Bought Mac on eBay + shipping snafu = bad!

[Corran Horn]

Just wanted to give you my experience with something like this. I was expecting a chair to be delivered and UPS would not leave it at my door. When I talked to them I was informed that it was the Driver's decision to leave a package at the door, and that they DO NOT leave packages at the doors in Apartment buildings. (now many of you have said that they do leave them at your apartments so I don't know about that info from UPS.)

I ended up having to drive to the nearest UPS facility to pick up the chair, it was about a 30-45 minute drive one way, so I wasn't too happy, at least until I got the chair.

Hope you get everything straightened out soon.

 

[suneohair]

Well the seller called me. She is very nice. Calmed my fears a lot. However, while I am sure she wants to give my money back. The insurance claim may be a problem. I don't know if it will be or not. I don't want her to be out, but....

I am worried because there was no signature UPS may say ha ha. See ya. However, we got a lot of snow and all my classes were cancelled that day. I was home ALL DAY. Nobody knocked on my door. And no package was at MY front door. The UPS man never even attempted to hand it to me.

 

[Mikael]

Leaving a package at the entrance of an apartment building? That's like a bad joke! Where I live (Sweden), no one would even think of leaving packages around just like that. Stupidity redefined...

 

[flyinmac]

AFAIK all UPS deliveries require a signature unless you sign a waiver with UPS which is kept on file. If you haven't done so, then obviously the driver cannot leave the package without a signature according to the rules they are supposed to follow.

Actually, I avoid UPS like the plague.

I will pick a vendor based on shipping services. I first choose U.S. Mail. If that's not available, then FedEx.

But, if I cannot find a product at a place that uses either of those, then I will resort to one that uses UPS.

Considering that, I have still received a lot of packages through UPS, and can offer my experience with that.

First, I have never had to sign for a package with UPS regardless of value. They do not have a signature on file from me. The closest to them ever requiring a signature, is the few times they've handed it to me. I've even received packages (containing confidential information) that were intended for prior residents of my address.

Further, all the packages that I've received in the last 2 years through UPS have been thrown onto my porch by the drivers. I do mean that literally. I have a raised porch (one story off the ground). I don't have any reason to leave the house, so I am always here. And, I hear everything that happens in the yard (my house - not an apartment building).

The driver will usually park at the street, and walk into the yard. He'll walk up next to the porch, and just throw it up onto the porch while standing on the ground (doesn't bother to climb the flight of steps).

I did catch them being gentler one time. They walked-up next to the porch and reached through the rails to shove it up onto the porch.

So, I can tell you that they don't bother to even see if anyone is home when they deliver. They just throw it on the porch and run back to their truck. I usually open the door as soon as I hear it land on the porch, and they're already almost back to their truck. It's just throw and run.

I've lived on many different routes, and it's pretty much always been that way.

I would never ship anything of value through UPS.

 

[emac82]

I hope everything works out for you.

I would hate to see you not get your Mac, and I would hate for the the seller to lose $1300 because she forgot to ask for a signature.

I am very surprised that UPS would deliver a box like that to an Apartment building without a signature. I mean, at least try to go to the person's door first.

I ship Canada Post & Purolator and I always request a signature when I am shipping something.

It's a ****** situation..Keep us updated.

 

[ITASOR]

I watched out the window as UPS left my MacBook on my front porch (which we don't use) step and walked away, without a knock, door bell ring, or anything. If I wasn't watching out the window (which the driver didn't see), it would have been out there all day, as it came a day earlier than expected.

I still don't hold a grudge against UPS. All companies "mess up". How can you blame a company for something that a worker did? Maybe there's some bad UPS drivers, but that doesn't mean the COMPANY is bad. They don't lose people's packages on purpose...

 

[madmaxmedia]

This is a weird one. I don't think the seller has committed any sort of huge wrongdoing. I mean yes there may be certain Paypal rules and this or that, but 99% of the time you ship something, it gets there, end of transaction. I'm not saying she's not liable or whatever, just saying it looks like you both got really unlucky here.

