they have a vested interest in making the cloud work better than most. their plans for azure fall apart otherwise. So with M$ you get the benefits of the double dip of their azure R&D which aims to be the server/service in the cloud you barely notice if lucky is no longer a physical server in the server room if you go pure azure (they have hybrid options where you can keep some stuff local if you need/want to).
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Can iPad Pro replace laptop?
- Thread starter oldcelt
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they have a vested interest in making the cloud work better than most. their plans for azure fall apart otherwise. So with M$ you get the benefits of the double dip of their azure R&D which aims to be the server/service in the cloud you barely notice if lucky is no longer a physical server in the server room if you go pure azure (they have hybrid options where you can keep some stuff local if you need/want to).
Yet from Office I can't open the document in another app on iOS, only send it various places. They're doing things mostly right
Yet from Office I can't open the document in another app on iOS, only send it various places. They're doing things mostly right
Yeah, this annoys with with most apps. In this case, I was speaking of not making multiple copies of a file when editing with the native Office apps and OneDrive. Since I spend most of my time in Office, this is workable. But iOS is pretty limiting still.
Yes, you are half-correct. iCloud drive does store contents in the cloud, but also locally. For example, if I upload a video from my laptop to iCloud ( say a 550MB, 3 hr long movie ), then the movie will be accessible from any device with iCloud. I could grab my iPad and for the first time I would need WiFi to download the movie, but after that it will be stored locally, until deleted. You can test this by uploading a video using drag and drop on any computer while logged into iCloud.com ( Ubuntu, Windows, ect ) and then download the video using your iPad's iCloud Drive. Then turn off WiFi. Restart your iPad, pretty much anything except a full wipe / restore and the movie will still be there, all without turning on WiFi.
Apple users can also use AirDrop locally to move files back and forth. All of this removes the need for a physical USB drive.
Hope this makes sense.
I didn't read the whole thread so I might be doing some repeat business but here goes. I have a iPad Air 2 (treat it as a 9.7 pro for this discussion) and a 15 Macbook which my comments will be based on.
In a great many ways they do the same job. Probably 95% of my needs are met with the Air. I'm only really keeping the Macbook around because the keyboard is so damn good. That, and well, sometimes I need to be able to do more than read and run apps, sometimes I need to make things. And in a great many things, the Air is equal or better. The thing I like most about it is it's portability. Sure, a laptop is more portable than an iMac, but it's not portable in the way my Air is wrapped up in a Zagg case.
To be honest, if the iMac was a bit better, and I didn't like the Macbook keyboard so much, I'd have traded up to it and gone iPad for my remote needs. It's taken me further than any laptop I've ever owned in regards to portability.
There is one other part to this question, the 12.9 Pro. I want to like this device. It could be the replacement I need with one giant problem(s): case and keyboard. The keyboards available for it don't cut it. They don't even come close to cutting it in fact. Apple's keyboard, while more typing friendly than I expected, isn't going to work without a table, while my macbook and Air work just fine without them. Maybe a third party will fill solve this but right now you either hold it or set it on a desk. I like the real estate but until someone builds a better case/keyboard combo, not gonna happen here.
In a great many ways they do the same job. Probably 95% of my needs are met with the Air. I'm only really keeping the Macbook around because the keyboard is so damn good. That, and well, sometimes I need to be able to do more than read and run apps, sometimes I need to make things. And in a great many things, the Air is equal or better. The thing I like most about it is it's portability. Sure, a laptop is more portable than an iMac, but it's not portable in the way my Air is wrapped up in a Zagg case.
To be honest, if the iMac was a bit better, and I didn't like the Macbook keyboard so much, I'd have traded up to it and gone iPad for my remote needs. It's taken me further than any laptop I've ever owned in regards to portability.
There is one other part to this question, the 12.9 Pro. I want to like this device. It could be the replacement I need with one giant problem(s): case and keyboard. The keyboards available for it don't cut it. They don't even come close to cutting it in fact. Apple's keyboard, while more typing friendly than I expected, isn't going to work without a table, while my macbook and Air work just fine without them. Maybe a third party will fill solve this but right now you either hold it or set it on a desk. I like the real estate but until someone builds a better case/keyboard combo, not gonna happen here.
