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Buyer Beware: Retina MBP Burn-In Extraordinaire

therealseebs said:
I see this on my iPad 3 all the time, and also on my big NEC. It's not really burn-in, but there is a VERY noticeable effect there. If I leave my iPad 3 in an app that has an easily-recognized pattern for a 10-15 minutes, then go to something with a smooth screen, I will see that "burn-in". It's totally normal, so far as I can tell; I got all excited when it happened to my NEC, then I started reading threads and found that basically all IPS displays have ... well, I want to call it phosphor memory, but obviously that's wrong. :)

Edit: And no, it's not a "polarizer defect". IPS displays do not work quite the same way other LCDs do, and this is normal for them.
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so it's IR then.. image retention... which is temp not perm... I would hope Lloyd would know the difference.
 
jcpb said:
It's also a well-known fact that the people most vocal about this sort of things are also the people who run into problems with something that they expected to work perfectly inside and out.
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That's right, who the hell do you think you are to expect a working product in exchange for your hard-earned money!


Tim, please refill this gentleman's Kool-aid.
 
I don't see burn in on a black screen, I see it on dark grays. Dark grays seem to be a weekpoint of the retina display. I have noticed some unevenness there that almost looks like a sort of sand texture, and sometimes what appears to be light banding in addition to the burn in that others have noted.

One other thing I noticed about the rMBP, and perhaps this is standard practice for MBP's, but the screen dimming timer was set to 3 minutes for both plugged in and unplugged on my rMBP right out of the box. IMO that is a suspiciously short time.
 
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i had this issue on my ipad 2.... it developed around the same time as 2 stuck pixels came up so mine was replaced 2 days ago.
 
ixodes said:
Then use a reasonable title. The title you chose is alarming.
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I'm with ixodes on this. The way you named your thread, it sounds like there is something wrong with your MBP. Clearly it's a problem with you. As anyone who has worked with IPS displays can attest, this effect is well-known and is to be expected when you are working with high quality equipment. If you didn't know about the "burn-in" effect before your purchase, then clearly you're not the type of high-end customer that Apple is aiming for.
 
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As long as Apple exchanges the defective laptop with the burn-in issue I don't see a good enough reason to raise my blood pressure.
 
yth said:
I'm with ixodes on this. The way you named your thread, it sounds like there is something wrong with your MBP. Clearly it's a problem with you. As anyone who has worked with IPS displays can attest, this effect is well-known and is to be expected when you are working with high quality equipment. If you didn't know about the "burn-in" effect before your purchase, then clearly you're not the type of high-end customer that Apple is aiming for.
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With all due respect to you, in my opinion, as an Apple target consumer, your explanation falls flat. And it seems a little condescending. As a high end customer, I actually do expect that my equipment will not suffer ill-effects such as burn-in, even if it is temporary. If the burn-in is apparent while I am using the product, it's a problem to me. Who cares if it disappears over time, if it's there while I am trying to use it, it has failed to meet my basic expectations. It does not strike me as high quality equipment, it strikes me as defective.

All of this is academic, of course, because I just bought a non-retina MacBook Pro. But after reading your comments I felt you were being a little unfair to the OP. If IPS displays are really well known for burn-in (I've never heard this), then perhaps this was not the best display for Apple's high end consumer notebook.
 
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Aodhan said:
With all due respect to you, in my opinion, as an Apple target consumer, your explanation falls flat. And it seems a little condescending. As a high end customer, I actually do expect that my equipment will not suffer ill-effects such as burn-in, even if it is temporary. If the burn-in is apparent while I am using the product, it's a problem to me. Who cares if it disappears over time, if it's there while I am trying to use it, it has failed to meet my basic expectations. I does not strike me as high quality equipment, it strikes me as defective.

All of this is academic, of course, because I just bought a non-retina MacBook Pro. But I had to throw in my opinion because your comments struck me as fan boyish and condescending. If IPS displays are really well known for burn-in (I've never heard this), then perhaps this was not the best display for Apple's high end consumer notebook.
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They don't make IPS displays without burn-in. Every professional user knows this. I bought 3 MBP retinas as soon as they came out. (My wife and i both updated our 2010 MBPs and my daughter is starting high school). In fact, my entire family is so used to the burn-in that we don't even notice it. You see the same effect on the iPad and iPhone so why aren't people complaining about that? Eventually Apple will release better models and you can buy those when they come out, but until then, this is the best technology available. My macbook pro makes me money, so although there is a high cost to being an early adopter, I find it to be an investment that pays itself off. Of course, if this is your first high-end laptop then I can see where you're coming from, but this is the latest and greatest technology. It's not perfect. For example, text scrolling doesn't work perfectly on every website. But if you waited for them to get it "perfect" you'd end up waiting forever, because the way we use technology is always changing too. I think that other members of the forum agree (e.g. ixodes, jcpb) because I've heard them say similar things.
 
