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If your house is robbed, it's not your fault, regardless of whether you locked the door, welded it shut, or left it wide open. The blame belongs *solely* with the person who robbed you.

Actually it could very well be your fault. Did you do everything you could not to be a victim? These ladies didn't. The bad guys are certainly guilty of wrong doings but these ladies are partly to blame to what happened because of their lack of understanding and careless behaviors.

What they did was take a huge risk by storing highly sought after sensitive pics and vids on a third party site and figured the world wouldn't bother them and that iCloud would protect them. They clearly weren't aware of the technology they were using nor did they read the T&C's and willingly accept those risks with an informed mind.

So go ahead and put your flat screen TV in your 3 season room, leave your iPad in the backseat of your car and your wife's purse on the front seat of hers and then cry aloud when you're robbed because you were not at all to blame :rolleyes:]

I seriously hope you know better than to do those things.
 
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Too many people are focused on only one violation here. And that is the THEFT of someone's personal property. And then laying some/all the blame on the victim for not protecting it well enough.

^^ the above is happening because the catalyst that set all this drama in motion is so blatantly clear. Don't want nude pics and vids stolen via a cyber crime, then don't store them in cyberspace. Pretty simple concept. Is anyone really honestly shocked that this happened?

The reason there's blame to go round is these adults are not living under a rock and know and see such hacks happening daily. They know darn well they are highly visible targets and that nude pics/vids and scandal of any kind is a super high value to thieves yet they chose to gamble or play dumb and they lost. Sorry, but it's true.

Yes, they are victims, but they also had a role to play that involved being quite a bit more responsible than they were. They don't get a free pass for lacking responsibility or common sense.

There's 2nd component to this - and that's the publication of the stolen images. I can't find a single reason why anyone would say that someone deserved that, should have known better, shouldn't have taken the photos, or anything other than the fact that they are clearly a victim.

You're right, perhaps they don't deserve to have their images shared across the net, but they put that in motion by making them available to begin with. I'm sorry but I bank online and know the risks that come with it. We all take risks. Sometimes they bite us, but the value I get from banking online makes it worth it to me.

Perhaps they need to begin asking themselves what value was there to putting nude and embarrassing personal images and videos in a position to be stolen. What value was there to to produce said images in the first place? Just because they can doesn't mean they should. Just because it's their right doesn't mean others are going to not violate that right. These people are role models to many kids and they need to begin acting like it.

Like you said, none of us can really say that to them. However, they do need to be looking at all those points and making responsible decisions as their actions go far beyond just impacting them. How do loved ones feel? How does this make them look to all the kids that look up to them? What is this saying about the acting community as a whole? In the end, I hope they are happy with what happened to the images and videos they willingly chose to participate in and let sit in the hands of someone other than themselves.
 
Sounds like Apple is in damage control mode to prevent bad press for their appointment next week. :)

So far, this recent statement proves nothing.
 
Actually it could very well be your fault. Did you do everything you could not to be a victim? These ladies didn't. The bad guys are certainly guilty of wrong doings but these ladies are partly to blame to what happened because of their lack of understanding and careless behaviors.

What they did was take a huge risk by storing highly sought after sensitive pics and vids on a third party site and figured the world wouldn't bother them and that iCloud would protect them. They clearly weren't aware of the technology they were using nor did they read the T&C's and willingly accept those risks with an informed mind.

So go ahead and put your flat screen TV in your 3 season room, leave your iPad in the backseat of your car and your wife's purse on the front seat of hers and then cry aloud when you're robbed because you were not at all to blame :rolleyes:

So right. People like SamCraig, tbrinkma and Analogkid are the same kind of people you see on Judge Judy crying because they loaned people big money without a promissory note or handed over their money to someone to "invest" for them or bought a car/house without inspecting it first because they live their lives thinking everyone is always going to do the right thing and they don't have to protect themselves. Might as well tattoo "kick me and take my money" on their heads. Sorry but it's hard to feel bad for people who just passively (and knowingly) allow bad things to happen to them because they don't want to go out of their way to do simple things to protect themselves. And even worse, they'll continue to not protect themselves after they have been victimized because they refuse to take responsibility for their own safety. Kind of like people who throw up their hands and say "God's will" instead of taking action to fix something themselves.
 
