Can't get used to the shallow keyboard, what should I do?

[Uplift]

These two sentences really need to be next to each other more.

Not everyone is exactly identical. Not everyone gets carpal tunnel, but some people do. The people who don't can just go on doing whatever, the people who do have to change how they type or suffer permanent nerve damage.

In general, if someone is experiencing pain from using a computer, it is incredibly bad advice to just say "oh, you'll get used to it" or anything like that. It indicates that something is wrong. Maybe they need to change how they type. Maybe that keyboard or mouse just won't work for them. But if they ignore it and keep using it without changing something, they can be permanently injured.

There's definitely keyboards which are more likely to work badly for people, or more likely to work well for them. The super-thin keyboards on recent Macs have gotten a lot of positive and negative feedback, because they're very far outside the usual design envelope for keyboards. That means some people really like them, and others really hate them.

And advising them to just "adapt" is pretty much reckless. Please leave the advice on ergonomics to people who have more experience with it.

I'm using mine 9-10 hours each day as a coder, absolutely loving it, typing is much faster and no finger aching.

I don't get some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a pro machine. Do people expect pros to lose productivity while they "get used to" using a keyboard? ("Sorry, I can't edit that video today - I'm practicing on my new keyboard.") Especially when the only reason for the keyboard was to make the whole thing a little thinner.

Unless Apple does a 180 degree with the next MB Pro update (and the promised desktop updates), I'm afraid many will regard this as the time Apple jumped the shark.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Pro means Apple's top of the line notebook, i.e. better than the MacBook. It is a brand name, just like Air.

Pro does not mean for professional use. At least not in recent years.

It is a relatively powerful MASS MARKET notebook. Nothing more.

It's not some coined super computer for industry professionals.

Whether people choose to use it for their professional work or not is completely irrelevant and a personal choice.

The fact some 'professionals' think this is a laptop designed solely for their use is laughable. It's mass market, Apple wants EVERYONE [Who is stupid enough to pay their premium] to use it.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Pro means Apple's top of the line notebook, i.e. better than the MacBook. It is a brand name, just like Air.

Pro does not mean for professional use. At least not in recent years.

It is a relatively powerful MASS MARKET notebook. Nothing more.

It's not some coined super computer for industry professionals.

Whether people choose to use it for their professional work or not is completely irrelevant and a personal choice.

The fact some 'professionals' think this is a laptop designed solely for their use is laughable. It's mass market, Apple wants EVERYONE [Who is stupid enough to pay their premium] to use it.

Apple still has a couple of products that are aimed at the "pro" market (see below from Apple's website), and the MB Pro is the top of the line laptop, so is presumably for them. But agreed - in reality it's become more of a brand name.

What is Logic Pro X
Logic Pro X puts a complete recording and MIDI production studio on your Mac, with everything a pro musician needs to write, record, edit, and mix like never before.

Final Cut Pro X
Incredible performance that takes full advantage of the new MacBook Pro. Post just became even more productive.

 

[therealseebs]

Yeah, they've completely abandoned that end of the market.

 

[jerryk]

On the contrary, I am a software engineer and am typing all day long on it, including emails, code C++/Javascript/Java, and lots of unix commands. It reminds me of my brown switches from my DAS keyboard just with much less travel. I know some people like to hammer on the keys for some unknown reason, but I don't have a problem with it.

I can see how your fingers ache. If you have bad hand/wrist posture, this keyboard is definitely very unforgiving because of the lack of travel.

One of the best features about MX switches in general is the travel and for the Browns the lack of clickiness. To me the new mac keyboard has the click of the blue and lacks travel.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Unless Apple does a 180 degree with the next MB Pro update (and the promised desktop updates), I'm afraid many will regard this as the time Apple jumped the shark.

Or maybe it was when they came out with a phone that you couldn't play music on while it was charging.

 

[kis]

Adapt to Windows then

the way macOS is apparently no longer developed, we all will sooner rather than later.

 

[therealseebs]

Or maybe it was when they came out with a phone that you couldn't play music on while it was charging.

I have Android and iOS phones. I mostly like iOS better, but that was a great example of why I keep using android for a lot of stuff.

 

[chabig]

Or maybe it was when they came out with a phone that you couldn't play music on while it was charging.

I don't have a problem charging and playing music at the same time.

 

[protoxx]

Final Cut Pro X
Incredible performance that takes full advantage of the new MacBook Pro. Post just became even more productive.

