...

 

[Kevin777]

There's not much of a 7" "market." it's all just lumped in with the "not an iPad market"

And you throw around terms like ignorant and arrogant, but you don't address the crux of the matter...will the smaller size make target elements too small and damage the user experience.

In a side note, your aspect comparisons are off. 10" iPad at arms length is more akin to a 55" tv at ten feet. Maybe there is someone here who can do the actual math

----------



It's not true that "it can only be good for the company."

If it provides an inferior experience, it will damage the reputation of the iPad itself. And stockholders will see drops

I didn't use the contentious phrase "do the math." but he was comparing it to being up close to a 55" tv, and the comparison was a gross exaggeration.

I don't believe there are a significant number of people who are truly uncomfortable with a 10" tablet at arms (or laps) length. But I concede that there will always be someone.

Surely it will be the best 7" tablet. But just being a "good 7in tablet" doesn't mean it will be a good product. It's like making the best moped.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to make it well. I'm saying there are significant doubts that people who say "choice is good! Choice is good!" are ignoring.

----------



No, because the iPhone is scaled differently.

=======================================

I apologize. Your exact words (look at your actual post if you don't believe me) were "Maybe there is someone here who can do the actual math"..

I stand corrected....What a shocking difference from "do the math".

In all honesty, I think the rumors I've heard that, really, this device should be considered as the new iPod Touch, a la iPod Touch XL, are closer to the truth than it being an iPad "Mini".

But price is everything. I'm not a Macolyte. I'm not an Apple fanboy. I'll pay $299 to $350 for a 7" iOS device. More than that, and if the Nexus 7 does everything I need it to do, and does it well for way less money, then resistance will be futile, and the Google Borg shall win out....

 

[champ01]

I can post this over and over again.

Seems to never get old.

 

[Kevin777]

I can post this over and over again.

Seems to never get old.

Image

Yeah, yeah, yeah...and come November 1st we'll all hear about how you camped out 7 days straight to be the first person within 100 miles to buy the new 7" iPad mini, and how, without any single shred of doubt, it is the most magnificent device ever created in the history of the world, and that it has completely and totally transformed your life, forever (...or at least until the next Apple product comes out...)

 

[champ01]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...and come November 1st we'll all hear about how you camped out 7 days straight to be the first person within 100 miles to buy the new 7" iPad mini, and how, without any single shred of doubt, it is the most magnificent device ever created in the history of the world, and that it has completely and totally transformed your life, forever (...or at least until the next Apple product comes out...)

I don't care for a 7 inch iPad or a 4 inch iPhone. I like the products at the size they are.

I don't go for hypes, I choose good products.

 

[mantan]

I can post this over and over again.

Seems to never get old.

Image

This would make a lot more sense if the iPad mini was designed to be a phone. To me it seems more like a shot at the big screen phones that are creeping up.

The winning element to the a 7-inch iPad will be price. The phone market is fine. But there are a lot of people who would like a alternative to the iPad with a larger screen than a iPod touch. That would be attractive not as a bad tablet....but as a cost effective option. Especially for people looking for second/third device for the household.

 

[Kevin777]

I don't care for a 7 inch iPad or a 4 inch iPhone. I like the products at the size they are.

I don't go for hypes, I choose good products.

And I believe you and take you at your word. That's why you'll be buying the 7" iPad Mini!

 

[sweetbrat]

I don't care for a 7 inch iPad or a 4 inch iPhone. I like the products at the size they are.

I don't go for hypes, I choose good products.

You like them the size they are. Others want something different. I don't go for hype, either. I want things that would work well for me. Just because something is different, it doesn't mean it's a bad product. It hasn't even been released yet and you already know it would be sub-par. You must be clairvoyant.

 

[mrnoglue]

Yes

So basically you are saying heavy women is bad and that every girl should be anorexic?

Hit the nail right on the head

 

[crs.one]

=======================================

I apologize. Your exact words (look at your actual post if you don't believe me) were "Maybe there is someone here who can do the actual math"..

I stand corrected....What a shocking difference from "do the math".

In all honesty, I think the rumors I've heard that, really, this device should be considered as the new iPod Touch, a la iPod Touch XL, are closer to the truth than it being an iPad "Mini".

But price is everything. I'm not a Macolyte. I'm not an Apple fanboy. I'll pay $299 to $350 for a 7" iOS device. More than that, and if the Nexus 7 does everything I need it to do, and does it well for way less money, then resistance will be futile, and the Google Borg shall win out....

I know what I said. Shocking or not, there is a significant difference between what I said and the condescending command "do the math."

And i agree; I would be more confident in a bigger iPod touch that simply scales up iPod apps.

And while I admit, for some customers, price is everything. But apple doesn't operate on that premise; they say quality is everything. So if the quality isn't there, I hope they don't release it

----------

Please make this statement make some sense...

An illustration would be how iPhone apps are different than iPad apps

 

[vmachiel]

Makes so much sense that apple would do this. Basically, after 400 million form factors, the most popular ones have been around 7 and around 10 inches. Apple kills it at the 10 inch mark, and the nexus 7 destroys the competition at the 7 inch mark.

