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Butterfly Keyboard is better than new MacBook Pro
- Thread starter dan9700
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i doubt it will be laws-of-physics breaking like some people predict.
Not for extended workloads at least
My 2008 MBP was $3K. It ran for ten years. $300/year. But the use of it was worth probably two orders of magnitude.
You see those tool boxes in the back of pickup trucks - presumably holding work tools. My MBPs are work tools and generate revenue. Sure, I could get cheaper tools but the cost - in terms of cost per year or even per day, along with using what I want to use, means that it's well worth it.
For the many pros that make a good living using their MBPs, the price is really not that bad.
I don't disagree, and I wasn't complaining about price. I don't mind paying higher prices for Apple products because I think they make the best equipment and I find MacOS far superior to Windows.
This OP is always giving bad takes on the forum, no offense as I respect opinions that differ to mine, but bro, yikes. There's a reason Apple backtracked and shipped a keyboard which'll work in the long-run. I prefer the butterfly keyboard too, but negating the butterfly's weaknesses is foolish.
Seriously? You've never heard of the stuck keys/repeating characters problem that has resulted in the keyboard repair program?
The pro-butterfly people really are out there.
MacBook Pro / Air Butterfly Keyboard Issues (Repeating, Stuck, Unresponsive)
Apple in 2015 and 2016 introduced updated keyboards for its MacBook and MacBook Pro, debuting a butterfly key mechanism with home switches beneath...
www.macrumors.com
Apple in 2015 and 2016 introduced updated keyboards for its MacBook and MacBook Pro, debuting new butterfly keys with home switches beneath each key that minimize thickness while also providing a satisfying press under the fingers.
Unfortunately, Apple's butterfly keyboards are highly controversial and have been called out as one of the company's worst design decisions due to their penchant for failure due to small particulates like crumbs or heat issues. All butterfly keyboards in MacBook Pro, MacBook, and MacBook Air models introduced since 2016 (and 2015 in the case of the MacBook) have butterfly keys that could be vulnerable to failure, though Apple says the issue has been addressed in new 2019 models.
Are you referring to the older butterfly keyboards that Apple no longer puts in their laptops, or the latest 2019 iteration? Because we all know that Apple had problems with the early iterations. There seems to be pretty strong consensus that the latest version is much more reliable.
Per recent article in iMore :
"Apple did fix the butterfly keyboard. Without the numbers in front of me (because there is no such thing), I haven't heard a single complaint about the third-generation butterfly keyboard's reliability and that's a stark difference from the previous two generations."
BTW - I disagree with iMore in one respect; all mass produced laptops are going to have some examples of keyboard failures. Apple makes millions and millions of MacBooks of various types. There are going to be some failures. With the early iterations, it sure seemed to be excessive. I just don't see nearly as many complaints with the 2019 version, which has been out for over 4 months. Of course, not zero. But, I would bet that someone is going to get a stuck key in the next few months on their 16in MBP and blast it onto MR. Presuming of course that there are millions of them in the wild.
The keys are removable in the 16. They are even interchangeable with the Magic Keyboard so you can have white keys if you want them. My guess is that it will be far easier to do keyboard repairs with this model than with previous models as I think that Apple learned an expensive lesson in serviceablity engineering. We will find out in a day or two as iFixit has their hands on one now.
I agree. Also, I think the scissor keyboard is going to be a much better design for the 16in MBP, with its thicker chassis. It might be that Apple is actually doing the right thing here. The scissor mechanism could be the best keyboard for the larger MBP, and the butterfly might be best for their slimmest MacBooks (i.e. MBA). I think they will continue to refine and improve both. Time will tell.
I'm really torn - I personally love the feeling of the butterfly keyboard. The tactile response, the large keycaps, and the pressure required for each keystroke. My typing speed is around 15wpm higher on the butterfly keyboard than the old unibody MBP keyboard. I seem to be a minority, but absolutely hate having to type on chunkier mechanical keyboards.
The elephant in the room is, of course, the failure rates. I've had a top case replacement on my 2016 so have first-hand experience of the inconvenience. In the end, the reputational damage was done and I think the reversion to scissors was inevitable.
It's a shame they couldn't solve the butterfly problem, as the 2016 MBP seemed like a real product of the future at the time. The thin case, USB-C ports, modern keyboard, attempt at innovating with the Touch Bar, massive trackpad, etc. In contrast, the new 16" seems almost like a product of the past - bigger, heavier, using an older design language.
