CINEBENCH! AMD Radeon R9 M370X

[sebseb]

I have it on a stand and bought a small fan to blow more air at it. Right now the temperatures don't get hotter than about 65 degrees when playing. Overall though if the stock fans are not powerful enough then why are we even debating graphics on this forum if the computer will fry itself? Just a question because I don't do video editing but I know that is also graphics intesive.

I think gaming is a lot more intense than video editing. But even then there's people reporting that the dGPU died. What has got me worrying is the anti glare coating on the screen. I just found out that the glass is different than the previous gen MBP. There's links showing that the coating comes off.

 

[revenent]

Been gaming on my 2012 Retina MacBook Pro intensively. On weekends it is literally running Starcraft 2 for almost 8 hours. Yeah i am too lazy to turn it off when i take naps and have my meals. Plugged in to power continuously. Thus far no issues o)

To me, benchmarks are not important. I only look at playable frame rates. And if this new refresh allows me to play at a higher framerate, closer to maxed graphics and resolution, all the better.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I think gaming is a lot more intense than video editing. But even then there's people reporting that the dGPU died. What has got me worrying is the anti glare coating on the screen. I just found out that the glass is different than the previous gen MBP. There's links showing that the coating comes off.

There are millions of these computers sold every year and the screen coating coming off is a very rare issue. If you look at any comsumer product forum you'll just see issues and complaints and you'll never buy anything. Just follow apples cleaning guidelines, (slightly damp cloth only) and you should be good.

 

[sebseb]

There are millions of these computers sold every year and the screen coating coming off is a very rare issue. If you look at any comsumer product forum you'll just see issues and complaints and you'll never buy anything. Just follow apples cleaning guidelines, (slightly damp cloth only) and you should be good.

I've decided not to even clean it! I'll carry a knife and if I see anyone's fingers coming close to the display, I'll just chop them off.

Did they have this coating on the earlier 2008-2011 MBP? or they start doing it to rMBP?

 

[iKrivetko]

Since the M370x is a little bit slower than the M275, here's some M275 vs 950M benchmarks to show how much Apple has shafted us on their cost-saving move...

Hint: the slower benchmarks are the M275

How is the 370x slower than the 275?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I've decided not to even clean it! I'll carry a knife and if I see anyone's fingers coming close to the display, I'll just chop them off.

Did they have this coating on the earlier 2008-2011 MBP? or they start doing it to rMBP?

It started on the rMBP it is an anti-glare measure, and it works quite well the glare is a lot better on the rMBP compared to the cMBP.

 

[leman]

I've decided not to even clean it! I'll carry a knife and if I see anyone's fingers coming close to the display, I'll just chop them off.

I remember someone starting a poll about how many people on these boards have actually experienced coating issues and the result was pretty much zero. You are more likely to experience lag, GPU failure, severe overheating, screen discolouration, uneven keyboard and trackpad, WIFi issues... did I forget one of the many horrors that plague the rMBP?

 

[dusk007]

How is the 370x slower than the 275?

Notebookcheck reports the m275 at 925Mhz while the 370x that Apple uses runs at 800Mhz. If it is otherwise the same chip that puts it 15% behind.
Better benchmarks scores are probably due to updated drivers and the CPU it comes paired with. Notebookcheck does not frequently rerun benchmarks with new drivers and you always have to keep in mind that they test notebooks not gpus on a test rig. If the chip is paired with a quad core or a 15W CPU can make a difference in the scores.

Like most games are usually not very cpu dependent if the fps are in below 40 fps but above that cpu comes more into play. The 850M is tested with various chips and the 15W dual cores the m275 is paired with score ~2900 in firestrike graphics and the quad cores from 3100 to all the way to 3600. You can also check various 750M scores to see what difference driver optimizations make in the scores. They range from 1500 all the was to to 2000 pts.

 

[Significant1]

If the chip is paired with a quad core or a 15W CPU can make a difference in the scores.

That is actually the case. If you check the details, you will se that all M275 benchmarks are performed on a i7-4500u cpu compared to 4870HQ for all M370 tests.

 

[leman]

That is actually the case. If you check the details, you will se that all M275 benchmarks are performed on a i7-4500u cpu compared to 4870HQ for all M370 tests.

Ok, this makes sense. But then one shouldn't take the M275 benchmarks on that site as a yardstick for M370X's performance.

