Class Action Lawsuit Accuses Apple of Crippling iPhone 4s With iOS 9 Update

[Rogifan]

So let's see...Apple allows downgrades or just stops updating older devices, then you'll get people suing claiming Apple is intentionally withholding features in order to get you to upgrade to a new device. If you think everything is some grand conspiracy then there's nothing Apple can do that you wouldn't be cynical about.

 

[LovingTeddy]

And as I said my iPhone 4s ran perfectly on iOS 9. Let's swap more useless anecdotes that prove nothing!!

So then your point does not stand. So what is the point? When you said PC slows down overtime, I said not necessarily. Then you said iOS 9 runs perfectly on your iPhone 4S. Let's just assume it is true, then you just disprove yourself. If it is not true, then Apple is doing terrible job on optimizing iOS 9. If Windows can run perfectly on old hardware, iOS 9 can.

 

[SesameWasher]

Anyone know why iOS9 it's slower?

 

[SesameWasher]

So then your point does not stand. So what is the point? When you said PC slows down overtime, I said not necessarily. Then you said iOS 9 runs perfectly on your iPhone 4S. Let's just assume it is true, then you just disprove yourself. If it is not true, then Apple is doing terrible job on optimizing iOS 9. If Windows can run perfectly on old hardware, iOS 9 can.

Smartphones SoC it's a different story when it comes vs. the PC. We hardly got any major performance boosts for the CPU while SoC boosts fast as they can.
Speaking of that, I think OS X did a better job.

 

[braddick]

Not always an ability to afford a new iPhone, yet perhaps simply a preference. iOS6 does run smoother on the iP4S than iOS9.
Probably a lawsuit isn't appropriate, but why doesn't Apple simply allow 4S users the ability to downgrade to iOS6 and call it a day?
I'd guess less than 2% of iPhone users are 4S users so the ability to downgrade wouldn't affect the other 98%.

I just don't see a downside.

 

[tYNS]

All I'm saying is I don't think a court can force Apple to do this. And it's stupid to think that Apple intentionally cripples older devices. Why would they intentionally create a poor user experience for the customer? Doing so makes them much less likely to retain that customer in the future.

I understand your argument that apple wants to move forward and truly believes they are giving people more functionality. The simple fact remains though that people noticed their device performance degrade with the introduction of iOS 7. I believe their push to move people to iCloud services over shadowed user experience. I honestly wish I could keep iOS 6 responsiveness and have the benefit of running the new photos app from iOS 9. Safari was the application that suffered most. It functioned nicely on iOS 6, it has been fairly unusable from iOS 7 onward on the iPad 2.

I can also see the other side of this argument, if apple didn't allow future upgrading and kept everyone back at iOS 6. The ability to move backwards to at least an agreeably stable iOS version should be an option in my opinion.

 

[Blaze4G]

What happens when that software ruins your device? Too bad, so sad?

That's a pretty awful precedent to set. At the very least, the only thing Apple would need to do is allow you to revert back to an older version of iOS. That would solve this whole issue for once and for all.

Are you crazy? If Apple does this they won't be able to show a pie chart at their next I/O showing the fragmentation of Android compared to iOS.

*sarcasm*

 

[Rogifan]

Your trying to be hypocritical and twist the argument all the time, I see through you. So on the one hand you state who is forcing you to update, than on the other hand you state why should app developers not be forced by Apple to update their apps for a 'great user experience', which potentially means the app won't run on older iOS versions like iOS 6 that your sister runs, not all apps run on older iOS versions after being updated to support the latest version.

Which is it you support? Let me guess you'll claim that if you want to use apps you should buy a new Apple device?

No I don't think a developer should have to support 4 different OSes. My sister can still run the last version of the app that was supported on that OS.

 

[Haxley]

And people wonder why "terms of use" are ridiculously long and hard to read. It's to prevent this from happening. #OnlyInDevelopedCountries

IMPORTANT: BY USING YOUR iPHONE, iPAD OR iPOD TOUCH (“iOS DEVICE”), YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE FOLLOWING TERMS:

A. APPLE iOS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
B. APPLE PAY SUPPLEMENTAL TERMS
C. NOTICES FROM APPLE

APPLE INC.
iOS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
Single Use License



PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (“LICENSE”) CAREFULLY BEFORE USING YOUR iOS DEVICE OR DOWNLOADING THE SOFTWARE UPDATE ACCOMPANYING THIS LICENSE. BY USING YOUR iOS DEVICE OR DOWNLOADING A SOFTWARE UPDATE, AS APPLICABLE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE, DO NOT USE THE iOS DEVICE OR DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE UPDATE.

IF YOU HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED AN iOS DEVICE AND YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THE LICENSE, YOU MAY RETURN THE iOS DEVICE WITHIN THE RETURN PERIOD TO THE APPLE STORE OR AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTOR WHERE YOU OBTAINED IT FOR A REFUND, SUBJECT TO APPLE’S RETURN POLICY FOUND AT http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies/.

