bungie rebooting Marathon

[rampancy]

I played though the early part of Apotheosis X and although nostalgic, I’m sad to say it too dated for my tastes. So a reboot of Marathon, I’d immediately be thinking Halo which the series overall was excellent, yet I wonder how they will distinguish it from Halo which I’ve always considered to be the defacto Marathon sequel. Possibly go back to the original story and environmental touches. 🤔

Fair enough - I mean Aleph One is much like GZDOOM in that despite the codebase improvements and graphical enhancements, it still very much is the old engine tech underneath. If you're accustomed to the look and feel of modern engines like Unreal Engine and Unity, it can be challenging to go to a game based off of Marathon.

It gets better as you progress further The Maps start getting crazy big and the graphics and colors keep it all interesting.

Oh yes, absolutely. One you get down to the surface of Fenris the game play maps get incredibly huge, with a level of architectural detail that I haven't seen in a long time. The color palette does lean towards orange and brown for most of the game, but for later levels there's enough variety to keep things interesting.

 

[rampancy]

I've installed both AlephOne and Apotheosis X and have it running. This is really Marathon and as primitive graphically as the original so far, but I just started it. I suppose this is as far as the Aleph One Engine can go.

Aleph One actually introduced a lot of modernizations and improvements including OpenGL rendering as well as improved audio and netcode, as well as support for advanced scripting allowing for features like precipitation – so it's really more than just a straight-up port of the original engine from 1994 to modern computers. For a scenario that really pushes the engine to the limits of what it can do, Marathon Istoria introduced PiD-style NPC interaction and RPG elements into the game.

 

[MacBH928]

Sony bought Bungie? wasn't bungie owned by Microsoft? Or did Microsoft just buy Halo?

 

[salamanderjuice]

Sony bought Bungie? wasn't bungie owned by Microsoft? Or did Microsoft just buy Halo?

Microsoft bought Bungie, set them free after Halo 3 (but kept the Halo IP), they worked with Activision on Destiny 1&2 then Sony bought them up probably because MS bought Bethesda.

 

[Huntn]

Listed as coming soon:

Marathon on Steam

Scavenge the lost colony of Tau Ceti IV in Bungie’s team-based extraction shooter. Choose your Runner, cybernetic mercenaries with unique abilities, as you battle rival teams & security forces for weapons & upgrades. Fill your vault, take on high-stakes challenges, & unravel the colony’s mysteries.

store.steampowered.com

 

[MacBH928]

is marathon action FPS or puzzle fps like Metroid on NGC and System Shock

 

[maflynn]

Bungie is serious panic mode, they were accused and admitted to stealing an artists work to put into their marathon game. The alpha was recently unveiled of that game, when the artist noticed her artwork in the game.

This isn't the first time they got caught steeling other people's work to put it into their games - kind of scummy actions if you as me.

I don't see how they can get ahead of this, but these companies will pay $$ to the victims and wait for the story to die down

https://twitter.com/x/status/1923067988871147605

 

[maflynn]

looks a bit worse with Bungie

New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans

Morale is in “free-fall” across all departments, and “the vibes have never been worse.” Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford.

There are not even hints or jokes about a delay from the September release date internally. With that said, it is entirely possible, if not likely, those conversations are happening privately between higher-up Sony and Bungie leadership. It’s unclear what the plan is to launch the game in a “now actively hostile environment” just a few months from now, or how to turn that around.

The article mentions reworked campaigns, ceasing the marketing, changing the roadmap, these are things you don't want to hear from a game that is supposed to launch this September. This also doesn't include the deep dive into the game's assets to make sure there's no other stolen art being used.

I could be wrong but Sony bought Bungie a few years ago for their live service experience as sony wanted to go all in with live service games as that was the fad. That failed and Destiny 2 isn't doing well and I believe Sony gutted the studio with layoffs. The live service experiment at Sony never really got off the ground thanks to the complete implosion of Concord.

 

[droplink]

Good. Let it fall.
"Bungie" is not Bungie of old and "Marathon" is not marathon of old. So let it disappear and be a warning to other studios.

 

[maflynn]

Good. Let it fall.