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yth said:
They don't make IPS displays without burn-in. Every professional user knows this. I bought 3 MBP retinas as soon as they came out. (My wife and i both updated our 2010 MBPs and my daughter is starting high school). In fact, my entire family is so used to the burn-in that we don't even notice it. You see the same effect on the iPad and iPhone so why aren't people complaining about that? Eventually Apple will release better models and you can buy those when they come out, but until then, this is the best technology available. My macbook pro makes me money, so although there is a high cost to being an early adopter, I find it to be an investment that pays itself off. Of course, if this is your first high-end laptop then I can see where you're coming from, but this is the latest and greatest technology. It's not perfect. For example, text scrolling doesn't work perfectly on every website. But if you waited for them to get it "perfect" you'd end up waiting forever, because the way we use technology is always changing too. I think that other members of the forum agree (e.g. ixodes, jcpb) because I've heard them say similar things.
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It's unfortunate to see at the $3,000 price point. I can't verify that *all* IPS or even mobile IPS displays exhibit burn-in, so I can't know for certain that it's right or wrong. I can only say that it's unfortunate from my standpoint as a user that at the $3,000 price point it's not perfect. You're right about waiting for perfection, I needed a new computer and I pulled the trigger on a new technology. It's inherently risky. For the most part it is an excellent machine. I'm not so concerned with the slight burn-in, unfortunate though it is, as it does go away pretty quickly. I'm more disappointed with the GUI animations on the rMBP, they're just not up to the standard Apple sets in their other products.
 
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Okay, so what I'm gathering is that this is normal for IPS displays. The question is: like with plasma, can you do an anti-burn regiment for the first 100 hours or so to reduce this effect? I'm talking the scrolling gradient us savvy plasma users used.
 
I have been staring at a relatively cheap 24" IPS display for up to 12 hours a day for nearly 3 years and I have never once seen any hint of burn in or image persistence.

I think it's a little blasé to simply dismiss this issue as many of you are doing.
 
I can only conclude that most Apple users have very high expectations of Apple products.
"Oh no! Reception decreased when I hold the iPhone this way!"
"Oh no, there's a 5 min temporary burn-in on the Retina screen".

I contacted LaCie support when I found the Little Big Disk too loud, and screeching, like many other users. They replied pretty promptly, saying that it's within their operating specifications, after first replacing it with an even louder one. I have 2 other LaCie drives, and it's never this loud.

I don't know how Apple will respond if MORE people make a fuss out of it. However, I know that with AppleCare, they will ALWAYS take care of you, even if it's really only a small unnoticeable issue.
 
I'm still rocking a 23" cinema display from 2005. Image retention definitely happens to ips panels, but in spite of that, it's longevity has been fantastic overall, and I'd still take it over the shallow viewing angles of TN panels any day. Personal preference though. I guess it's up to each person to decide which is least objectionable to them; and remember apple still has non-retina displays available as an alternative.
 
Our 2007 iMac gets "screen burn" if we have it on all day long. Often it's only the dock and status bar that burns in.
The good news is that you can easily ignore it, and it vanishes naturally after a couple of hours. In fact, I haven't seen it occur for several months.
I wouldn't let this dissuade you from getting the rMBP.
 
I just left my RMBP on full brightness with Safari open to the Apple homepage (and a mid grey desktop background from the default Solid Color pack) for 15 minutes and there's no ghosting at all - even checked behind the dock icons... at least this isn't a widespread issue.

I don't even see this being a problem in real life - who leaves their Macbook on full brightness for extended periods of time with auto-dim disabled and doesn't change the picture at all? Not watching a movie, minimizing windows, scrolling text, etc.... I don't even have my display past 50% brightness 90% of the time. Plus this isn't even permanent damage, it clears itself over time...
 
sireShonBohn said:
It's unfortunate to see at the $3,000 price point. I can't verify that *all* IPS or even mobile IPS displays exhibit burn-in, so I can't know for certain that it's right or wrong. I can only say that it's unfortunate from my standpoint as a user that at the $3,000 price point it's not perfect. You're right about waiting for perfection, I needed a new computer and I pulled the trigger on a new technology. It's inherently risky. For the most part it is an excellent machine. I'm not so concerned with the slight burn-in, unfortunate though it is, as it does go away pretty quickly. I'm more disappointed with the GUI animations on the rMBP, they're just not up to the standard Apple sets in their other products.
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You act like just because you spent a few thousand dollars on a product, it should be perfect. Truth is, $3,000 is not a lot to spend on a high-end computer these days. Is this the first luxury item you've purchased? Every product has faults and defects that most high-end consumers have learned to deal with. If you spend $3,000 on a laptop and complain that its monitor isn't perfect or that text scrolling isn't 100% perfect, then clearly the MBP retina wasn't designed for you. It was designed for an entirely different class of users. A lot of forum users here (me, ixodes, jcpb, the list goes on) only buy the latest and greatest technology, and don't complain about text scrolling, or how facebook doesn't work, or how you can see "ghost" effects that are on every IPS in existence. If you're complaining, the MBP probably wasn't designed for you and I suggest you look at Dell and HP, which make very good, low quality laptops
 
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yth said:
You act like just because you spent a few thousand dollars on a product, it should be perfect. Truth is, $3,000 is not a lot to spend on a high-end computer these days. Is this the first luxury item you've purchased? Every product has faults and defects that most high-end consumers have learned to deal with. If you spend $3,000 on a laptop and complain that its monitor isn't perfect or that text scrolling isn't 100% perfect, then clearly the MBP retina wasn't designed for you. It was designed for an entirely different class of users. A lot of forum users here (me, ixodes, jcpb, the list goes on) only buy the latest and greatest technology, and don't complain about text scrolling, or how facebook doesn't work, or how you can see "ghost" effects that are on every IPS in existence. If you're complaining, the MBP probably wasn't designed for you and I suggest you look at Dell and HP, which make very good, low quality laptops
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Next time you feel the need to patronize me with an imbecilic rant, please think twice and just spare us. Thanks!
 
