Buy now rMBP? or wait for Haswell?

[Mr MM]

Hey Mr MM-I'm sure you've gathered that you know a lot more about this stuff than I do, so I'd like to ask you, what does today's news from intel mean? From what I've read the 15" will be getting the 5200 Iris, and the report said that it will be a 100% GPU increase. Is this super good news, a lot better than expected or am I reading it wrong? Please explain this news in laymans terms for me. Thanks

Im not sure I know more than you.

I dont think that the rmbp 15 will receive a 5200. Its simple to get that igpu you need to cut down 400mhz on the core clock

and the reports may be accurate, a while ago I used the toms hardware review on their expected increase in performance, which I think will land us on 1600-1800 in 3dmark 11, on par with the 640m

There are some problems with igpus is the memory speed and bandwidth, and the heat.

The idea behind putting the edram on the cpu package is to circunvant the memory speed and bandwidth, heat as you can see from that chart is still a concern as usual, 400mhz cut is going to be there. That translates that a mid range quad is going to behave worse than a mid range quad from ivy, this is something that will be difficult to swallow for the rmbp 15, on the 13 this will be a tremendous boost in performance, that is if we dont hear from 35w, which we dont have any news at all currently

 

[Freyqq]

Im not sure I know more than you.

I dont think that the rmbp 15 will receive a 5200. Its simple to get that igpu you need to cut down 400mhz on the core clock



and the reports may be accurate, a while ago I used the toms hardware review on their expected increase in performance, which I think will land us on 1600-1800 in 3dmark 11, on par with the 640m

There are some problems with igpus is the memory speed and bandwidth, and the heat.

The idea behind putting the edram on the cpu package is to circunvant the memory speed and bandwidth, heat as you can see from that chart is still a concern as usual, 400mhz cut is going to be there. That translates that a mid range quad is going to behave worse than a mid range quad from ivy, this is something that will be difficult to swallow for the rmbp 15, on the 13 this will be a tremendous boost in performance, that is if we dont hear from 35w, which we dont have any news at all currently

My guess is that haswell is a essentially a beta-test of the GT3e, and broadwell will have the GT4e or equivalent on a wider range of chips. I don't think apple will use it until broadwell, except maybe in a high-end mac mini.

 

[Mr MM]

My guess is that haswell is a essentially a beta-test of the GT3e, and broadwell will have the GT4e or equivalent on a wider range of chips. I don't think apple will use it until broadwell, except maybe in a high-end mac mini.

broadwell is when intel puts a new arch for their gpus

in all probability this is a test run and no matter what the results are it will likely be in broadwell, I hope with larger amounts of edram and DDR4 support, the last is essential

 

[Serban]

wait for has well, if they get rid of dedicated card and put hd5200 you will get a lighter macbook pro ,longer battery i think up to 9h, better cpu like 10-15%.

 

[Petulka]

Any info on 700M in macbooks?

 

[Zodiac.mj]

Any info on 700M in macbooks?

Seems like the only option, but you know Apple, they will go for the low-cost option and better profit margins

Mode details are here: http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/28/and-the-gpu-in-the-haswell-macbook-pro-is/ (but I don't have the subscription so I do now know the answer).

 

[Mr MM]

Any info on 700M in macbooks?

its exactly the same gpu, if its the 750m

 

[Zodiac.mj]

its exactly the same gpu, if its the 750m

Not completely the same, it's the next stepping with minor fixes and 1 major change - the GPU can overclock itself if needed, for example in games or other GPU-heavy workloads.

But they can also put latest AMD chips instead.

 

[Mr MM]

Not completely the same, it's the next stepping with minor fixes and 1 major change - the GPU can overclock itself if needed, for example in games or other GPU-heavy workloads.

But they can also put latest AMD chips instead.

they had that boost ability since kepler, so exactly the same, they now have a more refined boost ability.

still the same gpu with higher clocks, no fixes or anything major

 

[ka-spot]

so? buy now or wait?

 

[Atisha]

I would really like to buy the 2nd gen as soon as it comes out. I have a 1st gen rMBP I'd then sell should anyone be interested.

