Caldigit RAID card

[phildog33]

that High Point cable I bought.. was just for connecting to extneral arrays or individual boxes..

nothing works except their HD Element.. this is my finding


Internally... you dont need any cables.. just disconnect the cable on motherboard sas and attach to raid card J18/J19

P

 

[nanofrog]

that High Point cable I bought.. was just for connecting to extneral arrays or individual boxes..

I wasn't referring to the cable you linked, sorry I should have been clearer.
I meant the SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 cable that was mentioned in the Installation Guide that Jon I believe, posted just before they shipped. I was quite confused at that point, then you posted it wasn't needed, so I was just wondering if it was for a different configuration than you used. (I intend to use the same set-up you did. )

nothing works except their HD Element.. this is my finding

This was my understanding.
IIRC, Jon at CalDigit had posted in a different forum back in Jan, indicating that it would work with other drive boxes. He later (April/May) told me the same in a phone conversation. Then to find out from you, and later others, that this wasn't the case.

Internally... you dont need any cables.. just disconnect the cable on motherboard sas and attach to raid card J18/J19

P

It seems it will work, but I'm still looking at a couple of other options. Faster, and don't require drive boxes by the same manufacturer.
In the end, they may prove to be a better bargain and suit my needs.

Thanks,
NF.

 

[Virtuoso]

Nanofrog - the internal cable is only needed if you want to run Bootcamp. I think it's basically a workaround to enable non-EFI PCs to boot.

Still no sign of the battery.

 

[nanofrog]

Nanofrog - the internal cable is only needed if you want to run Bootcamp. I think it's basically a workaround to enable non-EFI PCs to boot.

Still no sign of the battery.

I was under the impression that I could unhook the iPass cable from the logic board and attach it to the CalDigit card. Obtain a new fan-out cable (SFF_8087 to 4x SATA), attach to the logic board (iPass end), and attach the SATA connectors to two other drives mounted in empty optical bay, and the other two to an eSATA bracket. Each of the two drives would serve as Boot Drives, one for OS X, and the other for windows. Boot Camp operation would work as it uses the original HDD controller on the logic board.

So do you mean that the above description isn't possible, which IIRC is what Phildog33 did, or do you mean for a different configuration. As in attach an SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 from the logic board to the CalDigit card, as well as the original iPass cable. This would make some sense to me.

Sorry about the length of the post, but I'm still trying to determine if this card is actually an option for me, or do I need to look elsewhere.

Thanks,
NF

 

[Virtuoso]

I was under the impression that I could unhook the iPass cable from the logic board and attach it to the CalDigit card. Obtain a new fan-out cable (SFF_8087 to 4x SATA), attach to the logic board (iPass end), and attach the SATA connectors to two other drives mounted in empty optical bay, and the other two to an eSATA bracket. Each of the two drives would serve as Boot Drives, one for OS X, and the other for windows. Boot Camp operation would work as it uses the original HDD controller on the logic board.

That should work - you're just connecting 4 drives directly to the Mac motherboard. Those drives won't be using the RAID card though. The cable configuration Caldigit are talking about enables you to boot Windows from the RAID card using Bootcamp.

 

[nanofrog]

That should work - you're just connecting 4 drives directly to the Mac motherboard. Those drives won't be using the RAID card though. The cable configuration Caldigit are talking about enables you to boot Windows from the RAID using Bootcamp.

To me, it's safer to boot from a separate drive, non RAID. I would also prefer to use all the lanes on the RAID card for RAID drives. I like speed in RAID. Boot speed is second.

Nor do I want to lose the drive controller on the logic board. I like having the extra SATA ports available.

At least this does solve the confusion over the additional cable (SFF-8087 to SFF-8087).

Thanks,
NF.

 

[Virtuoso]

To me, it's safer to boot from a separate drive, non RAID.

Why safer? If your boot drive fails, you've lost your o/s and apps and have to go through the hassle of restoring from a backup or reinstalling from scratch. If you boot from your RAID5 and a drive fails, you just replace the drive and carry on while the RAID rebuilds itself in the background.

Of course, if two drives fail simultaneously on a RAID5 then you're screwed.

