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Sorry, forgot sarcasm doesn't portray well in text. Basically, I'm just in the camp that's baffled as to why Apple is the big target, when other industries, especially video games, have walled garden systems as well.

Also, the bigger baffle, Apple's not even the market leader, so how are they a monopoly? They're no more a monopoly when it comes to their App Stores than Sony is of their Playstation Store.
Ah ok. Then in this case I agree. You can always use /s to denote sarcasm.
 
As long as the walled garden is a paradise I’m staying… and hoping that no regulation will tear down the wall
That's actually the issue though. It's not a paradise for many users, the lack of freedom is a pain in the butt. Give us the capabilities and freedoms of macOS on the iPhone and this whole issue will go away. Apple isn't going to give us that though, not because of "privacy and security" (because, um, macOS is extremely private and secure, duh), but because the lock-in is extremely lucrative, in particular the Apple App Store monopoly. So here we are, in litigation and legislation land, and it's only going to continue to ramp up.
 
Governments around the world don’t care about your privacy. The only the thing they want is control over their people. Especially in the west. Apple became a very successful company by innovating and creating awesome technologies. This is basically governments cracking down on successful enterprises which subsequently stifle innovation but the real goal here is a clear attack on the private citizens right to privacy.

No one is really locked into the walled garden. You can sell your tech and buy another brand. No biggie. Anyway, I’d rather trust a company like Apple than let’s say the European autocrats who literally no one voted for. Lol.
"Especially in the west."

Uh huh. Because China is freedom, right?
 
Nobody has argued otherwise with respect to Safari. Though which is the default is a different story.


Except for using Google as the default with Siri.


$15 billion says otherwise.
I’m not sure you realise with your insistence to find issues, but we have gone from arguing that Google is the default search engine in safari, to it being Siri related, which is a whole different conversation.

You started off indeed ‘arguing otherwise with respect to Safari’, and now you seem to have accepted that and moved completly Siri to ‘prove’ you’re right.

Well. You are right to a degree, as I stated previously. But there is no hypocrisy, which was your initial argument. Moving sh.it around and changing the parameters doesn’t change it.
 
If Walmart was part of a duopoly and/or had monopoly power, antitrust regulators would target and investigate them more. The reason companies like Apple and Google are targets is because of their dominance in markets like mobile OS.

When Walmart moves in, they decimate local businesses. They drove American jobs to China, but they also 'golden shower' DC with copious amounts of cash and I guess that cash buys them coverage. Too big to jail, or too well covered to jail. Hmm...
 
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I’m not sure you realise with your insistence to find issues, but we have gone from arguing that Google is the default search engine in safari, to it being Siri related, which is a whole different conversation.

You started off indeed ‘arguing otherwise with respect to Safari’, and now you seem to have accepted that and moved completly Siri to ‘prove’ you’re right.

Well. You are right to a degree, as I stated previously. But there is no hypocrisy, which was your initial argument. Moving sh.it around and changing the parameters doesn’t change it.
Parameters haven't changed. You seem to be unable to recognize that I've simply added (not replaced) ways in which Apple is being hypocritical. Apple can simultaneously be hypocritical for making Google the default search engine in Safari (even though you can change it) and also for having Google as the only default available for Siri. Those two things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to wish and it's also possible to discuss both here.
 
"Especially in the west."

Uh huh. Because China is freedom, right?
Right. But what does that mean? Nothing. Your assuming that China bad the west good? That’s a flawed concept. They’re terrible, that’s no secret. But just because we have democracy doesn’t mean they don’t want the same results. China just demands. The west regulates. The result is the same.
 
Parameters haven't changed. You seem to be unable to recognize that I've simply added (not replaced) ways in which Apple is being hypocritical. Apple can simultaneously be hypocritical for making Google the default search engine in Safari (even though you can change it) and also for having Google as the only default with Siri. Those two things are not mutually exclusive as you seem to wish and it's also possible to discuss both.
‘Adding’ equates to moving the goalposts. You have done that.