 

[Maxx Power]

Notebookcheck reports the m275 at 925Mhz while the 370x that Apple uses runs at 800Mhz. If it is otherwise the same chip that puts it 15% behind.
Better benchmarks scores are probably due to updated drivers and the CPU it comes paired with. Notebookcheck does not frequently rerun benchmarks with new drivers and you always have to keep in mind that they test notebooks not gpus on a test rig. If the chip is paired with a quad core or a 15W CPU can make a difference in the scores.

Like most games are usually not very cpu dependent if the fps are in below 40 fps but above that cpu comes more into play. The 850M is tested with various chips and the 15W dual cores the m275 is paired with score ~2900 in firestrike graphics and the quad cores from 3100 to all the way to 3600. You can also check various 750M scores to see what difference driver optimizations make in the scores. They range from 1500 all the was to to 2000 pts.

There is a lot of leeway for the memory clocks on the existing M275/M270 and your source Notebookcheck does mention: "However, some notebook manufactures will choose sligthly slower memory (often 1000 MHz / 4000 MHz effective)."

So I can see how in memory intensive situations, the memory bandwidth becomes the limiting factor and the overall performance can be slower than the M370X. Perhaps that is where some of the variance comes from as well ? Higher resolutions are usually memory-bound and not CPU-bound.

 

[bryanck]

If you are comparing the old rMBP with the new, you need to compare benchmarks for the R9 M370X to the 755M, not the plain vanilla 750M which sometimes comes with slow DDR3 instead of GDDR5. That lowers its benchmark average. Either that or specifically compare to the GDDR5-equipped 750M in the rMBP. If you do that, you will see that this upgrade is fairly underwhelming.

 

[leman]

If you are comparing the old rMBP with the new, you need to compare benchmarks for the R9 M370X to the 755M, not the plain vanilla 750M which sometimes comes with slow DDR3 instead of GDDR5. That lowers its benchmark average. Either that or specifically compare to the GDDR5-equipped 750M in the rMBP. If you do that, you will see that this upgrade is fairly underwhelming.

A poster in this thread has run some side-by-side benchmarks (his 750M equipped machine even had a faster CPU). You can see them here: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21341598/

Its not 'dramatic', but I would't call it underwhelming. Its comparable to the HD 6770M -> 650M we saw in 2012

 

[magbarn]

A poster in this thread has run some side-by-side benchmarks (his 750M equipped machine even had a faster CPU). You can see them here: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21341598/

Its not 'dramatic', but I would't call it underwhelming. Its comparable to the HD 6770M -> 650M we saw in 2012

It's a dead horse by now, but the big elephant in the room is the fact that the 6770M and 650M were the best GPU's for their time with the amount of power/heat consumed/generated. The m370x is not the best GPU available today for the 40-50 watt TDP class and when we're paying 'the best prices' we expect the 'best hardware'.

 

[leman]

It's a dead horse by now, but the big elephant in the room is the fact that the 6770M and 650M were the best GPU's for their time with the amount of power/heat consumed/generated. The m370x is not the best GPU available today for the 40-50 watt TDP class and when we're paying 'the best prices' we expect the 'best hardware'.

Oh, I definitively agree with you. A problem on forums is that so many messages get conflated and confused. My position on the matter is: 1) I am dissapointed and puzzled that Apple did not choose the best-in-class GPU for the appropriate TDP (40-50W), which would certainly be Nvidia Maxwell and 2) that aside, I think that m370x is a solid (even though not the best possible) upgrade from the 750M.

 

[fat jez]

Oh, I definitively agree with you. A problem on forums is that so many messages get conflated and confused. My position on the matter is: 1) I am dissapointed and puzzled that Apple did not choose the best-in-class GPU for the appropriate TDP (40-50W), which would certainly be Nvidia Maxwell and 2) that aside, I think that m370x is a solid (even though not the best possible) upgrade from the 750M.

Constraint one is TDP or thermal dissipation. Constraint two is power draw (not the same as constraint one, although it will be nearly). Constraint 3 is cost. Apple will build to a price and I suspect AMD offered the best deal.

Apple will have gone with the option that satisfied all of those. nVidia may have wanted too much money. Ask yourself why there's no nVidia kit in the PS4 or Xbox either?

 

[magbarn]

Constraint one is TDP or thermal dissipation. Constraint two is power draw (not the same as constraint one, although it will be nearly). Constraint 3 is cost. Apple will build to a price and I suspect AMD offered the best deal.

Apple will have gone with the option that satisfied all of those. nVidia may have wanted too much money. Ask yourself why there's no nVidia kit in the PS4 or Xbox either?

Probably because they're a lot smarter with their R&D money than AMD? The console business is unfortunately low-margin and has not helped AMD's bottom line AT ALL. They're in much worse financial shape before they started building APU's for Sony/Microsoft...