I wouldn't go that far, for a few reasons, one of which is that if it fails, those working there, will likely be laid off. I hate to see anyone hit the streets, especially in this economy. They have families and bills to pay for. This isn't the developer's and the other worker's faults. Not sure who decided to steal the artwork, whether its was an artist working or some executive. They should face the repercussions. Given that this is a pattern within Bungie, something has to change.

"Bungie" is not Bungie of old

No, It all started going downhill when Microsoft bought them. We all blamed MS for the degradation in quality and dysfunction, but maybe it wasn't completely MS' fault. When they finally were spun off from MS, we thought things would improve but they didn't. Sony bought them for the live service prowess but that blew up in their face as the market had shifted away from live service games

 

[Huntn]

looks a bit worse with Bungie

New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans

The article mentions reworked campaigns, ceasing the marketing, changing the roadmap, these are things you don't want to hear from a game that is supposed to launch this September. This also doesn't include the deep dive into the game's assets to make sure there's no other stolen art being used.

I could be wrong but Sony bought Bungie a few years ago for their live service experience as sony wanted to go all in with live service games as that was the fad. That failed and Destiny 2 isn't doing well and I believe Sony gutted the studio with layoffs. The live service experiment at Sony never really got off the ground thanks to the complete implosion of Concord.

I did not watch the video, but your post surely puts the game into question. So if it has problems I can’t imagine releasing it would be good as is, and if the decision it needs to be reworked, then the vibe I got from your post is it may never be released, and or maybe a closed studio 🤔… just some speculative feelings. If the game is worthy, I’d think reworking it might be best if it’s currently troubled, if there’s $$$ to do that, otherwise possibly a preordained prophecy of just something bad.

 

[rampancy]

On the upside, all of this attention has introduced a whole new swath of people to play and enjoy the classic trilogy. It's always lovely seeing people in the unofficial Marathon discord posting about Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap or the joys of wielding dual WSTE-Ms.

 

[Queen6]

Marathon in name only. Given the success of Doom you'd think Bungie would have considered the same. Just another online extraction shooter now wrapped in controversy of stolen assets and paid for 🤔 Don't see it working, the pushback from the players should be a strong enough signal, but they never seem to learn...

Bungie isn't very careful they will have at best a mediocre game, at worse a flop and after Concord I expect Sony has little tolerance for either.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

has introduced a whole new swath of people to play and enjoy the classic trilogy.

That swath looks mighty tiny. I was shocked to see how few people are playing the game, though as you mentioned, it has enjoyed a bump since this news broke. Only about 5 people are playing the game on steam, prior to last month, I know steam isn't the only place to get the game, but its generally our best way to measure a game's usage.

 

[droplink]

I wouldn't go that far, for a few reasons, one of which is that if it fails, those working there, will likely be laid off. I hate to see anyone hit the streets, especially in this economy. They have families and bills to pay for. This isn't the developer's and the other worker's faults. Not sure who decided to steal the artwork, whether its was an artist working or some executive. They should face the repercussions. Given that this is a pattern within Bungie, something has to change.


No, It all started going downhill when Microsoft bought them. We all blamed MS for the degradation in quality and dysfunction, but maybe it wasn't completely MS' fault. When they finally were spun off from MS, we thought things would improve but they didn't. Sony bought them for the live service prowess but that blew up in their face as the market had shifted away from live service games

It's not that I distinctly want anyone to be unemployed and on "the streets" as it were but I have a hard time finding sympathies in this case.
Some artist decided to steal work and some manager decided that that was OK. (or did not have control of his/her employees)
The game "stole" the Marathon name to cover for the fact that the entire project is "yet another online service shooter" which aught to give the higher managers pause to evaluate if there is a market for it or not.
As it just looks like a run-of-the-mill shooter with no redeeming qualities but the name they aught to have stopped the project and not waste anyone's time and money.

It's just another bloated project that was allowed to keep going because everyone thought there would be no consequence.
ie; w will launch it, it will make "some sales" and we can keep on going. Like yet another Ubisoft game.
Concord showed that cannot happen anymore.

