California to Introduce 'Right to Repair' Bill Requiring Smartphone Manufacturers to Offer Repair Info and Parts

[cfurlin]

So you've swapped out the screen, fine. But where do we draw the line? What if you swap out the OS? Switching out parts may have unintended consequences. I fully support repairability, and have done some battery changes on iPhones myself. But I'm not going to hold Apple responsible if something goes south after I've replaced one of their parts.

I agree. The second someone other than Apple opens that unit, it is no longer Apple's problem regarless of what happens.

I'm all for the freedom to choose what you do to a product you fully purchased (not making payments), but with that freedom comes the responsibility to fully own the product.

Given our society's penchant for blaming everyone but themselves for things that happen to them, Apple will still wind up dealing with the whiners every time a repair doen't go their way.

 

[seb101]

I agree. The second someone other than Apple opens that unit, it is no longer Apple's problem regarless of what happens.

I'm all for the freedom to choose what you do to a product you fully purchased (not making payments), but with that freedom comes the responsibility to fully own the product.

Given our society's penchant for blaming everyone but themselves for things that happen to them, Apple will still wind up dealing with the whiners every time a repair doen't go their way.

I really don't get the point you are making. This is the way of life in almost every other product industry.

If I choose to change the oil on my car myself, the manufacturer can't just claim the warranty is no longer valid on the whole car. They would have to prove a causal link between a mistake I made in the process of changing the oil or type of oil, AND that this mistake caused the future problem.

If my TV breaks due to a power surge, so I buy a replacement OEM power supply and fit it myself, then 6 months later the screen dies, Samsung can't then say the warranty is automatically invalid. They can TRY and claim that the damage was caused by the surge, or by my improper replacement of the power supply, but they would have to fight this with me, and in court, and they would likely back down well before then.

This is how the world works, and it's well enshrined in most country's consumer laws. Apple are managing to get around this by deliberately making repairs hard or destructive to perform, and not making the OEM parts available, thereby forcing people to perform non-standard repairs which would invalidate a warranty.

 

[jmgregory1]

I agree. The second someone other than Apple opens that unit, it is no longer Apple's problem regarless of what happens.

I'm all for the freedom to choose what you do to a product you fully purchased (not making payments), but with that freedom comes the responsibility to fully own the product.

Given our society's penchant for blaming everyone but themselves for things that happen to them, Apple will still wind up dealing with the whiners every time a repair doen't go their way.

Absolutely agree. If implemented, I fully expect the next round of press this law will generate are from consumers and lawyers who are suing Apple because their iPhone / Mac doesn't perform to spec after having a non-spec component installed. Consumers are generally stupid and there are plenty of attorneys that are willing to use that stupidity to make a living.

 

[akadafni]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

Voided warranty. Too bad so sad

 

[mytdave]

California does a lot of stupid things, but I'm with them on this one. This is an appropriate application of regulatory power upon commercial enterprise. It should also be put to public vote, as a referendum or some other appropriate measure. If supported by the public, then it's appropriate that it become law.

There is already good precedence set for repairability. One has to look no further than the auto industry. As a compromise, Cali should drop the parts availability clause from 7 to 5 years. It's a bit excessive to require electronics mfgs to continue making parts that are obsolete for a period of time that's more than twice that of the obsolescence age.

 

[seb101]

Absolutely agree. If implemented, I fully expect the next round of press this law will generate are from consumers and lawyers who are suing Apple because their iPhone / Mac doesn't perform to spec after having a non-spec component installed. Consumers are generally stupid and there are plenty of attorneys that are willing to use that stupidity to make a living.

The ENTIRE POINT of this law is to make the parts and knowledge available to that consumers and third parties CAN perform 'spec' repairs. It is the current situation that drives the behavior you describe.

 

[chrono1081]

I swear, sometimes I feel you've got Apple PR reps all over this forums. I would not be surprised one bit if Apple hired people to do that....Wait! they may not need to since we got a lot of sheep in Apple wagon. I have been using iPhone since 3G and continue to buy into it. However, when I hear people complaining about having choices (iPhone SE, iPhone 6, 6 Plus, X) blows my mind away. Like, are you for real? If you don't like the choice then just go do what you usually do, run to Apple store like a sheep.

