Caldigit RAID card

[nanofrog]

I managed to make another phone call to Atto. Officially, they won't endorse the ExpressSAS R30F for use under OS X. The iPass cable from the drive bays in a Mac is too short. It can apparently be overcome with a longer cable.

So the R30F is out.

Other solutions from Atto will. The ExpressSAS R348 (8int or 4int/4ext) and ExpressSAS R380 (8ext) will work with OS X officially, so it will be supported. Only 8 ports though, and I was trying to eliminate the need for SAS Expanders to increase drives. Even a more expensive RAID card seems to be less expensive than using expanders with an 8 port unit.
Atto also seems to be more expensive than most of its competitors.

Cost wise, the Areca ARC-1680ix series would compare with CalDigit at the reduced pricing you hinted at. I used the EnhanceBOX line as a comparison, as it's a nice solution, and is well supported by RAID card manufacturers.
(ex. ARC-1680ix12 + EnhanceBOX E8MS + cables/external bracket + 8*320GB enterprise drives vs. CalDigit + 2*HDElement@1TB+2*ext cable).
Both would be equivalent in ease of hardware installation. CalDigit and Atto may be a little less daunting on the software side, if someone isn't familiar with using a browser to access and manage the RAID system as Areca does.

So for similar money, I can get a better throughput from the Areca. The real downside is, technical support. They are a Taiwanese company, and I don't speak mandarin, so contact would likely be via e-mail. Thus far, all e-mail sent has been answered by one person, Kevin Wang. His responses are a little cryptic, making it hard to communicate. Atto and CalDigit have US phone numbers, and english (native) technical support. For me, this may not be much of a problem, but could for others.

 

[noushy]

Options

Nano, remember that the host raid controllers from Atto or Areca are true SAS/SATA controllers, they support SAS drives as well. That gives you the option to create some really fast smaller arrays for functions that require high IO like photoshop caching, boot disk functions, database functions, versus our standard 4 and 8 drive SATA arrays which do well for streaming video and video editing work that requires throughput more than high IO for smaller files. I have had great success with ATTO in the past (lots of their scsi cards and raid controllers) and they are well made. For me, SATA has done the trick, and if Caldigit drops the prices on their external units, I may stick with those for now. I do like the look and construction, just do not believe in paying through the nose for larger capacity drives. I want to stick with my recommendation of using the Caldigit card for internal SATA arrays only. At that price and setup it is a good performing card. Anyone looking for multi vendor support purchase the ATTO or ARECA cards instead and do not even look at this card if you are thinking SAS.

Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

Nano, remember that the host raid controllers from Atto or Areca are true SAS/SATA controllers, they support SAS drives as well. That gives you the option to create some really fast smaller arrays for functions that require high IO like photoshop caching, boot disk functions, database functions, versus our standard 4 and 8 drive SATA arrays which do well for streaming video and video editing work that requires throughput more than high IO for smaller files.

I've been looking at Atto and Areca specifically because they are SAS capable. Unfortunately, as I want more than 8 ports, Atto doesn't offer one that is supported in OS X.
I need to be able to use 12 to 16 drives, and speed for database, IO, and boot purposes. (Multiple arrays. ) I don't do anything video related. My only interest in going SATA at the moment, is drive cost.

As it happens, I found a really fast version of a SAS drive. Seagate ST3300656SS. Sustained throughput of 164MB/s! Expensive ($589USD), but I'm still considering it for a boot drive, though cost wise I may have to fall back on a WD Velociraptor. Though I'd love to use the Seagate SAS drives in the array, I know I can't afford it at present. At least having the card gives me the option to switch drives later, without having to replace it and the enclosure too.

I have had great success with ATTO in the past (lots of their scsi cards and raid controllers) and they are well made. For me, SATA has done the trick, and if Caldigit drops the prices on their external units, I may stick with those for now. I do like the look and construction, just do not believe in paying through the nose for larger capacity drives.

I've heard great things about Atto, but never used one personally. I've had some experience with Areca. Good cards. Fast. But as with anything, a caveat or two. In their case, tech support, warranty (1 year), and the fan cooling concerns me a little. I'm somewhat nervous that the fan will die, and the card go up in smoke, as the XScale is clocked at 1.2GHz (ARC-1680ix12 & ix16).

I want to stick with my recommendation of using the Caldigit card for internal SATA arrays only. At that price and setup it is a good performing card. Anyone looking for multi vendor support purchase the ATTO or ARECA cards instead and do not even look at this card if you are thinking SAS.