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Actually it could very well be your fault. Did you do everything you could not to be a victim? These ladies didn't. The bad guys are certainly guilty of wrong doings but these ladies are partly to blame to what happened because of their lack of understanding and careless behaviors.

What they did was take a huge risk by storing highly sought after sensitive pics and vids on a third party site and figured the world wouldn't bother them and that iCloud would protect them. They clearly weren't aware of the technology they were using nor did they read the T&C's and willingly accept those risks with an informed mind.

So go ahead and put your flat screen TV in your 3 season room, leave your iPad in the backseat of your car and your wife's purse on the front seat of hers and then cry aloud when you're robbed because you were not at all to blame :rolleyes:]

I seriously hope you know better than to do those things.
You sound like the guy who would point partial blame on a rape victim because they didn't carry any weapons or happen to be attractive.

iCloud security failed.
Stop pointing to the victim for accountability.

*No need to dangle a carrot to create a diversion.
 
Celebrity iCloud Accounts Compromised by Weak Passwords, Not iCloud Breach

You sound like the guy who would point partial blame on a rape victim because they didn't carry any weapons or happen to be attractive.

iCloud security failed.
Stop pointing to the victim for accountability.

*No need to dangle a carrot to create a diversion.


ICloud was working as intended. If they had had two factor might have been fine.
Find My Phone had a vulnerability, but was not the vector.

Victims didn't fully lock their house. Regular knob lock, no deadbolt.

Still none should have been attacking that, perpetrators fully at fault.
 
Might as well tattoo "kick me and take my money" on their heads. Sorry but it's hard to feel bad for people who just passively (and knowingly) allow bad things to happen to them because they don't want to go out of their way to do simple things to protect themselves.

I see your point and I actually see the point those other posters are trying to make. I think to your last point, most of the others are leading with emotion and can't believe yours or my comments aren't 100% sympathetic.

I actually do feel bad for those hurt by this but only because IMO they were either too ignorant or just plain careless and dumb in some cases to think things through. How many tens of thousands of minors do the same thing every day? Here the hard part that gets me is these are highly paid talented adults that are making such horrible selfish decisions and then rightfully point to the bad guys but then refuse to admit their role.

How dare they put their friends and family in such awkward positions. Can you imagine how their father and mother feel? Blows my mind that people can be so dumb.
 
You sound like the guy who would point partial blame on a rape victim because they didn't carry any weapons or happen to be attractive.

iCloud security failed.
Stop pointing to the victim for accountability.

*No need to dangle a carrot to create a diversion.

There aren't any shades of grey in your world, are there?

I'm a woman and I'm not afraid to say that women shouldn't get drunk or high to the point of incoherence in a wild party full of men. Not that she deserves to be raped but she contributed just a bit to the situation she found herself in. The man who takes advantage of the situation should be punished, no doubt. But the woman should have taken better care of herself to avoid the situation in the first place. And it does her ZERO good to say she can continue to live recklessly and simply hope she never ends up around that type of man again. I live my life controlling as many things as I can to avoid injury, only taking risks I've determined are worth it. I don't live my life completely under the control of the assumed good graces of everyone around me. Anyone who does that is in for a world of hurt. Reality. Deal with it.
 
You sound like the guy who would point partial blame on a rape victim because they didn't carry any weapons or happen to be attractive.

I wouldn't quite compare the victim of a rape. These ladies had a 100% ability to prevent these images from being taken and distributed but played the odds anyway. I Hope whatever thrill they gained by participating in the creation of those images and storing them outside their own control was worth the price they are paying. At the very least, I hope they learned their lesson.

iCloud security failed.
Stop pointing to the victim for accountability.

The iCloud Security is was it is and they signed off on using it by reading through the T&C's and opting into using the service. They accepted those risks with their images, video and data. No one forced them to put those images out there.

Their common sense failed more so and I'm not going to stop pointing at their own responsibility or lack there of that led to these images being distributed. I've already acknowledged them as victims, but they played a part in the matter and have to accept that before they can move on and honestly say they've learned anything.

