Clearing out G5s?

[allroy]

Just because there haven't been updates...

for the past year doesn't mean they won't hit 3GHZ. Steve never said there would be incremental updates throughout the year, he said there WILL BE 3GHZ G5's within a year. So you can't gauge progress based on something that might not have been planned.

If Apple was going to just modestly bump up the speed, it WOULD NOT be during WWDC, they would just do it, (Powerbook, eMac, iBook) an updated line is not a major event nor has S.J. ever showcased something at WWDC/Macworld that was a simple update. He knows what was said and would not risk public humiliation on the same stage introducing a 2.2GHZ G5 where he promised 3GHZ. NOtice how I did not say iMac, they will have G5's in them not 90nm but the current 130nm 1.6/1.8GHZ

Another thing is I think you will see 3GHZ shipping first, from a business sense it's stupid not to do it this way. You have people waiting for faster machines and offer them a less expensive one right away, most people will jump on it since they've been waiting and it's available immediately, this will take away from the bottom line. You offer the high end, so you sell them at a higher price point and probably a higher profit margin.

Apple was already been seeing yields in the 2.6GHZ range 2 months or so ago, there was no mention of top end.

 

[dizastor]

Perhaps there are even grander things in the works for WWDC. Earlier this year Steve said that this would be an "exciting" year for the Mac. Maybe we'll see a complete bottom to top revamping of the Mac. Maybe the iMac will replace the eMac. An entierly new system will replace the iMac at the mid-level point and 3GHz G5's will come out on top.

Yeah, with the length of the wait between updates I'm thinking they have been working on something major. Just a gut feeling.

Let's hope you're right.

 

[slooksterPSV]

Another thing is I think you will see 3GHZ shipping first, from a business sense it's stupid not to do it this way. You have people waiting for faster machines and offer them a less expensive one right away, most people will jump on it since they've been waiting and it's available immediately, this will take away from the bottom line. You offer the high end, so you sell them at a higher price point and probably a higher profit margin.

That is true, they could make more profits on the 3GHz PowerMac G5 then about a month later release the iMac G5. Its just that easy to see it, but still I could also see Apple releasing an iMac G5 1.6 and the PM G5 at the same time, let people decide, more power to them.

 

[fpnc]

Okay, it appears that I was wrong about the 1.6GHz Power Mac discount offer though ADC. This may be one of those special, one-time deals that apply to all Select and Premier members. Here is a quote from Apple's ADC hardware purchase program site:

"NEWS AND UPDATES:

Special Pricing on Power Mac G5 1.6GHz
ADC is pleased to offer special pricing on the Power Mac G5 1.6GHz to ADC Select and Premier members in the United States and Europe. Through June 26, ADC Select and Premier members can purchase up to five (5) Power Mac G5 1.6GHz systems through the ADC Hardware Purchase Program, without affecting annual hardware discount purchase limits.

ADC Online members in supported countries upgrading to Select or Premier in May or June can participate in this promotion, and will also get access to pre-release software, code-level technical support, discount programs, and all the other great benefits Select and Premier members enjoy. Apple reserves the right to end or to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time.

Please note: You may not add iPods to orders for the Power Mac G5 1.6GHz. [May 21 2004]"

Note in particular the comment about upgrading in May or June from ADC Online membership.

 

[neonart]

I am having some trouble following this problem. Wasn't apple producing a 450 MHz machine when the pIII 900 was in a majority of computers (100%) faster (I know just in numerical values) and they were stuck there for a long time as pIV's sky rocketed. Apple is now at 2GHz while the most common pIV out there is a 2.6GHz...

Yeah, but the fastest P4 is 3.4Ghz, and the most "common" Mac is certainly not a 2Ghz.

I'm not rooting for the other side or anything, but were not that close GHz-wise. While that doesn't matter (much) to folks like us, the 3Ghz are necessary to narrow the perceivable gap.

