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you should understand that you can't disprove generalizations by single examples. he said "mostly," not "invariably."Originally posted by leet1
Right, mac fans are never misinformed,I was until I got a PC, lol so that proves that wrong.
Originally posted by leet1
Ok, you send me something new......I don't open it
Problem solved. No reason to open a strange document.
Configuring a firewall isn't too hard either. Linksys come with a nice little picture book of instructions, heh.
Of course you also have software firewalls. ZoneAlarm, which is free, ask you what you want to access the internet. Just say yes or no, pretty simple
Linksys huh? I hope you at least changed the default settings.
A lot of malicious code can be hidden in a web page or delivered through a successful port scan and instrusion. I can spoof names from your address book and send you an html email that will take over your machine. No html email? I will send you a link that you will probably open because it came from some random name in your address book. Once code is installed on your PC that firewall is useless.
A very big chunk of the spam mail floating around is due to compromised wintel boxes with liitle SMTP engines installed on them.
Maybe your machine is locked down tight. But it does not mean that it is secure. Every week there are new reported vulnerabilities, and many that do not get reported.
Macs ship with the root acct disabled by default. Its actually a pain in the ass to enable it. The only way I can install and run code (or change important settings that would enable me to) would be to have root priveleges. Malicious code loses its teeth when it asks permission to be installed.
In fact, not a full month ago, before I bought my new Apple laptop, I was using the school supplied Gateway box running Windows 2000 Professional (a step up from what a good deal of the windows world is still using), and I was hoping to be able to hold out through my Freshman year, and then get a mac. After the first month of school I was already pulling out my hair because basic features such as copy/pasting and internet browsing would simply stop functioning at least once a day, and always at the most in-opportune times. My friend on campus with a brand new Windows XP laptop said that he has the same problems with his computer but, (and I quote), "That's just the way things are, you just, learn to deal with them I guess." In my computer usage class we are taught that a graphical OS is cumbersome and difficult to use, and that Macs can only support 32 character filenames and that QuickTime has just reached version 3. And this is in a 2003 published textbook. I think that many people in the Windows world simply have Microsoft's d*ck wedged SO firmly up their ass that they can't even see that their OS is flawed on so many fundamental levels. Not only does Microsoft HAVE 95 percent market share, but they are employing at the very least borderline anti-competitive businesses practices. Can't they just accept that some people don't blindly follow their dogma instead of trying to smash those that are clinging to a way that is at the very least different if not better. Okay, that's enough for now, but I must say leet, you are just as closed minded about Windows if not more so than the people you are trying to make fun of. I have used Windows, and I have used Mac, and I prefer the Macintosh. I value creativity and my Mac is absolutely perfect for any creative field in existence today.
Im closed minded because I choose a PC that I have more options and is a money saver?
Maybe its not that most windows people have a **** up there ***, but it could be that it works for them and they actually like it
Im not trying to mac fun of anyone, really, I'm here to read, laugh, enjoy, and inform.
Maybe its not that most windows people have a **** up there ***, but it could be that it works for them and they actually like it
Im not trying to mac fun of anyone, really, I'm here to read, laugh, enjoy, and inform.
Originally posted by leet1
...most windows people have a **** up there *** ... it works for them and they actually like it
I know it's a misquote, but you said you are here to laugh
Anyway, I just get sick of people telling me that I only like Mac because I have never used a Windows machine. I have used and seen used Windows very often, and I'll admit that it is a better gaming platform, but if I want a gaming platform, I'll buy a PS2 or XBox or GameCube or whatever, whereas if I want a productive tool, I'll buy a mac. You wouldn't buy a WV Bug if you wanted to race just like you wouldn't by a Ferrari if you wanted to economically get from your house to the grocery store.
That's not an advantage
But, tazo I hope you realize that this economica penalty cuts both ways. If I have Adobe Suite for Macintosh it won't work on the PC will it? This isn't an advantage for the PC, but rather a reality of the software market. Consoles have the same problem, in fact most things do. The PC may have more games (notice I never said better) and a larger total number of software titles, but that's about it.
However, I can see how this could affect somone's decision to switch, but this is not an advantage for the PC.
