iswimbikeandrun
macrumors newbie
the jumps from 700->833->1GHZ are around 5%, where as the jumps from 2.6->2.8->3GHz are around 14%, your theory is wrong.sinisterdesign said:
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Clearing out G5s?
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ADC Price for 15" PB
US ADC price for 1.5 GHz 15" PB SD is $1999 which is $500 or 25% off the standard apple store price of $2499. The discounts don't stop there. Once you add your computer to your cart, you also can get discounts(generally 20% off for residents of the US) on add-ons such as hard drive upgrades, software (Keynote, Final Cut Express), iPods, iSights, AirPort Base Stations, JBL speaker, etc, so long as these items are purchased all together as a system. Select Members (which costs $500 per year) get one such "System" per year. In addition, if a Select Member renews membership and purchases tickets to the WWDC a the same time, they get 2 hardware discounts in the same year. In many cases, it makes little sense to sign up to be a Developer just to get the Hardware discount. But if your are developing software and/or you plan to attend the WWDC anyway, the perks are significant. As they say, "Membership has its advantages!"
El Duderino said:
US ADC price for 1.5 GHz 15" PB SD is $1999 which is $500 or 25% off the standard apple store price of $2499. The discounts don't stop there. Once you add your computer to your cart, you also can get discounts(generally 20% off for residents of the US) on add-ons such as hard drive upgrades, software (Keynote, Final Cut Express), iPods, iSights, AirPort Base Stations, JBL speaker, etc, so long as these items are purchased all together as a system. Select Members (which costs $500 per year) get one such "System" per year. In addition, if a Select Member renews membership and purchases tickets to the WWDC a the same time, they get 2 hardware discounts in the same year. In many cases, it makes little sense to sign up to be a Developer just to get the Hardware discount. But if your are developing software and/or you plan to attend the WWDC anyway, the perks are significant. As they say, "Membership has its advantages!"
Others may have asked this very same question, but does anyone think there's a chance of PCI-Express (clarification: not PCI-X) in this next revision? Right now it looks kinda dismal on the processor end of things, so maybe if the PCI-E is included, Apple can draw attention away from their processor shortcomings and broken promises. Thoughts?
Pegano said:
The the Processor situation will be dismal until June 28th
There's a very good chance that PCI Express will be included. PC chipsets are almost ready to ship with PCI Express so Apple has access to completed specifications just like any other HW developer. I'd say it's 60/40 right now in favor.
iswimbikeandrun said:
What the hell are you talking about, 833/700=1.19 so approx. 20% increase. 1000/833=1.20 so again 20% increase in clock speed. And once again 2.8/2.6=1.077 there is 7.7% increase, with 3/2.8=1.714 that makes 7.14% clock boost. Sorry friend, but you pulled those numbers out of your ass. Or were you maybe talking about benchmark increases. Either way, his theory about clock speed increases is correct, your data is faulty.
A couple of clarifications and comments.
Here is EXACTLY what Steve Jobs said at last year's WWDC. Steve said:
"Now, what about the future? We're at 2GHz today...(pause)...IBM and Apple are today announcing that within 12 months we'll be at 3GHz. Three GHz processor clock, that's up 50% within 12 months."
Some have tried to claim that Steve never said anything about a 12 month timeframe. But, I think it is plainly obvious that he did say 12 months from WWDC.
However, nearly everyone on this thread seems to be forgetting that Steve amended or changed his prediction at last year's Paris Apple Expo. In September he said that they were committed before the end of next summer to get the Power Mac G5 to 3GHz. Thus the only "promise" that needs to be kept is to ship (or perhaps only announce) a 3GHz Power Mac before the end of September. The 12-month timeframe expressed at last year's WWDC has already been retracted by Steve himself.
Here is EXACTLY what Steve Jobs said at last year's WWDC. Steve said:
"Now, what about the future? We're at 2GHz today...(pause)...IBM and Apple are today announcing that within 12 months we'll be at 3GHz. Three GHz processor clock, that's up 50% within 12 months."
Some have tried to claim that Steve never said anything about a 12 month timeframe. But, I think it is plainly obvious that he did say 12 months from WWDC.
However, nearly everyone on this thread seems to be forgetting that Steve amended or changed his prediction at last year's Paris Apple Expo. In September he said that they were committed before the end of next summer to get the Power Mac G5 to 3GHz. Thus the only "promise" that needs to be kept is to ship (or perhaps only announce) a 3GHz Power Mac before the end of September. The 12-month timeframe expressed at last year's WWDC has already been retracted by Steve himself.
As far as PCI-Express (or PCIe), I don't think that is going to happen at this year's WWDC. It would be very unusual for Apple to perform a major redesign of a motherboard architecture after only one year. Apple usually tries to get a few years out of their motherboard designs and I think the G5 Power Macs will follow that trend (i.e. expect PCI-X and AGP to remain the Power Mac standard through at least the end of 2004). Let's face it, last year's G5 intro was a major effort and breakthrough for Apple, and we probably shouldn't expect them to repeat that effort after only one year.
