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(there should at least be an option for Blu-ray drive in the different MBP models...)
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Blu-ray Support in Mac OS X 10.5.6?
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+ 1
(there should at least be an option for Blu-ray drive in the different MBP models...)
I prefer BRD, because people tend to understand it better, but I'm well aware that "offically" you don't add the 'R' since 'ray' is part of the word 'Blu-ray'.Before I get to your argument, thanks for at least spelling Blu-ray correctly. Though, it's BD (for Blu-ray Disc) not BR when abbreviated.
First of all, what you are looking at are large tray-loading notebook drives. Apple has been using slot-loading drives for many years now and I see no reason why they would stop now just to add an expensive optical feature that very few people care about.
Secondly, Only the 24" iMac and 17" MBP use a 12.7mm drive. These drives range in price from over $500 to $999. The use of slot-loading drives and this svelte size makes them considerably more expensive and slower than other optical drives. That is the technology, there is nothing we can do about that.
Lastly, there are no 9.5mm drives, slot- or tray-loading, that would fit in the MacBook or 15" MacBook Pro, so that point is nil. Panasonic announced they will be making one but nothing has come to market yet.
Unless it's an external option there is just no possible way that we're going to see BRDs in an Mac notebook as long as Apple is obsessed with slick-looking, slot-loading drives and ultra-thin case designs.
Agreed. So we can at least put that debate to rest until WWDC at the earliest (since this statement precludes a launch at MacWorld, IMO).
Would have been nice if someone had asked about the Mini so we could put that one to bed, as well.
Agreed. So we can at least put that debate to rest until WWDC at the earliest (since this statement precludes a launch at MacWorld, IMO).
Would have been nice if someone had asked about the Mini so we could put that one to bed, as well.
dang im really peeved that there was NOTHING on the mini... all i wanted was a new mini so that it could play my movies for me when i plug it into the TV! dangit
No need to be snippy... I was just trying to point out the correct terminology. If people call DVDs "Video CDs" (as they did when they were new, despite that actually being its own completely unrelated format) you'd know what they meant... but still DVD is correct, just as BD is correct. Getting people to call things by their actual names or acronyms isn't meant to be rude... and Blu-ray aside, people around here would slander you to no end for calling Apple products by some incorrect name or acronym (eg. Mac-bookpro). If you want to sound intelligent on a subject, you should really know how to spell it... simple as that.
So... for anyone who actually cares, it's Blu-ray or Blu-ray Disc and BD for short.
I will most definitely be watching Blu-ray movies using MY definition of "on the go," which is on airplanes (using the airlines power) and in hotel rooms (using the hotel's power). I don't care in the least about battery life, as in neither case will it be a factor. Portability, on the other hand, is a very large factor -- and ripping a couple dozen Blu-ray movies to the internal hard drive is impossible (at 20-50GB each). And why on earth would I want to waste even more time compressing those video files prior to a trip? On the other hand, picking out a couple dozen discs and throwing them in a mini case that I can throw in my laptop bag is incredibly easy and convenient.
Again... the issue isn't about the incredible quality of Blu-ray actual being perceptible on a 15.4" WXGA+ screen, but one of convenience. I ONLY buy movies on Blu-ray disc and have for going on two years now. When every major PC manufacturer (except Toshiba, who lost their own battle against Blu-ray) offers Blu-ray drives in their notebooks, there's no excuse for Apple not to. The fact that everyone else has for some time now should give you an idea that their most definitely are customers buying notebooks based on this feature.
Apple not including Blu-ray as a BTO option in their new notebooks is NOTHING but laziness (not getting programmers working on it early enough) and cheapness on Apple's part -- made even dumber by the fact that those who REALLY want Blu-ray in their new notebooks would pay the "Apple 2x actual part cost" tax to have it.
