Butterfly Keyboard is better than new MacBook Pro

[TheRealAlex]

So I've seen a lot of videos on the new one and with the 2019 MacBook Pro they fixed all the issues as. one has never gone wrong, and the flatness is so much nicer the magic keyboard is a lot taller and doesn't look sleek im sure it will type well but the latest butterfly keyboard has been great and I think it looks more modern the key travel is fine, the new one looks more like the old MacBooks with thicker keys

100% agreed, the ticker more raised wobble keys of old and current 16” MacBook Pro are an aesthetic and technical and feel step backwards. Done for the sake of reliability and a vocal minority of owners who are amplified due to social media. Yet another reason the 16” MBP is a disaster If not a down right scam.

worse keyboard IMO
a negligible display size increase
no WiFi 6 (worst omission of all)
old outdated CPU architecture 9th Gen which is still Specrete and Meltdown vulnerable
an old 8-bit 60Hz IPS Display (when Pro displays are using 10-bit IPS displays)

Apple hopes everyone will focus on its being 16” size and not on that they are buying arguably a 2 year old laptop.

 

[jerryk]

So I've seen a lot of videos on the new one and with the 2019 MacBook Pro they fixed all the issues as. one has never gone wrong, and the flatness is so much nicer the magic keyboard is a lot taller and doesn't look sleek im sure it will type well but the latest butterfly keyboard has been great and I think it looks more modern the key travel is fine, the new one looks more like the old MacBooks with thicker keys

Honestly unless you have both and try them out side by side I don't see how anyone can say which one is better.

The new keyboard uses a scissors mechanism, but is not the keyboard from 2015 and earlier retina MacBooks. It supposedly uses glass fibers to have a better feel.

I will wait until I get my new one in a couple of weeks and compare it to my 2018 15" to decide.
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Yeah but this new keyboard is repairable

How so? You can remove the keys and blow things out. But can you go any further. The keyboard is likely still riveted to top case and the Field Replacable Unit (FRU) is still likely the top case (Aluminum case where hands rest, trackpad, keyboard, and batteries.)

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

100% agreed, the ticker more raised wobble keys of old and current 16” MacBook Pro are an aesthetic and technical and feel step backwards. Done for the sake of reliability and a vocal minority of owners who are amplified due to social media. Yet another reason the 16” MBP is a disaster If not a down right scam.

worse keyboard IMO
a negligible display size increase
no WiFi 6 (worst omission of all)
old outdated CPU architecture 9th Gen which is still Specrete and Meltdown vulnerable
an old 8-bit 60Hz IPS Display (when Pro displays are using 10-bit IPS displays)

Apple hopes everyone will focus on its being 16” size and not on that they are buying arguably a 2 year old laptop.

Really, do you honestly think those items make it a disaster!? So basically, no or highly compromised/reduced sales as compared to the previous model, right. Because disaster!

Or is it more just a turn off to your particular bundle of wants?

I'm willing to bet a metaphorical dollar you're wrong and they will sell boatloads, and more than the previous version.

 

[0906742]

I find it hard to believe scissor mechanism makes much difference compared to butterfly. It is simply "support" mechanics for the key to allow you to press it also on any corner with key not wobbling instead of just hitting it in the middle. What is the difference in that is basically scissors just needs more height to work than butterfly (which is just kind of a split scissor mechanism), just not really much improvement in my opinion as 1mm key travel is really little for the scissor mechanism.

Also that 16" screen has borders, just very slightly smaller than before (is it more that 1-2 mm per side)?
It would be much bigger improvement if they managed to put 16" in the same size chassis as the 15" was (but that's not really possible as LCD-panels have some borders always)...
So hopefully 13" does not get the same treatment. There are still many vendors making both 13" and 14" notebooks even they often advertise their 14" the same footprint as 13"... I have got Zenbook 14" that makes the same claim and it is huge in size when I put it side by side with my MBP 13".

 

[AustinIllini]

I did an in depth comparison of the MacBook Pro vs the butterfly. Hopefully everyone gets something useful out of this.

