California to Introduce 'Right to Repair' Bill Requiring Smartphone Manufacturers to Offer Repair Info and Parts

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Nobody bothered to think about how governments benefit from this. Of course they want to make the inner workings of the devices more transparent. That way they can figure out how to hack it easier and faster. No thanks.

This is not about that. This is not about exposing secrets, weakening personal privacy or creating hacking channels.

This is about the government doing it's job (for a change)... that is, looking out for the people (consumers). This is about the government noticing potentially monopoly-like scenarios and flexing some legal muscle to press for competition in those areas to mitigate monopoly-like exploitation potentials. Our system- capitalism- actually depends on robust competition to work well. When too few are too dominant of anything, capitalism checks & balances break down thoroughly favoring those few (or one) over the consumers.

What they may get out of this is enough re-election contributions from corporations to vote down this kind of law or let it die in committee. But occasionally, the gov actually does the job of looking out for the public.

If we want to imagine conspiracies, let's be sure to do it the other way too. Why would a big, very profitable company like Apple and similar be so against this kind of law? Look through the PR spin and think about the money. How much money is there in complete control over parts such that any repairs pretty much have to be done through 1 company?

 

[gavroche]

I am surprised no one has come out on Apple's side on MR yet..

This isn't an Apple issue. Wouldn't this apply to any and all consumer products? How would the apply such a law to only one company. And from Apples side, isn't even much if an issue. If it's under warranty, they fix for free anyway. If not under warranty... well, shouldn't matter to them if you take it elsewhere to repair. Hell, we do that now anyway for most scenarios.

 

[driveparty]

What's next? Allow repair laptops to the component level?

Aaaand? What's wrong with this? It actually happens for years. Third-party repair shops are made to source components from "donor" devices only due to apple's will. And even such a 2nd-hand components give those laptops a new life. 'Cause there's nonsense to pay apple $800-$900 for motherboard for NB that costs some $500 itself on ebay. But $100-$200 repair looks reasonable and people do that all around the world.
At last, but not any least, according to your logic, car manufacturers also should allow no 3rd-party repairs nor any spares ("components") sales. So, you have the Chevy logo on your ave, and it's like you have some pump or radiator bleeding or just a broken hose. And you kinda come to your loved GM dealear and ask for repair, and he charges you some $4000 for new engine – that's what you argue for?

If manufacturers will be required to provide every part to replace that will only drive the cost up.

Ooh, really? Isn't it that apple does not manufacture 99% of phone/tablet/mac components they build it with? For ios products they only manufacture the CPUs, not even the ram soldered on its top. Anything else marked with apple logo is made on apple's customization requests to the OEMs. Not only apple does it, even you can as long as you order some 1000+ qty. I mean it, like STM32 MCU is as cheap as $1-$2 for such a quantites, and they offer such a customizations for direct orders as large as 1000+ count, so it will cost you just $1000-$2000 for your own [internally] customized microcontroller with your ##$#@# Chevy logo on it!

Other repairs will void all warranties.

Customers with out of warranty failures like water damages or just expired don't care about it. Try better to earn some apple coins )
[doublepost=1520489144][/doublepost]

I happen to have skills in this area so it doesn't bother me; but I wouldn't want to see someone just try and wing it, likely they'll break things worse.

I wonder if you have any skills and think this way same time. I've replaced PMICs on my iphone 6 & 6s and did some simplier repairs like "tristar" replacement or just a broken filter in the LCD back light circuit. Not a big deal, though.
Finally, if you have your own hands growing out from your tailbone, it doesn't mean any person out there has it same.

The reality is, Apple's fee for most repairs is not that bad, typically about $100.

Pure lie. They do not provide ANY motherboard repairs at all, only phone replacements for such an out of warranty cases. And it costs almost as high as a new phone.

 

[shareef777]

But repair shops can order genuine OEM parts from the manufacturer to fix the car.

That’s what this legislation is about. Having Apple sell OEM parts so we can get our devices repaired to original quality. Though apple’s quality likely means the OEM parts will be much more expensive then what 3rd parties use today.