One last thing (not directed at anyone in particular), Job's excuse about "complex licensing" is complete BS. Aside from the fact that every other manufacturer can figure out the licensing terms, Apple is on the board of directors of the BDA... the organization that writes the licensing terms and determines the patent pool. Had he been honest and said "We're holding out until all the major studios are including iPod-compatible digital copies of movies on their Blu-ray releases... for which we'll charge them a licensing fee for use of our DRM" that would be fine -- an obnoxious demand, but at least honest. But making it sound like the BDA licensing is just too complicated for a company that sits on the board and is itself a member of the patent pool is ridiculous.
sorry for the snappiness i just get a tad frustrated by people trying to correct everyone. i am of the opinion that people can make up their own mind how they want to talk as long as the other people know what they are talking about. the internets use of acronyms for bluray varies, if you use the internet enough i am sure that you will know all of the various versions of defining it.
ok, so portability in the sense of battery life isnt as issue to you, fair enough that dismisses that issue.
i have to say i completely disagree with you on your compaint about ripping to the computer, space these days is not an issue really. i have a 500gb HD inside my MBP, you will soon see 1tb drives that can go into a laptop.
compressing the video's can be quite handy! if you have a nice home theatre set up you could buy a mini, rip all of your movies to external HD's (whilst still maintaining the quality) and use the mini to watch the movies digitally. these movies can be reduced to around 5gb-10gb depending on their length. all you need to do then is simply copy them onto your laptop when your ready to go away and wala!! no more discs and worrying about scratching them and keeping them organised!! (as you could probably tell i prefer digital media, its much easier to work with than media).
as i mentioned in the previous quote, having everything digital (to me) is a lot more convenient then having to worry about discs. apple has their reasons for not including BR, read down to find out.
are you aware that there are actually NO slot loading 9.5mm bluray drives on the market??
from your post i am guessing not, the 15" MBP's CANNOT have BR until the new drives is the smaller size come out, i think that is a valid reason. maybe the new revision on the 17" MBP will have it.
i have no idea what apple's reasons behind the licensing problems, but i see no reason for them to lie about it.
have a good one,
DoFoT9
True enough. But at 50GB per title (granted that's the max), even a 1TB hard drive could only hold 20 titles, and that's without leaving room for anything else. And I REALLY have better things to do with my time. Ripping 50GBs of data to my hard drive (for each title) is hardly convenient. Tossing a disc in is.
Blasphemy.
I do a lot of compression work, and if you can't tell the difference between a 40Mbps AVC encode on Blu-ray and a re-compressed 10Mbps (or whatever) AVC encode that you've created then you're either blind or don't have your setup properly calibrated. A 5-10GB re-encode is nowhere near the quality of most Blu-ray discs (there are exceptions, in cases where grain is nearly non-existant). It's "good enough" for watching "on the go" but it's still time consuming and not remotely convenient.
as i mentioned in the previous quote, having everything digital (to me) is a lot more convenient then having to worry about discs. apple has their reasons for not including BR, read down to find out.
are you aware that there are actually NO slot loading 9.5mm bluray drives on the market??
from your post i am guessing not, the 15" MBP's CANNOT have BR until the new drives is the smaller size come out, i think that is a valid reason. maybe the new revision on the 17" MBP will have it.
i have no idea what apple's reasons behind the licensing problems, but i see no reason for them to lie about it.
have a good one,
DoFoT9
You are wrong on that point, as I pointed out before. It certainly would be a valid reason if it were still true, however the situation has changed. Optiarc (Sony/NEC joint venture) developed a 9.5mm drive primarily for use by Apple and offered them to Apple (as slot-loading drives) for use in the latest machines. The fact that you can't buy one at retail has nothing to do with what was made available to Apple. (Note that Matsushita did the same thing in time for the early 2008 refresh, and Apple turned them down as well.) A version of the Optiarc drive IS being used in the new Sony TT series that was just released, and I believe will be used in the upcoming Dell 13" Studio XPS refresh coming soon. The lack of drives used to be a very real issue for Apple (prior to this year), but it no longer is.
