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These things are going to become even more specialized. Look at the Apple Watch. Crazy tiny everything.
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Good luck repairing your Apple Watch
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Good luck finding a specialist to fix your Apple Watch and future tiny Apple devices.
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Good luck repairing your tiny Apple Watch.
I find it interesting you replied to four posts and banged on about the Apple Watch; Apple makes other things that can be repaired too. BTW Apple aren't superhuman geniuses, if a human being working at Apple can repair something chances are there's another another human being not working at Apple that can make themselves a living repairing said same thing.
 
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Just for clarification: It would make more sense to you if you read the actual reply of the poster that I replied to Previously. Which was another forum member stating that Apple does not sell OEM iPhone parts, when in fact, the Sim tray is indeed a part they sell. Also, I never interjected “repair”, you did. I was specifically referring to the Sim tray being a “Part”, Which in fact it is.

I'd like to see the reaction of people if Apple would make you buy a new phone just because you lost or damaged your SIM tray. If Apple can sell SIM trays, can also sell other OEM parts no problem. ;)
 
I'd like to see the reaction of people if Apple would make you buy a new phone just because you lost or damaged your SIM tray. If Apple can sell SIM trays, can also sell other OEM parts no problem. ;)

I actually dented my Sim card tray approximately a year or so ago and I called Apple to see if they could send me a replacement. Originally they were going to send me one for free, and then the representative came back on the line and they charged me a total of $13 for the Sim card tray and five dollars for shipping. But I was fortunate to have the opportunity to at least purchase the Sim card tray, being I had no other alternative at the time, even as expensive as it was.
 
This is great, and everyone around the world will profit from it.
 
While I understand the interest in the idea, this will be poorly executed.

What's next? Allow repair laptops to the component level?
If manufacturers will be required to provide every part to replace that will only drive the cost up.

I think Apple to go around this will say device needs to be repaired at Apple or authorized center. Other repairs will void all warranties.

In Europe, we had a similar issue with cars. If you dared to service your car in a non-official car shop, brands used to void guarantees. Courts eventually ruled that services and repairs provided by officially recognized third parties (car shops recognized as such with permits and paying taxes for their activity), were to be considered as good as the ones provided by brands themselves if they are done similarly (using the same or equivalent components, done at the right time and using accepted operations). If you change the engine oil in a proper car shop at the right time, using the appropriate oil and it is done following the car manufacturer instructions, the car manufacturer has to honor the guarantee something should happen.
 
In the end, all this will mean is more warranties voided due to shoddy repairs.
Well, DUH, tell us something we don't know. Stop looking at this from the point of view that it only affects devices under warranty. There are a lot of devices that are no longer under warrant. Regardless of state of warranty, you only have one choice to have your device repaired. This is the problem. This is what this bill is about. Who in the right mind would take their device other than to the manufacture for warranty repair? The whole thought process is just asinine and if that is your only excuse to why you object to this bill, then you need to WAKE UP. Stop drinking the juice the give you. This is about giving users/owners the RIGHT to CHOOSE....If you want to choose to always take you device back to it's manufacture for repair (OUT OF WARRANTY), you can do that, but if I or anyone else want to take it to someone else that has both the OEM Parts and instructions to do the same repair, for probably much less, then they can choose that also, and if I or anyone else want to fix our own device (OUT OF WARRANTY), then we can buy OEM Parts and Instructions to do the repair, then we can choose that. Again, this is about giving YOU, the consumer, a CHOICE, in which they don't have.
 
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Someone that has an accident with their phone? Someone that drops it in water? Someone that breaks the screen? I was not objecting to the bill, so please calm down. I was posting an analogous case that eventually did not work for the manufacturers.
 
Sure thing, while they will kindly walk you to buy a new one. How smart, amirite? ;)

Well, if you don't want to buy a new one you can just give it to them to recycle. Not like your local Waste Removal Inc can efficiently recycle, well, any discarded electronics. The point is recyclability, and Apple will do a fine job of that for you.
 