I get that a lot of people wanted that. But I also think that this is how stagnation can occur - I don't buy into the whole idolisation of Jobs, but his focus groups quote seems especially relevant here: 'A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.'
(I'm fully aware that this will be controversial and many people will love their new 16" MBPs. I completely understand that. I just hope this doesn't mark the start of an era of regression for Apple's Macs, even if it comes with short-term gains. Someone has to take risks to innovate. I would understand if this was limited to a more consumer-focused line and the Pro machines used faster, tried and tested hardware, but even this seems unlikely: the super portable, futuristic retina MacBook was replaced by a MacBook Air which essentially trades on an old name without offering a whole lot new or different.)
The elephant in the room is, of course, the failure rates. I've had a top case replacement on my 2016 so have first-hand experience of the inconvenience. In the end, the reputational damage was done and I think the reversion to scissors was inevitable.
It's a shame they couldn't solve the butterfly problem, as the 2016 MBP seemed like a real product of the future at the time. The thin case, USB-C ports, modern keyboard, attempt at innovating with the Touch Bar, massive trackpad, etc. In contrast, the new 16" seems almost like a product of the past - bigger, heavier, using an older design language.
I get that a lot of people wanted that. But I also think that this is how stagnation can occur - I don't buy into the whole idolisation of Jobs, but his focus groups quote seems especially relevant here: 'A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.'
(I'm fully aware that this will be controversial and many people will love their new 16" MBPs. I completely understand that. I just hope this doesn't mark the start of an era of regression for Apple's Macs, even if it comes with short-term gains. Someone has to take risks to innovate. I would understand if this was limited to a more consumer-focused line and the Pro machines used faster, tried and tested hardware, but even this seems unlikely: the super portable, futuristic retina MacBook was replaced by a MacBook Air which essentially trades on an old name without offering a whole lot new or different.)
So is the MacBook Pro keyboard the current magic keyboard that was just crammed into it? Or at least does it feel the same?
No, but Apple sad they took the Magic Keyboard as an inspiration, a starting point for the design. The new keyboard feels similar to the Magic Keyboard but different. Its good to type on though
Why are you even here....at an Apple Mac forum.
”want a cookie”... lol good one..
because it's sleeker, has a more modern hitech feel, smaller foot print, and it doesn't clack if you graze it and feels more compact and refined. I use both right now - external Magic Keyboard on the Mini (which is almost identical but a fraction taller), and a butterfly 3rd gen on the 13". I like both. Rationally, i like Magic Keyboard better because it's a proven design and you can replace keycaps.
frankly for common non-power users i haven't seen many complaints about the butterfly.
I'd disagree on all counts. The new keyboard in the 16" is miles better than the butterfly keyboard. Its much quieter, is more accurate, and way more comfortable to type on. I don't care about having a smaller footprint if it sacrifices my ability to type comfortably.
And you haven't typed on the new one yet if you are comparing it to the regular magic keyboard. The one in the macbook pro is quieter and actually feels better than the standalone keyboard, which I also happen to like.
To each his own, but I don't know anyone who owns a Pro that likes the butterfly keyboard. They tolerate it but don't actually like typing on it.
Basically the same variant of the scissor mechanism as the Magic KB has (different from pre-2015 scissor keyboards) but modified slightly, as you can see over at iFixit (not that I agree with all of their sentiments, but I really enjoy the teardowns).
Phil Schiller also said they redesigned it based on the Magic Keyboard.
As to how it feels compared to the Magic KB, I've not compared them directly.
From personal usage I only have the 2016+2017 butterfly keyboards and pre-2015 scissor keyboard (Wireless KB and Unibody MBP) to compare with. When I tried the new 16-inch, it unpleasantly reminded me of the older scissor ones.
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Phil Schiller also said they redesigned it based on the Magic Keyboard.
As to how it feels compared to the Magic KB, I've not compared them directly.
From personal usage I only have the 2016+2017 butterfly keyboards and pre-2015 scissor keyboard (Wireless KB and Unibody MBP) to compare with. When I tried the new 16-inch, it unpleasantly reminded me of the older scissor ones.
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On this thread alone, you've already seen several people including me (and OP) prefer the butterfly keyboard (some vastly) so I don't know why you would claim we all don't exist..
I like typing on mine to be honest. It's a gentle and neat experience.
The only thing about the butterfly that irks me is reliability, else I really really like it. Typing back on the 2012 -2015 model feels aggro. But the Magic keyboard is better.
Also, how is it that different if you can literally swap keys between them and has IDENTICAL mechanism?!