 

[dontmatter]

If you read from this- "updates must be coming at WWDC": DUH. that they were coming was as sure as anything in the mac world, and this is just another tidbit. We knew this, guys.

If you read this as "b/c they're only clearing out 1.6, it'll be 1.8, 2.0, 2.2" or if you're making claims either way about 3.0 Gigahertz :C'mon. You know you don't know this stuff. Maybe 1.6 sales are behind the others? Maybe 1.8 and 2.2 chips are going in an imac? Maybe steve will leap to 7.8 gigahertz?

Don't bother speculating

 

[dongmin]

just one question: does the samsung come with ADC? I'm not buying a DVI display as long as I can choose from ADC.. less desktop clutter because the display doesn't need its own power cord. though i agree with you that sometimes (very seldom) the clear plastic (which i have on my 17"er) is a bit annoying.

The last I checked the Samsung 24" was over $2400 at Amazon.com. The Apple 23" start at $2000. If you get it with a Power Mac, it's $1500. Yeah the Samsung might have some nicer specs, but is it worth an extra $900? Not for me. I'm betting that Apple is gonna do another round of price cuts on the displays. The 23" at $1500-1600 and 20" at $800-1000.

 

[dongmin]

If you read from this- "updates must be coming at WWDC": DUH. that they were coming was as sure as anything in the mac world, and this is just another tidbit. We knew this, guys.

If you read this as "b/c they're only clearing out 1.6, it'll be 1.8, 2.0, 2.2" or if you're making claims either way about 3.0 Gigahertz :C'mon. You know you don't know this stuff. Maybe 1.6 sales are behind the others? Maybe 1.8 and 2.2 chips are going in an imac? Maybe steve will leap to 7.8 gigahertz?

Don't bother speculating

Gotta go with dontmatter on this one. The 1.6 ghz have been a slow seller ever since when it was introduced. That model being the only one discounted could simply just mean that it's the only model with a sizable inventory still. I wouldn't use that to guess about the specs.

Apple will dish out whatever IBM can come through with. Apple knows that they've missed one update, and that's because IBM couldn't deliver enough of the 90 nm 970fx. Apple knows as well as anyone that when they miss updates, their sales slow down as people wait for the next big thing. HOPEFULLY, the recent statements by IBM saying that they've got a handle on the problem means that 90 nm chips will be rolling off the assembly line. Whether these 90 nms are 970fx at speeds up to 2.6 or 980s at speeds up to 3.0 is ANYBODY's wild guess.

PowerBook observers will remember that they had to wait 9 months before they got an incremental update last November. The long wait doesn't say anything about how big the update will be. For the millionth time, Apple is at the mercy of IBM and Freescale. Whatever they provide, Apple will deliver.

 

[reyesmac]

If Apple can make their low end Powermac have the same motherboards as the higher end ones, maybe they wouldn't have to discount them so much to get people to buy them. I wouldn't want to pay Apple to give me something they crippled on purpose so as to keep the real Powermacs (the top two models) at an over $2k starting price.

 

[eric67]

you are right

It doesn't correlate with the 975 rumors whatsoever. It does correlate with the assumption/rumors of updated G5 systems at WWDC but that is all. Nothing about low stock should lead anyone to assume we will see 975's.

I was just trying to make a link between a rumor (PPC975) and a fact (low stocks for PMG5).
now this means we potentially can expect a rev for PMG5 at the WWDC, and potentially it could be a PPC975-based PMG5...that's what I mean, and what I would like to see happening

 

[eric67]

remind me

Ha ha ha, all this blind faith we will see 3GHz announced in a month. No wonder so many are let down when these dates come and reality sets in.

THINK ABOUT IT ... we don't even have 2.2GHz G5, which should have come out at least in January. Here it is end of May, over 9 months since the dual 2.0 G5 has been shipping, and we STILL have dual 2.0GHz as the high end. Yet many of you believe dual 3.0 in a month ... ha! I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell ya!