MacBook Pro 16"	Butterfly Keyboard
16" Display	Is a keyboard
up to i9 Processor	No processor (it's a keyboard)
up to 64 GB memory	No memory (it's a keyboard)
Up to 8 TB storage	No storage (it's a keyboard)
Up to 11 hours of battery life	No battery (it's a keyboard)
TouchID	TouchID but no OS so not useful
1mm travel keyboard	.5mm travel keyboard

 

[Marzel]

100% agreed, the ticker more raised wobble keys of old and current 16” MacBook Pro are an aesthetic and technical and feel step backwards. Done for the sake of reliability and a vocal minority of owners who are amplified due to social media. Yet another reason the 16” MBP is a disaster If not a down right scam.

worse keyboard IMO
a negligible display size increase
no WiFi 6 (worst omission of all)
old outdated CPU architecture 9th Gen which is still Specrete and Meltdown vulnerable
an old 8-bit 60Hz IPS Display (when Pro displays are using 10-bit IPS displays)

Apple hopes everyone will focus on its being 16” size and not on that they are buying arguably a 2 year old laptop.

What are you even talking about? You must be trolling or sth. Apple wouldn't have gone through 3 iterations of the butterfly keyboard and 2 complete redesigns for a "vocal minority". The keyboard was trash and I'm sure Apple received tons of complains about it at their Apple Stores. Also the new keyboard isn't the same as the wireless magic keyboard even though they share some technological similarities. Apparently, Apple acknowledges the "wobbliness" of the scissor mechanism and that's why it has made adjustments.

Everything else you mention is technically impossible. Apple provides the latest and best 45W Intel CPUs available and those CPUs don't support WiFi 6 (so it's not an omission because there was never a choice).

 

[Nacho98]

Always love the butthurt when a new product is released, especially one that more or less exceeds everyone's expectations substantially.

OP, who can almost never find the period key in any post, is simply butthurt that he has a $4000+ computer that is 6 months old that has a resale of $2,000. Of course the resale sucks on any machine that starts climbing to $4k and beyond, nobody buying used is going to spend $3500 on a used computer. People buying used are as cheap as they get, so don't take it out on Apple when they release a new machine that we all knew was coming and it comes in way better than expected, and you are dealing with poor resale on a machine that we all KNEW would get its keyboard finally fixed in the very near future.

 

[ascender]

I’ve been quite a fan of the butterfly keyboard, but having used the 16” for the afternoon, I’m so glad they’ve made the switch.

I will say it feels more like the 2015 keyboard at first use, but the keys don’t feel as mushy/unstable - presumably because of the reduced key travel compared to that model. It’s still a bit strange though to be using a new MBP but with a keyboard which feels so different to the butterfly one.

 

[thadoggfather]

I just played with the 16” MBP at store for a bit

My impressions are I like the key travel, I like the feeling overall it’s fine, it does feel like an old school style Mac laptop keyboard to me


...but I genuinely wish they just addressed the issue with butterfly keyboards longevity wise , and doubled height as best of both worlds. I kinda miss the crispness and sturdiness of butterfly playing with these keyboards

They feel like a little more flimsy

 

[jerryk]

I’ve been quite a fan of the butterfly keyboard, but having used the 16” for the afternoon, I’m so glad they’ve made the switch.

I will say it feels more like the 2015 keyboard at first use, but the keys don’t feel as mushy/unstable - presumably because of the reduced key travel compared to that model. It’s still a bit strange though to be using a new MBP but with a keyboard which feels so different to the butterfly one.

Glad to hear this. While I thought the my 2015 15" keyboard was OK, it was not great.

 

[Wando64]

I find it hard to believe scissor mechanism makes much difference compared to butterfly. It is simply "support" mechanics for the key to allow you to press it also on any corner with key not wobbling instead of just hitting it in the middle. What is the difference in that is basically scissors just needs more height to work than butterfly (which is just kind of a split scissor mechanism), just not really much improvement in my opinion as 1mm key travel is really little for the scissor mechanism.

Yep, this is exactly the reason why Apple has tried to polish a turd for 4 years before realising that they were only spreading it around.

All those that prefer the Butterfly keyboard, long might yours last because if it fails, like many others have done, it is going to cost you a pack to replace (can’t be repaired, sorry).
Or you can do like the guy I saw at the airport the other day, carrying a magic keyboard around to use with his MBP.

 

[Mainsail]

Yep, this is exactly the reason why Apple has tried to polish a turd for 4 years before realising that they were only spreading it around.