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I'm a woman and I'm not afraid to say that women shouldn't get drunk or high to the point of incoherence in a wild party full of men. Not that she deserves to be raped but she contributed just a bit to the situation she found herself in. The man who takes advantage of the situation should be punished, no doubt. But the woman should have taken better care of herself to avoid the situation in the first place. And it does her ZERO good to say she can continue to live recklessly and simply hope she never ends up around that type of man again. I live my life controlling as many things as I can to avoid injury, only taking risks I've determined are worth it. I don't live my life completely under the control of the assumed good graces of everyone around me. Anyone who does that is in for a world of hurt. Reality. Deal with it.

Well said. Reckless is a good word to describe the behavior of these ladies. What they did lacked common sense and what happened was 100% in their control to avoid from having happened in the first place. They need to wake up and start being a bit more responsible for their own actions. Less selfish if you ask me....or in my case that of my 8yr old daughter who saw the story on the news and "can't believe anyone, especially a grown up, would put nude images of them self at such risk to be exposed." An 8yr old said that.
 
I generally agree with both camps of this debate, and I think both have a percentage of blame, but I think the primary party at fault here is Apple.

Apple has pushed iCloud aggressively as the way to sync your iDevices. It pushed it so aggressively that it tried to kill usb sync on iTunes and force users to use iCloud exclusively. This means Apple expects us to trust iCloud with all our personal data.

Now please someone explain to me how is the mainstream casual user supposed to know about 2-step verification system if Apple 1. Does not make this the default option, 2. Does not advertise this feature?

It's Apple's fault for leaving so many security holes in iCloud, a system that expected to be used mainstream, a system that is supposed to keep the most private personal data secure.
 
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if it was a breach (brute force), would apple actually admit it?

wouldn't a third party have to prove it was a breach for apple to admit it?

the same would hold true for any company, not just apple

why would any company take the heat if they didn't have to?

Because no one would trust them ever again with sensitive data if they were caught in a lie. It's been established over time that it's better to come clean and manage security breaches, rather than deny it.

I work for a company heavily involved in IT security; and while I can't provide details, I can say this is very well understood in the industry.

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I generally agree with both camps of this debate, and I think both have a percentage of blame, but I think the primary party at fault here is Apple.

Apple has pushed iCloud aggressively as the way to sync your iDevices. It pushed it so aggressively that it tried to kill usb sync on iTunes and force users to use iCloud exclusively. This means Apple expects us to trust iCloud with all our personal data.

Now please someone explain to me how is the mainstream casual user supposed to know about 2-step verification system if Apple 1. Does not make this the default option, 2. Does not offer or advertise this feature?

It's Apple's fault for leaving so many security holes in iCloud, a system that expected to be used mainstream, a system that is supposed to keep the most private personal data secure.

Two-step verification would have prevented this, but even judicious choice of passwords would probably have worked. I have unique passwords for each of my accounts which I manage to remember, without relying on anybody's name or an easily-guessable word-- this in spite of being over 60 and having reduced short-term memory :(. It's not that hard if you spend a few minutes of your life thinking about it.
 
Because no one would trust them ever again with sensitive data if they were caught in a lie. It's been established over time that it's better to come clean and manage security breaches, rather than deny it.

I work for a company heavily involved in IT security; and while I can't provide details, I can say this is very well understood in the industry.

Well I don't think anyone will be able to prove that it was indeed a breach aside from Apple themselves. I mean, the release and patching of ibrute, along with two factor's nonfunction for icloud backups & photostream are a bit of a smoking gun for me. Whether or not the photos were obtained through those methods exactly will likely never be truly known by outsiders.

Then there is the semantics angle that Apple may not consider ibrute tactics as a breach.

I feel like marketing wrote this response and its just damage control.

By patching ibrute arent they acknowledging a breach was possible? perhaps they only ibrute'd nonceleb icloud accounts..

this whole scenario is still very hazy

Edit: two step in its current implementation actually wouldnt stop this because only username and pass are needed for icloud restores on devices. ie.. apple hasnt fully implemented 2 factor for icloud, only certain circumstances.
 
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I generally agree with both camps of this debate, and I think both have a percentage of blame, but I think the primary party at fault here is Apple.

