California to Introduce 'Right to Repair' Bill Requiring Smartphone Manufacturers to Offer Repair Info and Parts

[sracer]

Good for CA! I hope it leads to more repairable products, include Apple stuff. Death to glue!

I prefer that consumers take responsibility for their own decisions. If repairability is a priority for someone, then they should buy a product that is repairable. If Apple doesn't make it, buy something else. Money speaks loudest of all. Repairability is an increasing priority for me so the current Apple devices I own will be the last (if they don't change their ways). It's not an emotional thing, I'm not angry about it, it is simply the way things are.

 

[seb101]

Bad example. Cars are large and relatively simple products with thousands of separate and easily replaceable parts. Compact electronics (smartphones) cram a ridiculous number of components into a few sub-assemblies. Even the act of opening up your phone (if done without care) can damage something major (like the motherboard) and render the entire device useless. Opening the hood on your car has absolutely zero chance of damaging your engine.

Right to Repair makes sense in a lot of industries (automotive being a major one). It makes far less sense on very complex and compact electronic devices. What’s next, allowing us to open hard drives to fix ourselves? Replacing components on motherboards in our PCs? Some things are better off getting recycled and replaced as a whole than attempting to repair.

You have clearly never replaced oil. You can't just 'pop the hood' you have to remove and replace the sump plug, possibly other parts.

Compactness is a bad argument, just because you have to use a smaller screwdriver doesn't make it any 'harder'. Why are you assuming that a 3rd party repairer would be doing it 'without care'?

Apple doesn't have a crew of super-humans repairing their phones, they have normal average people, who have got very detailed instructions and special tools. If the public had access to the same, they could do just as good a job.

 

[MrBat]

Good. They should extend this law to require automobiles and coffee makers to be as serviceable as they were in the 1950s too.

I started this post in /sarcasm, but the more I think about it...

With production manufacturing becoming automated, if we still want even more people to do work, then making the products built by automation serviceable by humans rather than disposable keeps technically-minded people employed.

My thoughts exactly.

It's "OK" to automate production. What's not "OK" it's to just throw away everything when there's a minor issue and buy a new one. That is waste, unnecessary waste. Good for companies though, racking up on profits...

Old things manufactured 50y ago were easy to service. Things were built with the concept that had to be user serviceable. Hell, manufacturers even took pride on how durable and friendly to repair their things were...

There's simply no reason good enough to throw things away just because of little issues. Folk here defending Apple as if they were paid employees or major stakeholders. Dear Lord!

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I am all in for sustainability and therefore repairability. Great law !

 

[Iconoclysm]

one can already repair their car, their dishwasher, their xbox, their computer, etc all with OEM parts..... same risks

phones shouldn't be any different

Ok, you are just making stuff up or do not really know what you're saying: Xbox does not have OEM parts available to you and voids the warranty if you don't send it back to Microsoft, most modern cars you would not want to have repaired anywhere outside of the dealer as they're becoming incredibly make/model specific, a dishwasher is cheaper to replace than to repair, computers vary widely in repairability. Try repairing a Surface Pro for instance.
[doublepost=1520518601][/doublepost]

My thoughts exactly.

It's "OK" to automate production. What's not "OK" it's to just throw away everything when there's a minor issue and buy a new one. That is waste, unnecessary waste. Good for companies though, racking up on profits...

Old things manufactured 50y ago were easy to service. Things were built with the concept that had to be user serviceable. Hell, manufacturers even took pride on how durable and friendly to repair their things were...

There's simply no reason good enough to throw things away just because of little issues. Folk here defending Apple as if they were paid employees or major stakeholders. Dear Lord!

It is not defending Apple to suggest that their process to repair devices is right, they don't want you to throw them away. It's crazy how you are twisting this to mean that anyone is suggesting you throw your device away...well, it's crazy if it weren't so obvious that you don't understand what is actually going on.

Can you even show a product from 50 years ago that was in an industry that advanced this quickly?

 

[ctdonath]

What's not "OK" it's to just throw away everything when there's a minor issue and buy a new one. That is waste, unnecessary waste.

Apple notes that all their devices are highly recyclable.
Just return it to Apple - getting a 10% discount on next purchase (or something like that).
Apple has the facilities to efficiently decompose and reuse/recycle components.

 

[diipii]

This is good news for everybody. It indicates that Apple's general attitude, and other companies too, is now under the scrutiny of authorities with our interests at heart. Apple's response, no matter what it is, will be of great interest to us as clients with regard to where we are motivated to spend our cash in the future. Right now I feel Apple is painting itself into a corner.