I've sold computers before, and shipped via UPS or FedEx without the thought occurring to me, "Wait, what are Paypal and EBay regulations on this? Maybe UPS has changed their signature delivery regulations?" Etc...

It looks like the seller and you are on the same page, and working together. That's the good thing. It seems obvious no one is out to scam anyone (except whoever made off with your computer...)

The one hitch here is that the seller under-insured. I would imagine that it would be up to her to cover the difference.

Good luck-

 

[snowmoon]

Living in a quiet, dead end neighborhood I've never had a problem with disappearing packages, but I have had more than one problem with ups and prefer USPS or FedEx if at all possible.

On more than one occasion I've had UPS get my neighbors to sign for packages.

On one occasion UPS showed a package delivered for 3 hours before the driver showed up on my doorstep.

And that doesn't count all the stores I've hear from people that have worked as UPS drivers and how they drop kick packages when they are bored. I wish I were kidding.

 

[Willis]

Hmm... not sure how things really work in the US as far postage is concerned, but here, all parcels have to be signed for and/or will not be left if no one answers. It simply goes back to the depo.

Hope your laptop finds your way to you

 

[butaro]

Hmm... not sure how things really work in the US as far postage is concerned, but here, all parcels have to be signed for and/or will not be left if no one answers. It simply goes back to the depo.

Hope your laptop finds your way to you

same thing here, unless it is in a small letter sized envelope that can go in a mailbox.

 

[flyinmac]

Hmm... not sure how things really work in the US as far postage is concerned, but here, all parcels have to be signed for and/or will not be left if no one answers. It simply goes back to the depo.

Hope your laptop finds your way to you

Don't confuse the USPS with UPS.

USPS (U.S. Postal Service) does require a signature on packages that won't fit into your secured box. And, then if the shipper requests a signature they will require a signature regardless of whether it fits in the box or not.

But, UPS is a private company. UPS does not require a signature for deliveries (or if they do, they never bother to ask for one). They just set it somewhere and expect that you'll find it eventually.

FedEx always requires a signature no matter what (unless you have specifically signed a waiver).

 

[flyinmac]

Yes it is on UPSs shoulders, however the seller agrees to produce an item for me. That has not happened. If the package had been damaged it would be a different story. I would have to file the claim.

If the seller would have required signature, we wouldnt be here right now. You don't send a $1300 (insured for $1000...) and not have a signature. That is asking for trouble, and indeed from what I have read Paypal only protects you if you require signature for items over $250.

I most assuredly don't want to make this a hassle, but it is not my responsiblity to file a claim and I most assuredely can't wait around for the claim to go through before I get my money back.

Well, the one thing that no one seems to have addressed here, is whether you were even "entitled" to insurance.

It is very commonly known that the buyer is responsible for requesting the seller to add insurance if they desire it (particularly on private sales). Further, the buyer is also expected to pay whatever the additional fees are to cover the requested insurance.

This is standard practice on e-bay and other online sales.

Insurance is not an automatic right. The seller is absolved of all responsibility if they can prove they shipped it, shipped it to your address, and did not commit any fraud. If you do not elect to purchase insurance (especially in an e-bay transaction), you elect to take the risk that it might become lost or damaged in transit.

So, unless the price you paid was specifically stated to include insurance, then it should be assumed that you were only paying for shipping. Again, standard practice in e-bay.

If the price was specifically stated to include insurance, then it should have been insured for the full value.

But, if the carrier has a maximum value that they will cover, then naturally that becomes a factor. I've shipped some packages that could not be insured for more than $1000.

And, depending on the specific shipping method, some carriers let you declare a value, but will not explicitly cover the product for that value. It's just a declared value that is used in the claims process, but not explicitly insurance.

So, if you did not request and specifically pay for insurance coverage, then you really would not be entitled to that coverage.