 

[nStyle]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

Not sure how far this convo went, but no, it's actually not (a slippery slope). This has nothing to do with a warranty (it seems like you're alluding to this). This does not give you permission to mess up your phone with no repercussions. Apple can still tell if you've opened the device and they can deny you service as they see fit. It's the same as if you attempted to fix literally ANYTHING yourself but failed - whoever you take it to next will just do what is necessary based on its current state.

The greatest thing that can come out of this IMO is not so much the repair guides (as plenty of other excellent documentation always comes out) but the availability of OEM parts. There is so much trash floating around Amazon on eBay claiming to be OEM but actually isn't at all. It's such an unnecessarily confusing ordeal for the consumer and should be addressed by these companies.

The problem I guess is that they can charge essentially whatever they want for the part so they could just take what they would have made by repairing and just knock 10-20% off so you will still probably be better off looking at third-party components.

 

[charlituna]

This is great news (unless your Apple), and something I hope continues. I can understand Apples point of view but on a somewhat separate note, they are charging an over the top Apple premium for not only (some) products but essentially all repairs.

you can technically already get parts for basically everything that can be repairs in an iPhone. just not by walking into an Apple store and picking it up off the shelf. and Apple won't cover those repairs, if you can get service from them at all (with batteries they won't touch the item including swapping for safety reasons). unless this bill says they have to sell parts to customers or have to cover 3rd party part replacements they aren't likely to say boo. they might even change their terms to say yeah you can walk in and demand to buy the part but once you do, you can't get service on that item at apple anymore, you wanna fix it you will be fixing it for life (so you better not screw up). and then wait to see if anyone tries to sue them over it.
[doublepost=1520489837][/doublepost]

As long as people are responsible for any damage they do to their phone while attempting a repair. That shouldn't be on Apple.

Apple would likely agree with you. their stance would be that if you do it yourself, even with an apple supplied part and guide, you voided your warranty, or even all rights to have Apple fix it.

 

[nStyle]

they might even change their terms to say yeah you can walk in and demand to buy the part but once you do, you can't get service on that item at apple anymore, you wanna fix it you will be fixing it for life (so you better not screw up). and then wait to see if anyone tries to sue them over it.

I doubt that as Apple has already deemed that third-party replaced screens don't void the warranty. I'm not sure what else this might count as not voiding the warranty but we know for sure that screen repairs don't.

 

[charlituna]

I doubt that as Apple has already deemed that third-party replaced screens don't void the warranty. I'm not sure what else this might count as not voiding the warranty but we know for sure that screen repairs don't.

actually they do. if you have an issue with that 3rd party screen or the person who installed it jacked up any of the internals, its not covered under your warranty. you will pay to get it fixed.
and if that 'what else' is a battery you will be shown the door. they won't even let you pay for a swap. same with computers with a 3rd party battery. their policy is not touching it ever.

 

[H2SO4]

Ok, so who is responsible for devices that are "repaired" by third parties who in turn mess them up? At one point or another I have repaired every Phone up through the Phone 6. Usually because myself or my kids broke the screen. I have never had problems getting cheap parts from Amazon, nor any problem with screwdrivers or even replacement screws. BUT the repairs are NOT for the faint of heart, it is tricky, takes time and practice. I happen to have skills in this area so it doesn't bother me; but I wouldn't want to see someone just try and wing it, likely they'll break things worse.

The reality is, Apple's fee for most repairs is not that bad, typically about $100.

Not Apple. This is obvious surely?
Repairs not being for the faint hearted is not a good reason. This applies to anything - that person needs to be reasonably competent at what they are doing/about to do and they take the risk. It doesn't mean Apple have the right to lock you out.

 

[nStyle]

actually they do. if you have an issue with that 3rd party screen or the person who installed it jacked up any of the internals, its not covered under your warranty. you will pay to get it fixed.
and if that 'what else' is a battery you will be shown the door. they won't even let you pay for a swap. same with computers with a 3rd party battery. their policy is not touching it ever.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/24/third-party-iphone-screen-repairs-now-allowed/

What I meant is the one concession they do allow is this. They won't warranty your third-party screen of course but they will still cover the rest of the phone (I think I misread you at first and thought you meant that it voided the entire phone's warranty). But you're right in that they won't cover any item that you've touched if it's third party.