Apple has pushed iCloud aggressively as the way to sync your iDevices. It pushed it so aggressively that it tried to kill usb sync on iTunes and force users to use iCloud exclusively. This means Apple expects us to trust iCloud with all our personal data.

Now please someone explain to me how is the mainstream casual user supposed to know about 2-step verification system if Apple 1. Does not make this the default option, 2. Does not advertise this feature?

It's Apple's fault for leaving so many security holes in iCloud, a system that expected to be used mainstream, a system that is supposed to keep the most private personal data secure.

For one, why would Apple advertising two-factor security guarantee people would a)see the ad and b) use the feature? I suppose they could take away the freedom to choose a person's security level and deal with people complaining even more about Apple creating a restricted system people can't personalize. Also, iCloud has never been advertised as an iron fortress of security. It's advertised as a convenient way to backup your stuff and share it across your devices. If you want something with an iron fortress guarantee, you need to go somewhere else. Anyone with half a brain should know you don't put super sensitive material on something simple like iCloud.
 
You sound like the guy who would point partial blame on a rape victim because they didn't carry any weapons or happen to be attractive.

Hyperbole much?

First of all, there is no partial blame, i.e. the blame you put on the victim has absolutely nothing to do with the perpetrators guilt. The perpetrator is guilty of the same degree whether the rape victim was drunk or wearing a slutty dress or what have you.

Second, carrying weapons is not something expected of you unless you live in a really bad neighbourhood. That's a bit extreme if you mean guns.

Being attractive has nothing to do with the blame. That's your body. That would be like saying attractive girls shouldn't go out.

But if a girl walked on a really bad neighbourhood at night alone without any kind of protection, knowing that there's rape going on there, yes she was being stupid.

Hell, I wouldn't walk in such a neighbourhood at night alone myself because of robberies and I'm a male. [/QUOTE]


iCloud security failed.
Stop pointing to the victim for accountability.

Hmm first of all, do we know absolutely for sure that this happened? No.

For all we know the hacks could have happened through social engineering alone.

Second, even if the iCloud security failed, isn't that blaming the victim as well? The second victim of this hack was Apple itself. Their system was hacked isn't it? And they are gonna get a lot of bad press because of it if they were found to be faulty, or maybe regardless of that.

So if we are not allowed to blame the celebrities and only the hackers, why are we allowed to blame Apple?

We all know why. If Apple is hacked because of a "mistake" they made, then they were indeed irresponsible, exactly like the celebrities. They were not part of the hacking, but they could have prevented it if they were smarter, again, exactly like the celebrities.

So you can either blame both Apple and celebrities or you cannot blame any of them.

I'm the type of person that'd blame both if they did something stupid, i.e. the victim.

/care about the actual hacker. I hope FBI gets him and he gets a nice jailtime but that's really the most irrelevant part of this whole thing.
 
So go ahead and put your flat screen TV in your 3 season room, leave your iPad in the backseat of your car and your wife's purse on the front seat of hers and then cry aloud when you're robbed because you were not at all to blame :rolleyes:]

Heh, whose fault is it when the theif is shot dead in the act by the owner in those scenarios?
 
It's Apple's fault for leaving so many security holes in iCloud, a system that expected to be used mainstream, a system that is supposed to keep the most private personal data secure.

What? Where did you get your last sentence from? iCloud is far from being advertised as a place to keep your most personal data. :eek:
 
Heh, whose fault is it when the theif is shot dead in the act by the owner in those scenarios?

Define fault here. Fault that a bad guy was killed, fault that a guy had to spend $.47 to kill him, fault that someone lost sleep that night?

Which situation? Where was the bad guy? How was he shot? What state are you role playing in? Was the homeowner baiting him? Lots of questions go into this as it's not straight forward simple.
 