Or the Zagg. I just wish they were a bit lighter and thinner - but understand there are compromises needed to add the extra they offer.
How often do you need to rip and embed subtitles onto a film from YouTube while you're on the go?
for 70%-80% of the stuff people do on the go.
I think it's super interesting how the fuction of our devices have changed as they became more powerful. Laptops used to be the secondary device you would use while on the go. The desktop was always your preferred device of choice to get any serious work done. Now the desktop has the relegated to hard number crunching exclusively. Many people don't even own one anymore. Just like the iPad vs Laptop argument I'm sure there are plenty of people who swears by desktop. But at some point they have become a niche tool.
Tablets will definitely replace laptops someday. It already has the capability to do it for most people. Now the real question is when will the tablets win over the naysayers.
for 70%-80% of the stuff people do on the go.
I think it's super interesting how the fuction of our devices have changed as they became more powerful. Laptops used to be the secondary device you would use while on the go. The desktop was always your preferred device of choice to get any serious work done. Now the desktop has the relegated to hard number crunching exclusively. Many people don't even own one anymore. Just like the iPad vs Laptop argument I'm sure there are plenty of people who swears by desktop. But at some point they have become a niche tool.
Tablets will definitely replace laptops someday. It already has the capability to do it for most people. Now the real question is when will the tablets win over the naysayers.
That Zagg is fairly close to what I'm after. I use a Zagg on the Air 2 and it's a tank, which is what I like about it. I haven't seen anything that really does that yet but the form factor on it looked right relative to the Apple keyboard.
I gave this some more thought and it struck me that the 12.9, with keyboard and pencil, is simply too expensive to me. It's kind of a weird placement because with the keyboard and pencil you are looking at north of $1K so why not a OSX device (MacBook or MacBook Air) at that point? The keyboard will be attached, the base functionality is the same, a bit stronger even, all you lose is the touch/pencil. If you don't need the pencil, which I don't, then what's left is more real estate, nice, but with a product that works fine for me, it's not compelling enough.
This section of the Apple line is kind of interesting. It feels mixed up right now, too many OSX devices and too many iOS devices that overlap. Specific needs can tweak that but for a typical use case any of these devices can take you a long way and at the same time, maybe not quite far enough. I think the 12.9 has to come down in price and maybe significantly.
I agree that there's a lot of product overlap, but as far as price, maybe it's that Apple doesn't expect people to buy both laptop AND iPad. Well, if you want to use your iPad as a tablet, you'd still get iPad plus laptop, but you wouldn't get the Smart Keyboard or other keyboard accessory, so you'd be paying a $100 more for the iPad than you did for previous iPads, but the price doesn't get into laptop territory. If you are getting iPad + keyboard, it'd be because you are going to use it as a laptop replacement, so you won't be getting a laptop.
I agree. But I'm thinking in June we'll see things start to be streamlined. The MacBook Air is probably not going to be updated, so your laptop choices will be 2015 MacBook Airs (kept as the entry computer until they can lower the price of the MacBook) and 2016 MacBooks and MacBook Pros. I also agree with those who thinks the iPad Pro 12.9" will be updated in the Fall with the screen technology the 9.7" has, and I think the iPad Air and iPad Mini lines will just be called iPad. The choices will be a 7.9" or 9.7" iPad, or a 9.7" or 12.9" iPad Pro.
You might not, but for productivity it's necessary.
On my Mac I can take the file I made in Sketchbook Pro and open it up in Photoshop. I cannot do the same thing on my iPad Pro.
I use my 12.9 with the Apple Smart Keyboard in my lap, in the car, on one knee, and it works perfectly. I'm just curious as to why you think it needs a table? I'm using mine in my lap right now and it is just as stable as a laptop would be. I can even pick it up by the corner of the keyboard and carry it like a laptop.
Since getting the ASK, I've never once had to hold the pro.