All those that prefer the Butterfly keyboard, long might yours last because if it fails, like many others have done, it is going to cost you a pack to replace (can’t be repaired, sorry).
Or you can do like the guy I saw at the airport the other day, carrying a magic keyboard around to use with his MBP.

If it happens, the keyboard will be replaced for free within the 4 year warranty.

 

[Ploki]

I love this thread

 

[Wando64]

If it happens, the keyboard will be replaced for free within the 4 year warranty.

Well... indeed, and that’s why they pulled the plug on this.
Much, much cheaper to build a reliable scissor keyboard and revert to the standard pre-butterfly 1 year warranty.

 

[Ploki]

OP, who can almost never find the period key in any post, is simply butthurt that he has a $4000+ computer that is 6 months old that has a resale of $2,000. Of course the resale sucks on any machine that starts climbing to $4k and beyond, nobody buying used is going to spend $3500 on a used computer. People buying used are as cheap as they get, so don't take it out on Apple when they release a new machine that we all knew was coming and it comes in way better than expected, and you are dealing with poor resale on a machine that we all KNEW would get its keyboard finally fixed in the very near future.

Frankly, I i had bought the 2019 15", I'd be pretty pissed rn.
First the 2018 560X to Vega20 ********, and now this that pretty much murdered resales values of 2018-2019 15"ers (and even 13")

 

[x-evil-x]

Frankly, I i had bought the 2019 15", I'd be pretty pissed rn.
First the 2018 560X to Vega20 ********, and now this that pretty much murdered resales values of 2018-2019 15"ers (and even 13")

why do you think it will hurt resale long term? There will be people that do prefer the butterfly keyboard over the magic style. I can see plenty of people preferring the 2019 keyboard over it over time. I don't think it will hurt resale value honestly. Im curious to see if it might even help it be in a few years. I like my 2019. The 2016 I had not so much but no issues at all with my 2019 and I also use a magic keyboard a lot with my external monitor.

 

[0906742]

If it happens, the keyboard will be replaced for free within the 4 year warranty.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think these machines last much longer than 4 years anyway but with butterfly keyboards you are warranted for the whole 4 years. I'm not talking about the keyboard only when saying 4 years usable life but the overall machine because there are many other parts that you may need to replace in that time, like the battery.

 

[Ryan P]

I actually like the feel of the butterfly keyboard, I have repetitive stress issues with hands, and find that the less travel my fingers have to do the less issues that I have.

That said, i have had keys stop working which is even worse (especially when it convinces you, you have forgotten your encrypted MacBook password). The magic keyboard is still the my 2nd favorite keyboard, so ok with the change.

 

[x-evil-x]

Yeah, exactly. I don't think these machines last much longer than 4 years anyway but with butterfly keyboards you are warranted for the whole 4 years. I'm not talking about the keyboard only when saying 4 years usable life but the overall machine because there are many other parts that you may need to replace in that time, like the battery.

Most normal people I know with computers have them last 10 years. Sure battery’s go bad but it turns into an always plugged in thing. I know plenty of people with computers from 2010-2012. These machines should last upwards of 10 if you don’t run into issues imo.

 

[0906742]

Most normal people I know with computers have them last 10 years. Sure battery’s go bad but it turns into an always plugged in thing. I know plenty of people with computers from 2010-2012. These machines should last upwards of 10 if you don’t run into issues imo.

Machines today are not what they were a decade ago from any manufacturer. I'm sure many will be disappointed if they have the same expectations of machine longevity today based on their 10 year old previous machine...
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I actually like the feel of the butterfly keyboard, I have repetitive stress issues with hands, and find that the less travel my fingers have to do the less issues that I have.

I also find short key travel very pleasing causing much less strain to fingers and joints. It just take time to get use to short key travel and to learn not to hit they keys with force, just slide your fingers on the keyboard and press lightly, not like old time typing machine. . But I hate the way butterfly keyboard is very noisy, especially this latest version in MBP 2019 2TB model I have.

I have Logitech Craft with 1.8 mm key travel on my desktop machine and it feels very stressful to type after gotten used to much shorter key travel. Standard old times very long key travel keyboards are absolute pain to type these days for me.

 

[Mainsail]

Well... indeed, and that’s why they pulled the plug on this.
Much, much cheaper to build a reliable scissor keyboard and revert to the standard pre-butterfly 1 year warranty.

