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iPhone 16/Plus Can we return our iPhone 16s due to cancelled Siri?
- Thread starter facedmurkroots
- Start date
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Got it. So to put it simply: a company can advertise that a product has certain features, but if it turns out they can't deliver them yet, they just take the ad down—even though the product is already being sold. I understand, I really do. It's not that they can’t do it, it’s just that they’ll do it later.
And according to your answer, you’re fine with that approach and don’t consider it misleading.
Well… I don’t know how things are taught in other countries, or what values people grow up with, but where I’m from, we teach kids something pretty basic: don’t go around saying things you can’t follow through on.
Of course, I get it—it’s not that it can’t be done, it’s just going to be done later. Because you know how life is: project deadlines, anniversary dinners, your kid’s big game… being late is better than never showing up, right? As long as you eventually deliver, no one should complain, right?
Alright then, I understand now. No worries. I just wanted to be sure I was clear on where you all stand.
This very much reminds me of a Pioneer SACD player I bought in 2019. It had Dolby Vision and HDR10 BUT was advertised as receiving HDR10+ in an upcoming firmware update. This was displayed on Pioneer's official page, dates moved back constantly but still promising, reviews mentioning same, phone and e-mail support also. After some years, and many forum mentions, it was silently laid to rest and traces of previous mentions removed from official support pages.
Doesn't mean anything. You or I could file a lawsuit against them tomorrow, but it won't get very far. Apple will walk away without any repercussions I'd expect. We shall see...
I thought lawsuits would start when iOS19 is released to the public and smarter Siri wasn't implemented yet. If new Siri is released before then, technically Apple didn't mislead the public about anything. They definitely delayed the release but it's still would be under the iOS18 umbrella. I wouldn't be surprised if it's all hands on deck right now to release the promised Siri changes by the end of the iOS18 cycle. If this does turn out to be a big PR mess that damages their image and losses from litigation, Craig Federighi should lose his job. It's not like the software that's been released under his tenure has been stellar.
You are an absolute broken record and you keep getting the same stuff wrong every time.
They never advertised that the product "has certain features." This is 100% false. They only ever said that these features are due to come out later (and they have actually delivered on a bunch of the features that they said would come out already...).
I'll ask for the 10th time. WHAT, SPECIFICLY DID APPLE SAY THAT YOU THINK WAS A LIE? OR FALSE ADVERTISING, OR EVEN MISLEADING????
Do not reply with a word salad. Do not reply with anecdotes. Do not reply with gibberish or nonsense. Provide me a link or direct quote to something Apple said would happen that did not happen.
Project deadlines: specific dates
anniversary dinners: specific dates
kid's big game: specific dates
the general concept of "being late" requires a specific date.
Maybe where you're from the schools just don't cover these concepts very well for you to be able to tell the difference?
They already switched the head of the project from their AI guy to the Vision Pro guy. They are definitely admitting that they have screwed up this timeline and are already suffering public shame. I do want to clarify based on my posts in this thread that I do think this is a pretty huge screw up for them and is only growing larger with each passing day. I just don't like people making it out to be anything other than what it is.
You do bring up a good point though that if it isn't included with an ios 18 update and we get to ios 19 without it, it very well might escalate into a different issue.
I'm reading the lawsuit now. It seems to largely hinge on 3 articles from apple (from June, September, and October of 2024 respectively).
The June article
The September article
The October article
The June article is an overview of everything to expect with Apple Intelligence. It really doesn't talk much about a timeline, but does include this fine print at the end:
The September article is about the upcoming launch of Apple Intelligence. It is hyped, but clearly states that not everything will be available at launch and many features won't come out until the "months following this year."
The October article is similar, but at the actual launch of Apple Intelligence. They locked in the timeline for the features coming out in 2024 (December), but still refer to all the other features as coming out "In the months to come"
I'm no lawyer, but I just don't see a judge holding a company accountable for saying features are coming "in the months to come" (of 2025) when the features are not yet available 2 1/2 months into the year.