And I think we can bash the PC all we want as long as its in fun, the PC people can't help doing the same, we don't have to be ambassadors all the time do we?
And finally, I would like the word zealot to be outlawed from all further discussions, it's idealogically loaded, it doesn't describe most Mac users and yet it is used to describe all of us. You might as well say drink the koolaide, or enter the RDF. These things are just ways for those who like something besides the Wintel solution to be belittled.
It's not like we're all holed up at Massada.
But, tazo I hope you realize that this economica penalty cuts both ways. If I have Adobe Suite for Macintosh it won't work on the PC will it? This isn't an advantage for the PC, but rather a reality of the software market. Consoles have the same problem, in fact most things do. The PC may have more games (notice I never said better) and a larger total number of software titles, but that's about it.
However, I can see how this could affect somone's decision to switch, but this is not an advantage for the PC.
And I think we can bash the PC all we want as long as its in fun, the PC people can't help doing the same, we don't have to be ambassadors all the time do we?
And finally, I would like the word zealot to be outlawed from all further discussions, it's idealogically loaded, it doesn't describe most Mac users and yet it is used to describe all of us. You might as well say drink the koolaide, or enter the RDF. These things are just ways for those who like something besides the Wintel solution to be belittled.
It's not like we're all holed up at Massada.
Originally posted by stoid
I know it's a misquote, but you said you are here to laugh
You wouldn't buy a WV Bug if you wanted to race just like you wouldn't by a Ferrari if you wanted to economically get from your house to the grocery store.
The pc platform is excellent for any task that a mac is. Were talking windows here specifically though I guess. Windows is more than just a good game platform, but I will never get that point across here<being a mac forum and all
> so I'll just stop there. Few reasons why people have problems with windows:
1. Id10T Error
2. Installing stupid ****
3. Saying yes to every promp that pops up when you go to a website<see #2>
4. ****ty hardware
5. Running an older version and thinking it will be just as good as the newer one<If you have windowsM.E., download XP off Kazaa, you deserve a free version >
6. Opening up unknown e-mails from unknown people.
RBC call
First, I call troll.
But, I'll bite because I'm bored waiting for my PC to finish printing (oh the joys of P4 2.4).
According the DOE CIAC http://www.ciac.org/ciac/ there are hundreds of virii for Windows and none for OSX.
Also, the RBC flaw that exhibited in August used a flaw in a service few used and almost no one knew about.
And if patching is so easy, how come MS couldn't do it for their own servers. Yes, you have not gotten a virus, I say you're lucky. Is OSX perfect, no but it's certainly better than Windows.
First, I call troll.
But, I'll bite because I'm bored waiting for my PC to finish printing (oh the joys of P4 2.4).
According the DOE CIAC http://www.ciac.org/ciac/ there are hundreds of virii for Windows and none for OSX.
Also, the RBC flaw that exhibited in August used a flaw in a service few used and almost no one knew about.
And if patching is so easy, how come MS couldn't do it for their own servers. Yes, you have not gotten a virus, I say you're lucky. Is OSX perfect, no but it's certainly better than Windows.
Re: RBC call
seriously, "leet1," i don't know what you're getting at. this is the single worst way to start posting in this community.
Re: Re: Re: RBC call
that's great, and you'll be welcome here, but i don't know that this is the best kind of discussion for you to start in on.
Well the parts that were written coherently I understood, so I will respond with the following:
If you are informed about the pc platform, talk to me. But I refuse to accept misinformed blanket statements that are not backed up by any logic, actual information, or more than one jerk's personal experience.
To say that macs suck is one thing, to say they suck because they lack the games I like or that they dont have the software I use on a daily basis is another. Ya see the difference? Logic, versus that which lacks it.
-tazo
Re: Re: RBC call
See that's the funny thing, I printed something out on my PB and it just flew out. I printed something on the PC and it just sat there wanking off before it printed. Now, I know my PB has a Gigabit Ethernet card, but ignoring that difference, which can't be much since my router is 10/100 so the signal is throttled down then anyway, the PC is still slow. This is in a PC centric office, and the PC running Win2k just stalls sometimes and the Mac runs like a champ.
