Brees's accomplishment vs Marino's

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by rocknblogger, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. rocknblogger macrumors 68020

    rocknblogger

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    #1
    I'm old enough to have seen Marino play and even live at the stadium. I think considering the rule changes and the fact that in the 80's it was a much more running focused league Marino's record stands above Brees.

    I'm not taking anything away from Brees but two other QBs will probably surpass 5048 yards also.

    Today the game is far more focused on passing than it was back then and I think it shows by the number of QBs who throw for an average of 4500 yards.

    What do you think?
     
  2. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #2
    I think they are amazing accomplishments by both Marino and Brees. And lets not forget that Brees did it in 15 games, not the 16 that it took Marino.
     
  3. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #3
    Pats fan here ...

    Both guys aren't so great ... wake me up when they've won more than 1 super bowl (combined ... lol).

    Personal stats are useless and often detract from team play.
     
  4. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #4
    This is what I think. Without Brees's Offensive teammates, his defense allowing him more field time, his coaching staff creating plays, his trainers, his owners providing facilities etc etc etc etc, he would never of surpassed the record.

    Put him all alone on the field and see what happens.
     
  5. rocknblogger thread starter macrumors 68020

    rocknblogger

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    #5
    True but when Marino did it the game was a lot different. I wonder how many of those yards came from draw plays. Back in the 80's draw plays weren't used nearly as much and most pass were downfield.

    The Saints had two running backs with 128 receptions for 1070 yards while the Dolphins had only one running back with 61 receptions for 579 yards. Clearly the game was played differently and most of Marino's yards came from longer passes.
    Typical hater. This isn't about championships, it's about the achievement of two great quarterbacks. If it was Brady you would be saying he is the greatest ever.

    And let's keep in mind it's a team game. Brady hasn't had the best Super Bowl performances. Since he lost to the Giants they haven't even won a playoff game. Just goes to show it takes more than a good quarterback.
    Yes of course and I think everyone understands that but they still have to have the ability to throw the ball accurately and consistently.
     
  6. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #6
    Brady is going to pass the record this week too. It doesn't matter. It's just a stat. The fact that multiple quarterbacks are going to pass the record this season says more than one guy breaking it.

    I can make the argument that Brady is the greatest ever whether or not he holds the single season passing record. But you can't make the argument that Marino is the best ever because he never won a championship. Brees would have to win another one (and probably two) to be in the discussion.
     
  7. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #7
    You could argue that Brady is only as good as the team and coaches around him. Would he of had the success on the Chiefs. Marino was a great QB on a mediocre team, put him on great team and how many SB rings would he have gotten.

    Favre only has one ring, is he not better than Brady?
     
  8. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #8
    I wasn't around when Marino set that record. However, I do believe that it is more of a stat like many others downplay it.

    This is a goal that no QB in 27 years could beat. Now, true we get many QBs this season who have come very close. Yes you could argue the game dynamics have changed, but that still doesn't make it less of a challenge.

    If the defense is bad, the QB won't have a chance to throw the ball; likewise, if the offense is bad the QB won't complete the passes. Brees did this with a team that was once ridiculed and even its own fans wore brown bags to games. This speaks volumes now.

    Also, I think of those rings as the nerdy kid in high school who got teacher awards, vs the other nerdy kid who got good grades yet wasn't liked as much as the other kid.
     
  9. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #9
    You can make that argument about any player ever. If Manning played for the Raiders how good would he be? What if Bradshaw played for the 70s patriots? They were horrible. Or Montana on the detroit lions?

    The point is that you can't make these kind of hypothetical arguments in sports? There are too many factors that go in to these things. It is impossible to know how X player would play on Y team and how Y team would play without X player.
     
  10. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #10
    Look at Payton, the team is horrible without him, so we know he could most likely play anywhere and be good. The Pats did ok without Brady the year he was out.
     
  11. steve2112 macrumors 68040

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    #11
    49ers fan here. Wake me up when Brady wins his 4th. And two league MVPs. And three Super Bowl MVPs.

    See? Anyone can play this game.

    Anyway, I really like Brees and I think he was an amazing pickup by the Saints. I grew up in and still live in Saints territory, and I can tell you he and Sean Payton have completely turned around the image of that team. I like the guy because he isn't the prototypical NFL QB.

    With that being said, I respect Marino's accomplishment more. I also watched him (never live, sadly) during his prime, and he was basically a one man show. The Dolphins never had much of a running game or defense to speak of. Also, they never had what most would consider superstar receivers. Yeah, he had Clayton and Duper, but still.

    I think the fact that two other guys will probably break the record says more about the league today. The rules have been changed over the years to favor the passing game, and it has gotten worse lately in the name of safety. There have been a lot more penalties the past couple of years for stuff like leading with the head, hitting a "defenseless" player, etc. All of this has led to huge increases in offensive numbers.
     
  12. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #12
    Not to nitpick, but Brady does have 2 NFL MVPs. :p And more rings and Super Bowl MVPs than any other player in the past 20 years.

    But I agree with you. It's useless making these hypothetical comparisons because there is no limit to them, and they have no bearing on what actually happens.

    I couldn't be happier for what those guys have done for New Orleans. I've never been there, but I am quite interested by the city and the culture down there, and after what they went through with Katrina, they couldn't have deserved it more. I've rooted for them the past few years, they're probably my favorite team in the NFC (maybe it has to do with the black and gold in my blood :D).

