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Buying a WinTel machine is like...
- Thread starter lewdvig
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Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
manitoubalck-
You just don't get it do you?
Those 4 factors you list may be all that's important in a computer to you, but they aren't universals for everyone who uses a computer.
People choose Macs in spite of the things you list for lots of reasons:
You just don't get it do you?
Those 4 factors you list may be all that's important in a computer to you, but they aren't universals for everyone who uses a computer.
People choose Macs in spite of the things you list for lots of reasons:
- Stability - XP comes a long way to closing this gap, but in my experience OS X is still way out in front
- User interface - see above
- Ease of use - see above
- "True" PnP - see above
[/list=1]
And I'm sure there are more reasons that others have that I've left off.
A couple of things to keep in mind:
- Almost every Mac user has had to use a PC at some time in their life; the same cannot be said about PC users
- What do you think your reaction would be if an Intel fan came onto an AMD forum and told you how stupid you were for using AMD chips?
Food for thought...
Accounting....
While Quickbooks is nice on the Mac, PC's are still dominant in the world of Accounting. It would be nice if Peachtree Accounting was ported to the Mac.
Other than that, I really can't think of any area where distinctly better.
Re: Re: Re: RBC call
I 100% agree with where you are coming from. Blame it on the IT guys or whatever... Every PC in our office jacks up this one thing I have to do. I bring in my PB, plug it in and <gasp> it JUST FREAKIN WORKS. Gets the job done. Nothing like having my Mac pull through in times of need. Also, its frustrating when you can't open word by double clicking the icon b/c you get an error saying it "has generated errors and will be closed by windows". Yet, if you open a saved word document, it opens alright. Win2k. I'm not impressed.
And I am in the camp that PCs are good, Macs are good (well better)... 😛
I 100% agree with where you are coming from. Blame it on the IT guys or whatever... Every PC in our office jacks up this one thing I have to do. I bring in my PB, plug it in and <gasp> it JUST FREAKIN WORKS. Gets the job done. Nothing like having my Mac pull through in times of need. Also, its frustrating when you can't open word by double clicking the icon b/c you get an error saying it "has generated errors and will be closed by windows". Yet, if you open a saved word document, it opens alright. Win2k. I'm not impressed.
And I am in the camp that PCs are good, Macs are good (well better)... 😛
I have also heard PC users (especially from my church) try and say there are no high quality Bible Software for Mac OS X.
I guess by high quality they mean software that you have to shell out a lot of money to get.
Of course there is MacSword (freeware), iBible (shareware), and a couple other free bible programs, but I didn't know of any really good commercial Bible software for Mac OS X.
The other day I happened upon Accordance.
This is just as good (if not better) than anything I've seen on the PC.
http://www.oaksoft.com
(I now see that the program was reviewed in Macworld, even though that's not where I heard of it)
I guess by high quality they mean software that you have to shell out a lot of money to get.
Of course there is MacSword (freeware), iBible (shareware), and a couple other free bible programs, but I didn't know of any really good commercial Bible software for Mac OS X.
The other day I happened upon Accordance.
This is just as good (if not better) than anything I've seen on the PC.
http://www.oaksoft.com
(I now see that the program was reviewed in Macworld, even though that's not where I heard of it)
hulugu
macrumors 68000
The scale
My original point before I managed to get into a raving froth with leet1 was that often times the wrong things are used to justify Windows over the Mac. Switching costs, as I said before, cuts both ways. So that can't be considered an advantage for either. But, I do agree that on your points the PC does beat the Mac, although software/hardware base sometimes seems like a disadvantage for the PC: there are some aweful choices out there, and price is often over-estimated, and the G4/G5 towers do allow the same kind of expandability that PCs have. These things do exist, but I think usability, TCO, and total lifetime of the computer should also be calculated in. There is a lot of information that needs to be considered when buying a computer and I think both have their advantages and disadvantages.
I wish leet1 and other pro-PCs users could give me some really good reasons why the PC is better than the Mac beyond the pure ubiquitous nature of the x86 platform, but IMHO I think that's all there is to the Wintel advantage, shear numbers.
My original point before I managed to get into a raving froth with leet1 was that often times the wrong things are used to justify Windows over the Mac. Switching costs, as I said before, cuts both ways. So that can't be considered an advantage for either. But, I do agree that on your points the PC does beat the Mac, although software/hardware base sometimes seems like a disadvantage for the PC: there are some aweful choices out there, and price is often over-estimated, and the G4/G5 towers do allow the same kind of expandability that PCs have. These things do exist, but I think usability, TCO, and total lifetime of the computer should also be calculated in. There is a lot of information that needs to be considered when buying a computer and I think both have their advantages and disadvantages.