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What? Where did you get your last sentence from? iCloud is far from being advertised as a place to keep your most personal data. :eek:

well it does serve as the main way apple has pushed for backing up ones device

phones tend to have more personal items than any other device
 
well it does serve as the main way apple has pushed for backing up ones device. phones tend to have more personal items than any other device

Last I checked, my family has clearly has a choice where to back up their information. Also, if you're ever read through the full T&C's of iCloud you could clearly see that it's not a place intended to store your most personal data. Lots of cloud sites offer ways to push photos from your phone to them, but no thanks. I'm good with keeping my data in my hands.
 
well it does serve as the main way apple has pushed for backing up ones device

phones tend to have more personal items than any other device

Yeah, photos of vacations, friends and pets. Not nude photos of you with man-juice running down your back :rolleyes:
 
Last I checked, my family has clearly has a choice where to back up their information. Also, if you're ever read through the full T&C's of iCloud you could clearly see that it's not a place intended to store your most personal data. Lots of cloud sites offer ways to push photos from your phone to them, but no thanks. I'm good with keeping my data in my hands.

Yeah, photos of vacations, friends and pets. Not nude photos of you with man-juice running down your back :rolleyes:

well than perhaps it is good that this happened..

people will trust icloud (and by result Apple) less

I don't think that is really what apple wants to come of this..
 
Well, I think some balance is needed when talking about this issue. I think what the person you're replying to really meant is that the person making a weak password should accept some responsibility for this incident occurring because if you don't protect yourself, you're asking for it.

All those celebrities with easy to guess passwords don't deserve to have their stuff stolen, but they do share a bit of responsibility. I don't see how you could argue against that at all. It's important to realize what kind of world we live in and be prepared for all the bad stuff out there
I understand fully the difference, and I appreciate it myself. I'm perfectly willing to say to someone who uses "123abc" for their bank password, when their money is stolen, "Well, that's hardly a surprise--you should have expected that to happen." while also fully believing that the person who stole the money belongs in prison every bit as much as the guy who breaks into an unoccupied house to loot the place.

But I see a difference between noting that bad things happen when you use weak passwords and what seems to me to be the victim blaming happening in this incident, which is the attitude that they deserved it because of their lack of security. That attitude implicitly absolves the criminal of blame, and further it's particularly bad when the crime isn't a simple theft or getting your computer infected by a virus but something irrevocable and private like getting photographs of your naked body stolen and shared among random strangers.

To me it gets into the same territory as telling someone not to walk around alone at night in a bad neighborhood and saying "It's her fault that she got raped for walking home from that party alone." The former is unfortunately good advice, but it does not then make it the victim's fault when something that should never happen does.


I think in deeper terms this gets at a moral issue, initially started by the hacker subculture decades ago, that many tech-heads have developed that "if you can, it's okay". That is, that if a system is poorly protected, it's the sysop's fault for not locking the doors better when an enterprising hacker figures out how to get in, and whatever happens at that point is fair game. It treats electronic breakins as an abstract; there is this chunk of data that's locked up, and if a clever person knows how to bypass those locks, they get the benefit of mucking around with it--defacing a homepage, sharing secrets, using services for free, etc. It hand-waves away that there are real-world impacts of an electronic break-in--labor to fix things, loss of income, stolen money or identities, deep violations of privacy--and that the people doing so are, more often than not today, just another sort of criminal who prefers to work from a living room or basement instead of with a crowbar and lockpick.

In the physical world, we expect banks to have vaults and security cameras and silent alarms and armed guards because they hold very valuable things, but we still consider bank robberies terrible crimes and rarely if ever fault the bank when one is attempted or pulled off. Similarly, private citizens take basic precautions--lock their doors and windows, maybe leave a light on or put up a fence--but when someone picks a lock or breaks a window to rob the house, no one says "Well, it's their fault for not putting in steel bars and an alarm system." We just say "That's terrible, I hope they catch the guy." If someone gets robbed because they forgot to lock their front door, or left a window open, most people likely say the same thing.

It seems to me that the digital world should be treated similarly--reasonable levels of security are, of course, advisable and should be practiced. And places that have very important things--banks, large businesses with a lot of credit card and private data--should have very stringent security in place to protect that stuff. But crimes committed there are still crimes, and should be treated and viewed as such by society, instead of as somehow different.

Of course, online is also a place where people can and do regularly make violent threats, say horribly racist and misogynistic comments, and spew vitriol in a comment thread that one would never consider face to face because it would get you either arrested or punched in the face.
 
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