I can't say too much about the issue, but the reason Apple didn't end up including Blu-ray with this release has NOTHING to do with drive availability. There's a lot of corporate politics going on behind the scenes, and the main issue is with Jobs wanting (read: demanding) that ALL studios start including iPhone/iPod compatible copies of their movies on Blu-ray titles... which means licensing (and paying for) Apple's DRM implementation. Most studios have done as he requested (though on a limited number of titles) but some are very reluctant to start paying Apple for rights to DRM they really don't care to use, as they're internal studies have shown customers aren't willing to pay extra for digital copies of the movies they buy. The "digital copy" idea is VERY crucial to Apple, but studios are still fairly lukewarm to the concept. So, I suppose, "complex licensing" wasn't exactly lying... it's just not at all the whole story. It's not that Blu-ray's licensing is too complicated, it's that Jobs' demands are MAKING the negotiations complicated.
Personally, I don't like the idea of paying $2k for a machine that can't do things that a $900 PC notebook can easily do. I have over 200 BDs, have no interest in iTunes movie store, and have no interest at all in wasting my time "ripping" those titles, and definitely no interest in "re-encoding" those titles. When I travel (which is very frequently) I want to be able to grab a couple dozen titles off the shelf, throw them in the case, and go. No other solution accomplishes that goal... and none are going to anytime soon. I don't claim to be the "average consumer," nor do I have any desire to be. Apple has never geared itself toward "average consumers" anyway -- they've always gone after pro-sumers, graphics artists, and video professionals. Yet they don't have Blu-ray, they don't have matte screens, and they don't even have enough ports on alleged "pro" models do get actual work done. Who exactly do they think their customers are? If they think they can continue being successful just releasing refreshes and getting fanbois (apologies to those here who fit that description) to keep buying new "toys" then, I'm sorry, but their current success doesn't look likely to continue all that much longer -- particularly in the current economy.
Anyway, just my $.02.
But that $900 PC notebook is 2" thick and uses a large tray-loading Blu-ray drive. It's not a >1" thick notebook using a 9.5mm optical drive for which their are absolutely no BDs available by any BD vendor. If you want a Mac notebook you have to be willing to accept that their slim design does add limitations in which physics can't be overlooked or ignored simply by saying "but it's a Mac!"
You guys can keep telling yourselves that, but drive availability is NOT an issue and hasn't been for awhile now. Matsushita developed drives for Apple last winter (in time for the Feb refresh) and Optiarc did it at a lower cost in time for this refresh. You guys are basing your opinion on the fact that no such drives are available at retail... which is ONLY the case because no OEM has placed orders for either drive -- Apple being the only major OEM who would require such a drive. Notebook drives aren't like desktop drives... if no major OEM orders them, they don't go into production. That doesn't mean the physics have yet to be worked out or anything else is causing a delay in production. Engineering samples of both drives exist (and Cupertino has both), and the newer Optiarc drive is being used... though in its tray-load form, in the new Sony TT series. The upcoming Dell Studio XPS 13 will likely use the drive as well, though I don't know if they'll use the slot-load or tray-load variant.
BTW, Sony's TT series offers Blu-ray, 11.1" LED display, DUAL 64GB SSDs in a RAID configuration, and far more ports than the new MBP in a package considerably smaller than the MB or MBP (and at leass than 1" thick). Even in a VERY compact package, you can offer FAR more than Apple gives you -- engineering issues are just an excuse.
I stated a fact based on that fact.
So if Apple were the ONLY ONES buying these 9.5mm drives and the 12.7mm drives are already prohibitively expensive and the number of customers even wanting BD, can you image how much they would cost? Of course Apple didn'tgo with BD so I'm amazed, with that knowledge that you still wonder how a $900 notebook can have BD.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. I said the physics can't be overlooked. A 9.5mm slot-load BD will cost more and be slower than desktop-grade tray-loading BD. In computers, smaller usually equals more expensive. I think we can agree on that.
Apple just isn't going to go to a considerably thicker notebook with a tray-loading drive just to offer a cheaper BD option that is more i-line with the cheap BD options and that won't matter to most customers. It's just poor business all around.
can you explain Blu-ray support ?
