Because people keep asking them to comment on it.Why are these car companies' executives coming out of the woodworks to say they're not afraid of a product that doesn't even exist yet?
Because people keep asking them to comment on it.Why are these car companies' executives coming out of the woodworks to say they're not afraid of a product that doesn't even exist yet?
It is still the case in the UK, just depends on the model of Tesla you want. If I go to their website and want a Model S it says: Est. Delivery: 2022. That's almost a year away.No longer the case. You can order a Model 3/Y now and get it in a few weeks.
But within 12 months (i.e. long before Foxconn starts making EVs or the legacy car companies catch up to Tesla in EVs and batteries) Tesla will have Giga Berlin and Giga Texas fully operational, Giga Shanghai will have much larger manufacturing capacity than it has now, etc. Customers in the UK or any EU country won't be depending on a single Tesla factory in Fremont, California.It is still the case in the UK, just depends on the model of Tesla you want. If I go to their website and want a Model S it says: Est. Delivery: 2022. That's almost a year away.
I know they've gotten much faster at delivery in the USA (est 10-11 weeks for that same Model S there) but their rivals are delivering new models below that time range worldwide. The manufacturing infrastructure Tesla has is very restricted compared to any of their traditional rivals (Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, BWM, Citreon etc).
But to be clear I'm not knocking the company, I think their cars are nice. I'm just saying their problem isn't people don't want their vehicles it's often other issues. They have a very desirable product.
He sleeps peacefully? REally? How can anyone sleep peacefully, when THIS
View attachment 1741150
is in their company product pipeline?
Apple car already looks much better than this, and it doesnt even exist!
That E24 makes me feel some kinda way😍😍 Just like that 850CSi
Blackberry's problem was they saw the iPhone as a consumer device, and their main market was to businesses that wanted enterprise features. Once the iPhone could fit into the enterprise, BB was doomed because so many of their customers already had one as a personal device and liked it; even if they liked their Crackberry. Given the ease of switching a phone vs a car I think Apple will face a bigger challenge if they want to be a mainstream car company.That's what Blackberry CEO said in the 2000s/early days of the iPhone, and look what happened
But within 12 months (i.e. long before Foxconn starts making EVs or the legacy car companies catch up to Tesla in EVs and batteries) Tesla will have Giga Berlin and Giga Texas fully operational, Giga Shanghai will have much larger manufacturing capacity than it has now, etc. Customers in the UK or any EU country won't be depending on a single Tesla factory in Fremont, California.
I am not promising that Tesla will be completely capable of meeting demand a year from now, but at that point it will be in the "good problem to have" category -- the same one Apple has when they release a new especially desirable device like AirPods or a specific iPhone. It's not like the competitors are capable of taking advantage of it and steal Apple's market share by manufacturing their version of the AirPods faster. Customers patiently wait for the real deal.
...Because people/the media are asking them the question? It's not like they're randomly holding press conferences just to say "We're not threatened by the Apple Car. Any questions?".
Knowing that you didn't read the MR post:
"I sleep very peacefully," said Peter when Bloomberg asked for his opinion on Apple entering the car market. "Competition is a wonderful thing - it helps motivate the others."
May be they know something that you don’t?
They are being asked. Jesus Christ... read the articles.
because people keep asking the question.
Because people keep asking them to comment on it.
Model S *now* is more of a preorder since the new refresh + giga berlin. If you checked the archive, placing a Model S order back in November resulted in a March delivery date. https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...a.com/en_GB/models/design?redirect=no#batteryIt is still the case in the UK, just depends on the model of Tesla you want. If I go to their website and want a Model S it says: Est. Delivery: 2022. That's almost a year away.
I know they've gotten much faster at delivery in the USA (est 10-11 weeks for that same Model S there) but their rivals are delivering new models below that time range worldwide. The manufacturing infrastructure Tesla has is very restricted compared to any of their traditional rivals (Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, BWM, Citreon etc).
But to be clear I'm not knocking the company, I think their cars are nice. I'm just saying their problem isn't people don't want their vehicles it's often other issues. They have a very desirable product.