Can't understand why a consumer would reject the right to fix an object of his property. It's like believing that market will do its job and everything will be fine. Sometimes this is not the case. Come on, there are currently only three mobile operating systems: iOS, Android and Windows Phone; the latter has something like 1% of the market. The consumer can't even choose which software to use. There is no hardware or software anymore. There is only something called "a product from an ecosystem". Once your "ecosystem license" expires, you must buy another product, even if its software or hardware is 100% functional. This is crazy and we can't call it competition.

If you remind the Internet Explorer case in the 90s, you'll remind that Microsoft deliberately produced incompatible technologies to achieve monopoly: VBScript, ActiveX, the non-standard JScript and a HTML parser that behaved totally anti-standard. When law entered the game, it allowed market to become really competitive, allowing us to have a large offer of compatible browsers: UC Browser, Opera, Firefox, Chrome, Safari and even Internet Explorer/MS Edge - and PC users can choose any of them, but this is not a reality to mobile users (yet).

In short: regulation is sometimes good to the market as it can bring the competition back.
 
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Nope, you throw it away and buy new. Same place we are now. Or you take it to someone qualified to repair and save some money and the environment. No slope whatsoever.
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The number one issue with phones is batteries. There is no need for the outrageous price apple charges for batteries that have a fixed life.

The number one and two issues with laptops are battery and disk drive or SSD. Both have limited life and both should be user replaceable.

Excellent points, particularly with the battery. Would I be on the fence if this regulation specifically called out "User Replaceable Components" to include batteries, memory and data storage? Probable not.
 
My first Mac (that I owned) was a Job's Mac- the PowerMac G4 circa 2001 or so. It had a simple latch on the side that one could pull and drop down a whole side on which the circuit board was attached (didn't even have to turn one regular or proprietary:mad: screw, no suction cups, no glue guns, etc).

PowerMac_G4_MDD_open.jpg

This made it about as easy as possible to do all kinds of repairs/replacements/upgrades... easier than I'd ever seen in any kind of computer before. Even great-old Amiga 2000's required turning screws and sliding panels.

Amen. I was astounded over my 2005 Mac Pro. Being able to swap drives in five seconds was utterly amazing to me. Anybody who’s heaved a Mac Pro around knows that lightness and thinness was possibly the very last thing that was worried about with that boat anchor. But did I mind, since the function provided was superior to any PC I’d ever had? Only .001% of the time.

So I'll buy that Jobs had such a philosophy at some point but not seemingly the Jobs that ruled this roost when I first plugged in. Generally and IMO, that period seemed to be about delivering consumer value much more so than squeezing ever nickel out of us in every possible way... including post-warranty repair work.

And most importantly, customer value centered on function and user interface, not fashion and making things light, airy, and minimalist as possible, including the UI which I frequently find to be difficult and unintuitive to use (all the flat design and minimalist, thin, light-grey text & lines) even 5 years after ios7's completely unnecessary reinvention. Apple has so lost the script and has me barely clinging on as a customer only because I still consider android and Windows to be less desirable options. I can’t be alone.
 
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Well, if you don't want to buy a new one you can just give it to them to recycle. Not like your local Waste Removal Inc can efficiently recycle, well, any discarded electronics. The point is recyclability, and Apple will do a fine job of that for you.

Sure thing. I however left the Apple Store with my iMac 27" mid 2011 (top of the line: i7, 32GB, SSD and all) that Apple kindly wanted to charge 700 EUR to repair/replace the toast GPU. Back at home, I disassembled the iMac completely and I put for sale all the parts on ebay. Made quite a nice profit and bought/built myself a nice custom PC.

For the Price of "replacing" the toasted AMD 6970 2GB MXM, I got myself a GTX 1080 watercooled for my new PC. I also left completely the macOS ecosystem and I won't be looking back. Win10 is "good enough".

