Bluetooth LE Standard Gains Mesh Networking for Improved Smart Home Connectivity

[superunlikely]

Even more radiation.

Actually, almost certainly not. BT uses dynamic transmission power. Just enough to talk to the endpoint and back. Using a mesh network you usually dramatically reduce the average distance of communication.

Of course, this will likely result in more devices, but the net will almost certainly be less RF radiation.

 

[LordQ]

Off topic: Everyone should use Vimeo.

 

[Surf Boy from Barcelona]

Off topic: Everyone should use Vimeo.

Totally agree! I've been buying 4K films from that platform since 2015. Brilliant customer service too!!!

 

[Amazing Iceman]

This is huge! but.. is it safe (secure)?

 

[name99]

Even more radiation.

Just like the light that is bathing you even now...

 

[BorderingOn]

HomeKit absolutely needs this. Sounds like a major hurdle is about to be fixed.
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Very cool, assuming it works right. This is what wifi needs. This and handoff between access points. Wifi is trash.

No way BT LE is replacing wifi. Home automation devices, however, do need to get off of wifi.

 

[Zaqfalcon]

What is the difference/advantage/disadvantage between using Bluetooth over WiFi in this scenario?

 

[Aston441]

Thirty years ago I was promised Bluetooth would replace a serial cable. For thirty years I've been waiting for Bluetooth to do that, but instead it has become buggier and buggier.

I can't even imagine how many bugs this is going to introduce.

I wish they'd concentrate on making the standard as reliable as a serial cable first.

 

[JDiggyDawg]

I saw this got pretty excited. I have yet to get into the home automation world, but I think this will definitely be a help in pushing that technology forward. Excited to see what's to come from this.

 

[ke-iron]

So now we can use bluetooth instead of wifi for multi-room audio? I'm in

Doesn’t think that’s how it works, but you will probably run into buffer issues with multiroom audio streaming via Bluetooth. All Bluetooth devices will have to be sending and receiving audio at the same time to all connected speakers since it’s a mesh network and they’re basically connected to each other sharing the same data. I don’t think it’s meant to be used this way as a constant data stream, transmitting large files bidirectional with multiple devices. Where as something like airplay works differently. The music file that’s being playing from your phone gets uploaded via your wireless router and dished out to each airplay connected speaker at the same time. We already know woof can handle it because of the higher bandwidth. With AirPlay 2 it would be even better since Apple has claimed the buffer is much larger. The new buffer is supposed to hold minutes of a song or something like that, and that’s per each device. Not to mention the resolution is higher so the audio would sound much better.
Airplay 2 is designed for multiroom audio and it’s going to be such a beast.

 

[hotgril]

Handoff between WiFi access points is not an issue if you buy the right networking equipment.

Handoff is handled by the client, not the access points, and the client tends to do a bad job. My iPhone, for example, is dumb enough to stay on a dying connection for like 30 seconds as I walk right next to another AP it could connect to, so I keep having to force it to rescan. My parents' house is a hostile environment for wifi signals themselves due to materials in the walls, so there are many APs, and the problem is extremely apparent there. AirPort Express totally failed the test there. Same with my college housing a few years back, except they had higher-end equipment.

If you buy special wifi equipment with fancy tricks to help with this, it works a lot better (but still not flawlessly). Seems like those employ hacks to get around the deficiency in the wifi standard, like spoofing values or forcing clients to disconnect at a higher threshold, and the latter requires some tuning. Standard equipment like AirPort or whatever modem/router/wifi combo your cable company installs doesn't do the job.

Another issue is interference between APs. Pros are careful to avoid this, then they tell everyone not to set up their own APs. Wireless mesh setups avoid this automatically (separate from mesh routing), though TBH I'm not sure exactly how they do it.

As a result, if my requirement is that I have at least 1 Mbit/s at all times, in my experience LTE has been better than wifi even in buildings with pro wifi setups. I've almost never seen my LTE fail, but wifi always has dead zones.
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No way BT LE is replacing wifi. Home automation devices, however, do need to get off of wifi.