I wish leet1 and other pro-PCs users could give me some really good reasons why the PC is better than the Mac beyond the pure ubiquitous nature of the x86 platform, but IMHO I think that's all there is to the Wintel advantage, shear numbers.
I know someone who soley turned down buying an ibook for that reason. Wish I knew that earlier... Oh well...🙄
Re: The scale
Why? you will never be convinced to buy one. Those four reasons + the many options of OS's to choose from and use are convincing enough for 95% of the people out there including me 🙄 I have an old 15mhz computer that still works running Windows 3.1. A computers like a car, you take care of it, it will last. Weither it be a mac or x86 machine.
Why? you will never be convinced to buy one. Those four reasons + the many options of OS's to choose from and use are convincing enough for 95% of the people out there including me 🙄 I have an old 15mhz computer that still works running Windows 3.1. A computers like a car, you take care of it, it will last. Weither it be a mac or x86 machine.
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
It's funny how people toss around market share as if 100% of computers users were choosing PCs. In my experience, most people simply don't know that there's an alternative.
But if 95% of people using the same platform as you makes you feel more secure in your choice...*shrug*
But if 95% of people using the same platform as you makes you feel more secure in your choice...*shrug*
Of course it makes me feel secure! Being able to find a part or add-on in any electronics store is so damn nice.
I never said 100% I said 95%, just fyi. Prove that wrong and I will retract it.
I guess Apple just sucks at advertising or something since most don't know of an alternative. Maybe they should work on that.
hulugu
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: The scale
Other OSs? Linux runs on PPC too, you can even partition a drive to have Linux (Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog) and OSX on the same machine. As for the old 15mhz running Windows 3.1, that's great I have a Mac Plus too but that doesn't really tell me much about a modern platform.
I was actually interested to hear your opinion about distinct advantages the Wintel/AMD/x86 solutions has over MacOS/PPC beyond their shear numbers. I don't think you can, and all of the reasons previously stated are just examples of that singular advantage. BTW, I apologize for any slight regarding your abilities in writing English however you might do very well to use spell check which will help you. I have to do the same thing when writing in French and Spanish.
Other OSs? Linux runs on PPC too, you can even partition a drive to have Linux (Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog) and OSX on the same machine. As for the old 15mhz running Windows 3.1, that's great I have a Mac Plus too but that doesn't really tell me much about a modern platform.
I was actually interested to hear your opinion about distinct advantages the Wintel/AMD/x86 solutions has over MacOS/PPC beyond their shear numbers. I don't think you can, and all of the reasons previously stated are just examples of that singular advantage. BTW, I apologize for any slight regarding your abilities in writing English however you might do very well to use spell check which will help you. I have to do the same thing when writing in French and Spanish.
Re: Re: Re: The scale
What else is there to prove? Price, reliability, depending on what parts you buy or who you buy from, it can be just as stable, and faster. What more needs to be said?
What else is there to prove? Price, reliability, depending on what parts you buy or who you buy from, it can be just as stable, and faster. What more needs to be said?
In each of the electronic stores in my area, there are macs displayed, as well as PC's. Now explain how they don't have a choice?
manitoubalck
macrumors 6502a
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The reasons I gave were "MY" reasons for currently using a x86 machine, not GENERAL reasons why most of the world(~95%) uses x86 machines. I never mentioned AMD in this post, and if someone started gloating about the new intel Prescot core on www.amdzone.com as long as they REASONED WHY they thought the Prescot core was so much better than the Opteron core it WOULDN'T bother me, but rather make for CONSTRUCTIVE discussion, rather than blindness daming.
Tazo makes the point so clear that zeolite blindness and saying something is bad because it sucks, is just pointless.
As you mentioned there are REAL benifits of theb apple mac, as there are REAL benifits of the x86 platform, but currently the benifits of the apple mac are not strong enough to pull me over. Sorry😉
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
Not everyone has electronics stores that carry both, or electronics stores at all. Plus, there are lots of misconceptions about Macs in general that cause people to discount them as options.
They only see/use PCs at work, so that's what they get for their personal machine. People think Macs are just for kids/artists/whatever, so they get a PC that's more "business-like".
Or the simple sticker price puts up an artificial barrier and people don't consider long-term factors that even out the cost.
I can go on all day...
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
manitoubalck-
The reason I mentioned the AMD forum thing was to get you to see how the situation goes both ways. You have people on all kinds of forums who will lash out at any sort of opposition and those who will reason and discuss.
Just as you have people who visit forums just to cause problems and those who come for discussion.
The reason I mentioned the AMD forum thing was to get you to see how the situation goes both ways. You have people on all kinds of forums who will lash out at any sort of opposition and those who will reason and discuss.
Just as you have people who visit forums just to cause problems and those who come for discussion.
What long term factors out the cost? I can give you a million examples of dells, compaqs/hp's, toshibas, and even an E-machine! lasting for over 5 years, without the need of replacement parts, minus maybe adding some memory.