Someone also suggested that going to PCIe would simplify the motherboard design and thus that's a reason for Apple to introduce PCIe as soon as possible. However, I don't think that is true since at this early date you really need to support both standard PCI and PCIe (inline, backward compatible, extended expansion slots). So, the complexity and cost of the motherboard actually goes up since they have to support both types of cards and the motherboard needs to route even more interconnects.
The other option would be for Apple to completely drop PCI/PCI-X support (go PCIe-only). But that could cause a huge upheaval in the pro user community since it would mean that none of the pro's existing cards would work in the new, PCIe-only Power Mac. Thus, IMO any new Power Mac design with PCIe support would have to be joint PCI/PCIe.
You also have to consider that if Apple moves to PCIe we're talking about a return (essentially) to a rev A product. Now consider how many people have been "sitting on the fence" waiting for the rev B, G5 product. What will these people do? Will they then wait for rev B of the PCIe product?
For these reasons (and others), I suspect that PCIe will have to wait until 2005.
Someone also suggested that going to PCIe would simplify the motherboard design and thus that's a reason for Apple to introduce PCIe as soon as possible. However, I don't think that is true since at this early date you really need to support both standard PCI and PCIe (inline, backward compatible, extended expansion slots). So, the complexity and cost of the motherboard actually goes up since they have to support both types of cards and the motherboard needs to route even more interconnects.
The other option would be for Apple to completely drop PCI/PCI-X support (go PCIe-only). But that could cause a huge upheaval in the pro user community since it would mean that none of the pro's existing cards would work in the new, PCIe-only Power Mac. Thus, IMO any new Power Mac design with PCIe support would have to be joint PCI/PCIe.
You also have to consider that if Apple moves to PCIe we're talking about a return (essentially) to a rev A product. Now consider how many people have been "sitting on the fence" waiting for the rev B, G5 product. What will these people do? Will they then wait for rev B of the PCIe product?
For these reasons (and others), I suspect that PCIe will have to wait until 2005.
tny said:
Another cool thing about being a member of the ADC is that it allows you to submit bugs about any Apple software product using their online bug reporting tool: https://bugreport.apple.com/. Even if you don't consider yourself a developer, you can help Apple build better software by taking the time to submit detailed reports of the problems you encounter.
Steve Jobs's 3 GHz promise
Hey people, Steve Jobs's promise was a bold and somewhat risky thing to do because the development of a semiconductor chip is not a steady, easily predictable task. Sometimes in the course of such a process problems occur that couldn't be foreseen but it's also possible that engineers take less time than planned to design new/and or faster chips. So I'm not sure if SJ's promise was a clever move, if Apple and IBM can deliver then it was, if not, Apple will have to live with a few unhappy customers. So those of you who won't be too happy if the new PM revision tops out below the magic 3 GHz mark, keep in mind that technological progress is and always will be unpredictable!
Hey people, Steve Jobs's promise was a bold and somewhat risky thing to do because the development of a semiconductor chip is not a steady, easily predictable task. Sometimes in the course of such a process problems occur that couldn't be foreseen but it's also possible that engineers take less time than planned to design new/and or faster chips. So I'm not sure if SJ's promise was a clever move, if Apple and IBM can deliver then it was, if not, Apple will have to live with a few unhappy customers. So those of you who won't be too happy if the new PM revision tops out below the magic 3 GHz mark, keep in mind that technological progress is and always will be unpredictable!
joshuawaire said:
That's not what Apple says on the ADC Membership Overview page. Read my previous posts. Apple says that the hardware discount assets are only given to Select members when they renew, not simply when they join. The Apple ADC site seems pretty clear on this point once you locate the actual details on the plan. However, I think there are exceptions, such as if you join as a Select member AND purchase an admission to WWDC. Another exception could be if you join as a student. Also, the "rules" may be different depending upon where you live (I'm talking about the ADC policy in the U.S.A.).
If Apple has changed the policy (as you suggest), that means that the information that is on the Apple ADC site is wrong. Again, look at the quotes I posted from the ADC site. Or just visit it yourself (here is the link):
http://developer.apple.com/membership/index.html
However, I do admit that the recently announced discount on the 1.6GHz G5s is available to all ADC Select members, even those who upgrade or join between now and the end of the promo.
iswimbikeandrun
macrumors newbie
Dude, I am sorry about the first post I made, it was wrong, but so is yours, show me where you get a percentage by the quotient of the two numbers. When in fact the percentage is found by taking the two numbers, lets say 700 and 833, and the percent differnce is (833-700)/833=about 16%, and then we have (2800-2600)/2800=7.1%, for refrence (3000-2000)/2000=50%; your math is only aprroximatly correct.jared_kipe said:
iswimbikeandrun said:
You used two different formulae here. You used the new speed as the divisor in the first two cases, and then used the original one in the third, which is the only reason you got 50%. Using your method of devising increases(a wholly inaccurate one), the increase from 2 ghz to 3 is only that of 33%, as (3000-2000)/3000=33.333%.