Yeah, but I thought you said it’s going to cost the consumer a bunch to replace the keyboard because it can’t be repaired. But, now your acknowledging that Apple is absorbing the cost. Which is it?

 

[cullenl87]

This guy is judging the keyboard and he hasn't even typed with it yet? What a moron. I'm typing with the new keyboard on the 16" and I can say it's leagues better. I had a 2017 MBP for two years and the typing is so much better. Come on, how are you judging it without even using it? Are you serious??

 

[x-evil-x]

Machines today are not what they were a decade ago from any manufacturer. I'm sure many will be disappointed if they have the same expectations of machine longevity today based on their 10 year old previous machine...
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I also find short key travel very pleasing causing much less strain to fingers and joints. It just take time to get use to short key travel and to learn not to hit they keys with force, just slide your fingers on the keyboard and press lightly, not like old time typing machine. . But I hate the way butterfly keyboard is very noisy, especially this latest version in MBP 2019 2TB model I have.

I have Logitech Craft with 1.8 mm key travel on my desktop machine and it feels very stressful to type after gotten used to much shorter key travel. Standard old times very long key travel keyboards are absolute pain to type these days for me.

So all computers over the last 4 years will suddenly die soon? What’s the longest computer you’ve had to give you this reasoning? I wouldn’t be surprised if my 2019 is totally fine in 2025. At what year did computers just start going bad to only get 4 years out of them?

 

[Wando64]

Yeah, exactly. I don't think these machines last much longer than 4 years anyway but with butterfly keyboards you are warranted for the whole 4 years. I'm not talking about the keyboard only when saying 4 years usable life but the overall machine because there are many other parts that you may need to replace in that time, like the battery.

only the keyboard has a 4 years warranty.
Because it is prone to failures, according to Apple.
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Yeah, but I thought you said it’s going to cost the consumer a bunch to replace the keyboard because it can’t be repaired. But, now your acknowledging that Apple is absorbing the cost. Which is it?

what I am saying is that it is an unreliable design, prone to a higher than usual number of failures.
Can we agree on that?

to be honest I wasn’t even aware of the extended keyboard warranty.
While it means that all repairs are free for the customers, it is still a PITA having to send your MBP away for repairs when I never, ever, had a keyboard failing on me with any other computer. Never.
By the way, my 2015 MBP (with scissor keyboard) is 4 years old and I am planning on using it for years to come. 4 years warranty is not all that it might seem especially when you consider the second hand market.

 

[Mainsail]

only the keyboard has a 4 years warranty.
Because it is prone to failures, according to Apple.
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what I am saying is that it is an unreliable design, prone to a higher than usual number of failures.
Can we agree on that?

to be honest I wasn’t even aware of the extended keyboard warranty.
While it means that all repairs are free for the customers, it is still a PITA having to send your MBP away for repairs when I never, ever, had a keyboard failing on me with any other computer. Never.
By the way, my 2015 MBP (with scissor keyboard) is 4 years old and I am planning on using it for years to come. 4 years warranty is not all that it might seem especially when you consider the second hand market.

No, we can't agree that the 2019 KB is unreliable. We can agree that the older versions had problems, but it is apparent that the latest iteration of the KB has been much better. Of course, there will be some failures of any keyboard design, but I really see no evidence that the 2019 KB is experiencing excessive failures. Given the millions and millions of laptops sold by Apple, I don't see anything alarming. To the contrary, I am seeing more tech sites and reviewers acknowledging that the KB appears to be "fixed". To be clear, "fixed" is not the same as zero failures. Only that it is not experiencing an unusual or excessive number of failures.

Add the 4 year warranty on top of the improved reliability, and I think most people are safe buying a MacBook with the current version of the butterfly KB. Now, if you don't like the feel of the KB, that's another issue.

So, why did Apple move to the scissor switch for the new 16in MBP? Well, Schiller said this new MBP has been in development for a while. This was prior to release of the 2019 KB this summer. So, simultaneously with working on the new MBP, Apple was improving and refining the Butterfly KB. Apple took advantage of the larger form factor of the 16 in MBP to introduce a new KB that requires a thicker chassis. If the 2019 butterfly KB continues to perform well, Apple may stick with it for their slimmer laptops....at least until they do a new MBA model per the usual upgrade cycle (say 3+ years from now). TBD.