What are you on about? Not a single poster above you mentioned anything in Apples defense.

 

[nwcs]

I can see both sides of this issue but when it comes to laws like this, there are always unintended side effects. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they aren’t good. I’ll be curious — if this passes in my state — to see what the long term impact really is. I would love to have a componetized system with replacement parts available and easily worked. I know it would result in larger devices overall. But the reality is that most people most of the time prefer convenience. The disposable culture existed before all this glued together electronics and this won’t change anything in that regard.

 

[siddavis]

I am very uneasy reading all of the responses in support of this. Do we really need (or want) the government legislating every part of our lives? It’s called capitalism and competition. If you don’t like the repairability of a product and this as a feature is so important to you, choose a competitor! If there isn’t one on the market, then there probably isn’t a market for it. Stop turning to the government for everything you want in life. All this regulation does is drive up cost and stifles innovation.

 

[seb101]

I am very uneasy reading all of the responses in support of this. Do we really need (or want) the government legislating every part of our lives? It’s called capitalism and competition. If you don’t like the repairability of a product and this as a feature is so important to you, choose a competitor! If there isn’t one on the market, then there probably isn’t a market for it. Stop turning to the government for everything you want in life. All this regulation does is drive up cost and stifles innovation.

Don't forget, the government is the voice of the people - therefore it can have positive power to change and shape the economy for the benefit of the many (Apple customers), not the few (Apple Shareholders). Capitalism is an economic method, not a governing method.

If you consider this 'meddling', then you should also avoid using any interstate highways - as they were commissioned by a 'meddling' government in the 1950s.

 

[siddavis]

No, this is horrible news for everyone. Companies should have the right to decide how their products are repaired. If they do a poor job, or do it in a way that doesn’t satisfy the market, they go out of business. Very simple. Let the market decide, not some govt official trying to look good for re-election while accomplishing nothing. In the long run this will only increase costs to businesses which will get passed down to consumers.

Amen. Freedom and liberty flushed down the toilet one tiny bit at a time.

 

[usarioclave]

I don't understand this right-to-repair stuff. I just self-repaired a dead iPhone 5 by swapping out a logic board I bought on eBay with the dead board. You can get the same thing done at a shop in the mall for $200.

What part of this law is actually required?

I mean seriously, the last thing we need is Joe blow trying to repair their own stuff then blaming Apple or any other company for when it goes bad. And yeah, that happens; talk to home inspectors and appliance repair people and they're full of horror stories about DiY stuff that is just really bad that they tried to pass off.

 

[siddavis]

Don't forget, the government is the voice of the people - therefore it can have positive power to change and shape the economy for the benefit of the many (Apple customers), not the few (Apple Shareholders). Capitalism is an economic method, not a governing method.

If you consider this 'meddling', then you should also avoid using any interstate highways - as they were commissioned by a 'meddling' government in the 1950s.

You said capitalism is an economic method, not a governing method. I agree. But you contradict that in the first sentence saying government can/should shape the economy. No thanks. Capitalism and market forces are FAR more efficient than slow and overbearing government.

 

[seb101]

I don't understand this right-to-repair stuff. I just self-repaired a dead iPhone 5 by swapping out a logic board I bought on eBay with the dead board. You can get the same thing done at a shop in the mall for $200.

What part of this law is actually required?

I mean seriously, the last thing we need is Joe blow trying to repair their own stuff then blaming Apple or any other company for when it goes bad. And yeah, that happens; talk to home inspectors and appliance repair people and they're full of horror stories about DiY stuff that is just really bad that they tried to pass off.

The part that stops companies from making products deliberately hard or destructive to repair. The part that means they have to publish repair methods so people can do repairs properly not have to guess from iFixit teardowns. The part that means they have to provide access to OEM spare parts so people can do repairs.