 

[Zaren]

Apple doesn't have a crew of super-humans repairing their phones, they have normal average people, who have got very detailed instructions and special tools. If the public had access to the same, they could do just as good a job.

Also: Apple's average people have a ton of experience doing this work, and they still screw up sometimes and poke a hole in a battery, causing the evacuation of the shop / mall where the work was being done. Imagine if any old schmuck at home thinks they can just use a putty knife and a nail file to replace their screen (because you know they won't spend the extra money on proper tools)! You think California wildfires are bad now? Wait util subdivisions are busting into flames because Bob dumped a bucket of water on his iPhone after he ruptured the battery.

 

[MrBat]

Ok, you are just making stuff up or do not really know what you're saying: Xbox does not have OEM parts available to you and voids the warranty if you don't send it back to Microsoft, most modern cars you would not want to have repaired anywhere outside of the dealer as they're becoming incredibly make/model specific, a dishwasher is cheaper to replace than to repair, computers vary widely in repairability. Try repairing a Surface Pro for instance.

Microsoft is as guilty as Apple if this "malpractice". A malpractice that has been allowed by lawmakers, so far. Surface devices as as horrible or even worse to repair as Apple MacBooks, for example.

Difference with Xbox is that it's easier to find parts on ebay and easier for an average Joe to replace parts, even though Msoft does not provide repair schematics.

 

[mytdave]

I am very uneasy reading all of the responses in support of this. Do we really need (or want) the government legislating every part of our lives? It’s called capitalism and competition. If you don’t like the repairability of a product and this as a feature is so important to you, choose a competitor! If there isn’t one on the market, then there probably isn’t a market for it. Stop turning to the government for everything you want in life. All this regulation does is drive up cost and stifles innovation.

In almost, *almost* every case I agree with you. There is a fine line sometimes, and government does (is supposed to anyway) exist to help ensure individual liberty (constitutionally) and protection from market abuses (corruption). If you look at the auto industry as an example, 'right to repair' put pressure on known industry collusion where it was found to be intentionally designing unrepairable products. This regulatory correction doesn't seem to have hurt the auto industry at all. Same reason we have anti-monopoly laws. On the other hand, it is also true there are some insane and burdensome regulations on the auto industry that need not exist.

Right now I don't see any competing smartphone mfg with a repairable product, which would indicate a problem - whether intentional (collusion) or simply coincidental due to the 'copy cat' mentality, there is a lack of choice. There is no competitor to turn to if you don't like the repairability of the current products, therefore there is no fully free market, from a consumer standpoint. A right to repair bill is therefore a reasonable thing to consider (put it to a vote).

Overall, the free market always performs better than controlled markets (i.e. state run economies or dictatorships). But sometimes collusion leads to a market that's not truly free, and therefore the "will of the people" has to be applied to counter corruption. Of course then "the people" have to keep a very close watchful eye on their elected officials to avoid even worse abuses: Corporate-government collusion, or government overstepping it's constitutional boundaries.

 

[MrBat]

Apple notes that all their devices are highly recyclable.
Just return it to Apple - getting a 10% discount on next purchase (or something like that).
Apple has the facilities to efficiently decompose and reuse/recycle components.

Sure thing, while they will kindly walk you to buy a new one. How smart, amirite?

 

[Iconoclysm]

I really don't get the point you are making. This is the way of life in almost every other product industry.

If I choose to change the oil on my car myself, the manufacturer can't just claim the warranty is no longer valid on the whole car. They would have to prove a causal link between a mistake I made in the process of changing the oil or type of oil, AND that this mistake caused the future problem.

If my TV breaks due to a power surge, so I buy a replacement OEM power supply and fit it myself, then 6 months later the screen dies, Samsung can't then say the warranty is automatically invalid. They can TRY and claim that the damage was caused by the surge, or by my improper replacement of the power supply, but they would have to fight this with me, and in court, and they would likely back down well before then.

This is how the world works, and it's well enshrined in most country's consumer laws. Apple are managing to get around this by deliberately making repairs hard or destructive to perform, and not making the OEM parts available, thereby forcing people to perform non-standard repairs which would invalidate a warranty.

Changing the oil is one of the very few things I'd do with my current, modern car without involving the dealer or manufacturer. It's about the equivalent to buying a new charger for a phone or laptop.

Yes, Samsung can and would do this. And they'd do a hell of a lot worse than you would ever guess they would, apparently. I've seen them absolutely abandon products within 30 days of their launch, tell users to cut the power cord and take a picture as proof then refund 50% of the value, then deny that, then confirm that, around and around. And they'd win in court too, by the way.