I dont care what it cost.. this is billed as the "retina" MBP. Damn screen should be perfect if anything. That being said I am not too worried about burn in.. I've had Plasma TV for a decade+..
 
yth said:
You act like just because you spent a few thousand dollars on a product, it should be perfect. Truth is, $3,000 is not a lot to spend on a high-end computer these days. Is this the first luxury item you've purchased? Every product has faults and defects that most high-end consumers have learned to deal with. If you spend $3,000 on a laptop and complain that its monitor isn't perfect or that text scrolling isn't 100% perfect, then clearly the MBP retina wasn't designed for you. It was designed for an entirely different class of users. A lot of forum users here (me, ixodes, jcpb, the list goes on) only buy the latest and greatest technology, and don't complain about text scrolling, or how facebook doesn't work, or how you can see "ghost" effects that are on every IPS in existence. If you're complaining, the MBP probably wasn't designed for you and I suggest you look at Dell and HP, which make very good, low quality laptops
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Leave me out of this.
 
My Response To Those Who Didn't Carefully Read The Post and Link...

1. I do not own an rMBP. The link leads to an article on a website operated by a digital imaging expert who writes about using Apple products for processing images.

2. The burn-in shown in the image accompanying the article occurred after twenty minutes, not hours.

3. I own IPS displays including a high-end NEC monitor. I have never seen burn-in on my displays.

4. As I have stated previously, my intent is to inform, not inflame fellow Mac users. I think that people considering dropping a significant amount of $$$ on a relatively new technology used in a revision A Mac should have as much information as possible before making the purchase. Ultimately, it's your money to spend, not mine.

Unfortunately, condescension and ad hominem is the norm from Apple fanboys who take issue with any criticism of the company or its products. There is a Cult of Apple where consumer products have been elevated to lifestyle fetishes and woe to anyone who dares question the Wisdom of Apple and the presumed superiority of its products.

I first placed my fingers on a Mac keyboard in 1984. I have always felt that Apple has developed an excellent operating system and that it has introduced a number of truly innovative products.

On the other hand, of all the Apple computers that I have owned only one that did not have hardware problems. (It's too early to pass judgment on my 13" MBP since I've owned it for less than a year.) As a result, Apple computers are the only consumer products I buy for which I think that an extended AppleCare warranty is not an option but a necessity and that its cost must be factored into the cost of a Mac.

David Pogue has an interesting column this week in The New York Times about the abuse that he endures when he writes something critical about a technology product. Why? Because people have become so invested in and identify so closely with their chosen product brands that any criticism of those brands is interpreted as a personal attack. The anonymous nature of the Internet allows people to express their opinions in ways that would not be tolerated if done face-to-face.

I realize that the Macrumors forum is one of Apple's Lion dens, full of people who seem to have nothing better to do than endlessly debate the minutiae of Apple's products ad nauseam. Reflecting on my experience with this thread I find myself wondering what these poor souls would be doing with their lives if they didn't have Apple to focus so much of their energy on. It's sad to see how thoroughly some people have bought into it and made it the central focus of their lives.

Bottom line: Apple products are just stuff. High-priced, prettily-designed and often useful stuff. But it's still just stuff that is supposed to meet a functional need in our lives. Elevating it to the level some people do is... well, pathetic is the only word that seems to fit the bill in describing it.
 
Xcelerate said:
This is a little bit odd. I don't doubt that the images are real, but it seems more like a defect than real burn-in.

LCDs are manufactured in such a way that there is a back light, color filters, and then a polarizer that acts like a window shutter. When the shutter is open, light comes through, and when it is closed, light cannot pass (well, any light that does pass through is what is referred to as the black level).

So unlike plasma technology, the only reason this burn-in would occur is if there is some sort of polarizer defect, which may be because of an electrical connection.

Just a thought. Someone who knows more about LCDs can perhaps provide more information.
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The liquid crystals can get stuck in a twisted or untwisted state which allows light though when it not meant to and looks similar to phosphor burn in on a CRT tv but is actually called image persistence.
 
LCD's (and LED's) can burn... I have some tools at work where the control software is on the screen 24/7/365.. They are high end NEC monitors .. burned to a crisp.

The op link is well know in the photography circles (I am a member of his photog site).. I dont think he making it up... hopefully the issue is very limited or isolated... but that what applecare is for... bleeding edge does have drawbacks sometimes.
 
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