Bloomberg: iPhone 13 to Feature ProRes for Videos, ProMotion Displays, Portrait Mode Video, Smaller Notch, and More

[deconstruct60]

ProRes RAW requires capture to an external device, such as an Atomos Ninja V. I am not sure any current or upcoming DSLR is capable of capturing ProRes RAW internally at this time.

Pragmatically yes, but technically it doesn't. If look at Apple's ProRes RAW Products list you'll find DJI's

• Zenmuse X7

https://www.dji.com/zenmuse-x7

It doesn't come standard. You have to buy an extra license. For the other camera markers ( except for RED ) the more pressing issue is costs. Both the license cost , materials ( processing power and/or fixed function logic ) , and lost opportunity cost ( to stuff the data into their own RAW format ). ProRes RAW isn't really 'free' to Apple because RED's patents are entangled in it. ( can imagine that Apple isn't in a hurry to attach a $x.xx fee to each iPhone sold if it is high enough. )

The quirk for the Zenmuse camera (and attached drone ) is that pragmatically it doesn't have to do playback. Recording RAW from the sensors isn't too hard because not really doing much processing except compression. Looking at the RAW data as a pleasing image is a bigger "pain".


At some point though ProRES RAW decode fixed function logic probably will come to Apple SoC on both iPhone , iPads, and Macs. For now though, the rest of the Apple ProRes supported products page (likned above ) is vastly longer for ProRes than for ProRes RAW. Random Joe iPhone user and can't see the video after it gets off the phone... there is not really high utility in that.

Not to mention the storage requirements for capturing 10-bit Dolby Vision ProRes RAW would fill up the iPhone insanely fast. Give it another 2-3 years and who knows. I suspect this ProRes will be some existing flavor geared towards smaller file sizes or bit rates (ProRes 422) or a new flavor of ProRes to take advantage of the Dolby Vision capture from the iPhone. Excited, nonetheless.

More to the point, decent chance that the en/decode for that limited ProRes is shifting to some fixed function logic support so also lowering battery consumption on processing also. I don't think Apple is loosing much sleep at all about "blowing out" the storage requirements. That just means folks buying bigger capacity iPhone storage which has sky high margins for Apple. ( and/or more data being transparently migrated to bigger iCloud storage footprint .. which means more services money. )

The other issue is that is more likely for stuff like TikTok/Instagram/etc social media clips than for shooting a feature length movie shot.

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

13 is a bad luck number…

So is the number 4 in China. Funny how the iPhone 4 was both made and sold there.

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

Floored that people are still bitching about Touch ID

Why? It was a great feature many people still want and Apple could easily deliver (with their Power Button Touch ID that they're already using). I for one don't feel like taking my mask off every time I want to use my phone or have to hold the phone up to my face just to unlock it.

 

[deconstruct60]

... Creating a frame by frame depth map at potentially 60fps and applying it without any artifacts is going to be fascinating. ...

I have often wondered what this high computing power of Apple chips is for.

More like the custom computing power of Apple chips. This video feature is probably leaning leaning heavily on new fixed function video logic (with the Neural Processor assist ) to do the bulk of the work.

If go to a typical higher end "pro" Video or DSLR/Mirrorless camera there isn't a general purpose Super-duper FLOPS processor in there. Most of the heavily lifting is done by fixed logic that is designed to do a narrow set of tasks extremely well. Apple has a pretty large transistor budget allocated to fixed function image/video processing. Every time there is a fab shrink or die layout optimization that buys more die space that subsystem gets it 'fair share" of the larger transistor budget handed out.

Apple seriously competes against the dedicated camera systems. They put effort into the image processing hardware to do that. ( In part it is a cost of complements issues. If Apple can take your "high end camera" budget allocation ( e.g., $1000 every 4-5 years ) and apply that to your iPhone purchase budget ( $250-500 'extra' per year every 2-4 years ) then Apple makes more money over time. )

 

[aTomek]

No TouchID - no, thanks.

 

[unfunfionn]

I'm planning to upgrade from my iPhone 11 this year and so far, none of the rumours have me particularly excited.

