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Chevy Volt costs $40,000 to build.

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blackhand1001 said:
Lord Blackadder said:
It has everything to do with taxes. Europeans tax gasoline (petrol) more heavily than diesel. Here, it is not really cheaper to run a diesel, at least in a broad sense. It works in certain niches, but not generally.



Ground clearance on the Escape is largely irrelevant IMO. Most SUVs, even full-sized models, never navigate anything taller than a speed bump. Even Subarus have more ground clearance than the current Escape.



I think most European Fords are better than their American counterparts. The Focus, the best small Ford in years, was not designed in the US but in the UK.

I think Americans have a huge sense of entitlement. Our car and fuel prices are artificially low, and we hold to the unreasonable notion that we can somehow keep it that way forever. I think the reality is just getting used to higher prices, buying smaller viehicles and driving less.
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The diesel grand cherokee in europe gets 28 mpg in the city. There gas v6 version here gets 16 in the city. Chrysler plans to bring the diesel here for the 2013 model year. EVen with the slightly higher diesel price here the extra fuel economy far outweighs the slight price hike per gallon.
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This is great news, hopefully other automakers will follow suit.
 
quagmire said:
Is that 28 MPG in imperial gallons or US gallons?
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1 Imperial gallon = 1.20095042 US gallons

Lord Blackadder said:
Right, the US gets a diesel truck and under 30mpg - not the 50-60mpg hatchbacks. And that is ridiculous. My Subaru already gets 28mpg.

That isn't to say I don't think it's a good idea to put a diesel in the Grand Cherokee - I do - but we aren't seeing the really fuel-sipping cars over here yet. Where, for example, is the diesel Fiat 500?
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The mileage figures for the Jeep diesel are 28mpg city 34 combined 39 highway. For an suv that is actually capable of suv things and not just a crappy fwd car with a lift this is extremely good fuel economy. The 50mpg hatchbacks are pointless because no one would buy them and they don't save as much fuel as making the larger less efficient vehicles more efficient as the hatchbacks are already fuel efficient.
 
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Did anyone see Ford making a 1 litre turbo Focus in Europe? It makes 125bhp, which is pretty commendable. I'd be interested in the amount of torque it makes though.
 
blackhand1001 said:
1 Imperial gallon = 1.20095042 US gallons





The mileage figures for the Jeep diesel are 28mpg city 34 combined 39 highway. For an suv that is actually capable of suv things and not just a crappy fwd car with a lift this is extremely good fuel economy. The 50mpg hatchbacks are pointless because no one would buy them and they don't save as much fuel as making the larger less efficient vehicles more efficient as the hatchbacks are already fuel efficient.
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Yeah. One of the car mags (Motor Trend or Car and Driver) did a write up on improving mileage. They basically showed exactly what you are saying. Improving a full-size SUV from 15 to 20MPG had a much bigger impact than raising an already efficient car from 40 to 50 MPG in terms of fuel used, carbon footprint, etc.
 
obeygiant said:
link

They better had sell a lot of these. :eek:
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On the original topic -- you could put R&D-anything in place of the Volt. Every so often, companies have to reinvent themselves or face oblivion. GM saw that the end of oil is nigh and they needed to either do something now, or, give up and eventually just liquidate. They decided to try to reinvent themselves. Good for GM.

We live in a disruptive and disrupted age. Investing for your retirement in "low-risk" corporate bonds is now ancient history.
 