They also highlight the fine print of the commercials Apple ran that said some features would be available "in the next year" (meaning 2025)
This basically gives Apple until the end of 2025 to launch the features from the commercials.
Many are saying that Apple has already said that these features won't be available until 2026, but the exact words of their release was "in the upcoming year". I think that vague wording was used intentionally to mean either "2026" or "in the next 12 months" or even "in the bulk of 2025 that is ahead of us"
This basically gives Apple until the end of 2025 to launch the features from the commercials.
Many are saying that Apple has already said that these features won't be available until 2026, but the exact words of their release was "in the upcoming year". I think that vague wording was used intentionally to mean either "2026" or "in the next 12 months" or even "in the bulk of 2025 that is ahead of us"
i understand your frustration but demanding Apple something had never worked, they have it their own way and seems like it is working – investors are happy, incomes quadruple, userbase is growing etc.
My logic is if you see a new device you shall only look for features it comes with, not the ones that they tell they are going to bring in the future.
For example this year I hadn’t seen anything revolutionary in new iPhones that is worth to upgrade from my iPhone. AI is not something I need to be built into the phone, Grok app saves the day for me (I absolutely love they have made an app, I dislike having to use X just to get info from Grok). Before I had used Poe from Quora but I don’t like that the models it gives access to are not as up-to-date and often unsure of the answers they provide me.
Siri AI? Well I am always looking for even better AI but until they get rid of ChatGPT and their UGLY image generator I am not hyping for it
My logic is if you see a new device you shall only look for features it comes with, not the ones that they tell they are going to bring in the future.
For example this year I hadn’t seen anything revolutionary in new iPhones that is worth to upgrade from my iPhone. AI is not something I need to be built into the phone, Grok app saves the day for me (I absolutely love they have made an app, I dislike having to use X just to get info from Grok). Before I had used Poe from Quora but I don’t like that the models it gives access to are not as up-to-date and often unsure of the answers they provide me.
Siri AI? Well I am always looking for even better AI but until they get rid of ChatGPT and their UGLY image generator I am not hyping for it
Here's an alternative perspective. (LONG)
Note: I have no skin in this game; still rocking an iPhone SE from 2016, have no interest in AI, had no interest in the iPhone 16, and paid little attention to Apple's hype last summer. But my quick review suggests Apple misled consumers and is in trouble.
For example, the lead photo for last summer's key ad declares the forthcoming iPhone 16 Pro will have Apple Intelligence.
One of the Apple Intelligence iPhone 16 ads includes this caption at the bottom at :37
“Apple Intelligence coming in 2024 with Siri”
www.adweek.com
AI buzz was everywhere, and many, if not most, people figure that, while Apple comes late to many tech parties, it usually gets it right. Apple promised AI's imminent arrival (Fall 2024) — and when the world's most highly valued company with a superb reputation does so — people naturally believe it. After all, historically, what Apple declares in summer keynotes and ads does show up in the shipping products in the fall.
The taking down of what must be the most critical ad is tantamount to an admission of guilt or, at least, confessing to over promising and overhyping.
www.afr.com
The lawyers have likely rounded up a bunch of people who will, persuasively, argue they thought Apple Intelligence was coming in 2024 for their iPhone 16.
It's easy to see how many buyers — even those who did some homework — were lured. See, for starters,
en.softonic.com
9to5mac.com
Some tech writers were explicitly encouraging upgrades to iPhone 16 for Apple Intelligence.
www.zdnet.com
Even ZDNet's skeptic on the AI for the iPhone 16 noted that his colleague deemed it “an essential upgrade” and that many anticipate it will provide “game-changing usability”, something he questioned.
www.zdnet.com
——————
By the way, does anyone have a link to the ad they pulled? Say, via archive.org ? Would love to see it and evaluate just what it promised that has freaked out Apple and its lawyers…even more than the two that remain up!
Note: I have no skin in this game; still rocking an iPhone SE from 2016, have no interest in AI, had no interest in the iPhone 16, and paid little attention to Apple's hype last summer. But my quick review suggests Apple misled consumers and is in trouble.