 

[Queen6]

It's not that I distinctly want anyone to be unemployed and on "the streets" as it were but I have a hard time finding sympathies in this case.
Some artist decided to steal work and some manager decided that that was OK. (or did not have control of his/her employees)
The game "stole" the Marathon name to cover for the fact that the entire project is "yet another online service shooter" which aught to give the higher managers pause to evaluate if there is a market for it or not.
As it just looks like a run-of-the-mill shooter with no redeeming qualities but the name they aught to have stopped the project and not waste anyone's time and money.

It's just another bloated project that was allowed to keep going because everyone thought there would be no consequence.
ie; w will launch it, it will make "some sales" and we can keep on going. Like yet another Ubisoft game.
Concord showed that cannot happen anymore.

AAA is completely bloated, with far too much waste and who pays? Worse AAA is completely disconnected from the players hence disaster's like Concord and many others. Broken at launch, DLC's required to see the full game, predatory monetisation practises and AAA wants to raise prices 🤣

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 was developed by less than 100 devs with a core team of just 30 and look look just how well that's been received. Why? because it's a straight up game for the players to enjoy, not some soulless corporate copy & paste, excel spreadsheet, design by committee, cash grab rubbish.

I can easily sit on my back catalogue and support AA and indie devs and never touch AAA again outside a very specific few.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Worse AAA is completely disconnected from the players

I think there may be a day of reckoning, part of me, the cynic in me says it won't but you never knowmay.

This is blowing up regarding Borderlands 4 where the CEO is basically acknowledging the game will be 80 dollars and making a tone deaf comment of "If you’re a real fan, you’ll find a way to make it happen"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922454876803551555

That quote has gone viral, and publications, and YTers who report on games are running with it. Its a horrible look for the developer, but it will die down.

I haven't played Borderlands, and so I don't care about that franchise, but I do care about games costing 80 dollars. Maybe I'm in the minority but I'll absolutely not pay 80 dollars. The day of reckoning I mention is that when this game comes out for 80 dollars and sales are poor. See I think too many gamers will pay for something like this but we'll see.

 

[Queen6]

I dont think he's far off the mark...

Q-6

 

[MacBH928]

I think there may be a day of reckoning, part of me, the cynic in me says it won't but you never knowmay.

This is blowing up regarding Borderlands 4 where the CEO is basically acknowledging the game will be 80 dollars and making a tone deaf comment of "If you’re a real fan, you’ll find a way to make it happen"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922454876803551555

That quote has gone viral, and publications, and YTers who report on games are running with it. Its a horrible look for the developer, but it will die down.

I haven't played Borderlands, and so I don't care about that franchise, but I do care about games costing 80 dollars. Maybe I'm in the minority but I'll absolutely not pay 80 dollars. The day of reckoning I mention is that when this game comes out for 80 dollars and sales are poor. See I think too many gamers will pay for something like this but we'll see.

😂😂😂

that has to be one of the best replies. He is right though:

1- its not his call

2-Simple video games used to cost $80 ($180 inflation rate) , now for $80 ($30 90s money) you got a whole 3D world. Makes sense. games got 50% cheaper!

rough reply but realistic response

 

[salamanderjuice]

😂😂😂

that has to be one of the best replies. He is right though:

1- its not his call

2-Simple video games used to cost $80 ($180 inflation rate) , now for $80 ($30 90s money) you got a whole 3D world. Makes sense. games got 50% cheaper!

rough reply but realistic response

Yeah but for $80 back then you got a physical cart with actual ROM chips on there that contained the entire game. You got a nice plastic clamshell, a manual (145 pages just English for starflight!, partially in color too). Those things cost a lot more than a digital download or a Blu-ray in a flimsy recycle-me Blu-ray case.

There is also much more volume these days. Selling 5 million at $60 is a lot better than 100,000 at $80.

 

[maflynn]

There is also much more volume these days. Selling 5 million at $60 is a lot better than 100,000 at $80.

Also consider the quality, back then you generally had some annoying bugs but overall it was playable. That's simply not the case with far too many of these premium games. We can throw out Fallout 76, cyberpunk, Cities Skylines 2.

Back to Marathon, they were offering the game in the 50 dollar range, but I heard some rumors (prior to this blowing up) that the price of the game was inching up, not sure how or why.