Now you're doing to tell me my IT department configured something wrong, yadda, yadda, yadda but the fact is I brought the PB in, plug it into the router and boom I get fast printing. The Windows machine was worked on by a professional IT guy and yet, the Mac prints faster. Why?
Second, you ignored my question: if administering Windows machines and protecting them from virii is so easy, how come MS can't do it with their own servers.
Finally, I made the point about you being a troll because you have yet to bring anything to this conversation other than the usual PC rhetoric.
Originally posted by leet1
K, no reason to call names. Kinda childish don't you think?
OSX being better than windows is an opinion. Yours, not mine.
and I hope your not blaming that P4 2.4 being the reason your printers slow
See that's the funny thing, I printed something out on my PB and it just flew out. I printed something on the PC and it just sat there wanking off before it printed. Now, I know my PB has a Gigabit Ethernet card, but ignoring that difference, which can't be much since my router is 10/100 so the signal is throttled down then anyway, the PC is still slow. This is in a PC centric office, and the PC running Win2k just stalls sometimes and the Mac runs like a champ.
Now you're doing to tell me my IT department configured something wrong, yadda, yadda, yadda but the fact is I brought the PB in, plug it into the router and boom I get fast printing. The Windows machine was worked on by a professional IT guy and yet, the Mac prints faster. Why?
Second, you ignored my question: if administering Windows machines and protecting them from virii is so easy, how come MS can't do it with their own servers.
Finally, I made the point about you being a troll because you have yet to bring anything to this conversation other than the usual PC rhetoric.
Re: Re: Re: RBC call
Its gotta be another one of those 1D10T errors effecting ya man. Telling you, those things are terrible
k, forgeting that you can't configure a windows PC right for a printer, I'll move on from that.
This conversation was never about their servers. Its about their Windows XP OS or the PC platform in general.
Its gotta be another one of those 1D10T errors effecting ya man. Telling you, those things are terrible
k, forgeting that you can't configure a windows PC right for a printer, I'll move on from that.
This conversation was never about their servers. Its about their Windows XP OS or the PC platform in general.
Re: Re: Re: Re: RBC call
Little help for you: put your fingers on the primary keys: asdf jkl; that way you won't make mistakes like 1D1OT.
Second, you still haven't answered my question and I think its imperative that you do in an intelligent way: if administering a Windows environment, including both servers and desktops is so easy then why can't MS do it?If the tools and systems are so difficult for MS to administer, and they designed it, then why would you expect anyone else to be able to do the same? That is why the Mac is a better platform, my PB worked immediately using TCP/IP printing while the Wintel PC had to be reconfigured twice to work properly. (The IT dept. figured out the trouble and fixed it.)
The PC does have some advantages, but those are all from its pure ubiquitousness.
Originally posted by leet1
Its gotta be another one of those 1D10T errors effecting ya man. Telling you, those things are terrible
k, forgeting that you can't configure a windows PC right for a printer, I'll move on from that.
This conversation was never about their servers. Its about their Windows XP OS or the PC platform in general.
Little help for you: put your fingers on the primary keys: asdf jkl; that way you won't make mistakes like 1D1OT.
Second, you still haven't answered my question and I think its imperative that you do in an intelligent way: if administering a Windows environment, including both servers and desktops is so easy then why can't MS do it?If the tools and systems are so difficult for MS to administer, and they designed it, then why would you expect anyone else to be able to do the same? That is why the Mac is a better platform, my PB worked immediately using TCP/IP printing while the Wintel PC had to be reconfigured twice to work properly. (The IT dept. figured out the trouble and fixed it.)
The PC does have some advantages, but those are all from its pure ubiquitousness.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RBC call
I have no clue about microsoft servers, I know about microsoft windows 3.1,98,xp pro/home products so I can't say anything involving servers.
You have not proved that mac is the better platform, but your not trying to here, just saying it. I could get my 56 year old dad in here to explain the 1,000 ways windows is better in the business world and for home users, but I'm not dragging him up the stairs for that, lol
I have no clue about microsoft servers, I know about microsoft windows 3.1,98,xp pro/home products so I can't say anything involving servers.