My bets would be the best we will see is dual 2.0/2.2/2.4, because history has shown when Apple can't speed bump its machines, they go to duals just to make the consumer feel like they are getting something. Those of you who believe 3.0GHz is for the next round are gonna be mighty disappointed. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw dual 1.8/2.0/2.2 for the next bump. After all, Apple isn't even discounting the dual 1.8, which tells you something. I prefer to look at Apple's history. It really does show how they do business in the present.

Please remind me to contact you after the WWDC...just to see what will be your position at that time...

 

[Crikey]

If they're only clearing out the 1.6 machines then doesn't
1.8, 2 and 2.2 look more realistic?

i_b_joshua

Yes. I expect to see either the above, or a 2.0/2.2/2.4 line, or maybe a single 2.0/dual 2.0/dual 2.2 line. I'm wondering how Apple will fit a dual-G5 at any speed into the $1800ish price slot they like to have at the low end. Even if they have to redesign the 1.6GHz logic board or design a new single-CPU board, I suspect the low-end machine will stay single-CPU.

Of course, I'd be as happy as anyone to be wrong about this. If July dawned with today's dual-2.0GHz around $1800, I'd be super-tempted to buy one.

Waiting for WWDC . . .


Crikey

 

[furrina]

Price drops? PM vs. iMac

I just bought a pb 15" and am waiting til after the conference to purchase a PM G5 -- low end is fine but will definitely get a dual. Right now the 1.8 dp PM is perfect, but I'm hoping for a price drop if they come out with faster ones.

a couple of questions:
Do you guys think there will be any price drops in the dual processor 1.8 or 2 PMs if the come out with faster speeds?

Will they be coming out with some new architecture or form factor for the PM g5s that will be worth the higher price and signify a precedent for future hardware?

Also, pardon my plain old layman question, but what would be the major differences between the tower PM and the iMac (with the exception of the built in screen) if they put the G5 in the iMac as expected? Expandability is not the hugest issue, I've got plenty of external hard drives, etc.
I do some video editing and want a really fast desktop machine, but plan to buy an external cinema display monitor so won't need the built in screen.

 

[Crikey]

here is my take on it. They are clearing out supplies for WWDC. There will be kind of update, but noone is going to be able to know what it is. Everyone knew the G5 was coming last year, but noone knew what it was until WWDC. Displays are definately coming, and i believe G5 iMacs are as well. Here is what i would bet on being there.

PowerMac G5
Dual 2.0Ghz $1799
Dual 2.6 Ghz $2499
Dual 3.0Ghz $2999

Steve would love to have 3.0GHz Power Macs to announce at WWDC, but if the chip yields aren't there, neither will the systems be. It was a mistake to make that statement last year, and as I recall even the way he phrased it was a little uncertain/wiggle-room-ish. I don't really understand the "Daddy, you PROMISED!" petulance from some posters here (not from the poster I'm quoting, but others). What's possible is possible; what isn't, won't happen.

I think if there is a 3GHz announcement, it will be of systems to ship in the fall.

I also think it goes without saying that most people who post here, including myself, are just guessing. There are probably People In The Know at Apple who read this site and laugh.

iMac G5
15" 1.6Ghz $1299
17" 1.8Ghz $1799
20" 1.8Ghz $2099

I recall hearing about "form factor changes in the iMac line" mentioned by senior Apple execs. I'm not so sure that the G5 iMac will look like a simple line refresh as the above list suggests. Will the new iMacs have built-in LCDs? I'm in favor of a "headless" iMac, but Apple does love that all-in-one concept.

If they do stick with a line-up like they have now, and move them all to the G5, the quoted post is a very realistic scenario.

I could see sort of a split in the iMac line, with some 1.33+GHz G4s and maybe a 1.6GHz iMac at the top end. It will be interesting to see what Apple manages to conjure up.