When I played with it in the store it didn't feel stable with the keyboard out. The keyboard wanted to flop. But, that keyboard is a bit of a puzzle so maybe it takes more practice than I gave it. Still, given how I package the device, it's a no-go. I drop these things a lot, mostly headphones pulling it off a desk, so I like some assurance that it will bounce safely on landing.
I have a different experience with the ZAGG keyboard. My 1 pound iPad jumps to 2.5 lbs. The keyboard looks and feels like a mac, but is just a little clunkier. A mac air 11 even weighs just a bit less than the combined zagg and iPad.
If you add in the current 9.7 iPad Pro base at $599 and a ZAGG slimbook keyboard at $129 you are really getting close to the Mac Air 11 prices.
In my opinion the mac air IS more portable than a ZAGG clad iPad.
Really, it probably comes down to pencils vs pens or blondes vs brunettes. It comes down to personal decisions based on specific workflows. For me the Mac Air works best for typing - typing on a MBPr right now, but I read your post on my iPad.
That's the main bottleneck. No file system access = no batch jobs on files. If they would at least allow you to select more than one file or entire folders on iCloud Drive from other apps through the share sheet.
IMO that limitation of the share sheet and file type limitations are a remnant of the old Jobs thinking that all content, which was not created on your device, should be bought from Apple. I recently imported movies I took on other devices from into iCloud Photo Library. Hundreds of files which I had to recode, upload to iCloud Drive, download to the device and then save one by one into iCPL.
They can market their tablets as Pro as they want. iOS is not a replacement for a desktop OS.
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Yes, one file after another. Batch jobs are too complicated for the evolved user. tap, tap, tap, tap...
You can use them without a table, but the single fixed viewing angle is obviously the big difference that makes it more difficult.
The ASK is a compromise just like the ZAGG, Brydge, or Logitech Create keyboards. The lightest is currently the ASK and it also has the slimmest profile. The problem with the ASK is a single fixed typing angle as well as a butterfly mech keyboard with the fabric feel. Some may not like it and some will like it. For me, this is my preferred keyboard since I have the Silicone case, and I use the iPad Pro 12.9 like a normal iPad most of the time meaning that I hold it while walking, standing, sitting, laying down, etc...
The Logitech Create keyboard is pretty cool just because it's an all in one solution for laptop replacement people. It bulks up the iPad Pro 12.9 to a combined weight of over 3 pounds. That's heavier than even the 13 inch MacBook Air. That wanders into the 13 inch MacBook Pro territory and so does the bulk of the case. You are still limited to a single typing angle but at least the keyboard feels pretty decent and is backlit without the need for Bluetooth.
The ZAGG Slimbook is heavy just like the Logitech Create keyboard but has a case on the iPad Pro that can detach from the keyboard. I like this case/keyboard combo better than the Logitech since you can have multiple typing and viewing angles. The clamshell design also feels more like a laptop rather than a case. The keyboard is ok and is also backlit but it requires Bluetooth and to be charged about once every 2 months or so with backlight on. The issue with the ZAGG Slimbook is also with the plastic hinge mechanism. While it is cool and very functional, it is heavy with the keyboard attached in portrait viewing and after enough use, stress to the hinge mechanism will crack it.
Lastly, the Brydge keyboard is probably the most well built keyboard of the bunch if you can even get your hands on one. The aluminum build is good but the hinge mechanism requires your iPad Pro to be naked. While this could make the entire combination of iPad Pro 12.9 and keyboard lighter, it is instead heavier since the chassis is built from aluminum. The Brydge Keyboard by far feels the most like a full MacBook Pro of all of the keyboards but it's really heavy and provides no protection for the back of the iPad Pro. You could probably fit a gelaskin or 3M skin on the back of the iPad Pro for some scratch protection but overall, the Brydge will feel pretty exposed overall. The Brydge keyboard does have an awesome backlit Bluetooth keyboard but again, it requires charging.
If we are just talking form factor with the different keyboard case options, you could have the iPad Pro feel like a MacBook Pro but it will always be heavier than the Retina MacBook, or any MacBook Air.