If that is the case, then the fact that she did insure it for $1000 is pure bonus. That would mean that she decided to offer you additional protection on your purchase, and therefore provided you with more than you purchased. If the coverage is $300 less than the price of the machine you purchased, then so be it. That's still more coverage than you were entitled to if you didn't explicitly pay for shipping insurance.

Just some points to consider before you fault her for only insuring it for $1000. If you didn't explicitly pay for and request insurance, then you could be without any insurance coverage at all. So, consider yourself lucky that she threw you a bonus.

Of course, if you did explicitly agree on her including full insurance for the price you paid, then that is different. But, of course, that would still be subject to the maximum allowed by the shipper for the shipping method, and package type.

 

[suneohair]

Well, the one thing that no one seems to have addressed here, is whether you were even "entitled" to insurance.

It is very commonly known that the buyer is responsible for requesting the seller to add insurance if they desire it (particularly on private sales). Further, the buyer is also expected to pay whatever the additional fees are to cover the requested insurance.

This is standard practice on e-bay and other online sales.

Insurance is not an automatic right. The seller is absolved of all responsibility if they can prove they shipped it, shipped it to your address, and did not commit any fraud. If you do not elect to purchase insurance (especially in an e-bay transaction), you elect to take the risk that it might become lost or damaged in transit.

So, unless the price you paid was specifically stated to include insurance, then it should be assumed that you were only paying for shipping. Again, standard practice in e-bay.

If the price was specifically stated to include insurance, then it should have been insured for the full value.

But, if the carrier has a maximum value that they will cover, then naturally that becomes a factor. I've shipped some packages that could not be insured for more than $1000.

And, depending on the specific shipping method, some carriers let you declare a value, but will not explicitly cover the product for that value. It's just a declared value that is used in the claims process, but not explicitly insurance.

So, if you did not request and specifically pay for insurance coverage, then you really would not be entitled to that coverage.

If that is the case, then the fact that she did insure it for $1000 is pure bonus. That would mean that she decided to offer you additional protection on your purchase, and therefore provided you with more than you purchased. If the coverage is $300 less than the price of the machine you purchased, then so be it. That's still more coverage than you were entitled to if you didn't explicitly pay for shipping insurance.

Just some points to consider before you fault her for only insuring it for $1000. If you didn't explicitly pay for and request insurance, then you could be without any insurance coverage at all. So, consider yourself lucky that she threw you a bonus.

Of course, if you did explicitly agree on her including full insurance for the price you paid, then that is different. But, of course, that would still be subject to the maximum allowed by the shipper for the shipping method, and package type.

My entitlement is irrelevant in this situation. The package never arrived. Ponder this scenario:

Package gets lost in the mail. Buyer payed with paypal, thus package never arrived. UPS does investigation. They don't find. I file a paypal claim for item not recieved. I win the claim because I never got anything. Seller didn't insure it. She just lost said amount.

Insurance is no bonus to me. In more cases it protects the seller than it does the buyer. She has to file the claim since it is lost/stolen. I have to file when the item comes to me damaged.

That hypothetical fits this situation perfectly. But she did get insurance. Thus instead of losing $1300, she is only going to lose $300. Big difference, sounds like a bonus for her.

Besides I already said that I asked if she would insure it, and she said yes. If it would have been extra I would have paid. She didn't say it was.

So consider reading or asking me before you go on a rant, where the facts you have presented are irrevelant. And don't give me this "bonus" crap. If you want to ship a $1300 item with no insurance, let alone no signature you are asking for trouble. Regardless of whether or not the buyer asked for insurance.

When you buy from Apple, do you pay extra for insurance, maybe. Do they give you the option? No. Do they even tell you if they insure it? No. You better believe they do though, again regardless of whether or not the buyer asked for it.

 

[flyinmac]

My entitlement is irrelevant in this situation. The package never arrived. Ponder this scenario:

Package gets lost in the mail. Buyer payed with paypal, thus package never arrived. UPS does investigation. They don't find. I file a paypal claim for item not recieved. I win the claim because I never got anything. Seller didn't insure it. She just lost said amount.