Best computer I've ever owned, a 10% CPU/GPU bump sounds great.

If I were you, just from what my own plans are, I would wait and maybe even (CAREFULLY) buy a used 1st gen rMBP when 2nd gen comes out. They seem to be selling for as low as $1600 now, I can imagine how low it would drop. As long as you find someone who doesn't eat peanut butter sandwiches while typing out blogs, drinks beer and chain smokes, craps it out with bumper stickers.

I have yet to see my full 16gb ram being used even with After Effects + Final Cut Pro rendering with WoW playing. My 15" is on a stand about 2-3' from my face and it's fine, I watch movies from it 10' away on my bed and prefer it to my old 19" monitor. However the real estate is lacking sometimes (not a real complaint, 15" makes it a perfect size) so 17-19" would be ideal on a desk grinding out work.

 

[Petulka]

its exactly the same gpu, if its the 750m

Not really, even few % bump is good + gives me better resell price and the feeling :d

 

[Jiaman]

I want to get a 15-inch rMBP (the ME665 model) too and I'm unsure whether I should wait or buy it now. Haswell will most likely be a lot better than the current IB, but does that mean Apple will most likely not bring them out anytime soon - as they want to squeeze every penny out of customers, so I'm wondering whether there'll be much point in waiting for a 'better' model. They've recently brought out the model itself, there's not much they could improve on without drastic changes (which I honestly doubt they'd do), so if you got it now, you probably wouldn't really miss out on much.

However, It's currently basically mid 2013 so we might as well wait the additional 1-2 months for them to release another model (but I doubt it'd be the 2nd gen). They're due a release so unless you're in a hurry and actually need it, rather than want, then you should get it.

At the moment, I'm closer to the decision of waiting as we're in mid 2013 and I'm not in a hurry to get the rMBP. Anyway, your thoughts?

 

[Serban]

yes you should wait like me. Apple is loosing sales because everyone is beginning to wait for the refresh so the sells of current mbp is slowing down. So the market is demanding apple i think in max mid august to be available to us to buy

 

[soldierblue]

Just my opinion, but if you're looking at 15 inch refurbs, hit it. The Iris doesn't matter too much, it's still going to get destroyed by discrete GPUs. On the Haswell front, we're looking at a solid 10% or 15%. Plus, we're probably only going to get a rebadged 650m in the form of a 750m (we're talking no more than a 7% or 8% boost due to clock speed changes) a refurb'd 15 at $1679 doesn't look bad at all, even up against a Haswell-based rMBP.

We're at that point where, as long as you're not paying full price, I don't see a problem with not waiting.

 

[bbishop93]

Just my opinion, but if you're looking at 15 inch refurbs, hit it. The Iris doesn't matter too much, it's still going to get destroyed by discrete GPUs. On the Haswell front, we're looking at a solid 10% or 15%. Plus, we're probably only going to get a rebadged 650m in the form of a 750m (we're talking no more than a 7% or 8% boost due to clock speed changes) a refurb'd 15 at $1679 doesn't look bad at all, even up against a Haswell-based rMBP.

We're at that point where, as long as you're not paying full price, I don't see a problem with not waiting.

The problem is that id rather finance it so I can only buy it new... And im hoping that the base model will be at 512gb so I can save some money on the upgrade. I would buy refurb but the model I want is just about 2200 so not much diff.

 

[soldierblue]

The problem is that id rather finance it so I can only buy it new... And im hoping that the base model will be at 512gb so I can save some money on the upgrade. I would buy refurb but the model I want is just about 2200 so not much diff.

That's tough. I highly, highly doubt they'd bump the baseline to 512. My assumption is that they'll be exactly the same with the exception of the CPU/GPU/chipset and possibly the wireless adapter.

 

[adjeff8]

That's tough. I highly, highly doubt they'd bump the baseline to 512. My assumption is that they'll be exactly the same with the exception of the CPU/GPU/chipset and possibly the wireless adapter.

I'm hoping for the same thing. 256 SSD on a $2,500 computer (After taxes) is offensive. Anyway, you can be sure that they will not be exactly the same. It is after all a 2nd generation release. Apple always holds features out of their first generation products.

