Campaigners Rally to Support Apple's Stance on Government Backdoors

[Tiger8]

This is noble and all, but don't these people have jobs?!

I'm sure they do, and that makes it even more admirable what they did, people that get out of their comfort zone, user their own personal time off, TRAVEL even, to make themselves heard.

Almsot all presidential campaigns depend on volunteers, people who use their time, their money, they cars, their resources for free, for a cause.

 

[RedOrchestra]

Hundreds of millions use iPhones around the world this is not even something USA alone can decide. If Apple is forced to do this NSA will have a field day all around the world in no time. This can not happen.

So new car manufacturers have installed computers in cars that are able to provide details in accidents - are you rallying against that as well?

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Of everything one could say about this, the funniest thing in this thread is that some of you are suddenly shocked to discover that indeed, there are people outside during the day. In your concept of how the world works, does everyone on earth work 9-5 indoors in comfortable offices Moday thru Friday?

 

[John Mcgregor]

We live in a republic not a democracy. It's not up to people or corporations to decide either. That's why we have elected representatives, a President and a Supreme Court. Companies and individuals can't just decide on their own what court orders they choose to follow or not.

Actually they can. They will argue the legality and the implications of the order and if need be take it to the court. If that fails there is always referendum. This is too big to be ignored. This exactly the type of issue that defines people and governments.
[doublepost=1455800730][/doublepost]

So new car manufacturers have installed computers in cars that are able to provide details in accidents - are you rallying against that as well?

And that is relevant to this issue how exactly?

 

[RedOrchestra]

And that is relevant to this issue how exactly?

It has every relevance - those on-board computers track your driving habits - isn't that too an invasion of a person's privacy rights?

 

[John Mcgregor]

We live in a republic not a democracy. It's not up to people or corporations to decide either. That's why we have elected representatives, a President and a Supreme Court. Companies and individuals can't just decide on their own what court orders they choose to follow or not.



Since when do other countries have to follow US law? Btw, I'm not arguing in favor of the court order. My argument is that it's not up to Apple to decide whether to comply with it or not. Fight it, take it all the way to the Supreme Court but it's not Apple's decision to make. Either Congress or the Supreme Court will hack to decide.

They complied. What was asked of them later requires further discussion. RTFM.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT THIS WILL EFFECT ANYONE WITH AN IPHONE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IF APPLE IS FORCED TO DO THIS? FOR ****S ****ING SAKE?
[doublepost=1455801054][/doublepost]

It has every relevance - those on-board computers track your driving habits - isn't that too an invasion of a person's privacy rights?

Yes it is, but it's not an issue for FBI and NSA since they can crack it themselves.

 

[RedOrchestra]

[doublepost=1455801287][/doublepost]

Yes it is, but it's not an issue for FBI and NSA since they can crack it themselves.

So now you're picking and choosing - I'm done here.

 

[Tunster]

I take Apple's stance; but it's equally as dangerous in a world where criminals are becoming much more clever into what products to use in order to disguise their communications and data.

Having a good conversation with a colleague of mine yesterday; they made me see that why is this any different to the police putting in a warrant to search your property? They can't just come into your property at any moment to seize objects for evidence. The law enforcement clearly want legal access to reaffirm the prosecution of the individuals who are clearly against the state and potentially hiding information of possible informants, other cells, collaborators and so forth.

Anyone taking a totally defense stance on this issue; you're effectively saying that your private data should come over the security of your country. The US government (or any around the world) needs a way/method/framework of allowing that data to be accessible from all digital devices that have communication capabilities without technical backdoors or open compromises to innocent individuals. That's what we should all be supporting.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

The Grateful Dead has their "Deadheads".
Apple has their __________ ?

 

[H2SO4]

No I don't have trouble reading. Apple doesn't get to decide what's a valid subpoena or search warrant. If Apple complied with everything being asked for there would be no reason for Cook to write that letter and this wouldn't be all over the news.

Whilst I think you are correct this needs further discussion and I don’t mean here on Mac Rumors.
At the same time as people in favour of the actions of Apple are claiming the FBI are setting a dangerous precedent by having/requesting this tool. Apple are also setting a dangerous precedent by showing they are above the law and can ignore court orders.

I heard about the case yesterday and there were 14, yes fourteen people killed. Even if they aren’t my relatives I say yes to finding out who else this guy may have known that could also be a threat. But there need to be significant controls on the state.

 

[Piggie]

Tell you what.

Change the scenario so that these people and/or their direct families are being seriously affected, financial or life/death, and that accessing the guilty parties iPhone would solve things.
THEN let's see how many change their minds.

