CES 2019: Sony's Upcoming 4K and 8K TVs to Support AirPlay 2 and HomeKit

[SamsonsToupee]

With this announcement I plan on getting XBR-75X950G. I currently run all my home audio/video through a Yamaha RX-A2080. My receiver supports airplay and can easily stream music to it but not video. I have a decent amount of movies through iTunes and would like better access to them on my home entertainment system. 4K, Dolby Atmos, Dolby vision support etc...

My question is: Will I be able to stream a movie/video from my iPhone X to the 950G AND audio (from the movie) to the receiver at the same time? (synced of course).

 

[TrentS]

8K TV would be kind of an overkill at this point, wouldn't it? I mean, there is only so much 4K content out there as it is now. And most of it is only streaming content. Too many basic cable channels are still 480i, or just 1080i.

 

[DNichter]

Good to see this. Very solid move by Apple and should only help the overall ecosystem and HomeKit. My smart home stuff is rock solid and I wouldn't use any other platform.

 

[vipergts2207]

I am so pissed at all the new TVs getting airplay 2 support. I bought a TV in 2017.

Just get an ATV.

With this announcement I plan on getting XBR-75X950G. I currently run all my home audio/video through a Yamaha RX-A2080. My receiver supports airplay and can easily stream music to it but not video. I have a decent amount of movies through iTunes and would like better access to them on my home entertainment system. 4K, Dolby Atmos, Dolby vision support etc...

My question is: Will I be able to stream a movie/video from my iPhone X to the 950G AND audio (from the movie) to the receiver at the same time? (synced of course).

My guess is that you'll have to stream everything to the TV and then use ARC or optical to get audio to the receiver.

 

[Jason_G]

Anyone know if there's any chance of them bringing this to older Sony TVs? (KD-65XD9305)

Only really interested for HomeKit integration rather than Airplay

 

[fathergll]

8K TVs make me laugh. Producing 4K content is demanding enough let alone 8K. Render times would go through the roof.

While I am all for tech advancing the one thing troubling me is that 4k is still not widely adopted. Even the Superbowl has yet to be broadcasted in 4k.

 

[guzhogi]

While I am all for tech advancing the one thing troubling me is that 4k is still not widely adopted. Even the Superbowl has yet to be broadcasted in 4k.

I agree. IMO, there's a point of diminishing returns for TV resolutions. How high can it really get before people with the best vision can't tell the difference? Content is different, as you may need to zoom in and/or crop.

 

[CBlakeston]

I agree. IMO, there's a point of diminishing returns for TV resolutions. How high can it really get before people with the best vision can't tell the difference? Content is different, as you may need to zoom in and/or crop.

8K is really for 75 inches and up for store displays and such. I’m sure it will trickle down just like we have 4K phones now by some manufacturers.

I think there was a comment about 4K being ‘only streaming’ above. I’m not sure if you’ve seen a recent 4K stream? A lot are nigh indistinguishable from a physical disc and in some cases the streaming Dolby Vision version of a movie is better quality (and way cheaper) than the physical HDR10 disc.

 

[brofkand]

While I am all for tech advancing the one thing troubling me is that 4k is still not widely adopted. Even the Superbowl has yet to be broadcasted in 4k.

Many NASCAR, NBA, and MLB events have been broadcast in 4K via DirecTV. DirecTV is currently the only way to receive broadcast 4K content.

 

[scottlitch]

I have the SONY XBR-A1E65 and it has native Amazon Alexa support. I have an Apple TV 4K hooked up to it, so I don't need the built in AirPlay features, but basic voice commands to turn the set on and off would be nice via a software update that brings basic HomeKit functionality to the set. I'm guessing that this model won't get a software update. How can Alexa run on this set and show up as part of my smart home ecosystem on that platform but not on Apple's platform? It seems like they could bring some basic features to this TV so it shows up in the home app. Any thoughts?

 

[fathergll]

Many NASCAR, NBA, and MLB events have been broadcast in 4K via DirecTV. DirecTV is currently the only way to receive broadcast 4K content.

Right, it's extremely niche at the moment. Some cable companies have it as well but we are still so far away from wide adoption.