For example, the lead photo for last summer's key ad declares the forthcoming iPhone 16 Pro will have Apple Intelligence.
“More Personal Siri.
iPhone 16 Pro.
Hello, Apple Intelligence.”
One of the Apple Intelligence iPhone 16 ads includes this caption at the bottom at :37
“Apple Intelligence coming in 2024 with Siri”
Apple Intelligence Debut Ads Star Bella Ramsey
The debut ads for Apple Intelligence star Emmy- and Golden Globe-nominated actress Bella Ramsey.
www.adweek.com
Another ad in the series has the same caption at :27.
See https://www.thedrum.com/news/2024/09/16/bella-ramsey-stars-iphone-16-ad-promoting-apple-intelligence
AI buzz was everywhere, and many, if not most, people figure that, while Apple comes late to many tech parties, it usually gets it right. Apple promised AI's imminent arrival (Fall 2024) — and when the world's most highly valued company with a superb reputation does so — people naturally believe it. After all, historically, what Apple declares in summer keynotes and ads does show up in the shipping products in the fall.
The taking down of what must be the most critical ad is tantamount to an admission of guilt or, at least, confessing to over promising and overhyping.
“Apple just pulled an iPhone ad. The move shows it’s now in crisis
In the tech firm’s commercial for its new AI software, Last of Us star Bella Ramsay enters a party, sees someone whose name she can’t recall, and asks Siri for help. But the feature doesn’t exist yet.”
Apple just pulled an iPhone ad. The move shows it’s now in crisis
An AI update to bring Siri into the agentic era has been delayed, placing the tech giant in a bind as it races to make other big changes to its devices.
The lawyers have likely rounded up a bunch of people who will, persuasively, argue they thought Apple Intelligence was coming in 2024 for their iPhone 16.
It's easy to see how many buyers — even those who did some homework — were lured. See, for starters,
Apple’s intelligence shines in these three fun ads - Softonic
Apple has released three new videos to highlight the features of Apple Intelligence on the iPhone 16. These features demonstrate an intelligent use of
What is Apple Intelligence? Here’s what the iPhone 16’s AI can do - 9to5Mac
Apple Intelligence is Apple’s new suite of AI features coming to the iPhone, Mac, and iPad starting in October. Here’s what you should know.
9to5mac.com
Some tech writers were explicitly encouraging upgrades to iPhone 16 for Apple Intelligence.
“Six reasons why I'm buying an iPhone 16
1. Apple's AI
- Upgrade reason: Must-buy new feature
- Motivation: Need for work AI coverage, plus consistency across all my devices”
6 reasons why iOS 18 makes the iPhone 16 a must-upgrade for me
iOS 18 is forcing me to upgrade my iPhone 12 Pro Max. Here's why.
www.zdnet.com
Even ZDNet's skeptic on the AI for the iPhone 16 noted that his colleague deemed it “an essential upgrade” and that many anticipate it will provide “game-changing usability”, something he questioned.
“In August, my friend and colleague David Gewirtz explained why he considers the upcoming iPhone 16, with its focus on iOS 18 and Apple Intelligence, an essential upgrade. While I value David's perspective, I have a different take.
David argues that the incorporation of artificial intelligence (AI) in iOS 18 makes the iPhone 16 a necessary upgrade, emphasizing the potential of Apple Intelligence to revolutionize our interaction with devices. While I agree that Apple Intelligence has long-term potential, I'm not convinced that its first iteration will deliver the game-changing usability that many anticipate.”
Why you shouldn't buy the iPhone 16 for Apple Intelligence
I upgrade my iPhone every year, but I'm not excited about the iPhone 16. Here's why.
www.zdnet.com
Apple will realize it has a major legal problem, that a jury could be readily convinced it acted improperly, and, after acting tough, will settle to make it all go away and limit its reputational damage.——————
By the way, does anyone have a link to the ad they pulled? Say, via archive.org ? Would love to see it and evaluate just what it promised that has freaked out Apple and its lawyers…even more than the two that remain up!