Noushy

For a simple to use SATA RAID, the CalDigit is a nice unit. Especially if they only want to start with 4 drives internally, and need Boot Camp. Drop Boot Camp requirements, and it opens up other possibilities, such as HighPoint's cards.

But it does have limitations, and the external enclosure issue is one that really put me off. Especially after being told this wasn't to be the case by their sales department on more than one occasion. Personal "pet-peeve" of mine I guess.

 

[noushy]

Quick update

Sorry for the double post, missed Nano's last post.

I purchased my card from AValive, www.avalive.com, the address is
http://www.avalive.com/CalDigit/CalDigit-RAID-Card/51518/productDetail.php
but you have to have them email you a quote to get the better price. They also have better prices for the external enclosures as well.

As for the pass through, it is a minisas to pci slot setup, and then another cable from the outside. However, you lose the internal ports then, but this is good if you just need 4 drives. The card sees this as 4 internal drives. There are vendors who sell the pc bracket with a minisas to minisas passthrough, then you just need a short minisas to minisas cable say 20 inches or so. This just brings the internal port to the outside via another slot.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

Sorry for the double post, missed Nano's last post.

I purchased my card from AValive, www.avalive.com, the address is
http://www.avalive.com/CalDigit/CalDigit-RAID-Card/51518/productDetail.php
but you have to have them email you a quote to get the better price. They also have better prices for the external enclosures as well.

Thanks.
The link should help a few people.
There is another thread started by phildog33, where he has acquired 8TB of storage in HDElements. He's posted benchmarks.

Read 444 MB/s
Write 302 MB/s

Not sure on the number of drives, but I'm assuming 8*1TB split into two enclosures.

As for the pass through, it is a minisas to pci slot setup, and then another cable from the outside. However, you lose the internal ports then, but this is good if you just need 4 drives. The card sees this as 4 internal drives. There are vendors who sell the pc bracket with a minisas to minisas passthrough, then you just need a short minisas to minisas cable say 20 inches or so. This just brings the internal port to the outside via another slot.

Peace,
Noushy

This is how I plan to set it up.
The Areca has a single external port, but there has been some confusion as to whether or not it functions under OS X. I think it will, but you can't boot from the external enclosures this way. Nor do I want to use the necessary SAS expanders with this port anyway. It's fine under windows/linux, and allows the card to access 128 drives. No way I'll need nearly that many.

So, route internal ports to become external it is.
Unless I find better prices, I'll get the external port bracket, miniSAS to mini SAS cables, and an additional fan-out cable from http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_adapters/.
I haven't really seen another vendor that carries all of it, so I'll just get it from a single vendor. Cheaper shipping perhaps. They don't have the best prices on their RAID cards though.
For those, I'll use http://www.provantage.com, as they have good prices, and a decent selection as well. The EnhanceBOX E8 MS (directron.com) comes with the external cables required, so that's a nice $100 saved.

Choice by process of elimination!

Keep us posted on your progress.
NF.

 

[noushy]

Misc. Parts

Nano, I really like provantage as well, I buy a lot of items from them for myself and my business. Also check out http://cooldrives.stores.yahoo.net/ they have a good deal of sata parts that can help you with your setup. I bought the pci bracket adapter from them. Also check this out http://www.span.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=16642&source=gbaseus&currency=USD

Noushy

 

[noushy]

New SATA Raid Cards

Nano, also check these out, as I think this is very interesting. It seems they do the OEM work for caldigit, and I wonder if (a) their products are better or will do the trick for us (b) can somehow use their original software or firmware to make the caldigit card work for our needs. Here is their link http://www.accusys.com.tw/eng/index.asp and check out the expeRAID line, they also write the software for caldigit. And here is newegg page with their line http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...actory=2143&SubCategory=410&SpeTabStoreType=1, the higher digit numbers contain a faster intel proc with higher io speeds.

BTW: I ordered the SAS brackets to have around just in case

Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

Nano, I really like provantage as well, I buy a lot of items from them for myself and my business. Also check out http://cooldrives.stores.yahoo.net/ they have a good deal of sata parts that can help you with your setup. I bought the pci bracket adapter from them. Also check this out http://www.span.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=16642&source=gbaseus&currency=USD

Noushy

Noushy,
Thanks for the links.
Vendors with reasonable prices, and great selections are always welcome!
BTW, If I order anything from span.com, would it be correct to assume the VAT would be excluded on shipments to the US?

