Can someone explain 64 bit vs 32 bit in basic english?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by rockitdog, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. rockitdog macrumors 68020

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    #1
    Seems like Apple is the only phone maker (so far) to make their devices 64 bit. Most Androids (even the newest, the nexus 6) are still not 64 bit. What is the advantage to having a 64 bit device vs a 32 bit device?
     
  2. GoSh4rks, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014

    GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #3
    To the end user, there is no difference or advantage that is specific to 32bit/64bit.
     
  3. willmtaylor macrumors G3

    willmtaylor

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    #4
    That's what Qualcomm's former chief marketing officer, Anand Chandrasekher, thought too. :rolleyes:
     
  4. kepler20b macrumors 6502

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    #5
    zero real life impact on you.


    it's purely marketing.
     
  5. geoff5093 macrumors 68020

    geoff5093

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    #6
    Purely marketing, especially with only 1GB of RAM
     
  6. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #7
    Well the knowledge of 32 or 64 bit on its own isn't that meaningful to an end user. They may however benefit from the results.
     
  7. AppleDApp macrumors 68020

    AppleDApp

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    #8
    At least on PC's 64bit architecture can take advantage of more than 4gb of RAM whereas 32 bit archtecture can't.

    So this would be paving the way for when iOS requires more RAM.
     
  8. willmtaylor, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014

    willmtaylor macrumors G3

    willmtaylor

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    #9
    Which one would never know from the replies to the OP thus far. Everyone is screaming it's marketing BS, but evidently no one is informed enough to actually answer the thread started. Lots to say but nothing to add it would seem.
     
  9. GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #10
    In this thread, the only marketing BS is coming from you. There is "nothing to add" because to the end user, nothing is different between 32bit and 64bit devices that can be traced directly to 32/64. The consumer can do the exact same things on each device.

    If iOS starts pushing 4gb+ and other devices can't because of 32bit, then we can talk about advantages. (I don't believe this will actually be the case at any point)
     
  10. Bahroo, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014

    Bahroo macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Everybody is pretty much wrong in here, there are instant benefits to 64 bit already even under 4 GB of RAM, the ARMv8 architecture brings more CPU registers, and other things

    When apps get recompiled to 64 bit code, automatically they gain 10% performance boost on that alone due to the fact that the app can use more CPU registers now, (and not even accounting other benefits of going to 64 bit, but Touch ID is not possible without the 64 bit chip because it uses the brand new ARM TrustZone that comes with ARMv8 to make sure our fingerprints are secure and stay secure :cool: )

    Anand shows differences with running applications in AArch64 (ARM 64 bit) and AArch32 (ARM 32 bit)

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

    "Apple isn’t very focused on delivering a larger memory address space today however. As A64 is a brand new ISA, there are other benefits that come along with the move. Similar to the x86-64 transition, the move to A64 comes with an increase in the number of general purpose registers. ARMv7 had 15 general purpose registers (and 1 register for the program counter), while ARMv8/A64 now has 31 that are each 64-bits wide. All 31 registers are accessible at all times. Increasing the number of architectural registers decreases register pressure and can directly impact performance. The doubling of the register space with x86-64 was responsible for up to a 10% increase in performance."


    "ARMv8 also adds some new cryptographic instructions for hardware acceleration of AES and SHA1/SHA256 algorithms. These hardware AES/SHA instructions have the potential for huge increases in performance, just like we saw with the introduction of AES-NI on Intel CPUs a few years back. Both the new advanced SIMD instructions and AES/SHA instructions are really designed to enable a new wave of iOS apps."

    ARMv8 being 64 bit on ARM chips,

    Not only that, 64 bit chips run 32 bit code better then a 32 bit processor can and does, in Geekbench 3 running the application in 32 bit mode on the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus gives a single core score of about 1050 and multi core score of about 2100

    When Geekbench 3 is in 64 bit mode (the scores we have seen already) the 6 and 6 Plus get about 1625 single core score and 2950 multi core score in Geekbench 3, quite a difference between 32 bit and 64 bit there

    People who spout "64 bit is a gimmick and is useless under 4GB of RAM" do not know what they are talking about, this is why the Qualcomm executive who claimed the A7 was a "gimmick" is well was the former executive, he got fired pretty much immediately because that was such a ridiculous non sensical statement

    You can't do computational photography on 32 bit and
    You cannot have a secure enclave for touch ID and biometrics without 64-bit.

    All applications by February 2015 have to be submitted with 64-bit code/support in it, this means everyone with a A7 device and up is and are going to get performance enhancements and stability improvements From the 64-bit architecture instantly, we will see a nice speed boost and improvements from our apps from them being updated to 64 bit, the ones that are not updated yet to 64 bit, and that is just one of many ways developers gain extra performance , whether it is from the hardware or software improvements, 64 bit is no gimmick at all, once again just ask the Qualcomm executive who said it was , see where he is at now, FIRED! :rolleyes:

    Apple A7 runs 64 bit code 30% better and faster then 32 bit code, and the A8 runs 64 bit code 40% faster and better then 32 bit code, switching apps to AArch64\64-bit binary and code is going to give 5S/Air/Air 2/Mini 2 with A7/6 and 6 Plus about a 30-40% performance boost in applications that are not updated yet.... Can't wait
     
  11. ET iPhone Home, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014

    ET iPhone Home macrumors 68040

    ET iPhone Home

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    #12
    Essentially, 64Bit can handle more Ram. This is a plus for laptops and computers that are equipped with more than 4GB Ram memory. Apps that are 64Bit are able to access more Ram (memory) enabling better performance than those that are 32Bit. With Apple hosting only 1GB Ram in their iPhones, question if there are any benefits other that future proofing these apps to perform better when one day Apple increases to 2GB Ram.
     