What metrics are you looking at? I was looking at number of vehicles sold worldwide.I agree with the point you are making, but disagree on the details. VW is the number 2 auto company, just barely behind Toyota (just over a billion behind). GM is number 7, at less than half VW. BMW is number 6, just about 1 billion more than GM.
Using pre-pandemic numbers, Toyota sold 10.74 million vehicles around the world in 2019, trailing Volkswagen AG's record annual sales of 10.97 million vehicles.
In 2018, Volkswagen sold 10.83 million vehicles, edging out Toyota for the No. 1 crown.
GM sold 7.72M units.
Who is trailing who?
I was looking at revenue not volume as it feels like a more appropriate comparison. Although I may have been looking at older data.What metrics are you looking at? I was looking at number of vehicles sold worldwide.
For 2020, the numbers were:
1 - 6.5M Toyota
2 - 6.0M VW
3 - 4.1M Hyundai
4 - 3.9M Ford
5 - 3.7M Honda
6 - 3.2M Nissan
7 - 3.0M GM
8 - 2.5M Kia
9 - 2.4M Mercedes
X - 2.0M BMW (Looks like the pandemic helped them in 2020 - normally they're closer to #12 on the global rankings.)
I only said that VW spends a lot of time not in first place. I didn't say they've never been there. I was looking at a much longer period of time - GM has spent a lot of time as the #1 auto company, even if it's been a few years since they last were up there... GM was the top auto company from 2000-2005 and also in 2011. Toyota was the top auto company from 2006-2017 excluding 2011, and also in 2020.
Model S *now* is more of a preorder since the new refresh + giga berlin. If you checked the archive, placing a Model S order back in November resulted in a March delivery date. https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...a.com/en_GB/models/design?redirect=no#battery
I don't see how this refutes anything I said? in USA that same Tesla is estimated 11 weeks. In UK it is almost a year. As I said in my comment: The manufacturing infrastructure Tesla has is very restricted compared to any of their traditional rivals (Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, BWM, Citreon etc).
Their Rivals all have that global manufacturing. That's the problem Tesla has to solve and Apple won't have to solve because they will partner with a Tesla rival who already has the manufacturing ready to go from day one.
Apple just needs to make a car that is desirable and manufacturable by their chosen partners. Tesla has to actually build the factories which is where they're lagging behind. Which is easier to accomplish? - time will tell.
You said "order a car now, receive it in a year". You're cherry picking the data and generalizing that to everything that Tesla does. That mischaracterizes Tesla's most popular products which applies to most people. You can order a Model 3/Y and receive it far less than a year.
Cherry picking? You can get it in 6-11 weeks in USA. 1 year in UK. It's the same model of car, same updated new model. The discrepancy shows the manufacturing bottleneck outside of the US that their competitors don't have.
Also in the UK the Model X is also "estimated: 2022". That's 2 out of 3 models they sell.
Choosing Model S and X that was recently refreshed is cherry picking, yes. Tesla doesn't consider Model S or X to be important at all. Even Elon literally said "Without them, we couldn't spell ‘sexy,’".
Now if you're talking about the Model Y, then refer back to my comment about Ford's Mach-E rollout.
Again, so you can understand my position. These models are available in the USA right now with a 6-11 week lead time. The brand new models.
In the UK it is 1 Year+ for 66% of all the car models they sell. Are you seeing the time discrepancy? This is a sign of their lack of worldwide manufacturing that the new models are available in North America so immediately and the rest of the world has to wait a whole year.
Something that does not happen with other car brands. We're looking to buy a brand new Nissan which is coming out in the summer, we asked the dealer about availability and he said and I quote it will be available worldwide at the same time you'll have it a month or two after the worldwide release date. Same level of release schedule worldwide.
Why? because Nissan has a plant in the UK that pumps these cars out. Just as they do in France, America, Japan etc - Something Tesla does not have.