It's possible. BT does support networking, I think IP at the lowest. BT 5 theoretically supports 48 Mbit/s. That's way more than enough for most. If I can get even 4 Mbit/s with Bluetooth but have perfect connectivity and easier setup, I'd gladly take that tradeoff.

 

[Bhatu]

Call it, Blue-Teeth.

 

[BorderingOn]

Handoff is handled by the client, not the access points, and the client tends to do a bad job. My iPhone, for example, is dumb enough to stay on a dying connection for like 30 seconds as I walk right next to another AP it could connect to, so I keep having to force it to rescan. My parents' house is a hostile environment for wifi signals themselves due to materials in the walls, so there are many APs, and the problem is extremely apparent there. Same with my college housing a few years back.

If you buy special wifi equipment with fancy tricks to help with this, it works a lot better (but still not flawlessly). Seems like those employ hacks to get around the deficiency in the wifi standard, like spoofing values or forcing clients to disconnect at a higher threshold, and the latter requires some tuning. Standard equipment like AirPort or whatever modem/router/wifi combo your cable company installs doesn't do the job.

Another issue is interference between APs. Pros are careful to avoid this, then they tell everyone not to set up their own APs. "Mesh network" technology avoids this automatically, though TBH I'm not sure exactly how they do it.

As a result, if my requirement is that I have at least 1 Mbit/s at all times, in my experience LTE has been better than wifi even in buildings with pro wifi setups. I've almost never seen my LTE fail, but wifi always has dead zones.
[doublepost=1500426127][/doublepost]
It's possible. BT does support networking, I think IP at the lowest. BT 5 theoretically supports 48 Mbit/s. That's way more than enough for most. If I can get even 4 Mbit/s with Bluetooth but have perfect connectivity and easier setup, I'd gladly take that tradeoff.

Unless the standard has gained other enhancements, it only supports a raw data rate of about 1Mb, with application throughput lower due to protocol overhead. Mesh spokes likely even lower. No one is going to be satisfied with that. While it may suit some applications, such as home automation, just fine, I stand by my statement about it replacing wifi.

 

[Garsun]

Bluetooth LE is designed to send short messages using very little power. This makes it ideal for sending and receiving status information and short commands such as found in home automation and ibeacon applications. It is not designed to transfer medium or large amounts of data such as found in headsets, headphones, mice, keyboards or any file transfer operations.
"Regular" Bluetooth is designed for these types of applications and is a completely different standard than Bluetooth LE.

I have not read the new specification but I suspect the mesh networking is for Bluetooth LE and not "Regular" Bluetooth. If so it will not help audio applications or any other data networking implementation.
It will help and greatly expand the possibilities in home automation and environmental monitoring and control as well as health monitoring.
[doublepost=1500431729][/doublepost]

Can Tile tracker devices benefit from this or do they not have a way to upgrade firmware?

Since the tile uses the signal strength between your phone and the tile to, very roughly, determine the distance between phone and tile a mesh network will be undesirable to use in this application.

I have not read the new specification but I could imagine that mesh could possibly be useful if the number of hops between the phone and the tile is available. Even so this would not, unfortunately, indicate direction.
Overall it seems to me adding mesh capability to a tile would make it less useful not more useful.

 

[prycop]

Call it, Blue-Teeth.

That’s a bit of a mouthful!

 

[jicon]

Great news.... that means everything back to the iPhone 5 will be supported; pending a future firmware update, if one becomes available.

Sadly, I wouldn't hold my breath with Apple doing firmware updates to chips outside of devices that are currently for sale on their website. There would surely be hardware vendor costs that Apple has again and again outright refused to pay for, be it video card firmware, or older motherboard chipset firmware.

 

[ulyssesric]

Goodbye, ZigBee! You'll not be missed!