 

[Zaft]

if AOD is only on the pro models that’s just bs.

you don’t need a 120hz/LPO display for AOD anyway, it’s been on Android for years with minimal battery hit.

 

[deconstruct60]

ProRes RAW actually requires less space to be stored than regular ProRes. Although I guess Apple is not allowed to have it as an option because RED owns the patents regarding the on-camera RAW video storage.

owning a patent doesn't mean not allowed. It is only not allowed without paying. Anything as ridiculously broad as "any compression of a RAW video file" was not meant to be entrapped by a single company's implementation.

However, the ProResRAW requires less than regular ProRes isn't generally true. If you crank ProRes to the max resolution option ( 4:4:4:4 at max quality) then RAW can sneak in some wins. But if gong to a lower encoder can certainly get to higher compression rates and lower sizes.

A major issue for the iPhones though is how much computational power consumption does Apple want to spend on that. If getting ProRes RAW takes 20% more power to decompress and look at than ProRes then Apple would likely skip it for a phone format. If they can add ProRes fixed function decode logic with less die space again it is win for phone whose SoC has substantive area limitations.

 

[mjschabow]

first of all it's not a substitute for touch id — not everyone wants an apple watch, and not every one who owns one wears it all the time. secondly — do you really think a large number of people bought the aw because of the unlocking feature in 14.5?

I agree with you, and yes I think people did. Don't know how many because I didn't personally administer surveys, but I definitely think it was a factor in some buying decisions.

 

[virginblue4]

Surprised that there's been no leak of a new color.

2019 midnight green
2020 pacific blue
2021 _______?

There has. Supposedly the colour options for the Pro line will be silver, rose gold, matte black and sunset gold (a bronze like finish).

'iPhone 13 Pro' to come in new colors, including bronze-like 'Sunset Gold' | AppleInsider

An apparent supply chain leak is corroborating rumors that Apple's higher-end "iPhone 13" models could be offered in new colors like "sunset gold," matte black, and a pale rose gold.

appleinsider.com

 

[tgwaste]

Luck is fictitious.

Luck is coincidence.

 

[DotCom2]

Curious. My 12 Pro Max gives me the best battery life I've had on a phone in well over a decade.

You are lucky. Check out the many threads on this very issue, for instance here is one:

iPhone 12 Pro battery health

I’ve had my phone since launch day and I just hit 99% on my iPhone 12 Pro. I’m interested to see where everyone else is sitting with their phones ...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[bushman4]

Gurman not as accurate as before
Some of his info never comes to fruition

 

[The Game 161]

Gurman not as accurate as before
Some of his info never comes to fruition

Very rarely

hes still just under 90% accurate

 

[Zdigital2015]

RED patents forbid internal capture for ProRes RAW, that's why it's only supported on external devices for now, its a way to circumvent this restriction.
And regular Prores requires the same space as the PR RAW plus it was always 10bit.
Yeah I suspect they won't go with the 422 flavour but more of the LT.
Dolby Vision is just metadata that tells to the screen how much will increase it's brightness to display the HDR video properly.
I am also very excited, that would be extremely useful to have good quality recordings in places you can't use a proper camera.

Thanks for the information on RED RAW. I completely forgot about the patent issues with RED. I suspect ProRes LT as well. I assume the iPhone 13 will capture 10-bit Dolby Vision as the iPhone 12 does now, so whatever flavor ProRes wraps all this up into one neat package for editing on the iPhone, iPad and Mac and PC is what Apple wants. For me, the addition of ProRes means I’m probably getting the Pro Max and not investing in a DSLR beyond what I already own. It will be much cheaper, even if I lose some of the advanced functionality of a DLSR.