I'm not sure why they'd deny service on their own components or how they can tell that they were replaced since they're their own first-party components - we'll see I guess. But does it even really matter? If you're the type to work on your own stuff are you ever going to really concede and just let Apple fix it? Likely no - you're just going to keep going until the problem is fixed.

 

[H2SO4]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

OMG.
You can apply that assertion to any product in any industry. Truth is if you or anybody that upvoted you have ever had any item, (your car, boiler, leaky tap, lawnmower...... ad nauseum), repaired or serviced by a third party, or have done it yourself I'm going ask you to ask yourself if the word hypocrite sounds appropriate.

 

[mi7chy]

The one positive thing out of the iPhone battery throttling fiasco. Not much different from a lot of DIY'ers buying genuine OE parts and doing their own auto repair.

 

[charlituna]

The one positive thing out of the iPhone battery throttling fiasco. Not much different from a lot of DIY'ers buying genuine OE parts and doing their own auto repair.

its probably about the only thing. well that and forcing apple to put in a warning about batteries that are used up.

although knowing folks that work for apple and hearing all the hell, it sounds like they should have been more upfront with the details of the throttling. like at what point does it actually kick in. when the battery is down to 80%, 50%, 25% of the full capacity. and only offered replacements to folks at that cheaper price when it hit that level. because before that their issue isn't their software stunt but something else. then give folks a way to go online and run the test to see where their battery level is. and if it was at that level they could submit to order a battery etc. then they wouldn't have had folks with perfectly fine batteries using up store supplies and they wouldn't have folks swallowing up all the in store time to find out they don't qualify.

 

[RudySnow]

Wasn’t “Right to Repair” once called “ObamaCare?”

 

[Tech198]

So, like living the old ways we did in the "dark ages" eh?


Looks like an accident, waiting to happen

 

[H2SO4]

So, live like the old ways we did in the "dark ages" eh?

Apple just adding secure measures to validating TouchID, FaceID (i guess as well) by visiting an Authorized Apple store. Seems legit use..

Otherwise 3rd party repairers could claim something is fitted, and it's not.

Least if Authorized Repairer does it, you know it's genuine part and not cheap part. which is the reason why you go to 3rd party dealer because we want our phones repaired on the cheapy side.

Looks like an accident, waiting to happen

No not at all. You are very confused. Inexpensive and cheap are not the same. Apple can do a cheap repair/design just as well or badly as anybody else. Seriously if you think that Apple are 100% honest in everything you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Otherwise Apple could claim something is fine, and it's not. Like an iPhone 6S battery.

 

[Tech198]

No not at all. You are very confused. Inexpensive and cheap are not the same. Apple can do a cheap repair/design just as well or badly as anybody else. Seriously if you think that Apple are 100% honest in everything you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Otherwise Apple could claim something is fine, and it's not. Like an iPhone 6S battery.

Apple can stuff up, but its less likely because they sell their own products.

 

[alexgowers]

The issue is not Apple themselves or laws.

The problem is that working on Apple products is super difficult and very few competent repair shops will touch them and the dubious ones that do don’t understand that they could be making a mini pocket firecracker.

I love repairability as much any folk but unless you are trained, have the right tools (much too expensive for a shop) and skilled repairers. You’re just taking a dying industry and letting in scammers and bad actors.

Sorry but I disagree with a bill like this. I’d rather see maximum cost for repairs based on % purchase price from Apple. Or require Apple to break down repair bills and costs. Require Apple to support older repairs etc. But not for any old shop to open up and fiddle around with a product that can explode or catch for right next to my balls!

 

[H2SO4]

Apple can stuff up, but its less likely because they sell their own products.

No, Apple do stuff up, (as does everybody else). Tell it like it is please. How they handle it after that is the measure of what goes down.
Apple will protect themselves first and then you, (if they feel like it). How does you me going to a 3rd party affect you going to Apple for a repair?
[doublepost=1520493235][/doublepost]

The issue is not Apple themselves or laws.

The problem is that working on Apple products is super difficult and very few competent repair shops will touch them and the dubious ones that do don’t understand that they could be making a mini pocket firecracker.

I love repairability as much any folk but unless you are trained, have the right tools (much too expensive for a shop) and skilled repairers. You’re just taking a dying industry and letting in scammers and bad actors.

