Carriers Object to Apple's Plans for Built-In iPhone SIM Even as GSMA Moves Forward

[spazzcat]

Did you know you can buy a mini-SIM converter online?
It's just a special SIM cutter.
There's also a mini-SIM adapter to be able to use it on a regular SIM slot.

So SIM size is no longer an issue.

So you carry around two phones and a little peice of plastic just incase your battery dies. I like my life to be a little simpler then that....

 

[Amazing Iceman]

True, but sadly my better half watches news every other day so there goes $100/mo and hours of TV commercials into my living room.

Heheh! Let her know she could watch only the news she wants online at your local TV Station website.

Good reason to invest on an AppleTV or similar device, on even one of those new TVs with built-in internet browser.

Imagine: 1-year of TV is $1200.00 more than enough to buy really good equipment.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

So you carry around two phones and a little peice of plastic just incase your battery dies. I like my life to be a little simpler then that....

Nope, I only carry one phone, and the charging cable. My phone is always charging while I'm driving. So far I haven't run out of battery, and I use my phone all day long.

 

[spazzcat]

Nope, I only carry one phone, and the charging cable. My phone is always charging while I'm driving. So far I haven't run out of battery, and I use my phone all day long.

That was the point I was trying to get across. But there are people here making sound like they move their sim several times a day. Because their phone broke or their batterty died...

 

[KnightWRX]

I can use an app to change my service anytime anywhere. I don't have to find a place to buy a sim, I don't have to worry about where did that sim go for France, now I am in Spain, where is my Spain SIM...

And how will the carrier bill you if you don't call them ? It's not going to work by magic, you won't simply be able to "switch" in an app.

That was the point I was trying to get across. But there are people here making sound like they move their sim several times a day. Because their phone broke or their batterty died...

Or you know, your friend might have his own phone where you can plop your SIM for 2 minutes while you enable call forwarding...

And you didn't address the spare phone in case of breakage, I don't need to contact my carrier, I get a working phone as soon as I can get to my spare.

Again, what are the benefits of the no-SIM method exactly ? Because I can't see them...

 

[deadkennedy]

Heheh! Let her know she could watch only the news she wants online at your local TV Station website.

Good reason to invest on an AppleTV or similar device, on even one of those new TVs with built-in internet browser.

Imagine: 1-year of TV is $1200.00 more than enough to buy really good equipment.

Well it's a little bit more convenient to drop on the couch and switch channels a bit than going to browser on TV and clicking around with remote control trying to find news.

If Apple TV or Google TV or whatever other thing can provide BBC World news on demand, I'd pay for it immediately even if I have to pay additional subscription of 10 dollars per month.

 

[Pared]

This is fantastic.

Giving the consumer the flexibility to choose whomever they'd like... wow, what a concept!

 

[Pared]

Micro sim adapters are available.

This is pointless of us in the US. Just saying... Apple is looking at a global approach to unify their device and how it communicates around the world.

 

[dgree03]

And how will the carrier bill you if you don't call them ? It's not going to work by magic, you won't simply be able to "switch" in an app.

I would imagine the same way the iPad 3g does? You sign up for service directly from the device and they do automatic billing?

 

[KnightWRX]

This is fantastic.

Giving the consumer the flexibility to choose whomever they'd like... wow, what a concept!

Something we already have today and with the added benefits of SIM swapping!

 

[sigjuice]

Dumb

Why can't the carriers be the dumb pipes I pay them to be?

 

[profets]

I'm with KnightWRX on this.

I already have freedom to switch and choose carriers as I please. I purchased an iPhone 4 from Apple directly and unlocked. I can choose which carrier to use it with.

I really don't understand how a "sim-less" iPhone (or any phone) gives a user more control. I already have full control over my phone and the ability to use it on different carriers. Not only that, but I like having my account from a carrier connected solely to a sim card. At any time I can move that sim card from phone to phone and the account/phone# just follows.

Closer to the operators' hearts, it could allow customers to switch more easily from one to another or insist on shorter-term contracts.

How in the world would a sim-less phone suddenly allow customers to switch more easily or insist on shorter-term contracts??