 

[alexandr]

I agree with you, and yes I think people did. Don't know how many because I didn't personally administer surveys, but I definitely think it was a factor in some buying decisions.

wow, i mean ok, but wow
but i guess if you were on the verge, this would make a great final push

 

[Zdigital2015]

Pragmatically yes, but technically it doesn't. If look at Apple's ProRes RAW Products list you'll find DJI's

• Zenmuse X7

https://www.dji.com/zenmuse-x7

It doesn't come standard. You have to buy an extra license. For the other camera markers ( except for RED ) the more pressing issue is costs. Both the license cost , materials ( processing power and/or fixed function logic ) , and lost opportunity cost ( to stuff the data into their own RAW format ). ProRes RAW isn't really 'free' to Apple because RED's patents are entangled in it. ( can imagine that Apple isn't in a hurry to attach a $x.xx fee to each iPhone sold if it is high enough. )

The quirk for the Zenmuse camera (and attached drone ) is that pragmatically it doesn't have to do playback. Recording RAW from the sensors isn't too hard because not really doing much processing except compression. Looking at the RAW data as a pleasing image is a bigger "pain".


At some point though ProRES RAW decode fixed function logic probably will come to Apple SoC on both iPhone , iPads, and Macs. For now though, the rest of the Apple ProRes supported products page (likned above ) is vastly longer for ProRes than for ProRes RAW. Random Joe iPhone user and can't see the video after it gets off the phone... there is not really high utility in that.




More to the point, decent chance that the en/decode for that limited ProRes is shifting to some fixed function logic support so also lowering battery consumption on processing also. I don't think Apple is loosing much sleep at all about "blowing out" the storage requirements. That just means folks buying bigger capacity iPhone storage which has sky high margins for Apple. ( and/or more data being transparently migrated to bigger iCloud storage footprint .. which means more services money. )

The other issue is that is more likely for stuff like TikTok/Instagram/etc social media clips than for shooting a feature length movie shot.

More than Tik Tok/Instagram/Etc. We’re rapidly getting to the point where a DSLR is simply not needed for shooting the vast majority of web distributed video content. The DSLR market is already about to fall off the cliff, this brings it even closer unless you shoot higher-end content where a well kitted DSLR or a VaricamLT/Ursa/C300/FS7 is really worth it (indie features, ads, television, training, documentary work).

 

[mjschabow]

wow, i mean ok, but wow
but i guess if you were on the verge, this would make a great final push

Exactly what my logic is. I don't think there was anyone who never considered a wearable and suddenly did because of that, but yeah, it's those folks right on the verge that I think may have.

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

View attachment 1816807

People on the Mezzanine, you know what floor you're really on. You don't? Well it's probably the 2nd or 3rd, I think.

 

[iamgalt]

I hope they lean into that. Make it jet black, present it emerging from hell flames in a video. Make it the badass version.

I have no plans to upgrade from my XS yet, but if Apple did this, I might consider it.

 

[_Spinn_]

I'm excited to see the results of the camera upgrades.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Recommendations for the year when you should truly upgrade from your iPhone:

iPhone 8 - 2022
iPhone X - 2023
iPhone XS - 2024
iPhone 11 - 2027
iPhone 12 - 2028
iPhone 13 - 2030

If Apple still supports the device with iOS updates, I would wait even longer.

 

[deconstruct60]

More than Tik Tok/Instagram/Etc. We’re rapidly getting to the point where a DSLR is simply not needed for shooting the vast majority of web distributed video content. The DSLR market is already about to fall off the cliff, this brings it even closer unless you shoot higher-end content where a well kitted DSLR or a VaricamLT/Ursa/C300/FS7 is really worth it (indie features, ads, television, training, documentary work).

"Glass" (lenses) makes a difference.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/2...reen-lens-flare-photos-processing-computation


I think you are sweeping in Mirrorless with "DSLR". Old-school DSLR has been in very substantive decline for a long time now. Mirrorless is an opportunity to turn out more affordable and better glass which should somewhat stem the tide. But yeah the notion that there is some gigantic gap between on board image processing and a "phone camera" is gone. The cameras can't get around laws of physics though. ( Google's next one has a pronounced bump across the whole back end. ). The trend of thining out the phones is incrementally working against their cameras.

 

[sdreamer07]

And iPhone 14 allows you to deepfake as your favorite celebrity.

 

[Roscorito]

Is there currently any format/support that would allow this information to be saved? Like you could adjust the bokeh in editing later? Or generate your own 3D movies?

There’s apps that give you access to the photo depth map, yes. I assume these will be available for video files too.