Sorry but I disagree with a bill like this. I’d rather see maximum cost for repairs based on % purchase price from Apple. Or require Apple to break down repair bills and costs. Require Apple to support older repairs etc. But not for any old shop to open up and fiddle around with a product that can explode or catch for right next to my balls!

Choice, you have the choice to go to Apple still right, even if you get offered a repair of a $1 component from a third party as opposed to a $1000 motherboard from Apple?

You like the choice to replace a faulty tyre right? How about GM charge you a premium for them to replace it?

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

Nobody is forcing you to repair it yourself; you don't want to undertake the task? bring it in for an Apple repair. You shouldn't deny the more technical among us the right to repair because you may botch it.

 

[gully666uk]

This is good news. Freedom of choice is a good thing. I was once a an apple genius and I repaired my own stuff all the time getting parts is hit and miss. Apple could make more money if they sold the parts to so I don't actually see them losing out in the end.The walled garden might get a gate one day.

 

[ds2000]

Good. Hope it passes.

I love advances in tech as much as anyone but I feel like we’re too disposable these days. My parents would repair anything we had if it broke but these days most people just throw away and replace broken electronics. It’s so wasteful.

^^ this, we need to try and recycle / reuse as much as possible these days. The world can only take so much abuse from us. The 'need' for the latest and greatest is childish to say the least.

 

[Guy Clark]

Although I broadly support right to repair it has the very real possibility of a negative outcome in that so called experts will pop up all over the place overnight damaging rather than repairing equipment.
I repair out of warranty Macs for a living and the number of times I have had to put right others bodge jobs you would not believe at times disturbing as I have received non Retina MacBook Pros that have been in the hands of cowboys and found them NOT to be electrically safe.

For me it would be easier to source parts but overall I welcome these Bills with caution.

 

[nStyle]

The issue is not Apple themselves or laws.

The problem is that working on Apple products is super difficult and very few competent repair shops will touch them and the dubious ones that do don’t understand that they could be making a mini pocket firecracker.

I love repairability as much any folk but unless you are trained, have the right tools (much too expensive for a shop) and skilled repairers. You’re just taking a dying industry and letting in scammers and bad actors.

Sorry but I disagree with a bill like this. I’d rather see maximum cost for repairs based on % purchase price from Apple. Or require Apple to break down repair bills and costs. Require Apple to support older repairs etc. But not for any old shop to open up and fiddle around with a product that can explode or catch for right next to my balls!

Um, what? If anything the bill lessens the chance of anything shady happening in the future by providing official documentation and OEM parts. People are already acquiring parts and fixing on their own. In no way shape or form does the presence or absence of this bill alter that fact or affect the ability for shady shops to open up. The bill simply makes everything a bit more transparent - which can only help.

Also, part of having the right tools includes having the right parts. You can do pretty much any iPhone repair with a $20 toolkit. Having accurately designed parts and detailed instructions is where the difference between success and failure comes into play. And how is smartphone repair a "dying" industry? Apple only keeps increasing the price of their phones and as long as people keep dropping and cracking their screens, people will keep replacing them.

Again, this bill is in a nutshell fighting for the same basic rights that automakers have had to adhere to for basically ever now. There will be shady repair shops before and after this bill. The bill has nothing to do with that, except potentially reduce the amount of poorly done repairs and give the consumer more options.
[doublepost=1520495568][/doublepost]

Although I broadly support right to repair it has the very real possibility of a negative outcome in that so called experts will pop up all over the place overnight damaging rather than repairing equipment.

Again, this is a strawman. The existence of shady shops doing sketchy repairs exist with or without this bill - and one might even argue that with clearer documentation and accessible first-party components, the number of botched repairs would probably go down. At the end of the day, it's still ultimately up to the consumer to decide what they want to do with their device and it's up to them to do their research. I'm not sure how having more options is ever a bad thing, especially when these options are trickling down from the manufacturer themselves.

 

[pika2000]

one can already repair their car, their dishwasher, their xbox, their computer, etc all with OEM parts..... same risks

phones shouldn't be any different

I don't think that's the issue. You have that right already, nobody took that right.

The issue was about the original parts. Apple made it available only to those that applied under their authorized service center program.

But nobody's ever stopping you from repairing your phones with other parts. You lose the warranty, but that's been the case with all the things you mentioned a well.