Insurance is no bonus to me. In more cases it protects the seller than it does the buyer. She has to file the claim since it is lost/stolen. I have to file when the item comes to me damaged.

That hypothetical fits this situation perfectly. But she did get insurance. Thus instead of losing $1300, she is only going to lose $300. Big difference, sounds like a bonus for her.

Besides I already said that I asked if she would insure it, and she said yes. If it would have been extra I would have paid. She didn't say it was.

So consider reading or asking me before you go on a rant, where the facts you have presented are irrevelant. And don't give me this "bonus" crap. If you want to ship a $1300 item with no insurance, let alone no signature you are asking for trouble. Regardless of whether or not the buyer asked for insurance.

When you buy from Apple, do you pay extra for insurance, maybe. Do they give you the option? No. Do they even tell you if they insure it? No. You better believe they do though, again regardless of whether or not the buyer asked for it.

Forget it.

I was simply pointing out a few things to consider. I was not lecturing you. Sorry that after reading through more than 60 posts that I missed a line here or there.

It was not meant to insult you, or say that you were wrong. It was merely points of consideration.

You actually had my sympathy for your unfortunate situation. But, now, thanks to your enlightening reply, I really couldn't care less. If you reply to everything with that level of maturity, I expect you'll get nowhere.

Have fun with your fight.

 

[suneohair]

Forget it.

I was simply pointing out a few things to consider. I was not lecturing you. Sorry that after reading through more than 60 posts that I missed a line here or there.

It was not meant to insult you, or say that you were wrong. It was merely points of consideration.

You actually had my sympathy for your unfortunate situation. But, now, thanks to your enlightening and foully worded reply, I really couldn't care less. If you reply to everything with that level of maturity, I expect you'll get nowhere.

Have fun with your fight.

I apologize. But it sounded as if you were saying I was the lucky one and I should be losing my money in this situation.

I understand where you were coming from, but I simply pointed out that what you were saying was invalid. Insurance is not a bonus to me.

And if you plan on questioning my maturity through an internet post, good luck to you I say. In no way did I say anything that was foul.

I simply suggested that you read what I stated. I am pretty sure that somewhere here I stated that I asked if insurance was included. In fact, I think it was in response to you, because you had found the auction and noted no insurance was mentioned.

Points taken and countered. This is a discussion, which you can't seem to handle.

 

[madmaxmedia]

But more likely than not, the package did arrive.

I'm not blaming you, but I think you're pushing a bit too far in terms of describing the seller's responsibility. Once it's out the door and in in transit, I'm not sure who legally is responsible for the item.

If I sell something cheaper to someone, I'm just going to drop it off and probably not worry about delivery signature- should I? If the package tracking indicates the item as being delivered, I don't think it's my problem anymore. Now if the buyer specifically asked for delivery signature because they live in a high-crime area, or an apartment, then of course I'll oblige. But it's black and white here. It does indeed make sense that a more expensive items should require signature for delivery, but what's the cutoff? $500? $100? $10?

I don't think there's a cut and dried rule on how something should be shipped. I would never assume that a seller would ship an item with signature required for receipt, because a lot of people DON'T want that.

 

[scan]

That is why I always stay away from ebay transactions involving UPS.

 

[livingfortoday]

But it's black and white here. It does indeed make sense that a more expensive items should require signature for delivery, but what's the cutoff? $500? $100? $10?

Actually, the cut-off is $250, since that's what PayPal requires in order to be eligible for their seller protection. Any smart seller would ship with signature confirmation, otherwise PayPal will find on the side of the buyer in any dispute.

It may seem unfair, but it's pretty clearly stated on their site, and the seller had no excuse for not following their simple guidelines. I'm not saying that a dispute is in order here (at least not yet), but those rules are there to protect sellers, and it's just common sense to follow them. She didn't, so... there we go.

 

[suneohair]

Regardless of what the buyer wants. To be protected by Paypal you have to put a signature on items over $250. That is the rule if you are using paypal.