Asking an AI to answer a question is a different concept to searching the web via safari. Again, it should be changeable, but it’s a different argument.
 
[…]
The argument isn't about whether or not Google returns the best search results. It's about whether or not Apple places user privacy over profits. Actions speak louder than words and those actions say no.
To me apple strikes a good balance between user experience and privacy. The $$$ are an added bonus. Same thing would happen without the $$$.
 
No it's not lmao. Are you seriously trying to say it's only possible to be hypocritical for a single reason? It's not possible to be hypocritical in multiple ways??
Nope. I’m just saying that arguing for one thing, and then opening up the argument to include other thing which weren’t obvious or even implied in the initial argument is the very definition of ‘moving the goalposts’.
 
More than Google, I am more interested in how this pans out for Apple. Apple's business model revolves around its ability to play a particular "lock in"/"protect the Apple buyer" (comes down to how you look at it) game and Apple's methodologies seem to be going against how the regulators are leaning in 2022.

For myself I have been playing the game of being able to live in whichever "world" best suits me (currently its mixed with macOS and Android) in the moment and I feel the ability to be nimble in which devices I use is the best way to go.

PS What has made me able to disconnected from Apple's walled garden (and insulate me from Google's) is to 1) not use iCloud for the most part (don't get me wrong as I still do… just not for some core things) and 2) use a NAS that puts most of my cloud storage and services into my own hands and not that of either Apple or Google.
Agreed. I actually use a MBP and an iPhone, but same as you, avoid the iCloud death like the plague. The so called "ecosystem integration" between the 2 devices is the most annoying pain in the butt, and I've had to turn off iCloud almost entirely.

For example, why on hell is there no control over Text Replacement between the devices. Text Replacement makes perfect sense on an iPhone, where there is no full sized keyboard, but makes zero sense to have those same replacements automatically transfer to the MBP, and have absolutely no way to leave them on on the iPhone, but turn them off on the MBP, except to log out of iCloud entirely on the MBP. It does my head in. Do these software devs simply not even use Apple devices?
 
Nope. I’m just saying that arguing for one thing, and then opening up the argument to include other thing which weren’t obvious or even implied in the initial argument is the very definition of ‘moving the goalposts’.
Again, moving the goal posts would necessitate changing the condition which renders Apple hypocrites. The original condition of Apple making Google the default in Safari still exists, rendering Apple hypocrites on that count, goal scored. Nothing about that has changed, i.e. the goalposts have not moved. I've simply added a second reason that further reveals hypocritical actions on Apple's part, that being only allowing Google as the default for Siri. Second, separate goal also scored.
 
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Underrated comment. iPhone entered the market during the time when Nokia and others (but mainly Nokia) sat at the throne, undisturbed.
Yep. People act like unseating Apple is impossible, yet they would have said the same about Nokia, Blackberry, etc.

Anything is possible. It won't be happening this year, maybe not in the next 5 years, but it'll happen eventually. Whether or not regulators force it to or not.
 
Apple privacy is about as good as the podcasts app. But at least they don’t brag about the podcasts app…
 
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Cory Doctorow is an idiot for claiming iWorks is what allowed Macs to proliferate in business. iWorks had almost zero impact on Apple’s success. But then again, he’s an “activist” which probably means he thinks companies are evil but somehow big gov’t is great.
 
What? I'm not sure if we are being gaslighted or not. It seems to some Apples' definition of privacy is a rolling definition.

"The death of privacy will be bureaucrats regulating privacy."

Was this an Apple statement or yours? The bureaucrats you mentioned regulating privacy came out with the GDPR. Setting policies how personal data can be handled. Tim Cook and Apple not only endorsed it but also said that the way he sees it should be law all over the world.

I don't know if if for Apple is a rolling definition. The non copy righted definition is not: the quality or state of you or your things not being observed by others.
 
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"The death of privacy will be bureaucrats regulating privacy."