Attempting to charge 700 EUR for a MXM GPU from 2011... takes "courage".
 
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I'm all for the free market, but there have to be protections against scams, and this is one: Selling something that people expect will work much longer than it actually does. And no, putting a little warning in the EULA isn't going to fix that.
Scams? For real? Consumer devices with Li-ion cells have been around for more than a couple of decades. Some have been easily user replaceable and some have not. People are WELL aware of the life of these things at this point. When making the purchase, we all have plenty of opportunity to evaluate the physical devices and make an informed decision. Stop with the story that the government must protect the little stupid people.
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The government shouldn't be saying precisely what something costs: fair enough. No central planning!

Here is my question to you. What power/right should ICE have to confiscate batteries if customs duties are paid on them in a free market voluntary transaction with a vendor overseas? Under what circumstances?
Very little if any. That's my point. Unaccountable government agencies screwing up... everyone's answer... more government and more unaccountable agencies. Brilliant.
 
Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.
You take it to a qualified non-apple/ non-vendor/ non-OEM service center and have them fix it for you. You need not to do the repairs on your own.
 
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Have I missed all the news stories where Apple, Samsung, VW, or any other company is having people arrested for repairing personal property? What specific law is keeping owners from working on their personal property or anyone else's for that matter?

All this legislation can do is (1) make Apple (or some other company) somehow directly or indirectly responsible for other people's or company's actions. I don't think that is a good thing. (2) It can force Apple (or some other company) to operate an OEM parts business, for which they will be immediately condemned for the high price of the parts. Connected to this and probably not a big deal to Apple (because they have the cash to figure it out or hire people who already have figured it out) but possibly a business ending issue for smaller manufacturers, is companies will now ether have to outsource the OEM business or develop it in-house in a way that is at least revenue neutral. Again, this is unlikely to impact Apple, but what about when FitBit is forced to become an OEM provider. That particular company is already struggling this quarter. A new law forcing them to expand into a new business that they may have no desire to be in and presumably no specific expertise in could be catastrophic.

Many people on this board have compared this idea to automobiles. Which I think is a great comparison. People since the early days of car sales have weighed repair cost and operational quality when deciding from which companies to purchase automobiles. Consumer choice is what has made cars more repairable, not legislation. The same thing works here. I seriously doubt anyone considering an Agera is weighing the cost of replacing the transmission in their purchase decision. Same with Gulfstream customers. So why can't California or any other "Right to Repair" state stop treating companies like a non-optional business partner for all Americans. There are so few companies that consumers are legally forced to deal with that it is negligible in practice. The companies that do have that distinction, have it as a result of legislation or government contracts.

Let the consumer force Apple to make products more repair friendly by deciding to only do business with repair friendly companies. If consumers really want a repair friendly smartphone there is nothing that will keep a company from making one, unless a government passes a law or regulation forbidding it. I suspect the reason is that not enough consumers care about "Right to Repair" when choosing companies to do business with. It seems that "Right to Repair" legislation assumes that since the consumer is simply too stupid to care about the right things the government will force the businesses (large and small) to care for them.

Don't get me wrong, all things being equal, it would be nice to be able to do my own repairs with OEM parts. I just don't care enough and I'd rather Apple focus on new products and bug fixes. To hell with repairability, dump more resources into AR glasses. :)

TLDR: Free market will address this if consumers care about it.
 
Sure thing. I however left the Apple Store with my iMac 27" mid 2011 (top of the line: i7, 32GB, SSD and all) that Apple kindly wanted to charge 700 EUR to repair/replace the toast GPU. Back at home, I disassembled the iMac completely and I put for sale all the parts on ebay. Made quite a nice profit and bought/built myself a nice custom PC.

For the Price of "replacing" the toasted AMD 6970 2GB MXM, I got myself a GTX 1080 watercooled for my new PC. I also left completely the macOS ecosystem and I won't be looking back. Win10 is "good enough".

