China Times Echoes Poor HomePod Sales and Rumors About Possible Lower-Priced Version

[vipergts2207]

They are not going to take a loss on it, Apple doesn't do loss leaders. I believe the raw parts cost was around $265.

Edit: And is before software development, marketing, etc...

A smaller one won't cost as much though. Smaller woofer, maybe 2.5-3", and drop it down to just 4-5 tweeters instead of 7.

 

[Solver]

Apple blew it! I’d buy four HomePods if Apple would have made these things all work together seamlessly in my entertainment room. As it is I only have one great sounding “mono” unit. Still waiting, but won’t wait long.

 

[deanthedev]

Out of curiosity, since you claim to be an "audiophile", what are you going to do about the missing sub frequencies, or how to bring out the lacking mids more, and how can you flatten the adulterated sound signature that Apple layers its tracks with? I would have figured someone who does production and recording, would not settle for sub-par equipment.

I'm not going to do anything, because for the size the HomePod is the best sounding speaker you can buy. It's not going to be anywhere near the quality of my PSB's with Bryston amplification, but it doesn't have to be. The whole idea of a HomePod is it will allow me to get decent sound in any room I want without having to do anything more than plug it in and turn it on.

As I've explained numerous times before, it's asinine to think that an "audiophile" will ONLY listen to a high-end sound system and nothing else. Do you actually think someone who appreciates good sound refuses to turn on the radio in their car because of the lower sound quality compared to their home system? Or refuses to listen to music at work for the same reasons?

When I want to do serious listening I'll retire to my sound/theatre room. For the rest of the time I'd prefer a compact, quality speaker that still sounds good no matter where I put it.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

No one that values audio quality would subscribe to Apple Music or use iTunes (with its noted lack of FLAC support. ALAC conversions are a waste of time.)

Actually, Apple is finally showing some love for FLAC:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-support-flac-audio-files-itunes-still-doesnt

 

[kawalerzysta]

You have Sonos Play:3 which cost the same as HomePod, but the HomePod cost too much? You realize the Play:3 is much closer to the hardware in the HP, really more like the Play:5. HomePod is amazing with HomeKit stuff. My Echo has been moved to the basement, HP is just too fast.
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Not going to happened.

Sonos 3 is $100 cheaper then HP.

 

[Tonewheel]

1. Lower the price.

2. Beef up Siri to be at least on par with the competition.

3. Integration.

 

[npmacuser5]

Agreed. A majority of people who buy these smart speakers are perfectly satisfied by the audio quality of their Amazon/Google “ladies in a can.” They’re not audiophiles in any respect, “does it get loud enough to fill the room during a party” is the extent of their evaluative criteria.

Should audiophile and streaming be used in the same conversation?

 

[outskirtsofinfinity]

I've been wanting a couple of these for a long time now, but they simply aren't available here. Maybe they should start selling them in more civilized parts of the world, like Canada, and sales would take off.

 

[Elmo1938]

I think much of the smart speaker "phenom" is overrated. I don't want to talk to my home, and I am sure most others don't want to as well.

don't agree
I started adding Home kit gadgets to my home. The ability to command lights and other home gadgets from your iPhone or Homepod or via Siri is great. really useful when I was bedridden with the flu

My only complaint is with Siri's intelligence. It's far behind Alexa. Apple would make more progress fixing the feature list of Siri than fixing the feature set of Homepod

 

[ipedro]

It’s amazing how so many people miss the pattern. Apple releases a high priced device in a new product category that is a barebones base foundation to build on and everyone criticizes them and predicts their doom. Then a few generations in, that product is everywhere and the one to beat.

Apple Watch was a “failure” according to many people posting here. Too expensive (almost double its competitors) and didn’t do enough. Today, 3 generations in, it’s on wrists everywhere and the platform has grown and continues to grow. It’s got the potential to becoming one of Apple’s most successful products.

Speaking of successful products. The iPod was so basic, missing many of the functions of other MP3 players on the market at the time and selling for 2 to 3 times their price. How did that work out?

The HomePod is a repeat of that formula. Build a solid foundation, pay more for a higher quality, better designed product. And it’ll improve over a couple of years to become the leader in that category. Taking 10% of a brand new product category out of the gate is no small accomplishment. The satisfaction rate with HomePod is very good. That’s what’s important. Happy customers who are buying a 2nd and 3rd HomePod because they love their first one will translate into word of mouth new customer sales. And eventually, everyone has one in their home and the critics curiously disappear.

 

[citysnaps]

Riight, those "who do" appreciate room acoustics adaptation when playing compressed crap on a $350 locked box. Great appreciation.

Mine sounds great. Yours doesn't? How long have you owned one?

 

[9081094]

This is how the market economy works:

Company releases product at $X
Market bares that $X is too expensive for product
Company adjusts product based on market demand

With this product adjustments will likely be related to siri integration/quality and price. I imagine there will be two homepods in the category: a "pro" (current model) and a more basic model (echo dot).