I would also prefer to use all the lanes on the RAID card for RAID drives. I like speed in RAID. Boot speed is second.

Are you talking about RAID0? If so, if any one of your drives fails, you lose everything.

If you run RAID5, you will be using all the lanes on the card, but your o/s and apps will load faster and you will also have the benefit of the 256Mb controller cache. You can still partition the RAID however you like - I have one 320Gb partition for the o/s and one 1.7Gb partition for data. The speed on both partitions is the same - around 260-270Mb/s for both read and write.

 

[noushy]

Caldigit Raid

Hello all,
I am waiting for a new third party enclosure to try out, it was shipped but has not arrived. I am using a minisas sff-8087 to satax4 cable, and it works with drives attached externally. My apple 30 has been on the fritz (sitting at the apple store in novi), and so I have not had time to work on it but I promise as soon as the new case arrives, will give you guys the details. For the rest of you, here goes... The card has two internal minisas connectors (SFF-8087 I think) which are used to connect the 4 apple hotswap bays and the apple motherboard connector. The lower internal port is used to attach to the cable which feeds the 4 drive bays. The upper connector is a passthrough, which when used with their short (around 8 inch) SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 cable allows bootcamp to work. One end goes to the upper internal port, the other to the motherboard connector. The card has three external minisas (SFF-8088) which can connect to a variety of drives provided you have the right cable. Please email me and I can take some pictures for you guys. Email at noushyk@hotmail.com

 

[noushy]

Final Note

Sorry for the double post, also forgot, there is a new firmware update, make sure that you have updated your card before trying out the external cases. Their HDElement is nothing special other than a 4 bay sata/sas case with minisas sff-8088 connector. Any standard setup should work provided the right cable is used.

Noushy

 

[Virtuoso]

I thought they had locked their RAID Shield utility to only work with their own external enclosures?

If not, that's cool - I'll add another 4 drives. Have you got any links to the enclosure and cable you've ordered?

 

[nanofrog]

Why safer? If your boot drive fails, you've lost your o/s and apps and have to go through the hassle of restoring from a backup or reinstalling from scratch. If you boot from your RAID5 and a drive fails, you just replace the drive and carry on while the RAID rebuilds itself in the background.

Of course, if two drives fail simultaneously on a RAID5 then you're screwed.

Are you talking about RAID0? If so, if any one of your drives fails, you lose everything.

If you run RAID5, you will be using all the lanes on the card, but your o/s and apps will load faster and you will also have the benefit of the 256Mb controller cache. You can still partition the RAID however you like - I have one 320Gb partition for the o/s and one 1.7Gb partition for data. The speed on both partitions is the same - around 260-270Mb/s for both read and write.

In my case, it's in the specifics.
Much better to lose an OS than the data. It ends up less effort and aggravation.

To be specific, I need to run multiple OS's, and I've not been able to find one that can boot from the array in this manner. One at best, but not multiples, so I'm forced to use separate boot drives. And no, I'm not foolish enough to run RAID 0. I usually run RAID 5, though I still occasionally look at RAID 6 and 10, if I have enough drives. This also poses somewhat of a problem with RAID on a Mac Pro. It can be done, but there aren't too many out there. So far, I've narrowed my possible selections to:

• CalDigit RAID Card

• Areca ARC-1680ix16

• ATTO ExpressSAS R30F

The CalDigit is the least expensive card, but with a speed sacrifice. Combine that with the HDElement drive box by force it seems, not even a bargain.

The ATTO card is nice, but the most expensive of the lot. Also requires the internal to external adapters.

That leaves the Areca. Though it has an external port, it won't work in a Mac. The ARC-1680ix16 has 16 internal lanes (4 ports), and can be used with external boxes using internal to external adapters.

Simplified, but I tried to keep it restricted to physical installation issues.

If you know of any other card that could work, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Virtuoso]

I need to run multiple OS's, and I've not been able to find one that can boot from the array in this manner.

I think the Caldigit card will do this. It supports Mac, Windows and Linux so unless you're running BeOS, you should be covered. You should be able to just create an array with 3 (or more) slices, each with its own LUN, and then choose which to boot from.