Attempting to charge 700 EUR for a MXM GPU from 2011... takes "courage".
Perfect example of the market and your freedom to choose taking care of things. Because of the policies and prices levied by one company, you went with another. No need for government intervention or any of the unintended consequences and costs to be imposed on everyone else.
 
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Sure thing. I however left the Apple Store with my iMac 27" mid 2011 (top of the line: i7, 32GB, SSD and all) that Apple kindly wanted to charge 700 EUR to repair/replace the toast GPU. Back at home, I disassembled the iMac completely and I put for sale all the parts on ebay. Made quite a nice profit and bought/built myself a nice custom PC.

For the Price of "replacing" the toasted AMD 6970 2GB MXM, I got myself a GTX 1080 watercooled for my new PC. I also left completely the macOS ecosystem and I won't be looking back. Win10 is "good enough".

Attempting to charge 700 EUR for a MXM GPU from 2011... takes "courage".

This is exactly what is supposed to happen. Apple didn't deliver a service or product that met your expectations or standards. You therefore decided to find a new company/s to do business with, and "won't be looking back". Apple suffers because they have lost you as a customer. If the quality of the product declines to the point where more costumers are put in a similar situation then they will lose more, at which point they will likely change some portion of the process.
 
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Scams? For real? Consumer devices with Li-ion cells have been around for more than a couple of decades. Some have been easily user replaceable and some have not. People are WELL aware of the life of these things at this point. When making the purchase, we all have plenty of opportunity to evaluate the physical devices and make an informed decision. Stop with the story that the government must protect the little stupid people.
The batteries don't simply have a certain lifespan. It varies hugely, and by the time it randomly fails, you're out of warranty. You sometimes get a lemon (manufacturing flaw?), and when you do, it shouldn't be your fault. Things are even more uncertain you're buying a used phone and have no idea what to expect of the battery, and that's bad for both the buyer and the seller.

Apple especially needs to pay for this after the iPhone 6 throttling. It doesn't take a complicated gov't regulation like this stupid bill.
 
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Perfect example of the market and your freedom to choose taking care of things. Because of the policies and prices levied by one company, you went with another. No need for government intervention or any of the unintended consequences and costs to be imposed on everyone else.

Fortunately for me, I was not tied up to use Final Cut Pro or any other Apple "exclusive" software.

Some other unlucky folk are however too deep entangled into Apple's software web to "afford" learning the Adobe suite or any other equivalent program (if exists) under Windows. What about these people? Too bad for them with your way of thinking. ;)

The old era of Apple devices easy to repair and maintain is long gone. The iMac Pro makes me laugh hysterically.
  • GPU soldered to LogicBoard.
  • RAM Upgrade? Visit Apple Store or a certified shop.
  • Hard Drive Upgrade? Proprietary Apple. Tough luck!
Some poor souls at the edge of jumping ship, still are waiting for the upcoming Mac Pro, which in theory will make user upgrades and maintenance "easy". Apple better nail this down real good because for most there won't be a turning back once they jump to Windows PC. ;)
 
The batteries don't simply have a certain lifespan. It varies hugely, and by the time it randomly fails, you're out of warranty. You sometimes get a lemon (manufacturing flaw?), and when you do, it shouldn't be your fault. Things are even more uncertain you're buying a used phone and have no idea what to expect of the battery, and that's bad for both the buyer and the seller.

Apple especially needs to pay for this after the BS iPhone 6 throttling.
I’ve had bad experiences with products. Unless the companies I bought them from stand behind them, I am through with that brand/company. My suggestion would be to confidently walk away until you feel the product suits your needs again and/or you regain trust.

I think the throttling maneuver is total BS. Do I think they need to “pay” for it? Sure. Do I think some government regulation is the means to that end? No way. Especially if it punishes the industry (and consumers IMO) as a whole. There has been plenty of coverage and negative press on the issue. People need to punish them with reduced sales. This is not an industry in need of government break up.
 