 

[soldierblue]

I'm hoping for the same thing. 256 SSD on a $2,500 computer (After taxes) is offensive. Anyway, you can be sure that they will not be exactly the same. It is after all a 2nd generation release. Apple always holds features out of their first generation products.

Second generation? We're not looking at a redesign here, we're looking at a refresh. Apple has almost always done it this way, they revised the pre-unibody and the unibody MBPs for years without significant changes to the feature set. I mean, compare a unibody MacBook Pro from 2008 to one from 2012... how many feature set changes were there? Three? The addition of Thunderbolt, the addition of USB 3.0, and the move to an SDXC slot from an ExpressCard slot? All other changes were internal.

There is literally no reason to believe that this is anything but a CPU/GPU refresh. We're not getting 512 on the baseline, no way, not yet.

 

[Mr MM]

Second generation? We're not looking at a redesign here, we're looking at a refresh. Apple has almost always done it this way, they revised the pre-unibody and the unibody MBPs for years without significant changes to the feature set. I mean, compare a unibody MacBook Pro from 2008 to one from 2012... how many feature set changes were there? Three? The addition of Thunderbolt, the addition of USB 3.0, and the move to an SDXC slot from an ExpressCard slot? All other changes were internal.

There is literally no reason to believe that this is anything but a CPU/GPU refresh. We're not getting 512 on the baseline, no way, not yet.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2645

so nothing changed huh?

 

[adjeff8]

Second generation? We're not looking at a redesign here, we're looking at a refresh. Apple has almost always done it this way, they revised the pre-unibody and the unibody MBPs for years without significant changes to the feature set. I mean, compare a unibody MacBook Pro from 2008 to one from 2012... how many feature set changes were there? Three? The addition of Thunderbolt, the addition of USB 3.0, and the move to an SDXC slot from an ExpressCard slot? All other changes were internal.

There is literally no reason to believe that this is anything but a CPU/GPU refresh. We're not getting 512 on the baseline, no way, not yet.

I know there isn't a redesign. But technically it's a 2nd generation of this current design, which was a pretty major redesign and still has its quirks. I couldn't tell you what if anything will be changed or improved, but there will be something. The Wifi AC for example. Maybe they'll end this Samsung/LG quagmire one way or another. Maybe it will come with a Star Trek teleporter. Which I've been waiting for. Perhaps the camera will be tweaked, speaker given some bottom. Who knows, but we shall find out on June 10. I'm coming from a 2009 15" that is behaving very poorly, so this will be a huge improvement for me

 

[Serban]

What is the score for an 650M in 3dmark and the score for 640m?
750M =650M with the difference that the 750m will can automatically auto overclock?

 

[Mr MM]

What is the score for an 650M in 3dmark and the score for 640m?
750M =650M with the difference that the 750m will can automatically auto overclock?

3dmark11

650m - 2400

640m - 1900

750m - 3000 -> higher clocks and new turbo

 

[dusk007]

The posted scores for the 750M all end up in the 2700-2800 range.
650M is 2150/2250/2400 depending on the clocks.
900Mhz is 2400. A 750M starts out with not much more so it all comes down to cooling. The 650M also have a Turbo just not one that is allowed to exceed TDP.

The 750M is basically a 650M that can play 50W+ GPU if it feels like it. The default clocks are almost equal. 900 vs 967 and it is exactly the same chip.

 

[Mindtilt]

The posted scores for the 750M all end up in the 2700-2800 range.
650M is 2150/2250/2400 depending on the clocks.
900Mhz is 2400. A 750M starts out with not much more so it all comes down to cooling. The 650M also have a Turbo just not one that is allowed to exceed TDP.

The 750M is basically a 650M that can play 50W+ GPU if it feels like it. The default clocks are almost equal. 900 vs 967 and it is exactly the same chip.

You are right, 650 M and 750 M are the same GPU. The 650M at 900mhz is already faster than a 660M, i think same gpu at 967mhz + turbo boost can match a 670 M.