It's easy to be all big and shouting and standing up for things, when it's not you personally that's being affected.

 

[koulmj]

Tell you what.

Change the scenario so that these people and/or their direct families are being seriously affected, financial or life/death, and that accessing the guilty parties iPhone would solve things.
THEN let's see how many change their minds.

It's easy to be all big and shouting and standing up for things, when it's not you personally that's being affected.

I disagree. When the NSA story about how the Government approved a program that could listen to phones and read emails everyone freaked out...even though it didn't effect them, but it could have prevented more acts of terror, and they had nothing to hide from the police/NSA/Obama Admin, they still chose the right to privacy.

I do sympathize with the issue of privacy after a person has committed a crime, on one hand I think all citizens should comply with search warrants, but on the other I'm not gonna force Apple to do anything they don't wanna do.

 

[asiga]

Who decides if and when your iOS device will download system updates? Apple controls it, you cannot disable updates download.
Who decides if developers can build apps for your iOS version? Apple decides when an iOS version cannot receive app updates anymore.
Where are your personal files? Stored on Apple servers (iCloud)
Who knows where are you in this moment? Google Maps knows it. Apple Maps too. Your tagged photos as well. Shazham might know it too.
Where is your personal mail? Stored in a third-party webmail server.
Who has the legal rights for your social networks personal photos? Facebook owns them.
Who gets a copy of every URL you type on Safari? Apple does (this caused a global Safari failure the other week).

Aaahh...yes, but Apple won't disclose to the FBI the contents of the iPhone from a terrorist, so we are really impressed how they protect our privacy even if they have every single piece of confident personal data from you.

Please wake up. I've never seen as much concentrated stupidness as on this pretending Apple and Google are the freedom rights defenders.

There was a time when Microsoft was evil. And it was. And I dumped them for being evil, and moved to Apple for that reason. But Microsoft practices were nothing compared to nowadays Google, Apple, Samsung, etc...

And then you see Tim Cook shouting how they defend freedom. And Google joins the party.

Please: wake up

 

[firewood]

Why is the FBI having such difficulties? Call Samsung and ask for a memory chip reader and dump it on to a supercomputer and decrypt it, ...

That method may have worked back in the old days, before whole storage encryption and long encryption keys. Decryption might be trivial... assuming a supercomputer the size of a Death Star with a power source larger than our sun. But the Obama administration has already declined requests to build a Death Star.

In order to comply Apple would have to create special signed FW that prevented the auto-erase functionality ...

This assumes that the key auto-erase function can be disabled purely in software without the key. And not some far more difficult to engineer methods involving years of focused ion beam work in liquid helium.

If it were legal to request arbitrary amounts of work, why doesn't the government just use the all writs act to force all the major universities to come up with a method to read secrets directly out of the frozen brains of terrorists? As well as finding a cure for cancer and dementia at the same time? It's all just complying with a court order...

 

[Jsameds]

Who decides if and when your iOS device will download system updates? Apple controls it, you cannot disable updates download.
Who decides if developers can build apps for your iOS version? Apple decides when an iOS version cannot receive app updates anymore.
Where are your personal files? Stored on Apple servers (iCloud)
Who knows where are you in this moment? Google Maps knows it. Apple Maps too. Your tagged photos as well. Shazham might know it too.
Where is your personal mail? Stored in a third-party webmail server.
Who has the legal rights for your social networks personal photos? Facebook owns them.
Who gets a copy of every URL you type on Safari? Apple does (this caused a global Safari failure the other week).

Aaahh...yes, but Apple won't disclose to the FBI the contents of the iPhone from a terrorist, so we are really impressed how they protect our privacy even if they have every single piece of confident personal data from you.

Please wake up. I've never seen as much concentrated stupidness as on this pretending Apple and Google are the freedom rights defenders.

There was a time when Microsoft was evil. And it was. And I dumped them for being evil, and moved to Apple for that reason. But Microsoft practices were nothing compared to nowadays Google, Apple, Samsung, etc...

And then you see Tim Cook shouting how they defend freedom. And Google joins the party.

Please: wake up

Please: Educate yourself

 

[legacyb4]

Conceptually, this is how it's supposed to work; however, it's been demonstrated over and over again that with great power comes great abuse (ie. Snowden).

Having a good conversation with a colleague of mine yesterday; they made me see that why is this any different to the police putting in a warrant to search your property? They can't just come into your property at any moment to seize objects for evidence.