I hate to be teaching math, since the highest I took was college algebra, but if you're using your method, you divide at the end by the original speed. So, (833-700)/700, not 833. We're doing increases. That gives you .19. His math is exact; yours is flawed.
Hm IBM have the money, the people, and the factoris to make 3Ghz G5 ( 975?, 970FX). One ting that Stev will do is to say, we have now the fastest PC in the world. And I think that he will sell a 3Ghz powermac. BUT
1) It will be using wapo (like ailenware)
2) It will cost a lot like over 3,5k
3) Shiping inn September or later
4) There will be very few of them
Well that is my 50cents.
1) It will be using wapo (like ailenware)
2) It will cost a lot like over 3,5k
3) Shiping inn September or later
4) There will be very few of them
Well that is my 50cents.
Mercury said:
AHHH!!! Your math is so horrible, please do not try teach it.
Going from 2Ghz to 3Ghz is a 50% increase, while going from 3Ghz to 2Ghz is a 33.3% decrease.
Now as to what Apple may introduce, well I'd presuming 2.6 maybe 2.8 as the high end. I hope they go all duals but fear they will leave a gimpy single processer as the low end.
They most certainly will not do the smart thing and launch dual and single processor models for each speed grade and price the singles to bring in new users, that would just make to much logical sense and we know Apple (from their historical product placement and pricing) really has no interest in gaining a significant market share.
biaachmonkie said:AHHH!!! Your math is so horrible, please do not try teach it.
Going from 2Ghz to 3Ghz is a 50% increase, while going from 3Ghz to 2Ghz is a 33.3% decrease.
I do hope you were joking, and that the decrease was for someone else's benefit. Can't really tell sarcasm over the internet.
Seriously guys, this is what we're going to see:
Dual 2GHz,
dual 2.2 GHz,
dual 2.6 GHz
New displays.
New iMacs with a 1.5 Ghz G4 proc, and one "high end" model with a 1.6Ghz G5 proc. The casing for the new iMac may be a bit different as well.
PS: Blackmonkie's math is right, although I would have explained it a different way without using denominators.
Dual 2GHz,
dual 2.2 GHz,
dual 2.6 GHz
New displays.
New iMacs with a 1.5 Ghz G4 proc, and one "high end" model with a 1.6Ghz G5 proc. The casing for the new iMac may be a bit different as well.
PS: Blackmonkie's math is right, although I would have explained it a different way without using denominators.
new member
sorry for straying off the topic here but i have just joined this site and am wanting to start a thread and cant seem to work out how. could someone set me straight.
cheers
sorry for straying off the topic here but i have just joined this site and am wanting to start a thread and cant seem to work out how. could someone set me straight.
cheers
Where is NeatGekko when you really need him to sort all this out! We need some solid predictions!
G5 Macs discounted to $1299
They are down to $1295 for ADC members. I joined ADC a year or so ago at the lowest level (free). That was enough to get the discount.
Mine will be shipped on tuesday.
I checked and the university/education discount was dropped to $1399.
Not bad with the list still at $1799 at store.apple.com
MikeH said:
They are down to $1295 for ADC members. I joined ADC a year or so ago at the lowest level (free). That was enough to get the discount.
Mine will be shipped on tuesday.
I checked and the university/education discount was dropped to $1399.
Not bad with the list still at $1799 at store.apple.com
I guess it could be possible since the new G5's generate less heat at the same clock speeds. However, this may be offset by an increase in clock speeds and thereby an increase in heat generation. So I'll claim we will see the same case on the Power Mac's . . . but a new one for the iMac's.LaMerVipere said:...Does anyone think we will see an updated case design?
I really hope so! Maybe something with more curves but still all aluminum, smaller than the current tower (maybe similar in size to the Power Mac G4), and room for 2 optical drives.
It would be nice to have some rumours about the look of the Rev. B G5's too.
neonart said:Where is NeatGekko when you really need him to sort all this out! We need some solid predictions!
LOL - I completely forgot about him! (Well, I suppose not completely, that would be hard to do...) Yes, I wonder where he is right now and what his wild and crazy predictions are now, 5 months after his 3 GHz guarantees, and with one less hand - was it his left hand he said he would eat if he wasn't correct?
Hmm, and I supose "predictions" isn't the proper word either, since he was calling them more like "statements of fact"...No doubt he's still on the forums, just posting under another username - his credibility is now zero so there would be little sense to keep posting as NeatGekko... Ah, those were good times...