The Logitech Create keyboard is pretty cool just because it's an all in one solution for laptop replacement people. It bulks up the iPad Pro 12.9 to a combined weight of over 3 pounds. That's heavier than even the 13 inch MacBook Air. That wanders into the 13 inch MacBook Pro territory and so does the bulk of the case. You are still limited to a single typing angle but at least the keyboard feels pretty decent and is backlit without the need for Bluetooth.
The ZAGG Slimbook is heavy just like the Logitech Create keyboard but has a case on the iPad Pro that can detach from the keyboard. I like this case/keyboard combo better than the Logitech since you can have multiple typing and viewing angles. The clamshell design also feels more like a laptop rather than a case. The keyboard is ok and is also backlit but it requires Bluetooth and to be charged about once every 2 months or so with backlight on. The issue with the ZAGG Slimbook is also with the plastic hinge mechanism. While it is cool and very functional, it is heavy with the keyboard attached in portrait viewing and after enough use, stress to the hinge mechanism will crack it.
Lastly, the Brydge keyboard is probably the most well built keyboard of the bunch if you can even get your hands on one. The aluminum build is good but the hinge mechanism requires your iPad Pro to be naked. While this could make the entire combination of iPad Pro 12.9 and keyboard lighter, it is instead heavier since the chassis is built from aluminum. The Brydge Keyboard by far feels the most like a full MacBook Pro of all of the keyboards but it's really heavy and provides no protection for the back of the iPad Pro. You could probably fit a gelaskin or 3M skin on the back of the iPad Pro for some scratch protection but overall, the Brydge will feel pretty exposed overall. The Brydge keyboard does have an awesome backlit Bluetooth keyboard but again, it requires charging.
If we are just talking form factor with the different keyboard case options, you could have the iPad Pro feel like a MacBook Pro but it will always be heavier than the Retina MacBook, or any MacBook Air.
Hi, well I had the iPad Pro since launch day, and want post my different POVs with just a few examples.
Few (+):
Few (-):
#Administration perspective
No F1->F10 Keyboard Keys on the Smart Keyboard, thats bad for administration of freebsd/linux over SSH.
No way to configure the keyboard delay and repeat speed in iOS, makes browsing directories/log files with e.g midnight commander/text editor over SSH using the cursor keys very slow.
Debugging Background Services (e.g. PHP, Apache, SQL-Database at log level with strace, etc.) is impossible, because often 2 or more SSH window sessions displaying at the same time is required for this. No app for that, else I use Tmux, but its a torture because of the Smart Keyboard.
Sometimes I also need to open a browser, and call something at the same time to reproduce the problem, this is also not possible.
#Game Dev perspective
No Xcode IDE, with playground or debugger, etc.
No local file system to manage mixed directories structures with different file types and game assets (bin;code;img;movs, etc.).
.Git (Working Copy App) is some kind of a workaround, but very limited, uncomfortable, slow workflow, not a pleasure to use.
No way to quickly replace files in a game assets or existing project structures, there are some workarounds but its not a pleasure to use.
Overall this is not a professional way to work (broken workflow and bad pipeline)
#Web Dev perspective
No way to debug a website, e.g. no Web Inspector/Debugger
No way to install different browsers, and debug a site running different on engines.
No Web IDE with advanced text features like search(regex) and replace over many files in sub directories or over open files, etc., column editing of text, etc.
#Database Design perspective
No way to do Database design, no App for that. e.g. like MySQL Workbench, etc.
Best option available is phpMyAdmin
#Art/Game Asset Creation perspective
No Drawing/Design App that exist on iOS and on Mac OS X(for file exchange/cross edit) with the same advanced features.
Serif (Affinity Photo/Design) didn't release their Apps yet, but its the only app i can imagine, which could eventually fix this. If someday they really release it, the iPad Pro 2 launch will be near.
Creating 3D Game Assets is not possible, No decent 3D Apps available(Zbrush, Mudbox like).
#Game Animation perspective
No decent 2D Animation App(with skeletons, inverse kinematics, frames, etc.)