You seem to be saying/claiming that Apple Intelligence didn't come out. It did. It has lots of features (I'm incredibly unimpressed with them, but they do exist). Even the first tier of improved Siri came out. I don't think anything you posted shows apple being misleading or making false claims at all.
The only thing that seems damning to me are the video ads that they ran showing the ultimate capabilities of AI Siri, but those ran with this fine print on the bottom of the screen:
I just don't see it. How could anyone possibly feel misled by this?
The only thing that seems damning to me are the video ads that they ran showing the ultimate capabilities of AI Siri, but those ran with this fine print on the bottom of the screen:
Screenshots of this ad with that disclaimer and Bella Ramsey on the screen are included in the lawsuit filing against Apple.
I just don't see it. How could anyone possibly feel misled by this?
For the 9 page, no you cannot return it for that reason. How many times do you have to be told and others that you cannot return it for that reason but you can return for any reason if you don’t like it within the two week period. After that, you’re out of luck. Now get on with life and put end to this.
LOL, no one really cares what you have to say in this thread. The other thread—yeah, the one on the MacRumors front page about Apple getting sued over this very issue—has already reached ten pages of discussion. And yet, magically, the most devoted Apple loyalists are nowhere to be seen.
So when it comes to those two questions I asked earlier, anyone who answers "Yes/No"—whom I’ve come to regard as people with the lowest moral standards—well, honestly, anything they say is just noise at this point. From what I can see, the two of you are just hiding out here, feeling good about yourselves in your own little echo chamber.
These are company’s on the edge of technological innovation. Because of this, things won’t always go perfect. Apple certainly did nothing on purpose yet people are always ready to attack. I don’t quite get it.
Suing only makes lawyers richer. Anyone who thinks they’re doing it for some common good is kidding themselves. The Internet has become a megaphone for hate, anxiety and mindless dribble. All we can do is sit back and be entertained by it.
The Apple Intelligence features are delayed not cancelled. That means they will be coming at a later date whenever that is. So no, just because it isn't coming as soon as we thought, doesn't mean you can return because of this.
i haven't read all the posts in this thread. just scanned a few. sorry.
my thoughts:
im sure we all know that the fine print (that we never read entirely for almost anything) is a company's attempt to protect itself from any responsibilities it might have legally, for just about anything.
im also sure that most of the people reading this forum are more tech aware than the average person.
im also sure that class action lawyers were salivating over this.
the fact is that software features get delayed all the time. and class action suits usually would fail if based on only or primarily a delay in implementation of that software feature, even if a new iiPhone were purchased because:
the buyer felt his/her purchase is primarily based on the:
"great new software advertised / demo-ed / announced / depicted / coming / implied / stated".
but please note that in all of the verbs above, none include "guaranteed or promised". In fact, there is likely some fine print somewhere that explicitly in legal-ese says that the company isn't promising or guaranteeing anything.
especially in the current climate of anti-consumer rights that the USA is in, its very possible that a class action lawsuit will probably be unsuccessful.
my thoughts:
im sure we all know that the fine print (that we never read entirely for almost anything) is a company's attempt to protect itself from any responsibilities it might have legally, for just about anything.
im also sure that most of the people reading this forum are more tech aware than the average person.
im also sure that class action lawyers were salivating over this.
the fact is that software features get delayed all the time. and class action suits usually would fail if based on only or primarily a delay in implementation of that software feature, even if a new iiPhone were purchased because:
the buyer felt his/her purchase is primarily based on the:
"great new software advertised / demo-ed / announced / depicted / coming / implied / stated".
but please note that in all of the verbs above, none include "guaranteed or promised". In fact, there is likely some fine print somewhere that explicitly in legal-ese says that the company isn't promising or guaranteeing anything.
especially in the current climate of anti-consumer rights that the USA is in, its very possible that a class action lawsuit will probably be unsuccessful.