 

[brofkand]

I have the SONY XBR-A1E65 and it has native Amazon Alexa support. I have an Apple TV 4K hooked up to it, so I don't need the built in AirPlay features, but basic voice commands to turn the set on and off would be nice via a software update that brings basic HomeKit functionality to the set. I'm guessing that this model won't get a software update. How can Alexa run on this set and show up as part of my smart home ecosystem on that platform but not on Apple's platform? It seems like they could bring some basic features to this TV so it shows up in the home app. Any thoughts?

Smart features are how TV manufacturers are getting people to upgrade. They stop supporting these $1000+ TVs pretty quickly (as far as new features go) compared to how much they cost.

 

[vladi]

8K TV would be kind of an overkill at this point, wouldn't it? I mean, there is only so much 4K content out there as it is now. And most of it is only streaming content. Too many basic cable channels are still 480i, or just 1080i.

Believe it or not many 4K productions (even including popular YouTubers) are actually shot and edited in 8K and then scaled down. All new Netflix shows are 8K ready and have been for a while.

While I am all for tech advancing the one thing troubling me is that 4k is still not widely adopted. Even the Superbowl has yet to be broadcasted in 4k.

Japan started first eve 8K broadcast channel and Sony is Japanese manufacturer so there is that.

 

[jeffu]

I'm literally just about to take delivery of a Sony A8F - honestly think I'm still going to get it. I don't see a huge advantage to having this built in to the TV vs. just having an AppleTV connected? Am I missing something? Sony doesn't have Atmos, so I'd have to do that through AppleTV anyhow - right?

 

[vladi]

Sony uses lg's oled panels.
If you dont want you old tech oled sell it to me ill take it off your hands

What do you mean performance? like the software side of things? or motion?

They do use LGs OLED panels cause they are the best in the world right now but they make their own drivers and color calibration. Very similar to what Apple does with Samsung displays for X series. While I will admit there is very little difference in picture quality between Sony and LG there is still some difference in the way TV handles it. In my opinion it's subjective and you can easily adjust it to your liking but there are two segments where Sony kills every other manufacturer: upscaling the content to 4K+faux HDR and motion frame interpolation. That second feature was responsible for Sony 3DTV giving you better experience in your own home than most of the cinemas back in the day.

When it comes to software Sony was never really good at it even before Android but with Android it became even worse. I only hope for them to somehow figure out they still have all of the employees who currently make and maintain great Walkman OS that made them dump Android on Walkmans all together..

 

[brofkand]

I'm literally just about to take delivery of a Sony A8F - honestly think I'm still going to get it. I don't see a huge advantage to having this built in to the TV vs. just having an AppleTV connected? Am I missing something? Sony doesn't have Atmos, so I'd have to do that through AppleTV anyhow - right?

That's like saying you don't need a Roku STB if you have a Roku-enabled TV. Of course you don't, it's built in.

The appeal is you don't need an Apple TV if you own one of these TV's and only need the iTunes store/AirPlay/HomeKit features of the Apple TV STB. The AppleTV games, remote, etc., will likely still require a separate Apple TV STB, at least for a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple license tvOS after this move.

 

[bluespark]

Home kit and Siri are so far behind Amazon Alexa it’s a joke. So far, that I feel like Tony Stark walking around my Malibu mansion. Apple completely dropped the ball on both. Sincerely, an Apple fanboy.

Many of us would agree with you on Siri vs. Alexa. But HomeKit? I don't think Amazon has an equivalent. I can open a door with a lock from one manufacturer and, if a specified interval after sundown (for example), activate a lighting scene from another manufacturer. I'm not aware of any similar functionality with Alexa, which seems voice-focused period. Am I missing something?
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They do use LGs OLED panels cause they are the best in the world right now but they make their own drivers and color calibration. Very similar to what Apple does with Samsung displays for X series. While I will admit there is very little difference in picture quality between Sony and LG there is still some difference in the way TV handles it. In my opinion it's subjective and you can easily adjust it to your liking but there are two segments where Sony kills every other manufacturer: upscaling the content to 4K+faux HDR and motion frame interpolation. That second feature was responsible for Sony 3DTV giving you better experience in your own home than most of the cinemas back in the day.

When it comes to software Sony was never really good at it even before Android but with Android it became even worse. I only hope for them to somehow figure out they still have all of the employees who currently make and maintain great Walkman OS that made them dump Android on Walkmans all together..

I'm an LG owner but I agree wholeheartedly with this. Sony upscales way better. And that matters quite a bit since most content isn't 4K.