No 3D Game Dev App
My conclusion:
Overall the iPad Pro is a great device, BUT doesn't deserve the "Pro" naming.
The iPad Pro can handle a bit of office here and text there + few cool Games.
But can the iPad "Pro" replace a Laptop, Desktop for professional usage? I say, No.
It doesn't even have a native calculator app.
As a companion device in addition to your Laptop or Desktop, it can be handy.
A traditional 2D Artist will enjoy the iPad Pro with ProCreate App for sure.
Of course, you have to accept the general display issue of an iPad 12.9", I didn't.
So, I sold my iPad Pro 12.9"...
...because of the missing professional iOS features.
...because of the missing professional Apps
...because of the display issues the iPad Pro 12.9" has
...because of the non international Smart Keyboard with missing F-Keys
and I moved back to my technically mature and stable working setup/pipeline: iMac 27" + Wacom Cintiq 27" + MacBook Pro 13". That way I can work professional, fast, and without any virtual barriers.
Greetings!
Few (+):
- Technically it's the best Pencil experience I ever had(lagging wise, no jitter, etc.)
- The Display is clear, bright and sharp
- iPad Pro battery last long
- Pen battery last long
Few (-):
- iPad Pro Battery charges very slow, because of the small/weak PSU.
- No way to connect an external drive directly to the iPad (Pro?)
- No local file system, its impossible to have an mixed project directory/file type structure that way. .Git (Working Copy App) comes to rescue, but its also a very complicated and slow workflow. (Pro?)
- No mouse, which is handy for vector works with precision. (Pro?)
- iOS selecting/marking text is still very complicated and erroneous, bad e.g. for coding (Pro?)
- No advanced drawing or design app available, except ProCreate, which is mainly for traditional drawing.
- No Xcode nor Swift Playground (Pro?)
- Smart Keyboard layout limited to US only (Did Apple forget, that they are offering this device across the sea?/Pro?)
- No F1-F10 Keys on the Smart Keyboard.
- Flappy Smart Keyboard, not very lap-able, too unstable on the lap.
- The Display of the iPad Pro 12" is too flexible and distorts easily, causing ripples effects and strange highlights punctual near TouchID. This is very disturbing while working concentrated, and for a >1000EUR device an no-go.
- The Printing options are very limited: e.g. No Paper type, no quality(dpi) control, no double sided printing, No duplicate on same sheet, etc. (Pro?)
- iPad Pro 12.9" + Smart Keyboard + Smart Case weights like an Macbook Pro 13", so no benefit weight wise.
#Administration perspective
No F1->F10 Keyboard Keys on the Smart Keyboard, thats bad for administration of freebsd/linux over SSH.
No way to configure the keyboard delay and repeat speed in iOS, makes browsing directories/log files with e.g midnight commander/text editor over SSH using the cursor keys very slow.
Debugging Background Services (e.g. PHP, Apache, SQL-Database at log level with strace, etc.) is impossible, because often 2 or more SSH window sessions displaying at the same time is required for this. No app for that, else I use Tmux, but its a torture because of the Smart Keyboard.
Sometimes I also need to open a browser, and call something at the same time to reproduce the problem, this is also not possible.
#Game Dev perspective
No Xcode IDE, with playground or debugger, etc.
No local file system to manage mixed directories structures with different file types and game assets (bin;code;img;movs, etc.).
.Git (Working Copy App) is some kind of a workaround, but very limited, uncomfortable, slow workflow, not a pleasure to use.
No way to quickly replace files in a game assets or existing project structures, there are some workarounds but its not a pleasure to use.
Overall this is not a professional way to work (broken workflow and bad pipeline)
#Web Dev perspective
No way to debug a website, e.g. no Web Inspector/Debugger
No way to install different browsers, and debug a site running different on engines.
No Web IDE with advanced text features like search(regex) and replace over many files in sub directories or over open files, etc., column editing of text, etc.
#Database Design perspective
No way to do Database design, no App for that. e.g. like MySQL Workbench, etc.