Displays
17"
20"
23"
30"

This is a very plausible line-up, in accord with the rumors I've read here.

 

[nuckinfutz]

LOL 2.2Ghz maximum. I hope you guys bet like this in Vegas. Geez talk about safe.

Trust me we don't see anything lower than 2.4. Hell AMD has the Opteron coming this fall in a 2.4 Ghz version and surely you don't think AMD is the superior to IBM do you?

Keep in mind people. IBM never expected the 970 to go much above 2.5Ghz. Therefore when we mention 2.6 or above we're basically talking a new processor. Hence the 975 threads

 

[MacsRgr8]

Yep.

No chickening here..... Dual 3 GHz, I say
Dunno about PCI-Extreme grfx just yet. Hell, even a Dual 2.0 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 Pro doesn't stretch the limits of a AGP 4x bus.

Compatiblity! Radeon X800, nVidia 6800 coming??? (either AGP 8x or PCI-Extreme)

BTW, dear nuckinfutz... I nominate you to the funniest name here on MacRumors, although I'm not sotallytober

 

[mattmack]

Yeah, but the fastest P4 is 3.4Ghz, and the most "common" Mac is certainly not a 2Ghz.

I'm not rooting for the other side or anything, but were not that close GHz-wise. While that doesn't matter (much) to folks like us, the 3Ghz are necessary to narrow the perceivable gap.

I see your point, but 2 Ghz compared to 3GHz is still a lot closer than 500MHz to 1.2 GHz

 

[Windowlicker]

The last I checked the Samsung 24" was over $2400 at Amazon.com. The Apple 23" start at $2000. If you get it with a Power Mac, it's $1500. Yeah the Samsung might have some nicer specs, but is it worth an extra $900? Not for me. I'm betting that Apple is gonna do another round of price cuts on the displays. The 23" at $1500-1600 and 20" at $800-1000.

i can't even dream of getting a 20" SD for $800 (…1000€ tax incl.) )) i've been thinking what my next setup will be like, and i think this lovely 17"er is gonna get a big brotha. a 12" PB with a 20" SD at home.. 12" on the road, 32" (12"+20") on the desk )

 

[nuckinfutz]

No chickening here..... Dual 3 GHz, I say
Dunno about PCI-Extreme grfx just yet. Hell, even a Dual 2.0 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 Pro doesn't stretch the limits of a AGP 4x bus

Damn I wish I was sotallytober

You know I thought that PCIe was kind of pointless to until I watched a video on IDF and PCIe. Here's what I like

Serial- easier to implement on the Motherboard.

Fast- PCIe is duplex so now it maxes at 8GBps total(4GBps upstrm/dwnstrm)
Efficient- Progammes can program data to stay off the FSB or snoop the bus and still maintain control of data. AGP doesn't handle this well

Relaxed Ordering allows Read Request to jump ahead of posted writes as long as the posted write does not contain data that the read request needs. There goes one bottleneck.

Traffic Channels and Virtual Channels- Great organization for Isochronous data. This is akin to Firewire and it's ability to prioritize streams of data so that mission critical data gets guaranteed bandwidth.

Upstream- AGP's upstream bandwidth is 1x boo hiss. PCIe is duplex so that's a 15x improvement on upstream.

Wanna see cool new PCI cards coming out in the future with HD featues and other stuff. PCIe is the key. The sooner Apple gets there the better.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Damn I wish I was sotallytober

You know I thought that PCIe was kind of pointless to until I watched a video on IDF and PCIe. Here's what I like

Serial- easier to implement on the Motherboard.

Fast- PCIe is duplex so now it maxes at 8GBps total(4GBps upstrm/dwnstrm)
Efficient- Progammes can program data to stay off the FSB or snoop the bus and still maintain control of data. AGP doesn't handle this well

Relaxed Ordering allows Read Request to jump ahead of posted writes as long as the posted write does not contain data that the read request needs. There goes one bottleneck.