 

[adrianlondon]

There's no need for the Apple TV 4K.

AirPlay 2 supports Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Just AirPlay a 4K HDR/Atmos movie from your iPhone to your Apple TV 4K right now to see it in action. It's the same experience on TVs with AirPlay 2 built in: https://twitter.com/reckless/status/1082379989478076416

I'm still not clear. The twitter conversation implies that nothing is streamed over AirPlay apart from a URL to the film, which the TV then streams directly. I assume these new TVs can then send Atmos over ARC to a receiver.

 

[fathergll]

Japan started first eve 8K broadcast channel and Sony is Japanese manufacturer so there is that.

Yep I think it's a limited content channel for now and the first live broadcast is the 2020 Olympics.

Way back in 2012 this article hits the nail on the head for the push of the new sets. They essentially need to this new tech to move new TVs(money) as 3D failed.

The only thing thats going to stink is premium sets are going to be focusing on 8k sooner than latter and not focusing on advancing the current 4k sets and we're then going to be in another round of upgrading gear. 1080p had a lot of years of to mature and Pioneer hit the peak of the tech in 2008 and it became stagnant as the manufactures didn't catch up until 2013 after Pioneer dropped out. There are still improvements to be made for the current 4k sets and now the siren call of 8k will slow that as attention will be towards 8k in a few years in the premium space.

It's possible that 4k Bluray will be the last physical format and that we will be going streaming only for 8k in the future which will essentially mean 4k Bluray will be a outdated format sooner than later.


http://www.definitionmagazine.com/j...-8k-broadcasts-if-you-live-in-korea-or-j.html

One of the driving forces behind this standard are the HDTV manufacturers like Samsung, Sony and Panasonic. The business of selling HD flat panels isn’t the cash cow it once was as prices have levelled so a re-invention of the technology is needed as 3D also seems to be faltering. But there are also some proven social reasons for higher resolution panels that will please commercial broadcasters, David Wood, “It has been proven that the higher picture quality you have the longer you will watch the programme for. So programme makers in a sense get more value for the product. In my role at the EBU we have discussed what we call the ‘zapping point’, the point where the viewer changes channel. There was study done in France where people were shown exactly the same programme, in exactly the same viewing conditions in both SD and HD and the HD versions pushed the zapping point up around 30%. It’s probable that the same effect will happen when you introduce Ultra High Definition television 4K and then when we go up to 8K.”

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Home kit and Siri are so far behind Amazon Alexa it’s a joke. So far, that I feel like Tony Stark walking around my Malibu mansion. Apple completely dropped the ball on both. Sincerely, an Apple fanboy.

I can maybe agree that Siri is worse than Alexa on the digital assistant front, but how is HomeKit inferior to Alexa? Other than a smaller variety of devices (that can be remedied by homebridge), I feel like HomeKit can do everything Alexa can and do it faster. The customization options is also much nicer imo with scenes, Apple TV/iPad automation, and Shortcuts.
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Is Apple not concerned about these new features cannibalizing Apple TV sales? I am all for these additions and I know the Apple TV offers a different experience but for most people having air play streaming from their iPhone to their tv would be enough to pass on buying the Apple TV instead. I’m sure Apple isn’t making these TV manufacturers pay licensing fees equivalent to the price of an Apple TV.

You’re forgetting that Apple is planning to release a streaming service. If Apple Music is any indication, it’ll be available on every platform. If Apple can get a monthly subscription going, the loss of Apple TV revenue should be remedied very quickly.

 

[cardfan]

I can maybe agree that Siri is worse than Alexa on the digital assistant front, but how is HomeKit inferior to Alexa? Other than a smaller variety of devices (that can be remedied by homebridge), I feel like HomeKit can do everything Alexa can and do it faster. The customization options is also much nicer imo with scenes, Apple TV/iPad automation, and Shortcuts.
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You’re forgetting that Apple is planning to release a streaming service. If Apple Music is any indication, it’ll be available on every platform. If Apple can get a monthly subscription going, the loss of Apple TV revenue should be remedied very quickly.

A streaming service is a money pit for Apple. It took Netflix years and that’s when content holders like Disney basically said here...take it. Apple can not charge enough to make anything off of it. The whole idiotic purpose was to sell hardware as sort of a bonus to Apple buyers not as a Netflix wannabe.