In fact, I'm starting to agree with some of the posters here who have stated that this is a charity case for Apple to keep AMD afloat (so they can keep supplying nMP/iMacs) as their GPU market share has basically tanked. There are hardly any AMD design wins other than Apple these days.

 

[fat jez]

Think you missed my point nVidia have probably priced themselves out of Apple's market, probably because they don't need the revenue. I don't think Apple would have gone AMD out of charity!

 

[leman]

I would also be skeptical about the charity case theory. Its not really Apple's style. Let's see if AMD has some luck with Fiji!

 

[Stacc]

Constraint one is TDP or thermal dissipation. Constraint two is power draw (not the same as constraint one, although it will be nearly). Constraint 3 is cost. Apple will build to a price and I suspect AMD offered the best deal.

Maxwell is not great for compute, which is something Apple is concerned about. It is good for some workloads, but does not have the all around performance that AMD does. This was a big compromise for Maxwell, as Nvidia (and AMD) was stuck at 28nm, they sacrificed compute performance for gaming performance. To be fair though, there are some workloads that benefit from Maxwell.

Some benchmarks on barefeats compares the desktop version of maxwell to some other GPUs, and does not find the dominating performance that some in this thread would lead you to believe.

Barefeats Compute

Barefeats Games

Last, TDP in laptops is a big deal. All reports indicate the 950m uses more power and has to dissipate more heat than the 750m. While Apple may technically be able to fit it, the trade offs in battery life and noise levels is something Apple would most likely not want to make. Not to mention the machine could significantly drain the battery while plugged in under heavy workloads.

 

[dusk007]

Think you missed my point nVidia have probably priced themselves out of Apple's market, probably because they don't need the revenue. I don't think Apple would have gone AMD out of charity!

But the Apple 15" are the most expensive notebooks on the market for the hardware, they really shouldn't be the cheap ones when notebooks selling for half the price can accomodate a 960M. BTW dGPUs are of the 960M kind are small chips they actually sell for not that much money. Nvidia probably increased prices but they are still far below Intel CPU prices. A 330M (2010 MBP) back in the day cost an OEM like 25-30$ for the GPU alone and 20$ for the memory. It is probably more now but I am guessing still under 100$.

 

[magbarn]

Maxwell is not great for compute, which is something Apple is concerned about. It is good for some workloads, but does not have the all around performance that AMD does. This was a big compromise for Maxwell, as Nvidia (and AMD) was stuck at 28nm, they sacrificed compute performance for gaming performance. To be fair though, there are some workloads that benefit from Maxwell.

Some benchmarks on barefeats compares the desktop version of maxwell to some other GPUs, and does not find the dominating performance that some in this thread would lead you to believe.

Barefeats Compute

Barefeats Games

Last, TDP in laptops is a big deal. All reports indicate the 950m uses more power and has to dissipate more heat than the 750m. While Apple may technically be able to fit it, the trade offs in battery life and noise levels is something Apple would most likely not want to make. Not to mention the machine could significantly drain the battery while plugged in under heavy workloads.

The difference in compute between the 980 and the 290x in the link you posted is less than the difference in gaming between the 950m and the M370x so how is the m370x a better all-arounder? All dGPU's kill the battery if you're working them hard and really should be plugged in anyway when being used, that's the beauty of Apple's igpu/dgpu setup.

 

[bds120]

Why so much butt hurt in this thread regarding the update??

If you want it buy it, if not then wait. If you want to know why apple chose what they chose, ask them as here everything is pure speculation on why they made the decision.

If you already have a working MBP then wait until the new one comes in 6 or so months. Even then its still no guarantee the graphics are going to be sooooo much better.

Bottle line at the end of the day, Apple make good items...its your choice to wait or buy.

I am coming from an 08...yes 08 and you know why because it worked for me until now. I purchased the new model and its going to be great...PERIOD. They hold value well and if you dont like it...sell for a little off the top and get the other one in a few months.

I dont think I ever seen adults (which I am assuming adults) cry so much over a product. You doing all this complaining is not going to be a new MBP in your hands tomorrow so let it go.

 

[HarryT]

Im just buying this then upgrading to Skylake. This is the best of both worlds...I get a new machine now and then I get the better update later.

The resell value of MBP's is pretty good.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Any real world/usage benchmarks and thoughts on this? How much faster than previous gen with 750m. How is your experience gaming (fps) or video editing or...??? I have the 2nd Retina MBP with 750m so I won't be upgrading, but I have a friend who is considering the upgrade. Any and all thoughts or benchmarks appreciated