Apple wants a piece of that

 

[poloponies]

If Apple can sell a $399 iPad 2, knock at least $150 off for going with a smaller screen, smaller battery, etc.

Apple could sell these at a lower cost, just to spur app store sales.

That's a fine plan for some companies, just not Apple. They're not making much profit from the App store. In fact, all sales through iTunes last year (apps, books, movies and music) generated $6 billion in revenue. Apple doesn't disclose profits on that segment but it's likely less than 10% By contrast they generated $6 billion in revenue from iPad sales alone last quarter at a roughly 1/3 profit rate.

Amazon's happy selling content, Apple is not.

You also can't randomly say "it should be $150 less" when the primary savings is in the display and battery That's about $60-$65 less (the iPad 3 display+touchscreen is $127, iPad 2 is $97, iPhone is $37 - the battery is $32 for the iPad 3, $22 for the iPad 2). There is no "$150 less" savings to be had.

Even assuming, for argument's sake, that they could produce something for $299, then that's $70 less in profit per device. Everyone here thinks "this will expand Apple's market" and while that's certainly true, it will also lead to people buying the 7" over the 10" because it's close enough. They would then have to sell 1.7 smaller devices for every larger device sale lost. Eventually the numbers can't sustain themselves.

 

[Kevin777]

Only if Apple can be competitive with the cost. A $200 iPad 7 incher would kill the Nexus 7 even without gps and a faster processor. Problem is Apple would shot themselves in the foot in doing so. If Apple made let's say $10 billion in profits from selling 20 million 9.7 inch units but only made $3 billion by selling 60 million iPad 7 inchers Apple is down $7 billion in hardware profits from the year before. The only hope is for Apple to sale more Apps but that is not a guarantee especially when iPad's can still be jailbroken. Apple's past formula is to make money upfront. Google and Amazon's formula is to make money after the sale.
I love a good price war and I hope Apple releases a cheap premium 7 incher on the same playing field with the Nexus 7. But will Apple forfeit their upfront profits and diminish the need for a 9.7 inch tablet? This new model most cost $200 to $300 to steal Nexus 7 sales. But it must cost a lot more to make up in loss iPad profits.

You presume that 7" iPad Mini sales would come at the expense of 10" iPad sales. It's doubtful that will be the case. Most people who have parted with $500+ for an iPad have already done so. The "New" iPad (i.e. iPad 3) wasn't a big enough shaker to everyone dump their iPad 2's, but even still, people that want a 10" iPad will continue to buy the latest 10" version as it gets even better.

Try this with your numbers: Apple makes $10M still selling 20M 10" iPad's AND it makes another $3M selling 60M 7" iPads, AND Apple now has 60M additional people (well, probably some already had a 10" iPad) in the Apple ecosystem that it didn't have before, spending cash like there's no tomorrow.

Can't race at Indy if you don't have an Indy race car; Can't compete for the 7" tablet market if you don't make a 7" tablet device...

Apple has to choose: either it wants to capture the 7" market, or it wants Google & Amazon to enjoy every dollar of 7" tablet profit to be made.

I'm betting that Apple wants to be in that race, because ultimately, it means more money in the coffers, and not less...And in this race, any money NOT going into your coffers is going to your business enemies, and funding their overall efforts against you. Fight or die.

Can't believe Apple wants to die....too many funerals coming up in the near future (Blackberry, M$ Surface, etc.)...

 

[crs.one]

You presume that 7" iPad Mini sales would come at the expense of 10" iPad sales. It's doubtful that will be the case. Most people who have parted with $500+ for an iPad have already done so. The "New" iPad (i.e. iPad 3) wasn't a big enough shaker to everyone dump their iPad 2's, but even still, people that want a 10" iPad will continue to buy the latest 10" version as it gets even better.

Try this with your numbers: Apple makes $10M still selling 20M 10" iPad's AND it makes another $3M selling 60M 7" iPads, AND Apple now has 60M additional people (well, probably some already had a 10" iPad) in the Apple ecosystem that it didn't have before, spending cash like there's no tomorrow.

Can't race at Indy if you don't have an Indy race car; Can't compete for the 7" tablet market if you don't make a 7" tablet device...

Apple has to choose: either it wants to capture the 7" market, or it wants Google & Amazon to enjoy every dollar of 7" tablet profit to be made.

I'm betting that Apple wants to be in that race, because ultimately, it means more money in the coffers, and not less...And in this race, any money NOT going into your coffers is going to your business enemies, and funding their overall efforts against you. Fight or die.

Can't believe Apple wants to die....too many funerals coming up in the near future (Blackberry, M$ Surface, etc.)...

Just because companies make 7" tablets doesn't mean there is a market for 7" tablets. The Fire has been the best one and its performance has been underwhelming. While its very dramatic, apple is far from dying, and not having a 7" tablet won't be the nail in the coffin