This whole iTunes to TVs thing is desperation on apples part. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing as they sure as heck have no alternative or show any willingness to do anything else to push Apple TVs or make their own.

Now I would buy an Apple version of YouTube tv without ads.

 

[jwdsail]

Is Apple not concerned about these new features cannibalizing Apple TV sales? I am all for these additions and I know the Apple TV offers a different experience but for most people having air play streaming from their iPhone to their tv would be enough to pass on buying the Apple TV instead. I’m sure Apple isn’t making these TV manufacturers pay licensing fees equivalent to the price of an Apple TV.

I suspect that Apple is trying to pivot more into the services side of things, make more money from iTunes (music, tv shows, movies, Streaming Service to be named later) and make it available on as many devices as possible?

I'm sure future generations of AppleTV devices will offer something that will make it worth while to continue buying, but as hardware sales decline across the board, Apple will welcome more money coming in to their services no matter what hardware users have.

I, for one, would prefer more 4K/8K/HDR "Dumb-TVs", where I can easily swap out/between boxes as needed. Unless the key services on new "SmartTV" (iTunes, Netflix, Amazon, TabloTV app) have *10 years of support/updates, it's an expensive dead-end. I'd take a "DumbTV" with 2-3 years more warranty over a "SmartTV" with the same hardware specs any day?


*I've never owned a TV for less than 10 years, and don't plan on changing that any time soon...
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Even better, Apple could've just licensed tvOS to everyone LOL. I mean make a stripped down version of it for everyone else just so anyone can enjoy Apple TV interface. That'd be a great idea to throw TV market in Apple's ecosystem

That could be the long-term plan?

 

[brofkand]

A streaming service is a money pit for Apple. It took Netflix years and that’s when content holders like Disney basically said here...take it. Apple can not charge enough to make anything off of it. The whole idiotic purpose was to sell hardware as sort of a bonus to Apple buyers not as a Netflix wannabe.

This whole iTunes to TVs thing is desperation on apples part. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing as they sure as heck have no alternative or show any willingness to do anything else to push Apple TVs or make their own.

Now I would buy an Apple version of YouTube tv without ads.

It is an interesting market for them to get into. I mean Netflix spends a ton of money on content, they rake in almost $12bn a year but net income is barely over 0.5bn. And outside of a few good shows, reports I've seen show that most of their traffic is just "The Office" reruns.

There's not a lot of meat on the bone in the streaming service market I don't think. People will only pay so much, $10 a month maybe $15 if you have HBO quality content, but that's stretching it.

OTT cable services like YouTube TV and Sling are the exception since they provide much more quality content than Netflix, and can charge more. But even then I doubt they're sitting high on the hog.

These announcements do seem to point towards Apple entering this market, though. They want as many people as possible to be able to receive Apple's OTT streaming service without having to buy new hardware. Look for a Roku channel, an Android app, and maybe even an Amazon Prime Video channel at the keynote.

 

[ChrisMoBro]

While I am all for tech advancing the one thing troubling me is that 4k is still not widely adopted. Even the Superbowl has yet to be broadcasted in 4k.

The amount of bandwidth needed for 4K is crazy and that’s why the adoption is so slow. Imagine working in film and tv and having to create VFX in that resolution! We’re at least 10 years off this even making a minimal impact

 

[killhippie]

Do we know this for sure? Is there any reason why support for it wouldn't be backward compatible with a firmware update?

Sony even on my TV a Sony AF8 (UK numbering) used a MediaTek MT5891 that was way old, in fact it was used in 2015 Android TV's from Sony. The ZF9 and onwards use a faster (f you can call MediaTec fast) chipset a MT5893 so that probably the reason. Still eye watering when a 2018 OLED does not support it, but hey, that's probably the reason. Also the latest TV's are running Oreo on a updated kernel where as the early 2018 sets are on Nougat and when they do get updated the kernel will stay the same I have read because of issues with Sony's awful implementation of Dolby Vision which Sony's botched buy trying to use its X1 Extreme and now Ultimate processor.

Still eye watering when a 2018 OLED does not support it, but hey how else will they get people to buy more of the same really. It reaches a point where I looked at the ZF9 OLED and for the extra £500 could really not tell the difference (they both used the same OLED panel from 2018, and if buying now I would still not consider Airplay 2 worth £500 more nor the features I could not see that were supposedly in the image in front of me. My eyes can only see so much detail, after all.