 

[Fraaaa]

Please NOT

I hate the idea. I want the freedom of choose my carrier for my own, everytime, everywhere.

Isn't that what Apple is trying to do?

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Well it's a little bit more convenient to drop on the couch and switch channels a bit than going to browser on TV and clicking around with remote control trying to find news.

If Apple TV or Google TV or whatever other thing can provide BBC World news on demand, I'd pay for it immediately even if I have to pay additional subscription of 10 dollars per month.

What's more convenient than an AppleTV remote, which only has 7 or 8 buttons that you can push in total darkness with ease?

BTW, there's a BBC News App for the iPad and it's free. I don't doubt it will eventually come for the new AppleTV.

Or, just get a MacMini to connect to your TV and an app called PLEX. It should do all you want, plus give you access to all your media either local or shared on your network. And it's all controlled by the tiny Apple Remote.

 

[profets]

I would imagine the same way the iPad 3g does? You sign up for service directly from the device and they do automatic billing?

That only works because Apple has worked with carriers to have their systems hooked into the carriers' systems to allow for automatic payments, visibility to data use, etc.

 

[JAT]

This concept is designed to give you exactly what you want; the ability to choose what carrier you want, when you want it, and change carriers if you're unhappy with your first (or second, or third) choice.

Ok, I'm not singling this post out, except that it really highlights what I want to say....

I don't get it. What are you people talking about?

The SIM function and the concept of network compatibility is what gives us this option. It doesn't matter if the card is removable or not. People have argued in this thread that you need a removable card to switch easily, other people are arguing that you need a non-removable card to switch easily. Seriously, does this even affect anyone but the people who make SIM cards? And then only the removable versions, the storage/ID tech is still necessary.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

That was the point I was trying to get across. But there are people here making sound like they move their sim several times a day. Because their phone broke or their batterty died...

Heheh! And the point behind Apple's idea is to allow us to change carriers without having to purchase yet another SIM card from the carriers, saving us anywhere between $10 to $30 each time, plus the time and effort to go get one or wait for it to arrive by mail.

 

[deadkennedy]

What's more convenient than an AppleTV remote, which only has 7 or 8 buttons that you can push in total darkness with ease?

BTW, there's a BBC News App for the iPad and it's free. I don't doubt it will eventually come for the new AppleTV.

Or, just get a MacMini to connect to your TV and an app called PLEX. It should do all you want, plus give you access to all your media either local or shared on your network. And it's all controlled by the tiny Apple Remote.

Well this does sound pretty cool. So with this setup I could watch BBC news with my remote?

 

[KnightWRX]

Ok, I'm not singling this post out, except that it really highlights what I want to say....

I don't get it. What are you people talking about?

The SIM function and the concept of network compatibility is what gives us this option. It doesn't matter if the card is removable or not. People have argued in this thread that you need a removable card to switch easily, other people are arguing that you need a non-removable card to switch easily. Seriously, does this even affect anyone but the people who make SIM cards? And then only the removable versions, the storage/ID tech is still necessary.

Exactly, Unlocked phones are not related to how the SIM work (removable or not).

And this affects the consumer. No more SIM swapping means all the scenarios highlighted before (switching phones, buying pay-as-go SIMs for roaming) are not possible anymore.

I just don't see the benefit of what Apple is trying to do with this, if they even are working on this.

Heheh! And the point behind Apple's idea is to allow us to change carriers without having to purchase yet another SIM card from the carriers, saving us anywhere between $10 to $30 each time, plus the time and effort to go get one or wait for it to arrive by mail.

Because carrier's won't simply charge activation fees and every carrier will accept OTA activations without having to give them a call.

 

[theBB]

I'm sorry, but I quite like the European model of being able to pop out your SIM card and place it in any unlocked phone you'd like.

What if your phone breaks down and you need a back-up phone? How do you transfer the information?

I agree for a regular phone, that is a good feature. I don't think smartphones (or even RAZRs from half a decade ago) save contact info on the SIM card, as we can now assign more than one number, emails, addresses etc. to each contact. Besides, smartphones have a lot more info than just contacts. You cannot really transfer information by just swapping SIM cards. You have to use the backup on your computer and restore.