I need some clarification thank you. When you say the next major software release will offer Blu-ray support , what exactly does this mean ? And will the new MacBook Pro's be able to add this functionality with a software update. thanks in advance
I need some clarification thank you. When you say the next major software release will offer Blu-ray support , what exactly does this mean ? And will the new MacBook Pro's be able to add this functionality with a software update. thanks in advance
bluray support as in it will be able to play them in a program such as "DVD Player" (except with a different name) and native burning support with programs such as disk utility (for backups of course).
at full quality, yes. there is only a limited number of bluray disks that it can hold. mind you that that at 50gb (at most) it would include the extras and a whole bunch more stuff. just the title i imagine it would be somewhere around 25gb-35gb, which is only 32 movies. it would be worth it though (for me anyway)! 1.5tb drives are out and aren't that expensive, 2tb will be out soon so its becomming more and more convenient to rip/convert.
i also do a lot of compression work (albeit basic) and if you think your going to see a massive increase between a 10mbps rip and a 40mb passthrough/bluray movie on a 15" 1440x900 (WXGA?) screen then you are wasting your time. a 5-10gb movie is nowhere near the quality, no, but at least it will allow me to do other work while i actually watch the movie rather than chewing up my CPU/RAM, and other things (yes i watch movies while working).
im not so sure that your correct. if apple had placed these orders as you say, then wouldnt they be in the computers now?
i dont think i understand enough about the ordering systems/happenings of it all to debate it though.
no opinion...
if you feel happy going and buying a $900 asus/dell/HP laptop, good luck. but dont come crying back when it stops working after 6 months because the registry is so bogged with crap, it bluscreens every time you try to turn it on and when something breaks the so called help desk does nothing. oh not to mention that you will most certainly be running vista.. so goodluck with that
.adding a bluray reader would hardly be an upgrade for a "pro" user, it would only be an upgrade for...well...people like you. and from the sounds of it you are hardly a pro user. adding a bluray writer would be one tiny (tiny tiny) step closer to this, at such a small size (9.5mm) the technology would only allow 1x or 2x write speeds, hardly efficient for pro users. i am sure that they would ideally do work away (whatever that may be) on their laptop, save it on their large HD, and take it home to their new 16x LG bluray writer! that would be much more efficient for a pro user.
I have to say that as a Pro user myself Blu-Ray is quite essential in a laptop. It isn't all about just being able to create content on that medium, it is also about being able to view Blu-Ray material away from your chunky huge desktop. If you go to see a client, it makes it a lot easier.
Just my take on it though.
thats a fair enough claim. good point, i didnt really address nor think about that issue.
i daresay there would be a TON of prosumers that want a writable BR burner as well though, and at the current technologies and speeds that just wouldnt be very feasible.
Yes, I would like a burnable Blu-Ray drive on the Macbook Pro as a BTO. More for a backup than anything else. But certainly a combo drive which has the abilities to burn DVDs and read Blu-Ray seemed like a logical step to me for the Pro end laptop, obviously not for Apple.
The whole proprietary "mini" Display Port connector and lack of Blu-Ray are forcing me to look elsewhere for a laptop.
Yes, I would like a burnable Blu-Ray drive on the Macbook Pro as a BTO. More for a backup than anything else. But certainly a combo drive which has the abilities to burn DVDs and read Blu-Ray seemed like a logical step to me for the Pro end laptop, obviously not for Apple.
The whole proprietary "mini" Display Port connector and lack of Blu-Ray are forcing me to look elsewhere for a laptop.
don't get me wrong or anything, i would love to see the burnable bluray drive inside of the MBP as BTO, but for the price and lack of speed in the drive it would hardly be worth it. for just a 2x burnable drive, (probably not even RW capable) you are looking at $700 at least, from apple anyway, we all know what they are like. that drive would take way to long.
according to wiki...
if you are burning a full 50gb DL bluray disc, that is going to take around 5hours to burn. unless you are fine leaving it on overnight, there wont be much time in the day to just let it go. for backup purposes only wouldnt it be much easier (and cheaper) to have a nice big external HD to backup to while you are away on trips etcetc?
i donno thats just how im thinking..