I know the package arrived. Just not into my hands and because of that it was lifted, either by some passer by or the driver himself.

 

[AaronICT]

Reminds me of my UPS story (well not really, but how bad UPS is)

Two years ago, I lived in a very small apartment building where the UPS thought it would be "cool" or "acceptable" to place my brand new $400 Behringer mixer outside of the external door of our apartment building, even though I called UPS several days in advance and they promised me that it would be delivered INSIDE the building. Anyway, the driver set it -- get this -- on top of the mailboxes for the apartment building outside. And left.

And it rained all day (well, continued to rain, since it was raining when he delivered it). When I got home the cardboard was literally falling apart.

I was very upset. THANKFULLY, it was packaged inside a big plastic bag inside the box it was shipped in, so only the box got ruined, but the driver didn't know that.

I always look for FedEx if there's an option. And if I have two stores or sellers selling the same item, one offering UPS and one FedEx, I'll go with the guy using FedEx, even if he may cost more.

I really hope it all works out for you!

 

[iW00t]

Like the others mentioned, if you paid with paypal file a dispute with paypal immediately to freeze the funds in her account (or reverse the withdrawal to her bank account if she moved the funds out already).

It's the first step to being in control again. Next for good measure file a chargeback with your credit card issuer. The seller will learn not to underinsure nor accept paypal payments from then onwards (for the record I do not accept paypal payments under any circumstances), but I pay with it all the time

 

[iW00t]

But more likely than not, the package did arrive.

I'm not blaming you, but I think you're pushing a bit too far in terms of describing the seller's responsibility. Once it's out the door and in in transit, I'm not sure who legally is responsible for the item.

Ever wonder why real companies always uses couriers with online tracking, or why the checkout clerk always makes it a point to match the signature on your receipt to the one on the back of your credit card?

Liability for retailers accepting credit cards do not end until almost 90 days later, and can even bite from even up to 180 days depending on the issuing bank.

In the case of this seller if I were the buyer I'd just dispute it and let her burn, if she doesn't have my signature in any shape or form she basically fries, it is that simple.

 

[net26]

you're all forgeting that the driver himself might be the culprit here... seeing a package insured for $1000 with no sig. required?

could be he "bought" himself a new macbook recently...

my $0.02

n

 

[CEAbiscuit]

I recently had 2 packages, form 2 different vendors, on 2 consecutive days "delivered" to my home by UPS... they said the packages were on the front porch. Calledand made claims, got items re-sent by vendors - luckily both packages were under $50 in value.

Fast forward 4 weeks later on a rainy night... there are the 2 original boxes together dropped at the bottom of my my porch steps.

I hope the night they re-deliver your computer it isn;t raining. UPS can really suck.

 

[apb3]

Man.... I'm trying to get my post count over 100 (heh... here's one more!) just so I can try to sell my wife's mac mini here instead of with ebay hell in order to avoid all this nonsense.

OP, I feel for you and hope it works out but, jeezus h christ on a tricycle! As a seller I could see me or my wife making some fool mistake and not ticking the box requiring a sig or not realizing the magic $250 level for insurance or whatever.

If you are still having problems getting this sorted, try mentioning the idea of a standard duty of care to UPS.

Back home, I spoke with UPS guys in Boston, Chicago and Ft Hood when I lived in each place and wanted to avoid having to pick up packages at the depot when I couldn't sign and none of them would have ever considered leaving an item of obvious high value without getting some sort of signature or giving it to me directly. Regardless of what the seller did or didn't ask for, the way they described it was that any idiot would realize you don't just leave a [insert expenive item here] out in the open for anyone to just snatch up. Even if they had no real obligation to do so, they would ensure the item was properly delivered. The bad PR for the company, the headache for them [the drivers] dealing with any missing item invetigation, etc... just made it a no-brainer for the guys I spoke with. But maybe "no-brainer" is the key phrase with your driver??

Anyway, somebody ask me something so I can add another post towards the 100...