1. General.
(a) The software (including Boot ROM code, embedded software and third party software), documentation, interfaces, content, fonts and any data that came with your iOS Device (“Original iOS Software”), as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system restore software provided by Apple (“iOS Software Updates”), whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (the Original iOS Software and iOS Software Updates are collectively referred to as the “iOS Software”) are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. (“Apple”) for use only under the terms of this License. Apple and its licensors retain ownership of the iOS Software itself and reserve all rights not expressly granted to you. You agree that the terms of this License will apply to any Apple-branded app that may be pre-installed on your iOS Device, unless such app is accompanied by a separate license, in which case you agree that the terms of that license will govern your use of that app.

(b) Apple, at its discretion, may make available future iOS Software Updates for your iOS Device. The iOS Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Apple releases for newer or other models of iOS Devices. The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that replace and/or supplement the Original iOS Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.

...
...
http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/full-text-of-ios-9-user-agreement/

 

[AustinIllini]

1) Can you prove they did not?
2) What do you mean?
3) Erm well yeah, read the adverts on their website.

Considering I'm defending Apple, I'm not subject to a burden of proof. You're the one claiming something without evidence.

 

[cdmoore74]

On one hand what do people expect out of a device that came out over 4 years ago? But then on the other hand should Apple continue to support a device that's 4 years old? I think a critical decision has to be made by Apple to stop supporting a product when the performance becomes detrimental to it's end users. Just to play devils advocate people really don't upgrade every year like us maniacs and are content with their device. Some people just need basic functionality. If your're still using a old device like a 4S do you really care as a customer that it has the latest OS?
And when I was deep into Android I upgraded every year because I wanted the hardware generation to match the software generation. I plan on doing the same on iOS as long as Apple does not screw up the iPhone.

 

[Rogifan]

Personally I think their is a lot of evidence to support the claim, all Apple needs to do is stop supporting older devices with iOS updates. But they won't do that as it gives them an edge in marketing claiming 'look at how many products we will install the latest iOS version onto, way more than Android..' As consistently gloated about at their keynotes.

Yeah and then they don't provide updates and people moan and complain about Apple intentionally not suporting the device to force you to upgrade. You know like people said about Siri and iPhone 4.

 

[AustinIllini]

Ok, so you are now going to try to change the discussion to the issue doesn't affect many people now then?

I bet your sample size is completely irrelevant to make any counter claim.

I'm not making any such claims, but I'm neither saddled with the burden of proof nor have I ever cited "everyone i knew"

 

[apolloa]

Considering I'm defending Apple, I'm not subject to a burden of proof. You're the one claiming something without evidence.

Oh I see, because you are defending Apple that in some way released you from ALL responsibilities to backup your argument? Sounds about right.
Well you're the one pretending this issue doesn't exist, plenty of posts on here claim otherwise already.

 

[AustinIllini]

Oh I see, because you are defending Apple that in some way released you from ALL responsibilities to backup your argument? Sounds about right.
Well you're the one pretending this issue doesn't exist, plenty of posts on here claim otherwise already.

When you claim

"X did something wrong"

A valid counter argument is "you have no evidence to prove it" and "you don't own your software, Apple does"

An invalid argument is "All three of my friends with iPhone 4s running iOS 9 are having this issue.

 

[iamMacPerson]

Is it a frivolous lawsuit? Yes, absolutely. But do the plaintiffs have a point? I think so. Apple should do for iOS what they do for OS X - provide OS security updates to users of older OSes. Last I checked, Mavericks is still being supported to this day - a desktop OS from 2013 - with Security Updates and Safari updates. 10.10 Yosemite and 10.11 El Capitan were both free updates that work with all Macs that can run Mavericks.

Why can't Apple do the same thing with iOS? Support each release for 3 years with 'security updates', and if they end user wants to stay on that firmware, let them. I see no reason Apple couldn't implement something like this with iOS when they did with OS X. I'm not saying to continue signing, say, iOS 7.1, but a modern release of iOS 7 with all the security patches, something like iOS 7.2.2. They don't need to introduce new feature or anything, just be security updates. In a case like today, iOS 7.2.2 would be signed for devices it was meant for, iOS 8.4.5 for iOS devices that could run it, and iOS 9.2 the latest release. Doesn't sound like a huge deal to me.

 

[SesameWasher]

Interesting.

smartphones didn't play the rule that PC does, so a 4s it's really outdated for sure. I'm sure utilize the A5 chip it's a hard job to do, but since iOS9 have that promise so I guess people could blame apple for that.
And maybe people gives a really big hope for them and then they failed, so people couldn't accepted it, that might be one reason.
And yes, iOS 9 seems having a lot of issues as well, the animations weren't that smooth lots of time, and last versions drain my battery life bad. I don't know what caused that issue.

 

[apolloa]

Yeah and then they don't provide updates and people moan and complain about Apple intentionally not suporting the device to force you to upgrade. You know like people said about Siri and iPhone 4.

Hmm I guess so. But Apple should stick to their guns on not supporting older devices.