Still, just keeping your phone number active on a old phone without having to call customer service while trying to get your phone fixed makes it worth it.

 

[Fraaaa]

And how will the carrier bill you if you don't call them ? It's not going to work by magic, you won't simply be able to "switch" in an app.


(...)

Well, we've been using internet payment methods for a decade now. And they seem quite integrated in everyday task.

I'm not sure what the disadvantages are to be honest. I'm concerned about hacks and stuff, otherwise for customers looks good.

But definetely this is a serious concern for operators.

Exactly, Unlocked phones are not related to how the SIM work (removable or not).

And this affects the consumer. No more SIM swapping means all the scenarios highlighted before (switching phones, buying pay-as-go SIMs for roaming) are not possible anymore.

I just don't see the benefit of what Apple is trying to do with this, if they even are working on this.



Because carrier's won't simply charge activation fees and every carrier will accept OTA activations without having to give them a call.

I actually thought that this was exactly what Apple is aiming for.

 

[JAT]

Exactly, Unlocked phones are not related to how the SIM work (removable or not).

And this affects the consumer. No more SIM swapping means all the scenarios highlighted before (switching phones, buying pay-as-go SIMs for roaming) are not possible anymore.

Ok, I'll give you that one, pay-as-you-go isn't too expensive, although there are hidden cost issues. But some people have been talking about swapping in different SIMs/phones when problems arise...that just means you are paying for a 2nd line or a 2nd smartphone to lay around and do nothing most of the time. I don't have that kind of cash, "just in case". I guess if you are a tiny business, the redundancy might be worth it, but that's not a real big issue. And fast repair is the answer, anyway.

 

[newagemac]

How ? How does it give you more control than a SIM based phone ? I gave plenty of examples where you have less control with the no-SIM method.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. If all phones had built in SIMs that were controlled by the customer, how exactly would the customer not have more control? You lose or break your phone, you just turn on your backup phone. You don't even have to remove a SIM card and install it anywhere or worry about different sized and kinds of SIM cards like the situation today. Just pull out your backup phone and connect to the carrier of your own choice without having to visit them or call them up.

This works great with a broken phone and even better with a lost phone since in that situation you no longer even HAVE the SIM card anymore so you can't even do a SIM swap if you wanted to.

 

[reallynotnick]

At first I was thinking this would be a bad move for consumers as far as choice went but now that I see the carriers don't like it I am all for it, lol.

 

[KnightWRX]

What you are saying doesn't make sense. If all phones had built in SIMs that were controlled by the customer, how exactly would the customer not have more control? You lose or break your phone, you just turn on your backup phone. You don't even have to remove a SIM card and install it anywhere or worry about different sized and kinds of SIM cards like the situation today.

Hum, you have to activate it. What makes you think carriers will let you simply activate a "2nd phone" or deactivate an existing one ? There's way too much involved that a SIM makes dead simple.

You guys are good at trying to make up some imaginary scenarios that involve carrier network features that don't yet exist. Meanwhile, some phones are even moving to dual SIM slots because vendors, carriers and users realise SIM swapping simply works easily and conveniently.

This is a fix for a non-issue really.

But some people have been talking about swapping in different SIMs/phones when problems arise...that just means you are paying for a 2nd line or a 2nd smartphone to lay around and do nothing most of the time. I don't have that kind of cash, "just in case".

I was the one who said that. Paying a 2nd line or 2nd phone ? No, see, I have had Cellphones for the last oh... 12 years. Each time I upgrade, I simply keep the old one around. If anything happens, I plop my trusty SIM in there and I don't lose any calls, all without having to pay anything extra to my carrier or even calling them or hoping they have some kind of OTA activation that works for my particular scenario.

I've had to do this about 3-4 times in the last 12 years. It was painless and just plain worked each time. I've also had to plop my SIM in my friend's phone a few times to turn on call forwarding after forgetting to charge my phone. That also just worked.