Can we talk about film?

[mollyc]

Works out around 14MP which is fine for my needs. I did consider buying a macro lens or adapting it but I figured if I'm going to spend the money on stuff I think I'd rather do an "okish" job of scanning and invest in printing as it looks more fun that sitting in front of the computer all day (the day job).

I shoot mostly color film so darkroom printing would be a lot harder. I also don't really have place in my house to make a darkroom as we have an open concept house with a lot of windows.

I like the idea of printing but I just don't know what I would do with a bunch of prints. I do have a good photo printer so print 4x6 every day but for me I just can't fathom what I would do with a zillion darkroom prints. Even though I'm super intrigued by the process. Plus I'd end up scanning everything anyway so that I could share it electronically.

What will you do with all your prints?

 

[cjsuk]

I recently met a real old-timer film photographer, and when I mentioned my home developing/scanning setup, he raised his brows and said "Scanning? Scanning? You're not making prints?" He sounded positively offended. 🤣

I get his point 🤣. There's nothing like holding that print in your hand!

 

[cjsuk]

I shoot mostly color film so darkroom printing would be a lot harder. I also don't really have place in my house to make a darkroom as we have an open concept house with a lot of windows.

I like the idea of printing but I just don't know what I would do with a bunch of prints. I do have a good photo printer so print 4x6 every day but for me I just can't fathom what I would do with a zillion darkroom prints. Even though I'm super intrigued by the process. Plus I'd end up scanning everything anyway so that I could share it electronically.

What will you do with all your prints?

Yeah I am purposely avoiding colour here. I used to do C41 at home back in the 80s with my father and it was painful to say the least.

Similar situation with darkroom space. I have a shower/toilet room with a sink it's going to have to fit in somewhere. I'll work it out. I like in the middle of London so space costs a lot of money!

As for the prints, a good question. I intend to actually do some very mindful prints, more "art" than making loads of them. They might get framed. I don't know. I have a few projects in mind though including travel collage as I do a lot of travelling and abstract architecture etc. Time will tell. I have the attention span of a gnat so I'll probably have sold it all by end of 2026 after doing about 5 prints though 🤣

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I like the idea of printing but I just don't know what I would do with a bunch of prints. I do have a good photo printer so print 4x6 every day but for me I just can't fathom what I would do with a zillion darkroom prints. Even though I'm super intrigued by the process. Plus I'd end up scanning everything anyway so that I could share it electronically.

I love the idea of being able to make prints, but aren’t they pretty size-constrained by whatever kinds of photo paper you can buy? There’s only so many small prints I want to hang on a wall.

 

[mollyc]

I love the idea of being able to make prints, but aren’t they pretty size-constrained by whatever kinds of photo paper you can buy? There’s only so many small prints I want to hang on a wall.

My printer prints up to 13x19" and I have that size paper. But mostly I print 4x6 and keep them in a little notebook.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

A while back someone handed me a box of "film stuff" - inside were several broken 35mm point and shoots, a Ricoh KR-10 (working, gave it to my brother), and a small pile of film, all presumably expired and never stored in a freezer.

Amongst the film were a number of rolls of Ektachrome. I haven't shot slide film before, but I grabbed one at random and shot it in my Canon EOS-1n to see what would happen. I just got the scans back from TheDarkroom.com, and am relieved to see they all developed:

Wow, those colors. Most of the shots (and sadly a couple of the best) were of people I can't share, so apologies for the staid subject matter. Turns out the roll I grabbed was Ektachrome E100VS, the VS apparently standing for 'Vivid Saturation" - a film stock that was apparently was discontinued in 2012. Really fine grained too, I am impressed by how sharp it looks. I relied on the EOS-1n's meter and am relieved that the exposures generally came out OK.

I have one more roll of this E100VS, and four rolls of E100G from this pile - apparently the current E100 you can buy is a reformulated version of the E100G. There's also a roll of Kodak 100UC in there. Given the costs of shooting slide film, I won't be blowing through this E100 stuff too fast, but I love the way it looks even with me behind the camera. I hope the remaining rolls are in as good of shape.

 

[cjsuk]

Oh that looks rather good. Nice one.

I read a thread somewhere on Reddit about thedarkroom.com as several people confirming that they had lost rolls because their mailing bags came open. You have been warned.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Oh that looks rather good. Nice one.

I read a thread somewhere on Reddit about thedarkroom.com as several people confirming that they had lost rolls because their mailing bags came open. You have been warned.

Really? They did swap one of my rolls once with someone else a couple years back. They never found my roll but gave me a coupon for free development. Otherwise they've been fine, I've had them do almost 30 rolls for me. But I've read plenty of hate about them on the internet. Hard to find any place to get film developed that hasn't gotten some bad reviews though.