 

[MrBat]

Ok, you are just making stuff up or do not really know what you're saying: Xbox does not have OEM parts available to you and voids the warranty if you don't send it back to Microsoft, most modern cars you would not want to have repaired anywhere outside of the dealer as they're becoming incredibly make/model specific, a dishwasher is cheaper to replace than to repair, computers vary widely in repairability. Try repairing a Surface Pro for instance.
[doublepost=1520518601][/doublepost]

It is not defending Apple to suggest that their process to repair devices is right, they don't want you to throw them away. It's crazy how you are twisting this to mean that anyone is suggesting you throw your device away...well, it's crazy if it weren't so obvious that you don't understand what is actually going on.

Can you even show a product from 50 years ago that was in an industry that advanced this quickly?

Apple wants you to buy the new thing if you're unwilling to pay the atrocious prices Apple charges to repair things up.

I'ts crazy how people here defend the indefensible.

 

[cfurlin]

Oh, so true! I mean, my goodness, what if people started, I don't know, painting their own house and get a drip on the carpet? Or fixing their own plumbing, or cars? Wait, why stop there? What if a person brushes his own teeth and somehow chips a tooth or bruises a gum? What then? What a crazy slippery slope!

Or replacing their own air bags and killing their family in an accident. Try crying to the auto manufacturer and see where it gets you.

“Sorry for your loss, but it’s your own fault.“

 

[Iconoclysm]

Microsoft is as guilty as Apple if this "malpractice". A malpractice that has been allowed by lawmakers, so far. Surface devices as as horrible or even worse to repair as Apple MacBooks, for example.

Difference with Xbox is that it's easier to find parts on ebay and easier for an average Joe to replace parts, even though Msoft does not provide repair schematics.

What you're finding on ebay are counterfeit parts, not OEM parts. Please, stop with the malpractice nonsense, small/portable electronics have almost always been this way.

 

[seb101]

Also: Apple's average people have a ton of experience doing this work, and they still screw up sometimes and poke a hole in a battery, causing the evacuation of the shop / mall where the work was being done. Imagine if any old schmuck at home thinks they can just use a putty knife and a nail file to replace their screen (because you know they won't spend the extra money on proper tools)! You think California wildfires are bad now? Wait util subdivisions are busting into flames because Bob dumped a bucket of water on his iPhone after he ruptured the battery.

No one is advocating for the wide-spread home-repair of products. What this allows, is for skilled (plenty of practice) 3rd-parties to do the same repairs as Apple, creating competition in the repair market. Which is good for consumers.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Apple wants you to buy the new thing if you're unwilling to pay the atrocious prices Apple charges to repair things up.

I'ts crazy how people here defend the indefensible.

Atrocious prices? Oh please. There's nothing to defend here, people are wildly misinformed, you especially.

 

[seb101]

What you're finding on ebay are counterfeit parts, not OEM parts. Please, stop with the malpractice nonsense, small/portable electronics have almost always been this way.

This isn't a law against Apple - it would apply across all manufacturers of many different products.

 

[MrBat]

What you're finding on ebay are counterfeit parts, not OEM parts. Please, stop with the malpractice nonsense, small/portable electronics have almost always been this way.

As a manufacturer, you can easily stop this malpractise nonsense, as you call it. Simply sell OEM parts... Is it that hard? Of course not, it's all about the bottomline.

Apple refuses to sell to 3rd parties, so far. Let's see if this law finally forces all manufacturers, Apple included, to sell OEM parts and facilitate repairs.
[doublepost=1520519570][/doublepost]

Atrocious prices? Oh please. There's nothing to defend here, people are wildly misinformed, you especially.

iMac 27" mid 2011 (top of the line). GPU toast AMD 6970 2GB. Apple quotation: 700 EUR to "repair"/replace. A price given to me in 2017, for MXM video card from 2011.

Le me casually laugh at you.

You're the one that does not have a clue here. Or on the contrary, you truly do know what you're doing, trying to twist the conversation for Apple benefit.

 

[fischersd]

Amazing how many people think that this would be a good thing.
If the bill forces Apple to give 3rd party service depots the same tools that Apple has for servicing / diagnostics, then, yes, there's certainly security concerns here - you'll see more IMEI cloning, more ways for the authorities to get around your secure enclave. They'll make iPhones much less secure.