Nano, also check these out, as I think this is very interesting. It seems they do the OEM work for caldigit, and I wonder if (a) their products are better or will do the trick for us (b) can somehow use their original software or firmware to make the caldigit card work for our needs. Here is their link http://www.accusys.com.tw/eng/index.asp and check out the expeRAID line, they also write the software for caldigit. And here is newegg page with their line http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...actory=2143&SubCategory=410&SpeTabStoreType=1, the higher digit numbers contain a faster intel proc with higher io speeds.

BTW: I ordered the SAS brackets to have around just in case

Noushy

The Accusys products is a nice find!
I'd agree, it does look as if they did the engineering and manufacturing for CalDigit.

Now I'll have to check those out. I'll get in touch with costabunny, and see if she would update a wiki page she created. Covers hardware odds and ends, including RAID card vendors.

Thanks. Keep us posted if possible.

NF.

 

[nanofrog]

Noushy:

I went and took a really good look at the Accusys line.

The ACS-61000 (4 or 8 port models)
The 4 port model could work really well as an entry level 4 drive system, especially at $280USD.
XScale IOP333 @ 500 Mhz, built in DDR2-400 ECC memory, but amount not listed.

The ACS-61010 (12/16 port) models seem to be what the CalDigit was based on.
XScale IOP333 @ 500MHz, but the memory is upgradeable (1GB max). Slightly more expensive than the CalDigit. $550USD for the 12 port, and $660USD for the 16 port. Then add $100 - 165USD for the adapters and miniSAS cables.
Not a bargain, but the upgradeable memory and (possible) 3rd party enclosure capability may offset this.

The ACS-61100 series (12/16/24 port) seems really interesting.
Xscale IOP341 @ 800MHz, it should outperform the CalDigit.
Memory is upgradeable to 2GB (DDR2-667 ECC)
$620USD for the 12 port, $730USD for the 16 port. Add the adapters and cabling. Final costs would be slightly less than the SAS models offered by competitors.

Not bad, especially if someone doesn't need SAS.

 

[redherring]

John Flowers over on Lifezero.org has just posted details of his $1420 4TB RAID
with 430MB/s write 450MB/s read here:

http://lifezero.typepad.com/blog/2008/10/super-fast-4tb-raid-for-under-2k.html

Using a PROavio chassis and rocketraid card.

 

[nanofrog]

John Flowers over on Lifezero.org has just posted details of his $1420 4TB RAID
with 430MB/s write 450MB/s read here:

http://lifezero.typepad.com/blog/2008/10/super-fast-4tb-raid-for-under-2k.html

Using a PROavio chassis and rocketraid card.

Not a bad solution , but if you need to use the RAID card under Boot Camp, the HighPoint won't work. It uses different firmware for each OS, so it will work in one or the other, but not both.

 

[joaoferro37]

4TB RAID 5 for less than $1,000

I got this 4 bay trayless SATA enclosure with 4 port SATA controller card for $399.

http://www.amazon.com/RAIDstream-po...4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225216459&sr=8-4

Bought
4 Hitachi SATA hard drive from here for $139

http://www.homestudiodirect.com/hitachi-deskstar-7k1000-1000-sata-hard-drive-32mb-cache-p-712.html

Total less than $995.

I also discovered the controller card is as same as G-Speed ES, I loaded G-Speed's driver software and it works totally fine, thus I compared both card and found out, they are the same.

 

[nanofrog]

I got this 4 bay trayless SATA enclosure with 4 port SATA controller card for $399.

http://www.amazon.com/RAIDstream-po...4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225216459&sr=8-4

Bought
4 Hitachi SATA hard drive from here for $139

http://www.homestudiodirect.com/hitachi-deskstar-7k1000-1000-sata-hard-drive-32mb-cache-p-712.html

Total less than $995.

I also discovered the controller card is as same as G-Speed ES, I loaded G-Speed's driver software and it works totally fine, thus I compared both card and found out, they are the same.

Not bad for what it is.

160MB/s throughput for RAID 5 might be slower than some people need, and they might also need/want the ability for more than 4 drives in the array.

 

[joaoferro37]

Not bad at all, and since it is a 4 port card, I can get another one from here
http://www.amazon.com/RAIDstream-En...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225239381&sr=8-6

Will gain any speed if I have two units? Saying have two raidstream quad, 8 drives under one RAID set?
Aoccording to G-tech, I should have 386MB/s Write, 426 MB/s Read under RAID 0and 335MB/s Write, 376 MB/s write under RAID 5

 

[nanofrog]

Not bad at all, and since it is a 4 port card, I can get another one from here
http://www.amazon.com/RAIDstream-En...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225239381&sr=8-6

Will gain any speed if I have two units? Saying have two raidstream quad, 8 drives under one RAID set?
Aoccording to G-tech, I should have 386MB/s Write, 426 MB/s Read under RAID 0and 335MB/s Write, 376 MB/s write under RAID 5

Once you get into 8 drives, you can do better for the money. Raid controller, external enclosure, and 8 drives can be had for around the same $$$. If you add ~$200 or so, the speed will be much better. Say 600MB/s in RAID 5, 800MB/s in RAID 0 or so.