I think people are generally tired of shooter/extraction games and the market is already saturated I'll not be surprised to see this game delayed. Any other publisher, it would be no surprise to see the game shelved but for Bungie, they don't have anything else to rely on - I think Destiny 2 is not faring well at all

 

[Queen6]

Looks like Sony is pulling all marketing for Marathon, likely tied to the stolen assets/style and the poor reception of the Alpha. If Bungie/Sony want to course correct will a lot of time & money.

All Bungie needed to do was release a solid single player in the same vein as the original trio. Then expand into a multiplayer aspect at a later point. You'd think that would make sense, especially with the strong AI & horror aspect. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Marathon is cancelled as the game & studio are becoming problematic and Sony likely not best pleased.

Q-6

 

[MacBH928]

Yeah but for $80 back then you got a physical cart with actual ROM chips on there that contained the entire game. You got a nice plastic clamshell, a manual (145 pages just English for starflight!, partially in color too). Those things cost a lot more than a digital download or a Blu-ray in a flimsy recycle-me Blu-ray case.

There is also much more volume these days. Selling 5 million at $60 is a lot better than 100,000 at $80.

I'll give you the physical ownership part but you have to put into consideration development costs. current Triple A titles cost $60M and reaching $400M . So you need 1 million copies sold just to break even. you won't see 5 million except with super popular titles. How much was Starlight budget?

I think people are generally tired of shooter/extraction games and the market is already saturated I'll not be surprised to see this game delayed. Any other publisher, it would be no surprise to see the game shelved but for Bungie, they don't have anything else to rely on - I think Destiny 2 is not faring well at all

All Bungie needed to do was release a solid single player in the same vein as the original trio. Then expand into a multiplayer aspect at a later point. You'd think that would make sense, especially with the strong AI & horror aspect. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Marathon is cancelled as the game & studio are becoming problematic and Sony likely not best pleased.

I am FPS fan from the 90s but currently i don't care about FPS offering. Every corporate wants the money that Call of Duty made and hence we have over supply of games that all look and feel the same. Whenever i see a new FPS its just "some gun on the screen shooting enemies" nothing interesting , no soul.

I saw some indie ones that seem more interesting than the Triple A ones.

 

[Queen6]

I am FPS fan from the 90s but currently i don't care about FPS offering. Every corporate wants the money that Call of Duty made and hence we have over supply of games that all look and feel the same. Whenever i see a new FPS its just "some gun on the screen shooting enemies" nothing interesting , no soul.

I saw some indie ones that seem more interesting than the Triple A ones.

At this point Bungie has to do something as Marathon in it's current form is effectively DOA. Should it fail like Concord Bungie will be shuttered by Sony not solely due to cost. Sony is dimply not going tolerate such failures going forward that negatively impact it's image...

Fans have not responded positively, the plagiarism is a very big issue that Bungie is not in a position to brush aside. So IMO Bungie has no other option other than to pivot or flounder. Should Marathon release this year without Sony support, well the writings is on the wall.

The OG trilogy had it's own unique style & feel and not just a Doom clone. Marathon was a darker story set in multiple locations with the player dealing with not solely enemy hordes but also AI's with varying levels of trust and or intention to help or hinder the player.

A lot on the table Bungie could have taken from and came up with again a unique campaign with a live service aspect. Extraction Shooters are notoriously difficult to manage & balance with limited appeal to new audiences, let alone retention. Bungie and too some extents Sony has painted themselves into a corner, and let's be straight Sony is not going to take the fall.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

All Bungie needed to do was release a solid single player in the same vein as the original trio

Yep, and instead they tried to roll out some sort of 3v3 extraction shooter, all the while the developers were pushing for some sort of PVE.

I would have paid money for a marathon game in the same vein as the original, I'm not going to on this.

At this point Bungie has to do something as Marathon in it's current form is effectively DOA. Should it fail like Concord Bungie will be shuttered by Sony not solely due to cost.

Sony has already gutted Bungie, taking talent, laying people off. I believe this was the only thing they were working on - this and keep Destiny 2 running. If Marathon is killed, Bungie will be too