You have not proved that mac is the better platform, but your not trying to here, just saying it. I could get my 56 year old dad in here to explain the 1,000 ways windows is better in the business world and for home users, but I'm not dragging him up the stairs for that, lol
My challenge...
1. Id10T Error
2. Installing stupid ****
3. Saying yes to every promp that pops up when you go to a website<see #2>
4. ****ty hardware
5. Running an older version and thinking it will be just as good as the newer one (If you have windowsM.E., download XP off Kazaa, you deserve a free version)
6. Opening up unknown e-mails from unknown people.
The above are reasons you used to explain the reason Windows becomes infected with virii, so I will try to refute the above and compare the above to the Mac world.
1. Idiot error: most users are not able to download all the patches and updates available for Windows at any given time, the tools to install those updates are often confusing (different names for each type, specific installation instructions that are not given with the update, etc.) or they have a tendancy to break things will makes updates for small networks up to the largest networks hazardous. This is why most sysadmins don't do it or test patches first. With the Mac OS the update tool is a simple point and click affair. The software update process is not perfect (the OSX.2.8 debacle comes to mind) and yet most if not all users are able to do updates and they can be automated for even the most useless users. Also, the updates are significantly smaller than the ones Windows users face, so using a 56k connection is not out of the realm of possibility.
2. Installing stupid ****. I assume you mean adware, spyware, and poorly made programs. While this can happen with the Mac OS, it is rare and a badly behaving program can be simply trashed and removed without orphaned .dlls scattered throughout the system. Also, this is used by most pro-Wintel users to show that so many more programs are available for the Windows platform, but many of them just outright suck. And because Mac OSX's underpinnings (UNIX) allow users to run without running as Admin really foolish users can be kept from installing programs in the first place.
3. Safari offers pop-up blocking which comes with every new Mac. Users don't even realize they can't see those prompts and never notice. Also, most evil malware doesn't work on the Mac. Also, IE which is deeply imbeded in the OS has numerous flaws which allow hackers to distribute dummy website which contain all sorts of dangerous ware. This is how Valve lost the Half-Life 2 source code.
4. ***ty hardware. Yep, much of the hardware for PC users sucks. Apple however makes quality products that last.
5. Ah yes, Windows ME almost as bad as BOB. The update stream for Windows is also confusing, quick what's the difference between WinXP Pro and Home Edition? Mac OS is sequential and OSX has the Classic environment to run old OS9 apps while users switch over.
6. Yes, Outlook Express, one of the most awfully coded apps is the de facto standard on Windows and it has been noted for running .exe programs without users prompts. Users merely download their email and are infected (witness the August series of virii to see the apps that were affected IE and OE) Meanwhile, while the Mac comes with Mail.app there are also at least a dozen other great programs for the Mac which do not run rouge executables and require the user to actively download and read the email, then run the executable, to become infected (users without Administrative access can't do this). Furthermore, there has yet to be a single virus for OSX. This may change, but even the most virulent virus cannot spread far because of the inherent design of OSX.
Windows users tend to fall into the trap I think you're in. Microsoft has made a half-assed product, sold it very well, and then stated publically that its all the user's fault. I'm not saying that some users aren't total tools and that all Mac users are better, but the Mac exhibits a better design and more intuitive interface and Apple has come up with some very nifty ways of solving problems that MS can't (software update for example) even with all their billions.
leet1 I wish you had come with something more I had hoped for a real debate about the inherent strengths and weaknesses of either platform but so far you have stated:
I have no clue about microsoft servers, I know about microsoft windows 3.1,98,xp pro/home products so I can't say anything involving servers.
You have not proved that mac is the better platform, but your not trying to here, just saying it. I could get my 56 year old dad in here to explain the 1,000 ways windows is better in the business world and for home users, but I'm not dragging him up the stairs for that, lol
Its gotta be another one of those 1D10T errors effecting ya man. Telling you, those things are terrible
k, forgeting that you can't configure a windows PC right for a printer, I'll move on from that.
This conversation was never about their servers. Its about their Windows XP OS or the PC platform in general.
The pc platform is excellent for any task that a mac is. Were talking windows here specifically though I guess. Windows is more than just a good game platform, but I will never get that point across here<being a mac forum and all > so I'll just stop there.