Best option available is phpMyAdmin
#Art/Game Asset Creation perspective
No Drawing/Design App that exist on iOS and on Mac OS X(for file exchange/cross edit) with the same advanced features.
Serif (Affinity Photo/Design) didn't release their Apps yet, but its the only app i can imagine, which could eventually fix this. If someday they really release it, the iPad Pro 2 launch will be near.
Creating 3D Game Assets is not possible, No decent 3D Apps available(Zbrush, Mudbox like).
#Game Animation perspective
No decent 2D Animation App(with skeletons, inverse kinematics, frames, etc.)
No 3D Game Dev App
My conclusion:
Overall the iPad Pro is a great device, BUT doesn't deserve the "Pro" naming.
The iPad Pro can handle a bit of office here and text there + few cool Games.
But can the iPad "Pro" replace a Laptop, Desktop for professional usage? I say, No.
It doesn't even have a native calculator app.
As a companion device in addition to your Laptop or Desktop, it can be handy.
A traditional 2D Artist will enjoy the iPad Pro with ProCreate App for sure.
Of course, you have to accept the general display issue of an iPad 12.9", I didn't.
So, I sold my iPad Pro 12.9"...
...because of the missing professional iOS features.
...because of the missing professional Apps
...because of the display issues the iPad Pro 12.9" has
...because of the non international Smart Keyboard with missing F-Keys
and I moved back to my technically mature and stable working setup/pipeline: iMac 27" + Wacom Cintiq 27" + MacBook Pro 13". That way I can work professional, fast, and without any virtual barriers.
Greetings!
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This does not happen with my 12.9 iPad Pro. Perhaps contact Apple and see if they will replace with another unit.
As for all the things you list that iPad can't do, surely you knew that the iPad can't do them before you bought it? Steve Jobs made the analogy that tablets are like cars and desktops are like trucks. Well, you sound like a person complaining that a four door sedan doesn't let you haul all your belongings when moving.
But yes, Apple should release non-US Smart Keyboard layouts already! That, I agree with.
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Well I was already at two Apple Stores (Genius Bar) and even sent it in, but simply got it back.
They say its a normal behaviour(thickness + big display + free space at this area)
At the Store they showed me the same "issue" on 4 different iPad Pros.
Said to me I have to Accept it how it is.
Anyway I sold it already, and just wanted to share my experiences, regardless of the display issue.
But the display took the last barrier i had of not selling it.
I knew all the iOS limitations already, but a "PRO" naming with such a statement:
Tim Cook: “Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people.”
I know it will never fully replace a Laptop or Desktop for Professionals that way.
But they shouldn't have named it "Pro".
I expected a bit more of the "Pro" naming, maybe some special iPad Pro iOS update or so, or Xcode Mobile. Simply something more special regarding the "Pro" naming and context.
But at the moment it's simply a non-pro iPad with normal iOS like iPhone, with technically great Pencil, faster GPU, faster CPU, more RAM, and flappy Keyboard. That's all.
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Thank you for that very informative analysis. But please understand that just because something has 'Pro' in its title (which is primarily a marketing term, anyway) doesn't mean it is targeted toward every profession. In all the ads I've seen made by Apple, it's clear that you are not their target customer. And just because it's not a laptop replacement for you (or me), doesn't mean it's not one for someone else. There are plenty of people throughout this forum who have said they use the iPad Pro as a professional tool, and it has replaced their laptop.
Exactly. A cooking knife can be marketed as a "pro" knife, and be suitable for chefs to use in restaurants. Doesn't mean you can use that knife to do surgery.
Exactly, those who have the most demanding workload are the one's who are the first to shout about how the ipp is not even close to being a computer replacement. A high end laptop would barely cut it, a tablet never will. Not an iPad, not a surface, nothing.
As you stated, the iPad is more than professional enough for many people who use it in their professional settings.
If we were to take all computer users from casual Facebookers to the most demanding users, I would be willing to bet that at least 75-80 percent of the computer using population could use an iPad as their only computing device, and never need anything else other than their phone.
So yes, when Tim says that the ipp could replace a laptop or computer for many many people, he's exactly right.