Maybe more ProSumer than Professional
Apple lost a lot of professional market share going from Final Cut Pro to Final Cut Pro X

http://www.studiodaily.com/2011/07/final-cut-controversy-has-editors-revisiting-avid-and-adobe/
http://www.slashfilm.com/final-cut-pro-apple-walk-professional-video-editing-market/
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...eds-to-acknowledge-the-pro-industry-and-fast/

 

[Fishrrman]

It was the keyboard that did it for me.

That is to say, I tried both the 2016 and the 2015 13" MacBook Pros "side-by-side" at the local BestBuy, typing text into Pages docs open on both at the same time.

I couldn't do well on the new keyboard. One typing mistake after another.
The -old- style keyboard (on the 2015) felt the same as did the keyboard on my old 2010 MBPro -- just fine.

That was the major deciding factor.

When I bought, I bought ... the 2015 instead. No regrets.

Aside:
The first keyboards I typed on were manual typewriters in typing class in high school in 1965. Later I got used to old radio-teletype machines in the Army in 1970.
I like a keyboard with "real travel" and a lot of tactile feedback. Typing this right now on an old Macally "iMediaKey" keyboard that looks like it came from a 1980's PC...

 

[jk76]

I don't get some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a pro machine. Do people expect pros to lose productivity while they "get used to" using a keyboard?

Most of discussions revolving around 2016 tbMBP sound like Hi-Fi "golden ears" rants. Which, for almost all settings, are utter bull.

Examples include:

- Your applications are not as memory-hungry as mine, so you can't tell 16 GB is sufficient for you. I know what real pro apps are, and that Apple has to deliver me the laptop that I want. I know better than hardware manufacturers and software houses put together.
- Your applications are not as CPU/GPU intensive as mine, I know better than you what's good for you.
- Your applications are not pro, because they don't keep the CPU constantly out of sleep for no apparent reason. (Golden ear laptop critics can feel how this property actually increases their productivity instead of just ruining their battery life.)
- Your preference for laptop dimensions are not in line with the Association of Golden Ears Owners. (Contrary to Hi-Fi Golden Ears Clubs, higher prices are preferred only occasionally.)
- Harmony of energy consumption of laptop components is more important than the fact changes might improve battery life for those mundane users not allowed in the club.
- Your fingers are not delicate enough to break on a touch of a keyboard lacking the good juju. Only golden finger reviews are relevant.

 

[motime]

I'm not sure why everyone is being so aggressive and hostile in this thread. While I have come to enjoy the new keyboards, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that a sizable portion of people have not. Implying that he is stupid simply because he has a different opinion is pretty unnecessary.

It is fanboy logic. Instantly jump on and bully anyone who has a criticism of the new shiny Apple product.
[doublepost=1482512691][/doublepost]

Adaptability is an important aspect of a smart creature. If you can adapt to a simple thing like a keyboard imagine what else you can adapt to.

Lol another classic response. Don't like the new keyboard? The problem is with the consumer. Don't like the UI lag? Switch to full screen lmao. If the laptops start blowing up tomorrow, you will be like join a bomb disposal squad before being critical of Apple.

 

[Apple 26.2]

That's a very infantile world view. Do you also adapt to a dictatorship, war, racism etc.? If something negative is important enough to you, you should, by all means, try to change it and not simply accept it. There's enough stuff you need to accept due to the fact that you can't change it - but a computer keyboard certainly isn't among them. There are plenty of choices here: buy a previous-gen MBP, buy a Windows machine, use an external keyboard.

That escalated quickly! We all have options... and choices, yes? Do what makes you happy, allow others the same!

 

[Silver2k]

Got mine a few days ago and I am having trouble adapting to the new keyboard also. I feel the enter/return key is a bit mushy and not as responsive as the rest of the keyboard

 

[cityboy-100]

I am having trouble getting used to the new keyboard also. I've had the thing since late November.

I spend about 10 hours a day at the computer, 8 or so at work on a 2015 macbook pro keyboard and 2 or so at home on a keyboard with cherry MX clear key switches.

My take-away is that even though we may be able to achieve similar WPM and error rates, 0.55mm isn't enough travel to provide a useful amount of information to the hands, and when we achieve these higher rates, it may be by listening or watching the cursor. I focus more on the cursor now than I used to.