 

[joaoferro37]

Once you get into 8 drives, you can do better for the money. Raid controller, external enclosure, and 8 drives can be had for around the same $$$. If you add ~$200 or so, the speed will be much better. Say 600MB/s in RAID 5, 800MB/s in RAID 0 or so.

Does it mean, if I get two raidstream quad + one 4 port SATA controller card, I should be able to handle 10 bit uncompress hd footage?

 

[nanofrog]

Does it mean, if I get two raidstream quad + one 4 port SATA controller card, I should be able to handle 10 bit uncompress hd footage?

OK. Taking another look at that unit, it doesn't have a RAID controller built in, and only 1 eSATA port for connection. Easy, but it will cost you some potential in speed. (Really just a Port Multiplier box).

The controller selected would have to run 4 drives/port. Other solutions would allow you to run 1 drive/port, so you gain speed. Usually other very useful features as well.

So lets assume your controller card selection would be able to acheive 160MB/s per box, then you could see 300-320MB/s from it. This card makes the difference. Also keep in mind, that this method of controller would be used with software to create the RAID array, so there is a CPU task added to the computer. Keep in mind, as you fill the drive capacity, the speed slows down.

True hardware RAID wouldn't use the CPU at all. The card handles everything, combined with the performance benefit from 1 drive/port, it just tends to be a better solution for similar funds.

Hope this helps.

 

[joaoferro37]

nanofrog,

What if I build my own, here is the components list.
Do you think it is a good idea?

The HBA I have in mind is the Areca arc-1220ML which I believe is using intel xscale iop341?
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/arc1220ml-8port-pcie-raid-controller-profile-256mb-p-616.html

and get 2 of this sata/sas drive bay (it is a 5 bay and I can leave one bay as a "cold" spare drive) and it is trayless.
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/3x525-5x35-sata20-hotswap-backplane-raid-cage-p-506.html

and the SATA backplane
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/dual-mini-device-adapter-p-572.html

also
to connect the backplane to the drive bay using a internal mini sas to sata
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/internal-mini-internal-sata-cable-feet-p-510.html

Figured out the cost will be $303 without HBA and $529 for the card, total for around 800 dolalrs to get a 10-2 bay mini SAS RAID 5 with IOP 341 HBA and all modulized.
Or should I use a ARC-1680 card to utilize my macpro internal sata HDD bay and use one external 4 bay mini sas enclosure.

Oh, as for Hard drive, Hitachi 1TB for $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145167



The goal is not only to build a diy RAID media vault to capture HD footage but also someting affordable and flexible.

Please advice.

 

[nanofrog]

nanofrog,

What if I build my own, here is the components list.
Do you think it is a good idea?

The HBA I have in mind is the Areca arc-1220ML which I believe is using intel xscale iop341?
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/arc1220ml-8port-pcie-raid-controller-profile-256mb-p-616.html

It uses the IOP 333, not the IOP 341. Clock speed not specified.
Though the site listing shows Mac OS X driver support, Areca's website doesn't.

For PCIe SATA controllers, this range uses the IOP 341 @ 800MHz, and is Mac compliant.

Expensive though, and you can get more for your $$$ going the ARC-1680 series route. The most basic units use IOP 348 @ 800MHz (Low Profile cards, 256MB cache), and bump to an IOP 348 @ 1200MHz, with 512MB cache, some even upgradeable.

and get 2 of this sata/sas drive bay (it is a 5 bay and I can leave one bay as a "cold" spare drive) and it is trayless.
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/3x525-5x35-sata20-hotswap-backplane-raid-cage-p-506.html

If using a Mac Pro, No, these won't work. If it's a PC, they need 3 * 5.25" drive bays, so you'd need a big case with 6 available 5.25" bays.

and the SATA backplane
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/dual-mini-device-adapter-p-572.html

These little beauty's work nicely with routing internal ports to an external enclosure.
They're offered in 1, 2, and 4 port flavors.

also
to connect the backplane to the drive bay using a internal mini sas to sata
http://www.homestudiodirect.com/internal-mini-internal-sata-cable-feet-p-510.html

Yes, that cable is used internally to connect from an iPass connector on the RAID card to 4 drives. External drive boxes usually have these in them already connected to the drive trays. Useful if you're wanting to locate more than 4 drives internally on a Mac Pro, and needed for a PC.