Traffic Channels and Virtual Channels- Great organization for Isochronous data. This is akin to Firewire and it's ability to prioritize streams of data so that mission critical data gets guaranteed bandwidth.

Upstream- AGP's upstream bandwidth is 1x boo hiss. PCIe is duplex so that's a 15x improvement on upstream.

Wanna see cool new PCI cards coming out in the future with HD featues and other stuff. PCIe is the key. The sooner Apple gets there the better.

Probably have a heakingfreadache tomorrow morning....

But, seems AGP could be limiting its own bandwidth... Kinda like USB2 vs FireWire etc.
Sounds convincing. I just hope Apple agrees with both grfx card manufacturers wich way will be best. Being able to sell an X800 or 6800 with a PowerMac G5 is good marketing. I hope PCI-Extreme is the way!

 

[Black Badger]

Slow to pick up on this

Blimey, slow to pick up on this..

See this post 24/05

Apple are now letting ADC premier & select members to purchase up to 5 1.6 G5s through the ADC Hardware Discount Program without affecting their anual discount limits.

Looks like they are trying to dump a load of the 1.6s

 

[Wash!!]

For all of you obseces with the Ghz gap

SGI and other Unix base workstations are running at 500MHz to 800Mhz..
see:http://www.sgi.com/workstations/

Look at the type of applications are design for the G5 is a 64 bit chip, IBM nor Apple or any other developer has even start pushing their software to take advantage of the processing power of the chips..

Get over it... I'll just sit and wait to see what Apple comes up with...

 

[jaw04005]

As for the ADC discounts on the 1.6GHz G5s:



That's incorrect. When you purchase your initial ADC Select membership you don't earn any hardware discounts. For Select memberships you only get the discounts after you renew your membership for a second year. Thus, the total outlay for Select members is at least $1000 (i.e. two years at $500 each). To get the discount in the first year you need to be a premier member at a cost of $3500 (for membership).

This fact is pretty much hidden in the small print of the ADC Select membership. The headlines state that Select members are eligible for hardware discounts, it's only after you dig fairly deeply into the details that you find that Select members only get the discounts after they renew for a second year.

UPDATE, okay forget what I said here. The offer for the 1.6GHz Power Macs appears to be a special deal. You apparently don't need any ADC hardware discount assets to qualify for this offer.

That is not true any longer. After purchasing a Select membership, Apple automatically issues an asset for a hardware purchase discount. You do NOT have to be in your second year.

 

[FuzzyBallz]

As much as I like my 20" Cinema Display, I like my Samsung 191T just a bit more. Man, I could've bought a pair of 191Ts and switch both of them to portrait mode. Well, time to sell the 191T and get the new 193P. Now that's a fine ass looking LCD.

And what does ADC discount on the G5 have anything to do w/ the avg. consumer? They're not getting the discount. And how many ADC members are there anyway? Not enough to affect the G5 supply.

 

[centauratlas]

My prediction is 2.4 and 2.6 with 3.0 "shipping by end of summer." This way, the 2.4 and 2.6 are not bad upgrades - they are essentially what should have been announced back in Feb, Steve doesn't have to eat his words from last Sept, and they get to update the machines.

Then in Sept they drop the 2.2.

If Apple is 'only' going to 2.2 or 2.4 without more, I doubt they'd intro them at WWDC - they'd do it quietly.

If anything is announce at WWDC, it needs to have some 'wow' factor at least in Steve's mind. A speed bump to 2.2 and 2.4 wouldn't do it. 2.6 would with 3.0 by end of summer. Anything else will remind people what he said in June 2003 and Sept 2003 and he doesn't want that because it would take attention away from things like 10.4

There were some really nice points before. The guy writing about the iMacs saying they'd be 200mhz below the top end PM in particular - I think the key will be that they'd be single, the PMs will be dual.

(There is a nice article in this month's Wired about Steve and Pixar, by the way).