I use my own (well-taped) sturdy padded mailer when sending to them - the one they use looks horribly flimsy. This roll of Ektachrome was part of batch of 6 rolls they just processed for me. My biggest complaint about TheDarkroom is that their 'enhanced' scans are still a lot lower resolution than what my home scanning rig produces. But I get the negs back.

 

[mollyc]

A while back someone handed me a box of "film stuff" - inside were several broken 35mm point and shoots, a Ricoh KR-10 (working, gave it to my brother), and a small pile of film, all presumably expired and never stored in a freezer.

Amongst the film were a number of rolls of Ektachrome. I haven't shot slide film before, but I grabbed one at random and shot it in my Canon EOS-1n to see what would happen. I just got the scans back from TheDarkroom.com, and am relieved to see they all developed:

View attachment 2587306View attachment 2587307View attachment 2587309View attachment 2587308


Wow, those colors. Most of the shots (and sadly a couple of the best) were of people I can't share, so apologies for the staid subject matter. Turns out the roll I grabbed was Ektachrome E100VS, the VS apparently standing for 'Vivid Saturation" - a film stock that was apparently was discontinued in 2012. Really fine grained too, I am impressed by how sharp it looks. I relied on the EOS-1n's meter and am relieved that the exposures generally came out OK.

I have one more roll of this E100VS, and four rolls of E100G from this pile - apparently the current E100 you can buy is a reformulated version of the E100G. There's also a roll of Kodak 100UC in there. Given the costs of shooting slide film, I won't be blowing through this E100 stuff too fast, but I love the way it looks even with me behind the camera. I hope the remaining rolls are in as good of shape.

pretty impressive for expired slide film

 

[Lord Blackadder]

pretty impressive for expired slide film

Unsure how old it is, but at least 13 years.

 

[cjsuk]

The rabbit hole got deeper here thanks to eBay.

Rather nice condition, boxed and came with a Nikon CP-2 lens which is perfect - no fungus or anything. Looks like it has never been used!

 

[cjsuk]

Urgh this is such a rabbit hole. Darkroom progress being made, despite a nasty cold. Enlarger is in the bedroom on its own table. Fully tested after finally remembering how to use the things after a 30 year gap. Paper, chemicals and timer on the way. Should be printing over Christmas holiday.

----

Mini rant, probably sort of on topic as the film shooting is really driving this. I bought a Z5ii a while back to replace my DX mirrorless kit as I wasn't particularly happy with a few things about it in low light. The sensor on the Z5ii is wonderful. Found after using it for a few weeks though that the thing is incredibly painful to use as the lenses are so damn heavy, even the primes. Borrowed a D750 off a colleague for a couple of days and shoved the 35mm f/2 AF-D off my F80 on it. Wow so much nicer to use. Better user interface. After going back, I realised that the mirrorless / EVF interface is horrible and I don't like it. The D750 and F80 feel much closer to reality. No disconnection. That real viewfinder is important. Plus they are like driving gas cars. The mirrorless is an EV - really slick but damn frustrating and the thing is in your face every two seconds and you have to work out what it's complaining about. So I have managed to snag a very low shutter count D750 body on a private sale and will shift the mirrorless kit. I got the mirrorless stuff on sale and bagged student discount so I can sell it for slightly more than what I paid for it on eBay after Nikon winter deals end. That'll cover the D750, an 85mm prime and a week in Slovenia with some rolls of HP5!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The mirrorless camera I have is the most complex camera I’ve ever used. There are an overwhelming list of menus and features. you always get the sense that you’ve failed to calibrate something or set something buried in there. And the battery life is poor. The body is smaller and lighter than a DSLR - arguably too small to be ideal ergonomically, especially as the lenses have not gotten smaller.

In many ways they are the best cameras ever produced, but they do have their shortcomings.

To be fair, when it was released my EOS 1n was criticized for having too many buttons and menus and features. Today it feels quaintly simple compared to mirrorless cameras.

 

[dimme]

My favorite camera I have ever used was a Nikon FM2.Just shutter, aperture controls and basic light meter.