I am not personally in the market for a homepod pro (trademark pending) as I have plenty of things that play music at quality levels that suit my need (discerning but not audiophilic) but I would definitely be in the market for a homepod "air" or "mini." I think this is the market Apple will attack. The first product is always on the steep end to feel the market out.

This was similarly, though not exactly, the case with the watch. Series 0 came in sport, regular, and edition. This was a litmus test for the market. Apple quickly found the market was niche for the edition line but they learned, presumably, that there was a much larger market for the regular and sport tiers.

TL;DR Homepod pro will lead the way for the category but will not be the most "successful" (read: highest selling) in the category for Apple

I’m not sure people are waiting for an HomePod mini. I think people are waiting for something that really works for a decent price. The HomePod and the HomePod mini have three big limitations: Siri, closed system and limited functionality. If it was really that good, it would sell even with the extra Apple tax.

 

[dfs]

Look at other Apple audio products such as AirPod, Beats X and the Beats Studio3. Same business model there: in terms of both audio quality and price they are positioned to compete against high-end rivals such as Bose and B&O, not mass market stuff like Skull Candy. So why am I not seeing the slightest criticism of Apple's adoption of the same business model regarding its other audio products? Across its entire line of audio offerings Apple has chosen to aim for the high-end niche rather than the mass market. And what's wrong about that? In doing so with the HomePod, Apple elected to move into an unpopulated area, whereas if it went for a lower price point and settled for less quality it would have been challenging a market already highly populated and well served by rival brands. Is that really so stupid?

In the frequent criticisms of the HomePod's limitations as it currently exists, it is not common to see any candid acknowledgement that many if not all of these objections might and probably will be addressed by future updates to both its software and its firmware. Truth is, we have no idea how radical these changes may turn out to be, and that it likely we will have some major surprises in store. Sure, buying into the HomePod right now involves a certain leap of faith. I wouldn't have bought a pair if I were convinced that what I was originally getting was all I would ever have. But I have a good deal more faith than that in Apple's ability to introduce improvements in the products it initially puts out. Looking at its corporate track record, I feel very comfortable that I have made a sound investment.

As for Siri, yeah, by comparison with AI rivals currently available it sucks like a gaping chest wound. Anybody care to make a serious bet that even as we speak Apple isn't working 24/7 to turn this situation around? Anybody care to seriously bet that it isn't capable of pulling this off?

 

[9081094]

1. Lower the price.

2. Beef up Siri to be at least on par with the competition.

3. Integration.

Maybe by the year 2020. You know... Apple is kind of sloooooooooowwww. No macmini or new MacPro since 2012. But according to Cook these are very important parts of Apple and they’re truly committed

Just rebadge an HP already, put some Apple tax on it and voila... everybody happy

 

[pcorrado]

That would be nice. Probably not in this Apple era, but hopefully in another.

I asked my HomePod to add something to a list the other day and Siri responded with: "hmmm . . . I don't see an app for that on your HomePod, please visit the app store" or something similar. Probably just a canned response I have misunderstood but still gave me home that third party app support is coming.

Such support is not likely until either iOS 12 as I imagine they would need a separate HomePod app to manage it all. Right now, managing HomePod post install is kind of annoying.

 

[citysnaps]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but quoting Apple's ad copy doesn't help your argument. It just sounds like you're parroting Apple's bullet points. You're more than capable of conveying your thoughts independent of Apple's marketing terminology. Just my opinion of course.

On topic: Imo, the HP starts off handicapped because Apple wants it that way. They are more interested in getting people invested in the ecosystem than simply selling a speaker. If they wanted stellar sales they would have made the speaker more accessible outside of the garden. Add BT connectivity and couple of other i/o options and you have a speaker with good sound and a higher level of desirability beyond the core Apple fan... Siri notwithstanding. They built a speaker that requires iOS and makes music outside of AM an undesirable prospect.

And that is not quoting Apple's ad copy - I'd be astonished if you found any Apple quote that matches - please try and find something. My comment comes from understanding the technology (being an electrical engineer who specializes in signal processing, with beamformed/adaptive processing experience in RF-based communications systems) and how it was adapted to deliver the (IMO) excellent sound that it does, in any room I've used it.

That's also tempered with being a little skeptical before purchase, feeling there was a 50/50 chance on returning the unit within the 14 day period - it is expensive, after all. After months of use now, I'm delighted every day I use it.

 

[44267547]

Sadly, I don't think I'd even pay $50 for one. Siri is not very good.

Have you actually used the HomePod to judge Siri at all? If you read a lot of remarks, Siri actually works very well on the HomePod and the sensitivity with the microphone is outstanding. Most likely use Siri for basic commands with HomeKit, changing/selecting songs, and seemingly the Siri functionality for the HomePod is not a major issue with communication.