K, no reason to call names. Kinda childish don't you think? OSX being better than windows is an opinion. Yours, not mine. and I hope your not blaming that P4 2.4 being the reason your printers slow
First, learn to write your English is terrible (my apologies if you're an English as a Second Language student) if not maybe you should take a class. Second, I challenge you to say something about the PC or the Mac with actual information.
Maybe you should go wake up Dad.
1. Id10T Error
2. Installing stupid ****
3. Saying yes to every promp that pops up when you go to a website<see #2>
4. ****ty hardware
5. Running an older version and thinking it will be just as good as the newer one (If you have windowsM.E., download XP off Kazaa, you deserve a free version)
6. Opening up unknown e-mails from unknown people.
The above are reasons you used to explain the reason Windows becomes infected with virii, so I will try to refute the above and compare the above to the Mac world.
1. Idiot error: most users are not able to download all the patches and updates available for Windows at any given time, the tools to install those updates are often confusing (different names for each type, specific installation instructions that are not given with the update, etc.) or they have a tendancy to break things will makes updates for small networks up to the largest networks hazardous. This is why most sysadmins don't do it or test patches first. With the Mac OS the update tool is a simple point and click affair. The software update process is not perfect (the OSX.2.8 debacle comes to mind) and yet most if not all users are able to do updates and they can be automated for even the most useless users. Also, the updates are significantly smaller than the ones Windows users face, so using a 56k connection is not out of the realm of possibility.
2. Installing stupid ****. I assume you mean adware, spyware, and poorly made programs. While this can happen with the Mac OS, it is rare and a badly behaving program can be simply trashed and removed without orphaned .dlls scattered throughout the system. Also, this is used by most pro-Wintel users to show that so many more programs are available for the Windows platform, but many of them just outright suck. And because Mac OSX's underpinnings (UNIX) allow users to run without running as Admin really foolish users can be kept from installing programs in the first place.
3. Safari offers pop-up blocking which comes with every new Mac. Users don't even realize they can't see those prompts and never notice. Also, most evil malware doesn't work on the Mac. Also, IE which is deeply imbeded in the OS has numerous flaws which allow hackers to distribute dummy website which contain all sorts of dangerous ware. This is how Valve lost the Half-Life 2 source code.
4. ***ty hardware. Yep, much of the hardware for PC users sucks. Apple however makes quality products that last.
5. Ah yes, Windows ME almost as bad as BOB. The update stream for Windows is also confusing, quick what's the difference between WinXP Pro and Home Edition? Mac OS is sequential and OSX has the Classic environment to run old OS9 apps while users switch over.
6. Yes, Outlook Express, one of the most awfully coded apps is the de facto standard on Windows and it has been noted for running .exe programs without users prompts. Users merely download their email and are infected (witness the August series of virii to see the apps that were affected IE and OE) Meanwhile, while the Mac comes with Mail.app there are also at least a dozen other great programs for the Mac which do not run rouge executables and require the user to actively download and read the email, then run the executable, to become infected (users without Administrative access can't do this). Furthermore, there has yet to be a single virus for OSX. This may change, but even the most virulent virus cannot spread far because of the inherent design of OSX.
Windows users tend to fall into the trap I think you're in. Microsoft has made a half-assed product, sold it very well, and then stated publically that its all the user's fault. I'm not saying that some users aren't total tools and that all Mac users are better, but the Mac exhibits a better design and more intuitive interface and Apple has come up with some very nifty ways of solving problems that MS can't (software update for example) even with all their billions.
leet1 I wish you had come with something more I had hoped for a real debate about the inherent strengths and weaknesses of either platform but so far you have stated:
I have no clue about microsoft servers, I know about microsoft windows 3.1,98,xp pro/home products so I can't say anything involving servers.
You have not proved that mac is the better platform, but your not trying to here, just saying it. I could get my 56 year old dad in here to explain the 1,000 ways windows is better in the business world and for home users, but I'm not dragging him up the stairs for that, lol
Its gotta be another one of those 1D10T errors effecting ya man. Telling you, those things are terrible
k, forgeting that you can't configure a windows PC right for a printer, I'll move on from that.
This conversation was never about their servers. Its about their Windows XP OS or the PC platform in general.