Send them an email - they will tell you if and how it can be done.

 

[nanofrog]

I think the Caldigit card will do this. It supports Mac, Windows and Linux so unless you're running BeOS, you should be covered. You should be able to just create an array with 3 (or more) slices, each with its own LUN, and then choose which to boot from.

Send them an email - they will tell you if and how it can be done.

It can.

I would like to set-up an 8 drive RAID 5, and have the ability to expand it if needed. Straightforward I should think.

My issues have come about due to the apparent forced use of the HDElement drive enclosure. Doing the math, this kills the savings that I can obtain from the purchase of the card.

So I've been looking for alternatives, listed above. They happen to be faster. Though the cards are more expensive, it actually worked out less expensive when comparing external enclosures. Now add the fact I get to decide on the drives used. Thus the consternation.

 

[kittiyut]

The cable configuration Caldigit are talking about enables you to boot Windows from the RAID using Bootcamp.

That is quite incorrect and misleading.
Installing the cable (connecting J19 back to the motherboard along with resetting jumpers) will by pass HD in bay 1 from the RAID card. This will leave you with 3 drives (bay 2,3 and 4) left for creating a RAID array. RAID sheild will see drive 1 as "off line" which is the drive you can install windows to.

I originally had the apple card so what I did was;

1. Install the raid drivers
2. Clone the drive to an external drive
3. Take out the apple card, install the caldigit card with bypass cable
4. Reboot MP with external drive
5. Update firmware, bootware, EFI (requires reboot each time)
6. Create a raid 5 array using raid shield
7. Initialize the raid
8. Wait 4-5 hours
9. Clone back from the external drive to the raid
10. Feel good about it

11. Launch Bootcamp - get an error
12. Feel fustrated. Never mind.
13. Boot MP with Vista 64bit with SP1 knowing that it won't work but tried anyway
14. Boot MP with Vista 64bit without SP1
15. Could not format drive, I think it was because the drive was formatted for MAC OS
16. Reboot MP with MAC OS and format the drive with FAT
17. Reboot MP with Vista disk - have to format drive again for NTFS
18. Apply SP1
19. Install bootcamp 2.01 (for the drivers)
20. Install bootcamp 2.1 update (which requires 2.01)
21. Update everything else
22. Install games. Played Bioshock - got a few freezes.

Note, I did not use bootcamp. I did not try to install windows to the raid array - which I don't think you can do anyway (that's what tech support told me - maybe you can by pressing F8 to install the raid drivers). I didn't bother to install the raid array drivers as I want to keep the two totally separate.

 

[kittiyut]

The cable configuration Caldigit are talking about enables you to boot Windows from the RAID using Bootcamp.

That is quite incorrect and misleading.
Installing the cable (connecting J19 back to the motherboard along with resetting jumpers) will by pass HD in bay 1 from the RAID card. This will leave you with 3 drives (bay 2,3 and 4) left for creating a RAID array (this also reduces the read/write speed compared to 4-drive raid 5). RAID sheild will see drive 1 as "off line" which is the drive you can install windows to.

I originally had the apple card so what I did was;

1. Install the raid drivers
2. Clone the drive to an external drive
3. Take out the apple card, install the caldigit card with bypass cable
4. Reboot MP with external drive
5. Update firmware, bootware, EFI (requires reboot each time)
6. Create a raid 5 array using raid shield
7. Initialize the raid
8. Wait 4-5 hours
9. Clone back from the external drive to the raid
10. Feel good about it

11. Launch Bootcamp - get an error
12. Feel fustrated. Never mind.
13. Boot MP with Vista 64bit with SP1 knowing that it won't work but tried anyway
14. Boot MP with Vista 64bit without SP1
15. Could not format drive, I think it was because the drive was formatted for MAC OS
16. Reboot MP with MAC OS and format the drive with FAT
17. Reboot MP with Vista disk - have to format drive again for NTFS
18. Apply SP1
19. Install bootcamp 2.01 (for the drivers)
20. Install bootcamp 2.1 update (which requires 2.01)
21. Update everything else
22. Install games. Played Bioshock - got a few freezes.