 

[mytdave]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

That's a benefit. It's good for everyone. How many people attempt repairs on a device if it's within the warranty period? Very few. Why? What's the point if you can get it professionally fixed for free?

Once outside the warranty period (or even within the warranty period), those with the skills to tinker can take their chances, with fair success. Good for the individual.

Those who don't know what they're doing may break the device further, and then if they really want it to work they'll take it to a repair shop who will charge a hefty fee. Good for repair shops.

If the owner doesn't think the repair bill is worth it, then that person will buy a new device. Good for the mfgs.

In the grand scheme of things, a right to repair law benefits everyone.

 

[Supermacguy]

Good for CA! I hope it leads to more repairable products, include Apple stuff. Death to glue!

 

[Moorepheus]

Ok, so who takes their product anywhere else but back to the company that made it when it is still under warranty? It's just silly to read all these post how people say "if you go to some 3rd party to fix your phone and something doesn't go right, you out of luck". That's not true, Apple will more than be glad to fix the bad repair and charge you for it. This isn't what this is about. This is about allowing 3rd parties to fix "OUT OF WARRATY" repairs. This is about having NEW OEM parts available to these 3rd party repair facilities. The problem with Apple, is they don't allow this at all, even with their products out of a warranty.

Unfortunately that is part of making things smaller, and more dense. Very very hard to work on. Old TVs easy, the electronics were simple, the system was simple. Today's 4k Smart TV's, there is only so much you can do unless you know how to remove chips off of a circuit board.

They don't do that these days, they just replace the entire board, seen it first had on one of my TV's at home. They came to my house, with new board in had, swapped it out and in 1/2 hour, it was working again. Same with other devices like Washers, driers, etc. My dryer stopped worked, change out one board and working again. Done.

Ehhh. So all our devices are going to have some annoying compromises for this regulation. How often are people breaking internal components that this is an issue?

I can tell you this, every day, I see someone walking around with a broken screen, for the simple fact, that it takes weeks just to get an appointment to bring the phone in for repair. Then with only 1 Apple store this area, you have to drive hours just to get to it, stand around for hours waiting for the repair and then drive hours home. However, you are right, people are not breaking internal components, but lets look at the BATTERY issue Apple is having with the 6S. HHmm, I know it's a supply problem (that's what Apple says), but if it wasn't.

Pretty simple.. If someone that is not Apple Certified and using non Apple Parts replaced anything on your phone it breaks your warranty and Apple will no longer service it. So sure.. get it fixed by self or a repair shop. You no longer have a warranty.

And, that is why this bill is important, it would require Apple to sell their parts to 3rd party repairers so they could put OEM products back into your device.

 

[panjandrum]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

Oh, so true! I mean, my goodness, what if people started, I don't know, painting their own house and get a drip on the carpet? Or fixing their own plumbing, or cars? Wait, why stop there? What if a person brushes his own teeth and somehow chips a tooth or bruises a gum? What then? What a crazy slippery slope!

 

[seb101]

You said capitalism is an economic method, not a governing method. I agree. But you contradict that in the first sentence saying government can/should shape the economy. No thanks. Capitalism and market forces are FAR more efficient than slow and overbearing government.

You are missing the difference between cheap electronics and the success and prosperity of society as a whole.

 

[shareef777]

But cars are kind of sold as a product of separate parts in the first place. For example, if you buy a brand new car and it stops working in the first few months you cant just get your money back on the whole thing. They will fix whatever is wrong (gearbox, clutch etc..).

Electronic devices nowadays are so small lost of their components are on one chip or so fused together you might as well just replace the whole thing. Even if you can get the components for some of the parts the ability to install them and test them is kind of hard as well. I'm not even sure Apple repair stuff that much anyway, sometimes they just give you a whole new thing because its not worth it.

I think the "old days" are gone in device manufacturing because they just not designed in the "old way" anymore. These machines are all very compact and integrated. And if Apple aren't even repairing stuff by replacing components how can they supply components to third parties?