 

[Neodym]

R.I.P., ZigBee.
R.I.P., Z-Wave.

The installed base for home lighting systems might have already reached the critical mass to allow ZigBee to survive in that special niche, though.
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Great news mesh networking is the way forward.

Yup - makes it easier to attack networks ...
[doublepost=1500446472][/doublepost]

BT does support networking, I think IP at the lowest. BT 5 theoretically supports 48 Mbit/s. That's way more than enough for most.

"640kB ought to be enough for anybody".

If I can get even 4 Mbit/s with Bluetooth but have perfect connectivity and easier setup, I'd gladly take that tradeoff.

You're probably a tiny minority with that opinion. WiFi is sufficiently matured now to allow stable connections at a massive multiple of that measly 4MBit/s and have a simple setup as well. Of course that also depends on the equipment purchased - el cheapo hardware probably doesn't cut it.

 

[recoil80]

But Bluetooth is super slow, what kind of network are they hoping to replace? It's too slow for internet, or file transfer.

It is not designed for file transfer or internet.
Bluetooth LE is all about consuming less power and sending small chunks of data. It will be great for home automation, not for streaming media around the house I guess

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

Keep your expections low. This is primarily for automation with a few bytes per minute.

Mesh-Routing always failed at throughput. It's used when you want to build a robust, decentralized grid of low-traffic latency tolerant devices.
MESH is actually more complex than most people think, mostly due to routing. I recommend reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.A.T.M.A.N. for those interested in Mesh (WIFI).

 

[Tech198]

This looks good , so each receiver is also a transmitter for all others connected devices.

I guess the only "limited range" then, if one of those devices is not part of mesh. Or you are part of a mesh network, but there is no closer device.

(Kudos to Batman)

 

[PaulRustad007]

And this is how Skynet becomese self aware......

 

[techwarrior]

But Bluetooth is super slow, what kind of network are they hoping to replace? It's too slow for internet, or file transfer.

Exactly, the Mesh concept is similar but the bandwidth with BT is simply not there for high speed Wi-Fi (multimedia or file transfer). Mesh Ethernets have been around for years, Mesh Wi-Fi just recently started to take shape, and now, for low bandwidth BT communications.

The only solution this really offers is the Smart Home type of devices, with limited data traffic. Since BT range is so limited, managing a large number of smart BT enabled devices becomes a challenge without something like this.

Wi-Fi mesh will improve Internet speeds, and afford wider coverage in our homes, but BT Mesh will improve Smart Home reach. Two entirely different things with similar constructs but different purposes.

 

[Rocketman]

Handoff between WiFi access points is not an issue if you buy the right networking equipment.

Such as?

 

[hotgril]

You're probably a tiny minority with that opinion. WiFi is sufficiently matured now to allow stable connections at a massive multiple of that measly 4MBit/s and have a simple setup as well. Of course that also depends on the equipment purchased - el cheapo hardware probably doesn't cut it.

4MBit/s is enough for HD video streaming. For almost everyone, that's the heaviest thing they do. I think half the world just uses cellular data. If you want to cover a wider area with wifi than one AP can provide, as I said above, it gets a lot trickier than you think for reasons originating from shortcomings of the wifi standard.

Well, it's a moot point anyway. LTE and/or 5G will probably replace wifi + home modem, even in the US.
[doublepost=1500479864][/doublepost]

Thirty years ago I was promised Bluetooth would replace a serial cable. For thirty years I've been waiting for Bluetooth to do that, but instead it has become buggier and buggier.

I can't even imagine how many bugs this is going to introduce.

I wish they'd concentrate on making the standard as reliable as a serial cable first.

Yes, I still have never encountered a BT device that successfully pairs every time without retrying. IDK if it's the standard's fault or just crappy implementations. The Apple BT keyboards/mice were always especially annoying. Funny, most wireless keyboards/mice just use a dongle, as if they've given up on BT.