 

[mollyc]

Mini rant, probably sort of on topic as the film shooting is really driving this. I bought a Z5ii a while back to replace my DX mirrorless kit as I wasn't particularly happy with a few things about it in low light. The sensor on the Z5ii is wonderful. Found after using it for a few weeks though that the thing is incredibly painful to use as the lenses are so damn heavy, even the primes. Borrowed a D750 off a colleague for a couple of days and shoved the 35mm f/2 AF-D off my F80 on it. Wow so much nicer to use. Better user interface. After going back, I realised that the mirrorless / EVF interface is horrible and I don't like it. The D750 and F80 feel much closer to reality. No disconnection. That real viewfinder is important. Plus they are like driving gas cars. The mirrorless is an EV - really slick but damn frustrating and the thing is in your face every two seconds and you have to work out what it's complaining about. So I have managed to snag a very low shutter count D750 body on a private sale and will shift the mirrorless kit. I got the mirrorless stuff on sale and bagged student discount so I can sell it for slightly more than what I paid for it on eBay after Nikon winter deals end. That'll cover the D750, an 85mm prime and a week in Slovenia with some rolls of HP5!

I shoot digital and film together. The reality is that I shoot way more digital because I do some projects that require immediacy. But I don't mind shooting them together at all and don't think I could ever give up one for the other. It's totally acceptable to be a hybrid shooter if you want.

 

[cjsuk]

I shoot digital and film together. The reality is that I shoot way more digital because I do some projects that require immediacy. But I don't mind shooting them together at all and don't think I could ever give up one for the other. It's totally acceptable to be a hybrid shooter if you want.

Yeah that's where I am now. Totally agree there. I am off to Berlin in March solo on a museum and usual "tourist scum" (sorry Berliners) trip so will lug one of each with me.

I think the mirrorless sort of went too far in the wrong direction though, at least for me. I need a camera I can feel and command, not one I have to negotiate with or decides to arbitrarily change what it wants me to see.

Anyway have some choices to make now after today's acquisition. The F-mount lenses are interchangeable between the D750 and the F80 and are ridiculously cheap compared to the Z lenses. The Z lenses are not interchangeable. And the FTZ adapter doesn't have a screw drive for those old lenses.

I need a macro lens and paying for a Z macro or an F macro is an obvious choice now. And it's not the Z.

 

[mollyc]

Yeah that's where I am now. Totally agree there. I am off to Berlin in March solo on a museum and usual "tourist scum" (sorry Berliners) trip so will lug one of each with me.

I think the mirrorless sort of went too far in the wrong direction though, at least for me. I need a camera I can feel and command, not one I have to negotiate with or decides to arbitrarily change what it wants me to see.

Anyway have some choices to make now after today's acquisition. The F-mount lenses are interchangeable between the D750 and the F80 and are ridiculously cheap compared to the Z lenses. The Z lenses are not interchangeable. And the FTZ adapter doesn't have a screw drive for those old lenses.

I need a macro lens and paying for a Z macro or an F macro is an obvious choice now. And it's not the Z.

View attachment 2588735

My main cameras are currently a Z6ii and a Fuji GFX 50ii. I use them in manual mode all of the time with single point focus or manual focus (MF exclusively on the GFX--I have the kit lens for the GFX but haven't used it since getting a Voigtlander lens for it). They never do stuff I don't want them too. I even turn off auto-ISO because I want to be in charge. Only if I am shooting my son's sports do I sometimes attempt a focus tracking mode on the Z camera and half the time I still keep it in single point. You absolutely don't have to let the camera arbitrarily change stuff.

Focus peaking is a nice feature on the mirrorless bodies and I never have trouble nailing focus on either body, although I don't use manual lenses for moving subjects.

For a macro lens, I use the F mount 105mm f/2.8G, which I got when I switched to Nikon (D700) in the early 2010s. It would work on all of your bodies with autofocus.

 

[cjsuk]

My main cameras are currently a Z6ii and a Fuji GFX 50ii. I use them in manual mode all of the time with single point focus or manual focus (MF exclusively on the GFX--I have the kit lens for the GFX but haven't used it since getting a Voigtlander lens for it). They never do stuff I don't want them too. I even turn off auto-ISO because I want to be in charge. Only if I am shooting my son's sports do I sometimes attempt a focus tracking mode on the Z camera and half the time I still keep it in single point. You absolutely don't have to let the camera arbitrarily change stuff.

Very cool. I did look at Fuji as well if I'm honest. The Z6ii (I inherited one last year but have sold it) is roughly the same as the Z5ii but the Z5ii is another generation newer. The problems I have are the fact the interface rotates on the Z5ii depending on orientation and the controls do different things in each orientation. Not very intuitive. That and the sheer amount of distractions on it. I've spent hours in the menus trying to make it not piss me off. I am not overly concerned about many of the things it wants to tell me

Focus peaking is a nice feature on the mirrorless bodies and I never have trouble nailing focus on either body, although I don't use manual lenses for moving subjects.

Ah yes definitely agree with that. The subject tracking on the Z5ii is rather amazing too. But I rarely need it these days.

For a macro lens, I use the F mount 105mm f/2.8G, which I got when I switched to Nikon (D700) in the early 2010s. It would work on all of your bodies with autofocus.