But no one is saying Apple needs to provide chips. What ever parts Apple replaces to make up a refurb, they need to provide to 3rd parties. Those returns aren’t 100% new phones. The only reason they swap phones and not repair is just for ease/speed. You better believe they have techs that fix these phones after the fact. They then wipe the phone and either reuse it as someone else’s replacement or resell as a refurb. It’s about the basics. Screens, batteries, seals/screws.

 

[MrBat]

I'll be sure to watch a happy Mr Rossmann later

One of those cases where I certainly don't side with Apple. I can understand their reasoning and the supposed "protecting people from themselves" thing but it should be the individual's choice to make. Hope this sends a precedent to other countries.

Hell yeah! I hope the law passes and strikes Apple at full force.

Cars can be repaired by 3rd party repair shops no problem. The same should happen with all consumer electronics.
[doublepost=1520517410][/doublepost]

Okay so I have the right to repair. I try to repair and damage the device further without knowing. What then? Crazy slippery slope.

You have a car, you try to repair it yourself but break things up even more... What do you do? You get your car to a 3rd party repair shop or the Official repair place (as you wish), kinda apologise for screwing your car up and pay up the repair.

If you don't know what you're doing, don't try to repair?

For those however that are keen/skilled enough, can try to repair and successfully save tons of money. Also, even if you're not skilled enough, or don't have the tools, a 3rd party repair shop can usually save you lots of money by using 2nd hand parts or even new OEM. You have the choice.

So hard to get the concept?

 

[deanthedev]

I really don't get the point you are making. This is the way of life in almost every other product industry.

If I choose to change the oil on my car myself, the manufacturer can't just claim the warranty is no longer valid on the whole car. They would have to prove a causal link between a mistake I made in the process of changing the oil or type of oil, AND that this mistake caused the future problem.

Bad example. Cars are large and relatively simple products with thousands of separate and easily replaceable parts. Compact electronics (smartphones) cram a ridiculous number of components into a few sub-assemblies. Even the act of opening up your phone (if done without care) can damage something major (like the motherboard) and render the entire device useless. Opening the hood on your car has absolutely zero chance of damaging your engine.

Right to Repair makes sense in a lot of industries (automotive being a major one). It makes far less sense on very complex and compact electronic devices. What’s next, allowing us to open hard drives to fix ourselves? Replacing components on motherboards in our PCs? Some things are better off getting recycled and replaced as a whole than attempting to repair.

 

[usarioclave]

The part that stops companies from making products deliberately hard or destructive to repair. The part that means they have to publish repair methods so people can do repairs properly not have to guess from iFixit teardowns. The part that means they have to provide access to OEM spare parts so people can do repairs.

So they do that and just jack up the parts price, then what? How do you define "hard or destructive?" There are reasons for making iPhones the way they are that have nothing to do with repairing them. Apple has just as much trouble repairing them as I do.

As for part availability, what part isn't available? I can get every possible iPhone part on eBay. I take a chance on the adherence to spec for the parts, but I can always buy the more expensive OEM part.

Again, what's the problem exactly?

 

[ctdonath]

I really don't get the point you are making. This is the way of life in almost every other product industry.

Key word there: "almost".

Phones & computers are so compact, with such tiny parts, that few indeed have the tools & skill to fix them.

I can see Apple responding to this by literally epoxying the entire interior together, and declaring the "replacement component" the entire device. Repairs would simply be copying the entire memory to another device (though this would require an interesting advancement of the secure enclave technology). This is not unreasonable, as many "replaceable components" are in fact a sub-assembly which is not sub-repairable (when I needed a heat shield replaced on the car, the annoyed repair shop had to replace the entire catalytic converter assembly).

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Good. They should extend this law to require automobiles and coffee makers to be as serviceable as they were in the 1950s too.

I started this post in /sarcasm, but the more I think about it...

With production manufacturing becoming automated, if we still want (even more) people to do work, then making the products built by automation serviceable by humans rather than disposable keeps technically-minded people employed, in addition to the obvious environmental benefits, greater value extraction from resources, etc