Due to lack of information about your system and intended install, please bear with the following.

To connect an internal port from the RAID controller to the internal to external port adapter, you need 1 of these per iPass (SFF-8087) connector.

From the adapter to the external enclosure, it will depend on the enclosure itself.
MiniSAS to MiniSAS (external connections)
MiniSAS to MultiLane Infiniband (external connections)

Figured out the cost will be $303 without HBA and $529 for the card, total for around 800 dolalrs to get a 10-2 bay mini SAS RAID 5 with IOP 341 HBA and all modulized.
Or should I use a ARC-1680 card to utilize my macpro internal sata HDD bay and use one external 4 bay mini sas enclosure.

Oh, as for Hard drive, Hitachi 1TB for $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145167



The goal is not only to build a diy RAID media vault to capture HD footage but also someting affordable and flexible.

Please advice.

The cost will need to be re-evaluated, as the card you listed doesn't list as applicable to Mac. Nor the drive bays.

From the information I've been able to gather, the ARC-1680 series is a better way to go. It does work with a Mac, and gives you more options and performance for the same $$$ when compared to the IOP 341 SATA units listed above. They're also flexible. From as few as 8 drives to 28 (24 port 1680ix24 also has an additional 4 port external connection).

You could take a look at the ARC-1680LP, 1680ix8, 1680ix12 for starters.

provantage.com carries quite a bit of the Areca, and other gear. You might want to take a look, as I've not seen better pricing from others.

Sorry if this gets confusing, but I do hope it helps.

 

[joaoferro37]

I will contact them and dig out more details.
Once I got things sorted out, I will post the final product pictures and my testing so yuo guyz can see.

 

[nanofrog]

Nano, also check these out, as I think this is very interesting. It seems they do the OEM work for caldigit, and I wonder if (a) their products are better or will do the trick for us (b) can somehow use their original software or firmware to make the caldigit card work for our needs. Here is their link http://www.accusys.com.tw/eng/index.asp and check out the expeRAID line, they also write the software for caldigit. And here is newegg page with their line http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...actory=2143&SubCategory=410&SpeTabStoreType=1, the higher digit numbers contain a faster intel proc with higher io speeds.

BTW: I ordered the SAS brackets to have around just in case

Noushy

Hi Noushy.

I've recently been in contact with another member (phildog33) using the CalDigit RAID card, and one of the software guys from CalDigit.

Massive issues, have occured, that cost the data on the array (RAID 5) multiple times. He's gone through hoops with CalDigit's tech support and engineers trying to get it solved, to no avail. They've done their best, but it didn't help. An unreliable RAID is useless. (Lost Partition Tables, power switch issues...) It gets into the details. One of the main issues is attempting to create an array from a mixture of internal and external drives into a single array. OS drive was separate. But given this seems to be aimed at DV editing, this setup would be expected without clear notice not to do so. (This may change of course.)

So at this point, I'm leery of recommending that specific card from CalDigit, or the Accusys line ATM without further information.

Perhaps you've a different physical setup, and have managed to avoid similar issues?

It may help others, so thanks for any info you can offer.

 

[ekwipt]

So what's the best solution for Raid 5 for video editing, i must say a lot of people use the caldigit raid card with out problem, though this is very alarming

 

[nanofrog]

So what's the best solution for Raid 5 for video editing, i must say a lot of people use the caldigit raid card with out problem, though this is very alarming

In a phone conversation, phildog33 indicated he would draft out a post on what he's dealt with while using the CalDigit RAID card. Not sure when, so it may be a few days yet.

The question I posed to Noushy, is applicable to anyone using this particular card.

So please, anyone using the CalDigit RAID card, please post your setup and expiriences.

It could help figure out the mess, and bring some of the specific issues to light. Hopefully, this would help other members who already have it avoid the same situations, or others still considering this card.

Thanks.

 

[Rick Here]

Apple RAID card question

So you mention the IOP 333 processor on the CalDigit card. I have the Apple RAID card, what processor does it use?
People have posted that the Apple RAID card has a 320MB limit?
Does the CalDigit card have this same limitation?

 

[carestudio]

So please, anyone using the CalDigit RAID card, please post your setup and expiriences.

I installed caldigitRAID card onto my MacPro back to Aug. It's been 2-3 months. It's been working like a gem out the starting gate. I have OS drive in the first bay, all my photos and raw files in the rest of RAID 5 drive.

MacPro 2008
OS10.5.5
CalDigit RAID card
HDElement 4TB - backorder