Personally I hate this as a trade-off just to fit in a smaller laptop. Our hands are beautiful, useful tools and this keyboard scoffs at them and ignores what they offer.

 

[GalaDaliGirl]

The keys are simply terrible.

 

[xraydoc]

Got mine a few days ago and I am having trouble adapting to the new keyboard also. I feel the enter/return key is a bit mushy and not as responsive as the rest of the keyboard

Give it some time. Use it a lot... and slow down at first - get used to the feel first, then speed back up.

Personally, I love the thing. I can now type much faster than I could on my old MBA and MBP.

I actually hope they revise the Magic Keyboard to feel the same. That's how much I like the new keyboard.

 

[Salaryman Ryan]

I guess it falls down to personal preferences. I love mechanical clicky keyboards with lots of throw and thought I would hate these new keyboards. I actually liked it a lot but it does require a change of typing technique. Once I started to tap the keys instead of pressing down hard like what I do with my mech keyboards it made my typing much more comfortable.

However we are all wired differently and I can't blame anyone who does not like it because these thing does require a measure of commitment to really get used to it with no guarantee that you will like it.

 

[macintoshmac]

I am having trouble getting used to the new keyboard also. I've had the thing since late November.

I spend about 10 hours a day at the computer, 8 or so at work on a 2015 macbook pro keyboard and 2 or so at home on a keyboard with cherry MX clear key switches.

My take-away is that even though we may be able to achieve similar WPM and error rates, 0.55mm isn't enough travel to provide a useful amount of information to the hands, and when we achieve these higher rates, it may be by listening or watching the cursor. I focus more on the cursor now than I used to.

Personally I hate this as a trade-off just to fit in a smaller laptop. Our hands are beautiful, useful tools and this keyboard scoffs at them and ignores what they offer.

You had me at Cherry MX clear. No way you will like the MB keyboard. You can try to understand this as a tradeoff for portability while you are on the move.

 

[tubeexperience]

Do you own one of the new MBPs?

You just committed logical fallacy "ad hominem".

Try again.

 

[laudern]

Adaptability is an important aspect of a smart creature. If you can adapt to a simple thing like a keyboard imagine what else you can adapt to.

So you are the guy who thinks this is a good idea.

 

[bizack]

When I first used the butterfly keyboard on a MacBook, it took some adjusting. But now I absolutely love the keyboard on the new MBP. I tried using the old spongy keyboard on a 2015 model, and it just feels strange now. If you absolutely hate it, I'd consider getting a different machine (although all Macs will likely have this keyboard moving forward). I don't think 'adapting' to something that you don't like is in any way a good idea.

 

[skids929]

You just committed logical fallacy "ad hominem".

Try again.

Exactly..Thats what I thought. So why bother commenting on something you don't own. Rhetorical question...

 

[tubeexperience]

Exactly..Thats what I thought. So why bother commenting on something you don't own. Rhetorical question...

Maybe you should address the argument rather than question the legitimacy of the person.

That argument could have literally been made about anything.

___

I don't like the interior in the Dodge Avenger.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like the lamp because it's not very bright

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like this bed. It's not firm enough.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like this TV. The color contrast is poor.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.

 

[skids929]

Maybe you should address the argument rather than question the legitimacy of the person.

That argument could have literally been made about anything.

___

I don't like the interior in the Dodge Avenger.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like the lamp because it's not very bright

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like this bed. It's not firm enough.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.
___

I don't like this TV. The color contrast is poor.

So why bother commenting on something you don't own.

Rationalize much? Would you offer an opinion on an EL 34 without having listening to it in a given implementation? I am not questioning your legitimacy as a person, trust me I could care less. Questioning the legitimacy of your opinion on something you have no experience with, yes. Members on a forum dedicated to Apple products want to hear from folks who have real life experience with the products, from real users. Not someone who popped into a Apple Store and typed for 10 minutes on it and made a sweeping decision that the keyboard was awful, came up with one of the worst explanations as to why Apple changed it and then took the spare time to post on an Apple forum, in a thread dedicated to a computer you don't own.

These aren't mattresses, these a complex, very expensive items that require someone to sit and use them before them come to a snap judgement, then take time to post it on this forum so some newbie can take it as fact. The argument becomes what value you are adding in a place where people rely on that. Really you need to focus on the legitimacy of the argument, and what you bring as far as opinion and why. You've been questioned and the legitimacy is clear, which is it's not legit.