I'm going to grab a Nikon ES-2 film scanning head. That works with the 60mm macro max so will probably grab the older 60mm f/2.8 D job as they are cheap here. Can also abuse it as a portrait lens then 🤣.

Big thing here is in total I paid less for the F80, the 35mm, the 50mm, the D750 and the enlarger than I did for just the Z 24-120mm f/4 S on Nikon winter sale day, with a student discount. That sort of punched me in the face a bit. I'd rather spend it on film and cheap prime lenses 🤣

 

[mollyc]

The problems I have are the fact the interface rotates on the Z5ii depending on orientation and the controls do different things in each orientation.

Can you explain this a little more? I've used a D700, D800, Z6, Z6ii and have never had the orientation make a difference for any controls. But maybe it's a feature on newer models I'm unaware of.

The only rotation I can think of is if you shoot vertically and then have the photo fill the screen on the LCD back for review.

 

[cjsuk]

Can you explain this a little more? I've used a D700, D800, Z6, Z6ii and have never had the orientation make a difference for any controls. But maybe it's a feature on newer models I'm unaware of.

The only rotation I can think of is if you shoot vertically and then have the photo fill the screen on the LCD back for review.

Think it came in with EXPEED 7 cameras. Bloody annoying.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think the mirrorless sort of went too far in the wrong direction though, at least for me. I need a camera I can feel and command, not one I have to negotiate with or decides to arbitrarily change what it wants me to see.

Many of the mirrorless cameras feel insubstantial and the controls lifeless in the tactile sense - especially compared with older film cameras. It's a symptom of a broader trend in consumer goods - an increasing focus on feature content as a way to add value, to the detriment of other potential areas of value (durability, ergonomics, lower cost, build quality, etc.).

Why else would we have refrigerators that now play commercials and display the weather? (nervously waiting for the first cameras that require an account / service to use and have built-in features behind a paywall).

You absolutely don't have to let the camera arbitrarily change stuff.

Then first thing I did with the Canon RP was put it in fully manual mode. It actually takes some work to turn ALL the automatic features off. If I shot digital more, I would be using the camera this way much of the time. It's amusing to be able to crank the ISO orders of magnitude beyond what any film can handle and still get good photos.

Focus peaking is a nice feature on the mirrorless bodies and I never have trouble nailing focus on either body, although I don't use manual lenses for moving subjects.

A very helpful feature for negative scanning, I have found. But yeah, for shooting movement I admit I need autofocus...I've gotten a few good 'dynamic' shots with the manual cameras but that involves a little luck at my skill level.

 

[mollyc]

Think it came in with EXPEED 7 cameras. Bloody annoying.

You can turn it off.

Auto rotate info display

onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com

 

[cjsuk]

You can turn it off.

Auto rotate info display

onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com

You know I spent a good 30 minutes looking for that in the menu and couldn't find it.

Thank you! 🤣

 

[cjsuk]

Ok so am on holiday now and the partying has stopped and the hangover has worn off so I finished off setting up the dark(bed)room.

I didn't take any photos of the actual process or chemical mixing as, well, I was too in there to think about that sort of thing. Anyway after a couple of test strips printed, the first successful print...

I've been writing notes so as you can tell here I ballsed the alignment up. Easel added to the shopping list. Another 30 minutes later and we have three 5x7 prints hanging up...

Well this is fun!

Technical faff: Paper was Ilford multigrade RC pearl 5x7". Ilford Multigrade developer. Ilfostop. Ilford Rapid fixer. Durst 305 enlarger used to enlarge.

 

[ELand-SX70]

Yeah I am purposely avoiding colour here. I used to do C41 at home back in the 80s with my father and it was painful to say the least.

Similar situation with darkroom space. I have a shower/toilet room with a sink it's going to have to fit in somewhere. I'll work it out. I like in the middle of London so space costs a lot of money!

As for the prints, a good question. I intend to actually do some very mindful prints, more "art" than making loads of them. They might get framed. I don't know. I have a few projects in mind though including travel collage as I do a lot of travelling and abstract architecture etc. Time will tell. I have the attention span of a gnat so I'll probably have sold it all by end of 2026 after doing about 5 prints though 🤣

While C41 seems trickier that B&W, it's more simpler because it's a standardized process and is impervious to agitation defects. The only problem is keeping the relatively high temperature for the entire duration of the color development (first bath) but, if you're not going to print, modern developers have a handy table for adapting the development times to the desired temperature. That said, what I just said is valid only if you choose to not print from the negatives as prolonging the development time messes up something in the negative and you can't correct it with normal filters.
Sorry, I can't remember exactly what the problem is.

Remember to have fun!