Was this an Apple statement or yours? The bureaucrats you mentioned regulating privacy came out with the GDPR. Setting policies how personal data can be handled. Tim Cook and Apple not only endorsed it but also said that the way he sees it should be law all over the world.

I don't know if if for Apple is a rolling definition. The non copy righted definition is not: the quality or state of you or your things not being observed by others.
Privacy is many things to many people. It is my belief that apple takes steps, as much as possible, to protect one’s personal information and not scatter it around the web. That’s my definition. Others believe that because apple tracks across their services, they are not respecting one’s privacy.

And then there is the government who has no problem spying on citizens. Form your conclusion.
 
And macOS has been a minority market player for decades. Windows, meanwhile, as the dominant player, objectively has the most and worst exploits in the real world. People live with it, but it absolutely results in real security risks and monetary losses for people that could be eliminated with a more locked down approach.

That's what Apple is selling: more protection from risk for one of the most popular smartphone OSes out there. Just get Android (a great platform) if you're wanting openness. Apple made iOS great by making it secure. That's their prerogative to develop the OS how they want.
Whatever makes you happy. It need not be the truth.




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Funny I can choose between about 10 trash vendors and about 8 Natural Gas companies.
What’s your option on electricity, water, ISP? How many wireless carriers (actual, not MVNOs) that you can choose from? Do tell. Some markets simply don’t have room for unlimited players. Besides, there were more smartphone platforms in the past. The “duopoly” now is actually the result of competition. When you have a competition, there will be winners and losers. That’s called competition.
 
Get rid of all of the store brands and warehouse clubs while you are at it. Store brands are not only almost always "preferenced" (unless, of course, someone pays enough for dominant shelf space) but they also almost always cost less for an almost identical item as there are fewer middlemen adding their margin before the point of sale. Why can BJ's members not use their card to shop at Costco without getting a separate membership? Where are the local goods tables and popup stores that can just make use of whatever space they want without paying a single cent for it? While we are at it, why does the Brooklyn Brewery not have various other beers, such as Guinness, on tap in their taproom or sell Budweiser coozies? Why can the Christian book store in the strip mall choose to not carry Hustler on its shelves? Why are they maintaining a "walled garden" of content - especially considering how well they say their original "walled garden" worked out? Why can I not be buried in a Jewish cemetery despite being clearly non-Jewish (I am a guy, do the math)?

Less facetiously, what if the regulators get away with targeting Apple and Google? This is the question that gets asked far less than it should when this topic comes up. With Palm, Blackberry, and Windows all out of the game because they could not compete - even with all their various and substantial resources - where do you think the "competition" will come from? You think Purism is going to come out of nowhere with their Linux-based phone (that has been out for a while) and become a substantial player? OK, maybe that's extreme. What about Epic? They can have their own game store. The 40% stake TenCent has in them cannot realistically be called any more serious a threat than concerns that TikTok was going to access and siphon off user data to China and/or who knows where. Oh, wait: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...tok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access and https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/tik...re-than-any-other-social-media-app-study.html. And that is just another extreme, albeit vastly more likely, alternative. I am sure there are tons of others that readers on this forum can easily fill in on their own.
 
What’s your option on electricity, water, ISP? How many wireless carriers (actual, not MVNOs) that you can choose from? Do tell. Some markets simply don’t have room for unlimited players. Besides, there were more smartphone platforms in the past. The “duopoly” now is actually the result of competition. When you have a competition, there will be winners and losers. That’s called competition.
Nah, they want to chant "let the market decide" and "survival of the fittest" and then complain that the Neanderthal and the dodo went extinct.
 
When Walmart moves in, they decimate local businesses. They drove American jobs to China, but they also 'golden shower' DC with copious amounts of cash and I guess that cash buys them coverage. Too big to jail, or too well covered to jail. Hmm...
American politicians love traditional big businesses as they tend to have tight lobbyist with the politicians themselves. Tech industry is relatively new, and not usually have the best interest of politicians. Add on the need for money from Covid, it’s no brained that politicians are targeting the juicy money-making tech companies.
 
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