Note, I did not use bootcamp. I did not try to install windows to the raid array - which I don't think you can do anyway (that's what tech support told me - maybe you can by pressing F8 to install the raid drivers). I didn't bother to install the raid array drivers as I want to keep the two totally separate.

 

[Virtuoso]

That is quite incorrect and misleading.

Oops - good catch. I meant to type 'enables you to boot Windows from the RAID card using Bootcamp.'

One thing I'm curious about - if you use J19, does the drive in bay 1 still get to use the cache memory on the Caldigit card or is it just passed straight to the main motherboard?

 

[noushy]

Update with bootcamp info

Ok, I am still waiting for a special cable SFF-8088 to Infiniband, but otherwise discovered how to make bootcamp work without the silly short minisas to minisas (SFF8087) cable from caldigit. First of all, whomever wrote that all it does is pass the ipass connector to drive one is completely correct. In order to maintain a 4 drive internal array and have a boot drive, need to connect the internal ipass to the lower caldigit internal connector. Then purchase a SFF8087 to satax4 breakout cable (i used a 3ware cable) which can be purchased cheap from provantage and pass this up through to the lower optical bay. The minisas end (sff-8087) connects to the macpro motherboard connector. I am going to use a maxupgrades dual 3.5 bracket, but for now just place a 3.5 to 5.25 adapter on your boot drive and mount it in the lower optical bay. Now bootcamp will work fine, because the drive is attached to sata 1-4 connectors, instead of the 5-6 connectors which do not work with bootcamp. I am installing vista x64 right now. If anyone has questions, email me and I will send pictures. I promise to tell you how the external setup works in the chassis as soon as the cable arrives. I was promised by the caldigit tech that it would indeed work.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

To me, it makes better sense to do it this way. Buy a fan-out cable, attach it to the logic board, and use it for up to 4 boot drives.
Finding the physical space to mount them is another issue.

 

[kittiyut]

Oops - good catch. I meant to type 'enables you to boot Windows from the RAID card using Bootcamp.'

One thing I'm curious about - if you use J19, does the drive in bay 1 still get to use the cache memory on the Caldigit card or is it just passed straight to the main motherboard?

Passed straight to the main motherboard.

Sorry about the double post, I must've pressed submit twice?
How do I delete the duplicate?

KK

 

[noushy]

Bootcamp and Raid card

Nanofrog, what you are proposing is exactly what I did. Essentially the fan out cable or SFF-8087 to 4x Sata cable to keep the boot drive, and additional drives connected to sata 1-4 on the motherboard. This works the best because Apple's bootcamp requires a HD on sata 1-4, not 5 or 6. Also, the raid card works perfectly with vista x64 as well. Just make sure you do not allow vista to reinitialize the partition, which I did and causes you to lose everything. Use Apple's Disk Utility to create as many partitions as you like (I did 2, one for MacOS, one for Windows), and format them appropriately. In Vista, the windows formatted partitions show up immediately. I run paragon software, so the mac can use the NTFS partitions as well.

Noushy

 

[phildog33]

I tried this a few months ago... Highpoint Cable and External Enclosure and couldnt find ANY solution to work at all

Please some one who has this working configuration, chime in and tell us what enclosure is working with the CalDigit card and what cable to buy

Are you able to have a Raid 5 array spread out over the external enclosure and the internal 4 hard drives??

Phillip

 

[nanofrog]

I tried this a few months ago... Highpoint Cable and External Enclosure and couldnt find ANY solution to work at all

Please some one who has this working configuration, chime in and tell us what enclosure is working with the CalDigit card and what cable to buy

I'd also like to know if this.

Are you able to have a Raid 5 array spread out over the external enclosure and the internal 4 hard drives??

Phillip

According to CalDigit, Yes. There would be a speed decrease compared to all external drives though.

Due to the external enclosure issue, I've held off purchasing it, and I've been looking for alternatives. Have you come across any that would be of note for both OS X and Boot Camp operation?

Thanks.