 

[Ed217]

Putting aside legal/cost issues, the government wants access to the phone contents. There seem a few options:

1. They figure it out on their own
2. They give Apple the phone, Apple unlocks it somehow, and gives it back to the Government
3. Apple is forced to create a new iOS with new options for unlocking devices and provides the software to the Government along with HowTo info.
4. Same as (3) except all future iPhones always have this version installed.
5. Apple tries and is unable to unlock the phone in any form or fashion
6. The data is never obtained via any means

The gov has already failed at (1). They are currently asking for (3) via a court order. Many believe that if (3) succeeds, and new push for (4) will not be far behind. Choice (2) seems like an option that has some merit.

 

[jayducharme]

This is heartening, but I'm waiting for more tech companies (like Amazon, MS, Facebook, etc...) to publicly state their support. If there's enough pressure by the industry, the government might back down.

This is noble and all, but don't these people have jobs?

Maybe they're the same people who wait days in line for a new iPhone.

 

[rdlink]

We live in a republic not a democracy. It's not up to people or corporations to decide either. That's why we have elected representatives, a President and a Supreme Court. Companies and individuals can't just decide on their own what court orders they choose to follow or not.



Since when do other countries have to follow US law? Btw, I'm not arguing in favor of the court order. My argument is that it's not up to Apple to decide whether to comply with it or not. Fight it, take it all the way to the Supreme Court but it's not Apple's decision to make. Either Congress or the Supreme Court will hack to decide.

I believe that what Apple is saying is that they cannot comply with this order without creating special software to defeat their own security protocol, that forcing them to do so is unconstitutional, and that they will fight it through legal challenges. Tim Cook's letter was intended to draw attention to the matter, so that it wasn't happening out of view of the general public, and so that a wider audience would be able to see the chicanery the government is pulling.

As this article on Macworld discusses, this is not about the data on this particular phone. It's their effort to create a precedent. I don't believe there is anything of real value on this phone that they don't already have. This is a cynical and calculated effort by the FBI to use a case that they believe would garner public support, and sway a sympathetic (she is a former prosecutor) and weak-minded magistrate to attack Apple's (very noble) stance that my privacy is paramount.

http://www.macworld.com/article/303...ill-affect-civil-rights-for-a-generation.html

I have no doubts that the investigators of this case already know everything they'll ever know about these criminals and their crime, and that some enterprising attorney in the US Attorney's office started hatching a plan a couple of weeks ago to use this as a method to achieve the FBI's previously stated goal of defeating Apple's security features. Magistrates are typically very lousy jurists, and I really don't see this ruling standing up on appeal. The 9th Circuit will destroy this ruling.

 

[asiga]

Please: Educate yourself

Well, actually, I don't let Apple have access to my personal data, but all the ones from the article picture don't care who has access to their personal data. So, what are they rallying for, if they don't have a single file nor mail message on their own storage?

 

[doctor-don]

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.​

This is MUCH different than a search warrant since it would be a means to obtain once-secure information, and it could be used by ANY person, not just law enforcement - as though they are without fault.

Keep on keeping on, Apple.

 

[prowlmedia]

Where in heck are you coming from?

He's coming from left field... with one three left acronym pointing out the futility of it all. A war was fought on the basis there were WMDs... when it was basically completely made up.

Fear is a powerful thing and ultimately that's all The FBI are playing on here. If this did happen.

1. Instantly Criminals will not use them for ANY information.
2. Like they probably don't now anyway.
3. They use burn phones not the ones they are calling their mums on.
4. They'd use a bespoke cyrptophones which already exist.
5. 99.999999999999999999% of the rest of use with no criminal intent have phones which we can't store any bank/financial/porn on without fear that someone 'could' hack it.

Stupid government brain pool thinking.

 

[miknos]

Politicians try to remove rights from civilians. They start with "automatic guns should be banned". But as soon as this legislation passes, another one will appear. And soon everyone will have no rights at all.

Using a terrorist case is understandable. But make no mistake. It's clearly an excuse. They can use many tools to gather information like location (cell antenna), what services he was using (whatsapp, google maps, etc)…

Thing is, if kids can hide information in their phones, imagine a terrorist. He could've being using Wickr or Telegram with passwords. Even if Apple helps the FBI unlock that iPhone, it could have another layer of encryption. And the FBI won't be able to access that content.

Screw politicians who doesn't support Apple.

 

[mdridwan47]

Why do liberals always go out of their way to protect Islamist terrorist??

 

[jkeating2005]

So new car manufacturers have installed computers in cars that are able to provide details in accidents - are you rallying against that as well?

Clearly you don't drive around on the empty roads between 9 and 5. obviously everyone is working!