I'm talking sub $1,000 systems here
by the way, about the artistic thing and macs, I can't stand that. They either think that thats what they are for or that they are better than PCs for those kind of jobs.
manitoubalck
macrumors 6502a
Re: The scale
I agree there are many terible programs ot there, Hence I try before I buy(download the app) and then sometimes forget to buy🙄 opps?.
My PC is 4 years old in Feb, and I won't lie to you; I've had problems, but in fixing thoses hardware and software glitches, and building and re-building my and other's machines several times (mostly just to swap cases, or building machines for friends) I have become a more informed user. I don't have the luxuray of calling up a help desk, I just have to nut it out myself.🙂
I agree there are many terible programs ot there, Hence I try before I buy(download the app) and then sometimes forget to buy🙄 opps?.
My PC is 4 years old in Feb, and I won't lie to you; I've had problems, but in fixing thoses hardware and software glitches, and building and re-building my and other's machines several times (mostly just to swap cases, or building machines for friends) I have become a more informed user. I don't have the luxuray of calling up a help desk, I just have to nut it out myself.🙂
Rower_CPU
Moderator emeritus
And I can turn around and give you examples of the Dells and Macs in the university labs I manage and how many hardware failures the Dells have had compared to the Macs. What's your experience with both platforms?
It's a fact that Apple does not try to compete for the low-end market. They simply cannot afford to challenge Dell on cheap plastic parts. 😉
Too much on a mac, lol
Cheep plastic parts that work and last.....I'm not seeing the bad side of this....😀
I think what you should have said was "They simply cannot afford to challenge Dell." and ended it there 😉
manitoubalck
macrumors 6502a
Ahh, Rower, how right you are. I come here to discuss, not to plug. And it seems that the discussion part is the part you and Leet seem to be missing, you attack me, and you can't say that I don't give my reasons in my posts. I agree that Leet is a thawn but come on, don't you be so childish, your a Mod and should lead by example, not stoop to people like Leet's level.
hulugu
macrumors 68000
Market Share
leet1 brings up an interesting point (I've decided to stop snarling at him and see where we can go with this).
Has anyone found a reliable source for marketshare data? Maybe even broken down by consumer/server/webserve. The only numbers I have found relate to specific sales, i.e. Apple's laptop sales versus the total number in that quarter (7% and number 5, just below IBM) pay attention leet1, and I believe there was a Netcraft survey that stated Linux/Apache servers consisted of 65%+ of the webserver market.
So, my question is, are almost all of these PCs being used in businesses? Homes? A mixture of the two.
I'm looking for real, verified statistics. Otherwise, the whole marketshare number seems at least as useful as anecdotal evidence.
I know that MS has often emphasized its total marketshare by using total copies shipped (this says nothing of products like VPC where you can run 4 versions of Windows and yet you didn't buy a Windows machine and are in fact using a Mac, nor does it note the copies languishing on store shelves, or the thousand of copies I'm sure were shipped with new PCs which were replaced with the various flavors of Linux as soon as buyers could.)
Plus, things to keep in mind, are we taking the total amount sold in a quarter, year, or are we also adding in legacy numbers. I would like some real data.
leet1 brings up an interesting point (I've decided to stop snarling at him and see where we can go with this).
Has anyone found a reliable source for marketshare data? Maybe even broken down by consumer/server/webserve. The only numbers I have found relate to specific sales, i.e. Apple's laptop sales versus the total number in that quarter (7% and number 5, just below IBM) pay attention leet1, and I believe there was a Netcraft survey that stated Linux/Apache servers consisted of 65%+ of the webserver market.
So, my question is, are almost all of these PCs being used in businesses? Homes? A mixture of the two.
I'm looking for real, verified statistics. Otherwise, the whole marketshare number seems at least as useful as anecdotal evidence.
I know that MS has often emphasized its total marketshare by using total copies shipped (this says nothing of products like VPC where you can run 4 versions of Windows and yet you didn't buy a Windows machine and are in fact using a Mac, nor does it note the copies languishing on store shelves, or the thousand of copies I'm sure were shipped with new PCs which were replaced with the various flavors of Linux as soon as buyers could.)
Plus, things to keep in mind, are we taking the total amount sold in a quarter, year, or are we also adding in legacy numbers. I would like some real data.
manitoubalck
macrumors 6502a
What it with mac fans and DELL's, I wouldn't be caught dead using a DELL. Take the challenge build your own machine.😀
Re: Market Share
I'm using the percent I usually see people saying on here. If you do find something, please post a link though. Home users, not business users is what I'm actually wondering about.
I'm using the percent I usually see people saying on here. If you do find something, please post a link though. Home users, not business users is what I'm actually wondering about.
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