    I think you hit the nail on the head here. The game has changed to favor passing, and as much as it's a big accomplishment for Brees to break a 28 year old record, the fact that Brady and possibly Rodgers are going to break it too says more about it than Brees breaking it a few days before these guys.
     
  13. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #13
    He's referring to the GOAT, Cool Joe. To be the best he's got to beat the best. Cool Joe Montana is the best. He lead the 'niners to 4 SB wins in the 80's; more rings, more awards, and better stats than Brady.
     
  14. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #14
    lol ... Brady already has 3 SB rings and he's on his way to number 4 this year.

    and he's pass that stupid yardage record at the same (and thereby trounce the idiots in the OP's post).
     
  15. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #15
    The Pats are not getting to the SB this year.
     
  16. steve2112 macrumors 68040

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    #16
    I'm glad somebody recognized it. :)

    4-0 in Super Bowls, 127.8 passer rating, 1142 yards, 11 TDs, and ZERO INTs, three MVPs during said Super Bowls. He may not own all the records, but he came up big when it mattered.

    Anyway, I still think most of the modern QBs pale in comparison to the real greatest, Johnny Unitas. The guy threw at least 1 TD pass in 47 consecutive games in an era when the defense could basically mug the receivers at will. He was the first player to throw for over 40,000 yards while playing in 12-14 game seasons. He threw 32 TD passes in a 12 game season in 1959. It's like Jim Brown: the numbers are good, but when compared to contemporaries, they are huge.
     
  17. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #17
    Well duh. This isn't my first year watching football. Everyone knows Montana was the best QB to ever play football. But Brady's right up there. His numbers are comparable to Montana.

    Montana: 117-47; 63.2% comp; 40551 yards; 273 touchdowns; 139 interceptions; 92.3 rating
    4x Superbowl, 8x Pro Bowl, 3x SB MVP, 2x NFL MVP, 3x 1st team All Pro

    Brady: 123-35; 63.8% comp; 39641 yards; 297 touchdowns; 114 interceptions; 96.3 rating
    3x Superbowl, 7x Pro Bowl, 2x SB MVP, 2x NFL MVP, 2x 1st team All Pro

    They are quite close actually as far as the numbers go.
     
  18. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #18
    Not even close.

    ----------

    lol.
     
  19. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #19
    That's why Brees' locker room speech after the game was so awesome. He told everyone he wanted them to consider this record a team achievement and not about him alone. He thanked every person on the team and the staff for their part in helping the Saints achieve this, even the guys that wipe down the football before the offense takes the field. That one got a rise out of everyone in the locker room as he literally said something like, "thanks to the guys who rub down those balls" and everyone laughed. Brees is truly a humble guy who knows how blessed he is. He understands that football is a team effort and vocally shared the credit and praise with all of his teammates.

    Here's a link to a video of the post game locker room.
     
  20. Naimfan macrumors 601

    Naimfan

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    #20
    No.
     
  21. Queen of Spades macrumors 68030

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    #21
    I think Marino's record is more impressive than Brees/Brady/Rodgers breaking it. The era was just different, and the fact that it stood so long speaks for itself.

    Uhm, hell no. No. Absolutely not, no.

    This. When it's all said and done, I really do think Brady will pass Montana. He's 1 SB, 1 SB MVP, and 1 1st team All Pro behind him with probably 3-4 elite years left. He already has more wins, a better completion percentage, and a better QBR. I admit I was born and raised in Boston, but he's the best.
     
  22. rocknblogger thread starter macrumors 68020

    rocknblogger

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    #22
    That's true it's tough to make hypothetical arguments but, the Pats kept winning even when Brady was down. The colts went 0-13 without Manning. I think that speaks volumes in Manning's favor. Put him on the Pats and he might have 5 rings.
     
  23. rocknblogger thread starter macrumors 68020

    rocknblogger

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    #23
    The one huge difference between Montana and Brady…when Brady gets hit he's not as effective. Montana wasn't fazed by it and believe me he was hit more and harder than any quarterback today.

    The rules were so different back then I used to watch and just could not believe some of the hits those guys took, both QB's and receivers.

    That's also why I think there will never be another Jerry Rice. Guys will probably break his records but there can never be a comparison of any kind.
     
  24. GoreVidal macrumors 6502a

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  25. Queen of Spades macrumors 68030

    Queen of Spades

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    #25
    The Patriots won that year with a creampuff schedule, a capable backup and one of the greatest coaches of all time. They still didn't make the playoffs. But yes, I'm proud of them stepping up without Brady in 2008, the Colts laid down this year in my opinion. And Matt Cassel > Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky. I think the Pats winning without Brady and the Colts tanking without Manning is just as indicative of a much better coaching staff and a superior organization. A QB alone is not worth 13 wins. Sorry, but no.

    I can only imagine what Brady would have done if he had Jerry Rice. Before 2007 (after he'd already won 3 Super bowls), Brady never had any elite wide receivers to throw to. In 2007 and beyond, when his numbers became ridiculous, he had Randy Moss and later the Gronkowski/Hernandez/Welker trifecta. In his early career, he was throwing to David Patten, Jabar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, etc. Those Super Bowl Patriots' offenses were carried by Tom Brady.
     

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