Sure if you want the old Model 3 you can get it in 3 months in the UK, I'd not call that fast but it's reasonable. But it's not the car we want, we were looking at the Model X which is comparable to the Nissan Qashqai we're also looking at purchasing (the model I spoke about being refreshed above which isn't just a new paint job its the new Generation 3 with an entirely new Chassis, drive train, engine etc).
Also I don't care what Musk or Tesla thinks is important. It's crazy to me that you could announce a new refresh of your vehicles and not have them available for over a year. No one wants to buy the old models once the new models are out, that's the Osbourne effect. I would rather wait 2 months to buy the latest iPhone upon release than walk into a shop and buy last years model. Tesla's issue has always been manufacturing.
You're completely ignoring what I'm saying. Again, you don't have to wait for a Model 3. There's no production "problem". Your idea that waiting "maybe 3 years" is so misleading. All car companies announce a new car years ahead of the first deliveries. So how is that a sign of a "problem" with production?
People in UK are waiting for the Model Y as much as people are still waiting for the Mach-E GT from Ford. Why are you suggesting that Tesla has a production "problem" but still say production problems "[do] not happen with other car brands" like Ford? Cherry picking.
Apple staggered their iPhone release in previous years to different countries. Was that a sign of "production problems"? I wouldn't think so. An iPhone being sold out for months isn't a sign of production "problems" either.
I really don't have time to repeat myself, so I'm going to end it here. Have a good one.
Tesla boss Elon Musk has warned customers against buying one of his firm's cars when it's in the early stages of production, because it may be more prone to quality control issues.
As far as we all know Tesla isn’t going to produce the S or X anywhere but in CA. So building more factories isn‘t really meant for those two vehicles. Generally speaking Tesla refreshes have always taken longer to get to EU/UK than other places because there is more paperwork involved. It is like how you guys have nerfed NoA Highway, or probably wont ever see NoA City Streets.uhuh right.. (Feb 2021):
I'm talking about the Model S and X which have been refreshed and won't be available in the UK for a years time. I don't care about the mythical Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster etc.
When it comes to Ford and the Mach-E GT, many of these companies don't want to transition to electric vehicles before they're pushed to do so as they're heavily invested in ICE vehicle production. Selling literally millions of vehicles a year compared to Tesla's hundreds of thousands. You pick one car from one car manufacturer where as I'm talking about 66% of the cars Tesla makes right now not even being available in Europe for a year when they're available in America from 6 weeks.
Also Apple did do what you said with early iPhones. Did you also forget Tesla has been selling cars for 10 years already? And I never said production problem, you're just changing things because you know you're wrong. I said manufacturing scale, I said compared to the other car makers ability to produce in large volume etc
Tesla's problem has always been the limits of their limited manufacturing capability compared to other car makers. If Apple was able to make enough iPhones for everyone to have they would have done so instead of the staggered launches at the start of the iPhones.
I'm glad you've decided to bow out of the discussion. Anyway some facts about the situation. When was the last time you ever saw their established competitors talking about the need to ramp up production and how difficult it will be, doesn't happen because they already did it and have factories all over the world pumping out cars. Tesla is on that path but it's not here today just accept that fact and move on.
Tesla warns on challenges of scaling up production (Sep 2020)
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Tesla warns on challenges of scaling up production
Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk warned on Tuesday about the difficulties of speeding up production as an expert cautioned the carmaker's increased reliance on large-scale aluminium parts could bring new manufacturing challenges.www.reuters.com
Elon Musk blames production ramp-up for Tesla quality issues (Feb 2021)
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Elon Musk blames production ramp-up for Tesla quality issues | Autocar
Tesla CEO outlines steps taken to tackle well-documented variations in EV manufacturer's build qualitywww.autocar.co.uk
All Elon ever talks about is the factories and how they need more factories, smarter factories, more capacity. How he slept in the conference room at Tesla's Freemont factory during Model 3 ramp-up. How they made a separate manufacturing line outside using temporary buildings to increase production to meet demand.
But sure, farewelwilliams says there's no production problem, give me a break dude. I point out one little issue that Tesla is working to overcome by their own admittance hundreds of times and you come out of the woodwork guns blazing. This company is not your friend and defending them is pointless.