steviem said:
Did anyone see Ford making a 1 litre turbo Focus in Europe? It makes 125bhp, which is pretty commendable. I'd be interested in the amount of torque it makes though.
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the 100hp version: 170 nm /1500-4500rpm
the 125hp version: 200 nm /1500-4500rpm

prices though are not cheap, since these are high tech engines (in austria including taxes 18,800 euro for the Focus ambient 1.0 100 hp or 20,850 euro for a 125 hp 1.0 Focus Trend

also for fuel economy the difference between tests and real lifer much depends on how much of a lead foot one has with those small turboed engines ;)

the 125hp sure is an engineering feat, the 100 HP is on par with the Fiat twin air: 875 ccm, 86 hp, 145nm/1500-3000rpm, which has in real life a rather superb sound IMHO so i expect the ford to sound just as great .... unless they screw it up

edit: Fiat has mentioned a 105 HP twin air but nothing released sadly so far
 
I wanted to rent a Volt to try it out, all they had was a Prius. Damn, the materials inside feel so cheap (even compared to stuff Chevy does) and the seats are really uncomfortable. So far I'm getting 34mpg, but will drive some more before Monday morning (including to and from Brooklyn on the morning) so will have a better opinion.

So far though, this isn't the hybrid/ev technology for me...
 
True cost is much more, and we all pay it.

The article focuses on the manufacturing cost, and only mentions the $1 billion development cost in passing.

However, it doesn't mention the estimated $3 billion in state and federal incentives provided to GM in loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. And, that's completely aside from the fact that the federal government currently owns 26% of GM.

Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle

Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'
 
ptb42 said:
The article focuses on the manufacturing cost, and only mentions the $1 billion development cost in passing.

However, it doesn't mention the estimated $3 billion in state and federal incentives provided to GM in loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. And, that's completely aside from the fact that the federal government currently owns 26% of GM.

Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle

Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'
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That's been discussed and ridiculed a few pages back....
 
localoid said:
Despite "high hopes" for going green, the current reality of this is that about 45% of a U.S. Volt owners will be using a coal-powered car.

Do you folks actually believe that U.S. "coal barons" are willing to roll over and die? Anyone who believe that is naive. The coal industry is willing to spend millions or perhaps billions to defeat any bill that they see as being "anti-coal", which includes not only cap and trade but any environmental related bill that tightens regulations on mining or burning coal.

It's really very simple -- if the country's coal barons have their way, the use coal-generated power will increase, not decrease, in coming years. In most coal-producing states, it's extremely easy to whip-up support for coal -- they simply raise the "they want to take your jobs" issue.

Unfortunately, I live in the heart of Appalachia, where there are currently more signs and bumper stickers of the "Friends of Coal" kind than there are of the "Honk if you love Jesus" variety. This pro-coal group produces pro-coal literature currently being used in the local K12 school system that "teaches" kids that coal is clean and cheap, and is an abundant energy source that shouldn't be abandoned.

Here in Appalachia, few newspapers or other media have the balls to take an "anti-coal" position and coal companies openly send thugs to disrupt environmental gatherings without fear of interference from law enforcement.

Wake up people... watch the Clean Coal for Christmas video.
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Im not really sure how anyone could be "friends" of coal, regardless of its implications on the planet, its dirty, and polluting the air that you breath (don't get me started on this clean coal ********). It should be tolerated while cleaner technology is developed, but only tolerated. Im not sure why this same enthusiasm is always directed towards dirty energy, why can't Americans take pride in a wind tower, hydroelectric dam, or a solar array? Those three things are manufacturing and technical jobs, not digging **** out of the ground to burn.
 
ptb42 said:
Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'
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As quagmire said, we've been over this, and that "analysis" is embarassingly sloppy and almost certainly politically motivated.

Zombie Acorn said:
Im not really sure how anyone could be "friends" of coal, regardless of its implications on the planet, its dirty, and polluting the air that you breath (don't get me started on this clean coal ********). It should be tolerated while cleaner technology is developed, but only tolerated. Im not sure why this same enthusiasm is always directed towards dirty energy, why can't Americans take pride in a wind tower, hydroelectric dam, or a solar array? Those three things are manufacturing and technical jobs, not digging **** out of the ground to burn.
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Nobody is really a "friend of coal". What they do support is money. It might be something as simple as keeping a job at a mine, or as complex as protecting a network of investments in the coal industry. In all cases it is short-sighted.
 
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