The pc platform is excellent for any task that a mac is. Were talking windows here specifically though I guess. Windows is more than just a good game platform, but I will never get that point across here<being a mac forum and all > so I'll just stop there.
K, no reason to call names. Kinda childish don't you think? OSX being better than windows is an opinion. Yours, not mine. and I hope your not blaming that P4 2.4 being the reason your printers slow
First, learn to write your English is terrible (my apologies if you're an English as a Second Language student) if not maybe you should take a class. Second, I challenge you to say something about the PC or the Mac with actual information.
Maybe you should go wake up Dad.
Yes, english is my second languange, but this is a message board so don't critisize it, lol. If you can understand what I'm saying, then its fine. I'll work on my english, if you work on using that qoute button
I'm doing a humanities project at the moment involving the opera Carmen, so kind of occupied, but not using that as an excuse.
That list was not reasons for windows users getting viruses, just the reason they have problems with the OS.
You talk about the updating of windows to be complicated and terrible, but actually, its very easy. Its automatic. "Would you like to download the update now" you click yes, it downloads in the background. I remember when SP1 slowed down performance of games, so yes, sometimes patches get screwed, I agree.
Actually, Outlook express comes with all extensions turned off. It will not let you run a program unless you disable these extensions. Not sure where you got this from.
Nothing that a regular user would notice
I'm sorry? Its preaching to the choir, not worth me trying to "teach" you that Windows is as good, and better in some areas over the Mac OS. Keep it clean, protected, and up to date and its as solid as a rock<I'm not going to make any generalized statements like a lot being said> for me.
I'm doing a humanities project at the moment involving the opera Carmen, so kind of occupied, but not using that as an excuse.
That list was not reasons for windows users getting viruses, just the reason they have problems with the OS.
You talk about the updating of windows to be complicated and terrible, but actually, its very easy. Its automatic. "Would you like to download the update now" you click yes, it downloads in the background. I remember when SP1 slowed down performance of games, so yes, sometimes patches get screwed, I agree.
Actually, Outlook express comes with all extensions turned off. It will not let you run a program unless you disable these extensions. Not sure where you got this from.
Nothing that a regular user would notice
I'm sorry? Its preaching to the choir, not worth me trying to "teach" you that Windows is as good, and better in some areas over the Mac OS. Keep it clean, protected, and up to date and its as solid as a rock<I'm not going to make any generalized statements like a lot being said> for me.
Here's the difference. I also use Windows, I have to. I don't like it. I don't play a lot of games, have a PS2 if I do. Most Mac users have or are using Windows. They know how much it can suck. Most Windows people have never used Macs (esp. recent Macs). How many Windows people hate Windows? How many know how to make their computers secure? I do, but it's a hassle, and most don't. They just want their computers to work, which most of the time, Macs do.
Are they perfect? No. Better than Windows? I think so. And unlike some people, I base that on facts. Show me a Mac problem, and I'll show you countless times as many Windows problems. Do we have some zealots here? Yes, but mostly just trying to counteract the FUD from <ahem> trolls. You should do a search of the many things M$ has done. Guarantee that Apple look like saints compared. Not perfect, just better. But, more expensive and not as prevalent.
Audio/video/graphics/functionality in general, IMO better. I could be wrong, but... um... have you ever used a Mac?
Agreed.
"Most Mac users are nice. However, a certian percentage of them are crazy fanatics/zealots who believe that Apple is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and anything non-Apple is evil and must be destroyed.
The problem with Mac fanatics is that they do not realize that they are hurting the very thing they love so much. Being irrationally fanatical is certainly not an effective way to encourage more people to switch to Mac. Irrational fanaticism just scares reasonable people away from the Mac."
I find this quite fitting.
Tazo makes another good point in his second post as well. To rationalise the pros and cons is the only way to arrive at a conclusion as to which platform suits you best.
I use windows for the following main reasons:
1. Huge software and hardware base
2: Price
3: Games
4: Custom build + expandability
you know what
me to Never had a virus.In the end it all comes down to the hardware. The PowerPC vs x86. Each have their strenghts and weaknesses, IPC's, interger, floating point, etc... Let's just leave it
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