I think the real solution is for Apple to allow you to downgrade if you want. But warn users in friendly language what that actually means in real terms, like loss of features. Or they could employ more people and work harder on enhancing iOS to run smoother on older devices.

 

[Rogifan]

I understand your argument that apple wants to move forward and truly believes they are giving people more functionality. The simple fact remains though that people noticed their device performance degrade with the introduction of iOS 7. I believe their push to move people to iCloud services over shadowed user experience. I honestly wish I could keep iOS 6 responsiveness and have the benefit of running the new photos app from iOS 9. Safari was the application that suffered most. It functioned nicely on iOS 6, it has been fairly unusable from iOS 7 onward on the iPad 2.

I can also see the other side of this argument, if apple didn't allow future upgrading and kept everyone back at iOS 6. The ability to move backwards to at least an agreeably stable iOS version should be an option in my opinion.

My issue is completely around the claim that Apple intentionally does this. I have no doubt that there are software engineers at Apple working their *** off trying to make the software perform better older devices. That was specifically a feature that Craig Federighi mention at WWDC. Same thing with reducing the OTA file size and things like app thinning to take up less space on devices. People here can thank Tim Cook is the biggest crock in the world but there are plenty of decent hard working engineers at Apple that aren't out to screw people and provide them a horrible user experience.

Hmm I guess so. But Apple should stick to their guns on not supporting older devices.

I think the real solution is for Apple to allow you to downgrade if you want. But warn users in friendly language what that actually means in real terms, like loss of features. Or they could employ more people and work harder on enhancing iOS to run smoother on older devices.

I can go either way on supporting downgrades. As far as your second comment employing more people isn't how it works and software development and how do we know Apple isn't working hard on this already? It's clear to me that they are but once you get to a device that's 4-5 years old how much can you realistically do? So maybe Apple needs to stop offering updates to devices that old.

 

[usarioclave]

I've always wondered why Apple stops people from downgrading. There must be some rationale for the policy...and I'd love to know what it is.

 

[joueboy]

I have a mixed feelings on this. I know that it's up to us to upgrade or not. It's always tempting to update to the latest firmware hoping that it benefits the user. When Apple advertise the latest iOS, they emphasize the good benefits and awesomeness. Then if you want to take advantage the newer features you have to buy the latest hardware. That's it! They also brag about providing updates to older models as opposed to Android devices. At least they should have a disclaimer that a 3-4 year old devices about the performance. If they really care about customer experience then they should be given the option to downgrade the firmware for older devices. That's the only thing I'm hoping for the decision and no financial benefits for the plaintiff.

 

[TheRainKing]

Can you prove
1) that Apple knowingly slowed down everyone's devices
2) all claimed phones are slower
3) Apple knowingly advertises the opposite?

Didn't think so

1) They obviously tested iOS 9 on the 4S before releasing it, so how could they not be aware that it was slower?
2) Testing a couple of 4S's with and without iOS 9 would prove that.
3) Apple always advertise their latest operating systems as superior to the previous one. They never warn users that it might slow down their device.

Regardless, we all know none of that matters. Once you agree to their terms they can pretty much do whatever they want.

 

[AustinIllini]

1) They obviously tested iOS 9 on the 4S before releasing it, so how could they not be aware that it was slower?
2) Testing a couple of 4S's with and without iOS 9 would prove that.
3) Apple always advertise their latest operating systems as superior to the previous one. They never warn users that it might slow down their device.

Regardless, we all know none of that matters. Once you agree to their terms they can pretty much do whatever they want.

Apple is not obligated to do the bold.

 

[SesameWasher]

I have a mixed feelings on this. I know that it's up to us to upgrade or not. It's always tempting to update to the latest firmware hoping that it benefits the user. When Apple advertise the latest iOS, they emphasize the good benefits and awesomeness. Then if you want to take advantage the newer features you have to buy the latest hardware. That's it! They also brag about providing updates to older models as opposed to Android devices. At least they should have a disclaimer that a 3-4 year old devices about the performance. If they really care about customer experience then they should be given the option to downgrade the firmware for older devices. That's the only thing I'm hoping for the decision and no financial benefits for the plaintiff.

Possibly the "force to upgrade" it's another act for them to control everything they have. That's kinda pity of evil, but...it's Apple.

 

[yaboyac29]

Apple's options:

Option A: release the newest software and people will bitch it's too slow, cry about it being planned and forcing you to buy a new phone.

Option B: don't release new software, people will cry and say "OMG THE FACEBOOK APP SAYS I NEED IOS 9????", in the end blaming Apple despite it not being their fault at all.

Neither are a win/win situation. Technology moves forward, not backwards. When you're developing software, you do it with the future in mind, not hardware that is 4 years old.

What is with the people defending Apple releasing updates for older devices that make them run worse?

Apple is the one who built the device. They are the ones coding these updates to run on their older devices. If the update comes out running poorly that is 100% on Apple. It's not unreasonable to expect Apple to not make your device run poorly with new updates. If they can't make new features run well on older devices, don't put that feature in the update.

then people will say that they need to buy a new phone to get the newest features..

refer to the above.