Fortunately for me, I was not tied up to use Final Cut Pro or any other Apple "exclusive" software.

Some other unlucky folk are however too deep entangled into Apple's software web to "afford" learning the Adobe suite or any other equivalent program (if exists) under Windows. What about these people? Too bad for them with your way of thinking. ;)

The old era of Apple devices easy to repair and maintain is long gone. The iMac Pro makes me laugh hysterically.
  • GPU soldered to LogicBoard.
  • RAM Upgrade? Visit Apple Store or a certified shop.
  • Hard Drive Upgrade? Proprietary Apple. Tough luck!
Some poor souls at the edge of jumping ship, still are waiting for the upcoming Mac Pro, which in theory will make user upgrades and maintenance "easy". Apple better nail this down real good because for most there won't be a turning back once they jump to Windows PC. ;)
Yes, too bad for those people. Life isn’t always fair. Some decisions pan out and are rewarding and some cause heartache and are perhaps disastrous. But please, take responsibility. Let’s not pretend that Apple’s history with proprietary systems, software, ports, etc are not well known. The decision to jump into that system was not forced upon anyone. If the product portfolio has a negative impact on business or personal use, it’s time to make another decision and take ownership of that. Does the government or you or I have to make these people whole again?

And your entire last paragraph makes my point.

BTW, I am not defending Apple in particular. I personally would like to see many of the changes people are advocating in this thread. I just won’t sell my principles to make that happen.
 
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Yes, too bad for those people. Life isn’t always fair. Some decisions pan out and are rewarding and some cause heartache and are perhaps disastrous. But please, take responsibility. Let’s not pretend that Apple’s history with proprietary systems, software, ports, etc are not well known. The decision to jump into that system was not forced upon anyone. If the product portfolio has a negative impact on business or personal use, it’s time to make another decision and take ownership of that. Does the government or you or I have to make these people whole again?

And your entire last paragraph makes my point.

BTW, I am not defending Apple in particular. I personally would like to see many of the changes people are advocating in this thread. I just won’t sell my principles to make that happen.

You won't make me change my mind about the "Right to repair" bill. Microsoft is following Apple's lead on the malpractice to glue everything up and make it irreparable. (AKA, Surface laptop).

Same goes for John Deere locking up repairs at software level and folk having to rely on Ukranian hacked software to make work again their repaired machines.
 
I’ve had bad experiences with products. Unless the companies I bought them from stand behind them, I am through with that brand/company. My suggestion would be to confidently walk away until you feel the product suits your needs again and/or you regain trust.

I think the throttling maneuver is total BS. Do I think they need to “pay” for it? Sure. Do I think some government regulation is the means to that end? No way. Especially if it punishes the industry (and consumers IMO) as a whole. There has been plenty of coverage and negative press on the issue. People need to punish them with reduced sales. This is not an industry in need of government break up.
The issue is they usually don't develop a bad reputation because the problems only affect a few users. Nobody really cares if a few get screwed over, but you care if it's you. Hence why without any regulation, they've been doing the same thing for years, getting worse if anything, and at the end of the day, people are throwing away devices that shouldn't need to be tossed.
 

Well done, as I hang my head in embarrassment.

I certainly don't think that the government should be doing this. This is IMO a result of corrupt politics. The detail that might make this exist in the grey is, that this business was not raided for repairing Apple products, but for scamming and/or misleading customers. At least that was the justification (maybe sincerely the case?). If that turns out to be false then I would think the business can certainly sue the government for damages. I don't think that Apple should be involved at all, it is not there duty or place to protect consumers from themselves or other businesses. Local law enforcement and the DA should be involved, if the business was indeed trying to pass itself off as providing manufacture authorized repairs.

EDIT: The sourced story in the techdirt article certainly makes the raid seem more about false advertising and misleading customers. Still, unless the Apple people on site were asked to join by law enforcement to validate the authenticity of the parts, they shouldn't have anything to do with it.
 
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