You also really can't expect Apple to allow this to happen for in-warranty repair either. Some fat-thumbed idiot leaves a loose screw inside after replacing a component and it shorts out the system board, but now Apple's on the hook for a warranty replacement?

People also equating this to other things have obviously never repaired any phones. Many, many, very delicate, very tightly packed, miniaturized components. There really isn't anything comparable in terms of how tight the confines are.

Maybe a good analogy would be, would you like your GP to also do brain surgery on you?

This will result in two things if it becomes commonplace throughout the US and the world:

1) Apple's warranty costs will go up, maintenance revenue will go down, so the cost of iPhones will go up.
2) Longer term, the phones will become fatter and heavier, as the manufacturer's will need to change the design so that almost anyone can service the phones with a minimal amount of skill. Expect everything to be compartmentalized.
eg: https://phonebloks.com

 

[deanthedev]

You have clearly never replaced oil. You can't just 'pop the hood' you have to remove and replace the sump plug, possibly other parts.

Compactness is a bad argument, just because you have to use a smaller screwdriver doesn't make it any 'harder'. Why are you assuming that a 3rd party repairer would be doing it 'without care'?

Apple doesn't have a crew of super-humans repairing their phones, they have normal average people, who have got very detailed instructions and special tools. If the public had access to the same, they could do just as good a job.

I’ve never changed oil? Wow, did you ever put your foot in your mouth. This is what I do for a living (automotive). On my own personal track car I designed and built my own aftermarket drive-by-wire throttle controller. From scratch. Created the schematic, designed the circuit board, programmed the micro controllers (more than one for redundancy) and tuned the throttle curves to my liking after install. That’s a bit more complex than “changing your oil”.

Compactness has everything to do with it. Apple technicians, despite their training and access to special tools, still only perform a few basic repairs (screens, batteries, Lightning ports, buttons...). And these jobs are already widely available at 3rd party shops. There are literally 5 such shops close to my work that do nothing but iPhone or iPad repairs.

I’m curious, what additional repairs do you want to see available that aren’t currently?

 

[iMi]

Who has the time or the skills to properly repair a smartphone? This is getting out of hand, in my opinion. Making the battery easily replaceable may be a good idea. Being able to swap the screen, again, maybe reasonable. But we shouldn't have to introduce a bill to get that done.

Not to mix politics into this issue, but don't we have more pressing legislative work to do?

 

[seb101]

Changing the oil is one of the very few things I'd do with my current, modern car without involving the dealer or manufacturer. It's about the equivalent to buying a new charger for a phone or laptop.

Oh come on, now you really are talking BS. Buying a charger requires you to have $5 and to get out of bed, you don't need to leave the house. Changing the oil requires:

- The right tools.
- Knowledge of the engine, where the sump plug and filler cap are.
- Technical knowledge of the specifications of the engine to ensure correct oil and correct quantity.
- Removal of the engine cover, sump guard and on two of my previous cars, the anti-roll bar.

Repairing an iPhone home button requires:

- The right tools.
- Knowledge of the internals, where the specific part goes, and which assemblies need to be replaced.
- Technical knowledge of the product, to ensure that the new TouchID button is correctly integrated with the firmware.
- Removal of the screen, and other components to access it.

Oddly similar... actually.

 

[AmazingRobie]

What pPople complaining about someone messing up their phones fail to realize is, if this becomes the norm, manufacturers will make phones much easier to gain entry into and repair any issues out of necessity. Things will essentially go in reverse of the direction they are currently heading, where everything is glued together with the intention of you throwing it away and getting a new one instead of fixing it. If you no like, tooooooo bad.

 

[deanthedev]

Oh come on, now you really are talking BS. Buying a charger requires you to have $5 and to get out of bed, you don't need to leave the house. Changing the oil requires:

- The right tools.
- Knowledge of the engine, where the sump plug and filler cap are.
- Technical knowledge of the specifications of the engine to ensure correct oil and correct quantity.
- Removal of the engine cover, sump guard and on two of my previous cars, the anti-roll bar.

Repairing an iPhone home button requires:

- The right tools.
- Knowledge of the internals, where the specific part goes, and which assemblies need to be replaced.
- Technical knowledge of the product, to ensure that the new TouchID button is correctly integrated with the firmware.
- Removal of the screen, and other components to access it.

Oddly similar... actually.

Absolutely and utterly wrong. There's a reason why fast lube places can hire any yahoo off the street to change oil on cars - because it's super easy to do without screwing up. A lot of people just don't have the manual dexterity or attention to detail to repair precision devices.

Do you think watchmakers and auto mechanics are the same too?