  12. rugmankc Contributor

    rugmankc

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    #13
  13. GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #14
    None of this actually means anything to a consumer.

    64bit is faster than 32bit if you are comparing the same design. But we're not. We're talking about different CPU designs and strategies here - speed differences are going to be evident on each side.

    The bottom line is that as an end user, there is nothing that can be done on 64bit iOS that you can't on 32bit Android which is solely attributed to 64/32bit.
     
  14. willmtaylor macrumors G3

    willmtaylor

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    #15
    Now that you've been schooled by others, let me go ahead and ask: if you're going with the whole "I'm rubber you're glue" schtick and saying I'm the one with the marketing BS, what exactly am I selling again?:rolleyes:
     
  15. Bahroo macrumors 68000

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    #16
    And that is where you are immediately wrong, Touch ID is not possible without ARMv8, as it uses the brand new ARM TrustZone architecture that comes with ARMv8. And how is speed performance enhancements and more advanced encryption not going to be noticeable to the end user lol? By February 2015, all applications have to be submitted with 64 bit support , the apps that haven't been updated to 64 bit yet will see stability and performance enhancements solely due to ARMv8/64-bit alone, not even considering other ways to optimize apps and get better performance (like streamlining resources, fixing memory leaks etc)

    Design has really no relevancy here as basically all SoC's essentially use the ARM ISA. Apple's CPU designs past 2 years in the A8/A7 is absolutely powerful good pieces of engineering and has had the competition extremely hot on it's heels with Apple's chip design prowess, Apple is going the Intel route here, going for stronger single core performance rather then just throwing more cores at it, look who won out that battle (Intel vs AMD) A Intel quad core outperforms and beats a octo core higher clocked AMD CPU, reasons being inferior architecture, worse single core performance etc...throwing more cores at it does not always and usually doesnt translate to linear performance increases in software/hardware world
     
  16. GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #17
    64/32 is all marketing at this point. Like for like, 64 is faster than 32. Fine. But we aren't comparing like for like.

    Apple has better single threaded performance. Others have better multi-threaded performance. Different philosophies. Apart from speed differences, there is no advantage to 64bit.

    There is nothing that can be done on 64bit iOS that you can't on 32bit Android which is solely attributed to 64/32bit.
     
  17. Bahroo macrumors 68000

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    #18
    This aswell, the new functions that come with ARMv8 brings immediate benefits in audio processing, video processing, etc, things like that

    ----------

    Damage control....the 5S and 6 absolutely crush Android devices and the competition in raw audio processing and video processing, largely due to the new 64 bit architecture, and other examples, allows for better encryption aswell using newer SHA/AES, Touch ID is not possible without 64 bit chip/ARMv8, and other examples
     
  18. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #19
    As others have pointed out, they aren't actually constrained on address space. They can address data in larger chunks, but I wouldn't actually tell someone to buy one thing over another specifically because one is 64 bit. It's a contributing detail rather than an absolute. It's not so much a case of every 64 bit cpu is faster than every 32 bit cpu, even comparing hardware from the same computing generation. For an end user it matters more what they do it it, although I noticed someone posted some nice examples right above this.
     
  19. GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #20
    That doesn't mean that you can't have something similar without ARMv8. Fingerprint readers have been around long before ARMv8. Different implementation strategies.
     
  20. Bahroo macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Not at the speed and accuracy and security of the Touch ID on the new iPhone's on mobile devices certainly
     
  21. GoSh4rks macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Apple and Android manufacturers have different philsophies about 64/32bit. One isn't necessary more right or wrong than the other.

    It doesn't matter that Android is still running 32bit - they're still competitive without any major disadvantages due to that fact.

    When comparing Android devices to Apple devices, 64/32 bit should not be on the pro/con list because such low level differences don't actually affect anything to the end user. Rather, specific features such as TouchID and single thread performance should be the things that are compared.
     
  22. burnsranch macrumors member

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    Jun 19, 2013
    #23
    Think of it like a lawn mower cutting grass, (data). You can cut with a 32 inch mower deck or a 64 inch mower deck. How much grass you have is how much memory you have to work with.
    If the microcoder writes code expressly for a 64 bit data register, the app will run much faster.

    I have not dug into processor design in 25 years, but there are a lot of other issues that are processor dependent.
     
  23. Appl3FTW macrumors 603

    Appl3FTW

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    #24
    explain 32 bit vs. 64 bit in plain english?

    well 64 bit is 32 bit more than 32 bit. :cool:
     
  24. bizack macrumors 6502

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    #25
    So this is a long thread of wrong. It's not marketing hype, and without getting into chip design specifics, you can take this directly from the iOS dev docs (the dev docs don't contain marketing hype):

    When desktop operating systems transitioned from 32-bit to 64-bit addressing, 64-bit apps were critical to the OS transition. Now, iOS is getting a similar desktop-class architecture. Starting with iOS 7 and the A7 processor, you can build iOS apps that take advantage of 64-bit processors. An app that supports 64-bit processing almost always gains improved performance when compared with a 32-bit app running on the same device.

    ----------

    There's also this:

    The 64-bit architecture supports a new and streamlined instruction set that supports twice as many integer and floating-point registers. Apple’s LLVM compiler has been optimized to take full advantage of this new architecture. As a result, 64-bit apps can work with more data at once for improved performance. Apps that extensively use 64-bit integer math or custom NEON operations see even larger performance gains. So, even though 32-bit apps already run faster on the A7 processor than they did on earlier processors, converting apps to 64-bit almost always provides better performance.

    TL;DR

    Faster math = better perceivable performance.
     

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