I think most people who'd use this already have Alexa or Google. If Apple was going to be so late to the party, they really needed to make a killer unit.

Wrong comparison to the HomePod. Those are smart speakers primarily what you’re referring to with Google home or Amazon echo/dot, as the HomePod is sound oriented first, and a smart speaker second. That’s the difference between what you’re buying between a sound experience versus a basic smart speaker.

 

[inkswamp]

Apple releasing a dumb speaker for $350 isn’t going to be acceptable in 2018

Siri can’t even set two timers at once on the thing haha

You often have a need for two timers to be running simultaneously? I'm not trying to dismiss the shortcomings of Siri or the Homepod, both of which are inexcusable for that price, but I find it amusing that people keep bringing this specific thing up. My wife and I do lots and lots of cooking and baking in our home and I honestly don't recall the last time we needed two timers. I don't recall needing two timers for anything. Is this really an issue you think Apple needs to spend time and energy addressing?

 

[9081094]

Just for context - if Apple sells that many (2.4 million) per year, at a 20% net profit margin (Apple's average last year was closer to 21%), that's $168 million in profit per year from the HomePod. I know that's a drop in the bucket of Apple's profits but how many companies would love "poor sales" profiting them $168 million?

Apple could have narrower margins on the HomePod (R&D, start-up costs, etc.) but it's not something they are losing money on. Of course, if it flops then they could lose money on it but so far nothing indicates a flop.

What if the headline, instead of "China Times Echoes Poor HomePod Sales" was "Apple HomePod Estimated Profits Greater than GDP of Some Nations"? That's a little click-baity but ostensibly correct. If my estimate is accurate there are about 3 countries with lower GDPs than HomePod profits.

A side note: if Apple was a country, its revenue would put it ranked about #46 for GDP size. If we focus just on net profits (which isn't fair because many/most countries deficit spend), Apple is ranked about #87 (GDP size comparison) from profits alone.

Not that many R&D cost because the design is a total rip off from the Harman Kardon Aura. Which I believe is bought by Samsung. So we can soon see a better Samsung HomePod, cheaper, better and more affordable than apple’s offerings. Oh, and it will work with Apple too, lol.

 

[dampfnudel]

My Target has had the same two HomePods (one black, one white) in stock for weeks.

HomePod is an underwhelming product. Both my wife and daughter miss the old Sonos: Play 1 we had before HomePod.

That why my two Sonos: Play 1 speakers are staying in my home for now. I’ll replace them someday, but unless the HomePod Series 2 is significantly better in integrating other services as well as being priced more reasonably ($200-250), the replacement will be another Sonos.

 

[HermanMunster]

I think there is a market for a cheap smart speaker. I have a couple of the small Amazon echo units that i picked up cheap and i use them to control smart home devices like lights, heating, security and home theatre. I could control all of this with my phone but it is way more convenient telling Alexa to turn off the reading lamp and rolling over in bed without having to fish out my phone or reach out to find the lamp switch.

Funny how you have a modern smart everything but still read from old fashioned paper . But yeah, I guess you're right, there seems to be a market for those smart speakers. I'm just out of it for the time being

 

[Aluminum213]

You often have a need for two timers to be running simultaneously? I'm not trying to dismiss the shortcomings of Siri or the Homepod, both of which are inexcusable for that price, but I find it amusing that people keep bringing this specific thing up. My wife and I do lots and lots of cooking and baking in our home and I honestly don't recall the last time we needed two timers. I don't recall needing two timers for anything. Is this really an issue you think Apple needs to spend time and energy addressing?

It doesn't matter what I need it for, it's a basic feature that even the most dumb AI services can do

 

[MarkB786]

If I want good sound there are better speakers for less. Siri just isn't very good.

I sometimes wonder if Siri just recognizes one word I say, and then pulls a random response from a list.

Tim better get the computers updated soon! Your pet projects aren't working.

The next big focus area is TV shows. Gotta love Apple's allocation of resources to what really matters. Who needs meaningful hardware updates anyway?

 

[macfacts]

You guys realize that 200,000 per month, means 2.4 million per year, right? Doesn't sound too bad to me, considering what it is.

The story is talking about shipments, not sales. Also it is 200,000 per month for the 2nd quarter (3 months total) and that is down from 500,000 from the first quarter. No where close to 2.4 million per year.

 

[ani4ani]

I see you left out audio quality. That's where HomePod excels.

Some people value audio quality when listening to music, and don't mind paying more.

It is truly is not high audio quality and it certainly does not excel; it might be the best quality you have heard, but honestly the quality is exactly what you get from a small tube with 7 speakers crammed in. It is adequate for the compressed audio files that folks listen to these days and for that pretty good. People who really value sound quality, e.g. an "Audiophile" don't waste $350 on a tube of speakers sitting on a cork mat; they spend considerably more for "high quality" sound.