 

[noushy]

Update on Card

Nanofrog, the Caldigit card is capable of supporting any external enclosure, but the software is set to only recognize the HDElement. I am waiting for a confirmation from their tech support on how to get around this. The reason is due to some type of proprietary communication that goes on between the HDElement and the card regarding temperatures and fan settings. Not sure why other than to steer people to their enclosures. You can use a pass through from the internal port to an adapter and this works, but does not solve your problem. If you do a search for 8/12/16 port SATA raid cards, you see that most of them start at around $800. The adaptec and atto cards are around $900 each for 8 ports although they support SAS drives. I think for the money, and using SATA drives, the Caldigit card is still a good buy. I paid less than $500 for it delivered, and I get 250MBs/300MBs write/read speeds easily. I do get 105MBs/106MBs with my raptor boot drive, but that is another story. I will post when Jon from Caldigit gets back with me.

Peace

 

[nanofrog]

Nanofrog, the Caldigit card is capable of supporting any external enclosure, but the software is set to only recognize the HDElement. I am waiting for a confirmation from their tech support on how to get around this. The reason is due to some type of proprietary communication that goes on between the HDElement and the card regarding temperatures and fan settings. Not sure why other than to steer people to their enclosures.

I was made aware of some communication, and that this was the issue for using 3rd party enclosures. No mention of a work-around though.
I would be nice, as it's a decent card for what it is. The software provided appears to make set-up and management easier. More than I can say for my past experiences.

You can use a pass through from the internal port to an adapter and this works, but does not solve your problem.

Not sure what you mean here.

If you do a search for 8/12/16 port SATA raid cards, you see that most of them start at around $800. The adaptec and atto cards are around $900 each for 8 ports although they support SAS drives. I think for the money, and using SATA drives, the Caldigit card is still a good buy. I paid less than $500 for it delivered, and I get 250MBs/300MBs write/read speeds easily. I do get 105MBs/106MBs with my raptor boot drive, but that is another story. I will post when Jon from Caldigit gets back with me.

Peace

Unfortunately, I'm aware of the cost for cards with 8/12/16 ports, and work in a Mac.
AFAIK, Adaptec doesn't support OS X. If you know otherwise, I would greatly like to hear of it.
Atto ExpressSAS R348 does ($763.05USD)*. I want to avoid using SAS expanders, so that's why I've been looking for more than 8 ports. During a phone call, I was lead to believe that the R30F model ($1012.11USD)* would as well, as it is supposedly built from the R308/R348 design. However, the data sheet doesn't list OS X support for the R30F, so I sent an e-mail, and await a reply. Hopefully, it will, giving me another option.

The Areca ARC-1680ix series (ix12 & ix 16) do support OS X, and are fast. Benchmarks.
At a minimum, I could use the ARC-1680ix12 ($768.57USD)*, and the ARC-1680ix16 is $916.16USD*.

I was hoping to use an external drive enclosure, such at the EnhanceBOX/EditBOX 8 port MiniSAS for $549.99.

BTW, could you post the link to where you purchased the CalDigit? It might help others. The lowest price I've seen was ~$522USD.

Thanks,
NF.

*Prices and links are provantage.com, not manufacturer sites. If this helps.

 

[noushy]

Update from Caldigit

Nano, here is an update from Caldigit, regarding our little problem...

"CalDigit is a single vendor support company. We design, develop, and manufacture all our solutions. Everything you will need is inside the box. We test all our enclosures before we ship them out and if there is a problem with our systems, we will fix it because we know how. No other third party to point fingers to. By doing that, we have built a reputation and CalDigit products are known for the innovation, reliability, performance, overall features, and tech support.

We spend lots of money and time in R&D to bring superior RAID systems to the industry. The RAID Card is a very complex, powerful, and inexpensive solution. If it were open to third party enclosures, it would give us an enormous amount of tech support calls, it would hurt our reputation, and we would lose money. " from Gustavo Pierry, Caldigit Sales.

He did add that they were considering adjusting their prices on the HDElement units before they ship. I got a quote of $875 or so for a 1tb unit, which you could upgrade yourself. Keep me posted on any changes, and I will do the same.

Peace, Noushy